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GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Chillyrabbit posted:

Quick question do the other people (ie non main character types) get smarter in the series instead of being blindly and somehow criminally retarded? I watched up to episode 16 but it seems every one-off or somewhat important character is so retarded it breaks my immersion.

EDIT: Like trying to attack iserlohn after losing it; the loving fort that annihilated 6 or 7 alliance fleets. The food riots on the occupied planets, like seriously people need food and looting = riots

Antagonists who aren't part of the main cast don't stop being offensively stupid until episode 30 or so. They don't entirely disappear after that, but the 'imbecile of the week' episodes more or less stop.

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Pornographic Memory
Dec 17, 2008


Zero_Tactility posted:

I loving love Admiral Trung Yu-Chang. "Sorry I'm late for the war council. Don't mind me, I'll just be eating this bag full of sandwiches."

He was simply being prepared for a scenario where he was told not to eat if he didn't bring enough for everybody. Sadly nobody called him on it, but it clearly speaks well of his capability as an officer to foresee such eventualities and be ready.

It was pretty great when he told Yang's staff officers to defect, with 5,000 or so ships, to Yang's renegade fleet and presented them with a contract formally turning over their ownership from the FPA. They're just sitting down across the table from him going "what the gently caress" before Yu-Chang just sighs and tells them the contract is supposed to be a joke.

Iserlohn
Nov 3, 2011

What the hell are those bastards in the government thinking?

Lipstick Apathy

Chillyrabbit posted:

Quick question do the other people (ie non main character types) get smarter in the series instead of being blindly and somehow criminally retarded? I watched up to episode 16 but it seems every one-off or somewhat important character is so retarded it breaks my immersion.

EDIT: Like trying to attack iserlohn after losing it; the loving fort that annihilated 6 or 7 alliance fleets. The food riots on the occupied planets, like seriously people need food and looting = riots

This was posted a couple pages ago, but it is incredibly apt:

iyaayas01 posted:

Paraphrasing Field Marshal Moltke, there are four kinds of officers: smart and lazy, smart and energetic, dumb and lazy, and dumb and energetic. Smart and lazy officers should be made generals, as their combination of intelligence and natural laziness allows them to discover the easiest and simplest solution to a problem. Smart and energetic officers should be made staff officers for the smart and lazy generals, as they have the drive and intelligence to put together all the products that the smart and lazy generals need to devise the easiest solution to a problem. Dumb and lazy officers are harmless, they are idiots but they don't do anything so they can be ignored. Dumb and energetic officers are a cancer on an organization and must be eliminated at all costs because they do nothing but create irrelevant work for everyone.

Also, everyone is following norms associated with their own cultural perspectives. The Goldenbaum Dynasty instilled a mindset of overwhelming pride and natural superiority. You'll learn a lot more about it later, but failure results in an overwhelming disgrace. It's either come back home a winner or don't come back at all. On the other hand, the FPA are pretty idealistic until they can't put their money where their mouth is. Andrew Fork is pretty much the embodiment of the FPA's general line of thought. Everyone is spurred by loyalty to their government and extreme nationalistic sentiments; it motivates people to do crazy things "for their country."

There's also the norms of war. A lot of the early battles remind me of the British during colonial times. They didn't believe in strategy. They just lined up rows upon rows of riflemen that engaged the enemy's rows of riflemen. Whoever had the most troops won. During the Revolutionary War, they were ultimately defeated by guerrilla warfare and actual tactics. In the series, everyone who lives to see the later years of the war will eventually be forced to develop their own style and approaches to battle.

As for the last example, The FPA needed that food immediately. The troops were hungry, and the officers were frightened by the possibility of losing. When the higher-ups panicked, it rattled all of the soldiers to follow suit. The people on the liberated planets were about to lose everything they had, twice, and the people who kindly supported them were suddenly their enemies. Combine that with mob mentality and there was no way they could act rationally.

Madurai
Jun 26, 2012



Iserlohn posted:


There's also the norms of war. A lot of the early battles remind me of the British during colonial times. They didn't believe in strategy. They just lined up rows upon rows of riflemen that engaged the enemy's rows of riflemen. Whoever had the most troops won. During the Revolutionary War, they were ultimately defeated by guerrilla warfare and actual tactics.

Not to be That Guy, but none of that is true.

Iserlohn
Nov 3, 2011

What the hell are those bastards in the government thinking?

Lipstick Apathy

I am no historian, and neither was my highschool history teacher

I worded it bluntly because of the morning, but I still stand by my claim of there being unwritten rules in conducting battles, and young upstarts like Yang and Reinhardt broke them.

VictualSquid
Feb 29, 2012

Gently enveloping the target with indiscriminate love.


I would rather say that the generals of the nations are exaggeratedly incompetent in order to show the different kinds of nepotism and corruption in their nations.
All the sides have their own unique flavor of incompetence that reflects the mindset of their society.

Raku
Nov 7, 2012

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.

Roll Tide

Madurai posted:

Not to be That Guy, but none of that is true.

Yeah, if you want to see how hosed we'd have been without French help, read up on Cornwallis's adventures in India. Tactics were alive and well, it was mostly factors off the battlefield that won the Revolutionary War.

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007




So, the first chapter of The Heroic Legend of Arslan came out a while ago (and I just learned about it). That's, Fullmetal Alchemist's mangaka (Arakawa Hiromu) adapting another work of Tanaka Yoshiki (you know, author of LoGH), for those who didn't know.

Looks from the intro chapter that it'll be somewhat thoughtful about issues and societies like LoGH is, though in a faux-Persian context, rather than space-America vs. space-Prussia. Appropriately, it kind of goes on more about religion and slavery and wealth distribution, than democracy vs. autocracy like LoGH. And it does so in a... well, I wouldn't say it was full of nuance (they were establishing themes pretty heavily in the first chapter), but it's way better than you'd expect from manga usually.

Definitely worth a look. (I wish it had a thread... maybe in a few chapters.)

musouka
Apr 24, 2009


Eiba posted:

And it does so in a... well, I wouldn't say it was full of nuance (they were establishing themes pretty heavily in the first chapter), but it's way better than you'd expect from manga usually.

That's not Tanaka's fault. The first chapter is entirely new content. (And, as an Arslan Senki fan since forever--own the books twice over, own the movies/OAVs twice over--slightly worrisome new content as far as the characterization goes.)

Superstring
Jul 22, 2007

I thought I was going insane for a second.



Huh. I thought her farm manga was her current project.

psyer
Mar 26, 2013


Superstring posted:

Huh. I thought her farm manga was her current project.

She has 2 ongoing projects.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!

I buy Steam inventories, add me if interested!




Clever Betty

She's the lady who didn't take a break during FMA's run while she was pregnant, mind you.

Placid Marmot
Apr 28, 2013


Episode 100 spoiler

oberstein.jpg

IShallRiseAgain
Sep 12, 2008

Well ain't that precious?



Placid Marmot posted:

Episode 100 spoiler

oberstein.jpg

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Oberstein's character. Oberstein is actually really good at interacting with people and getting them to do what he wants them to do. Oberstein doesn't want to be liked and sees himself as a necessary evil. Maintaining friendships would just hinder him from completing his objectives.

Tangents
Aug 23, 2008



It's been years, what was the original text? I remember him interrupting but not what it was about in the slightest.

jonjonaug
Mar 26, 2010

by Lowtax


Gils posted:

It's been years, what was the original text? I remember him interrupting but not what it was about in the slightest.

Telling Reinhard about riots on Heinessen.

Placid Marmot
Apr 28, 2013


IShallRiseAgain posted:

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Oberstein's character. Oberstein is actually really good at interacting with people and getting them to do what he wants them to do. Oberstein doesn't want to be liked and sees himself as a necessary evil. Maintaining friendships would just hinder him from completing his objectives.

He's by far my favourite character from LOGH, because of his complexity, but there's no question that in that particular scene what he did was ultra-autistic and it was utterly unnecessary to interrupt the ceremony like that. There was no practical reason not to delay passing on the information for a couple of minutes (and he had completely withheld other important information before this event), interrupting the ceremony was not part of one of his schemes, and there was no value to making a scene or drawing attention to himself, so he must have done it out of a lack of social awareness.

DamnGlitch
Sep 2, 2004



IShallRiseAgain posted:

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Oberstein's character. Oberstein is actually really good at interacting with people and getting them to do what he wants them to do. Oberstein doesn't want to be liked and sees himself as a necessary evil. Maintaining friendships would just hinder him from completing his objectives.

It's A Joke

jonjonaug
Mar 26, 2010

by Lowtax


Placid Marmot posted:

He's by far my favourite character from LOGH, because of his complexity, but there's no question that in that particular scene what he did was ultra-autistic and it was utterly unnecessary to interrupt the ceremony like that. There was no practical reason not to delay passing on the information for a couple of minutes (and he had completely withheld other important information before this event), interrupting the ceremony was not part of one of his schemes, and there was no value to making a scene or drawing attention to himself, so he must have done it out of a lack of social awareness.

Usually whenever Oberstein withholds information from Reinhard or the other Admirals, he has some kind of reason for that. The only thing delaying the announcement of the riots would accomplish is giving Reinhard and the other Admirals some minutes to hours less time to think about what to do to deal with them.

Kegslayer
Jul 23, 2007


Placid Marmot posted:

He's by far my favourite character from LOGH, because of his complexity, but there's no question that in that particular scene what he did was ultra-autistic and it was utterly unnecessary to interrupt the ceremony like that. There was no practical reason not to delay passing on the information for a couple of minutes (and he had completely withheld other important information before this event), interrupting the ceremony was not part of one of his schemes, and there was no value to making a scene or drawing attention to himself, so he must have done it out of a lack of social awareness.

Oberstein is suppose to be a master at understanding people and he knew and played his role perfectly.

He's hardly autistic or socially aware but he does go out of his way to make the other generals hate him so that he can bear the responsibility for all the lovely things the Empire has to do to win. The riot was a serious issue that they had to deal with and he has no qualms about upsetting other people despite the situation so why wait to bring it up?

Placid Marmot
Apr 28, 2013


It's the "no qualms about upsetting other people" which was the problem in this scene. Heinessen was literally halfway across the inhabited part of the galaxy from the wedding and takes weeks to travel to, and, depending how broken the continuity is on the episode in question, takes hours, days or weeks to communicate with; not delaying his message until Reinhart gets in his limo a couple of minutes later is the mark of autism and will have no effect on the outcome of the riots which are already being dealt with by troops and police on Heinessen.

Pewdiepie
Oct 31, 2010
Dumb piece of shit who melts down at the very concept of charity. If you don't have me on ignore, you FUCKED UP.


This show is epic.

eXXon
Aug 19, 2002
<img src="https://fi.somethingawful.com/customtitles/title-exxon.png"><br>




It's funny how the FPA somehow look even more smug than the Empire, what with their smirky grins and half-shaved faces. Sieg Kaiser Reinhard, I tell you.

UberJumper
May 20, 2007
woop

Half way through the show. Did they redo certain scenes at some point? The show seems to constantly switch between extremely clear and crisp visuals that look newer, to older style more murky visuals.



*EDIT* Also what happened to Merkatz? (the Imperial fleet guy who defected to Yang, after Lohengram took over?) I am on episode 49, and he just kind of disappeared awhile ago. I don't want to google it because the wiki has already spoiled some stuff for me

UberJumper fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Aug 5, 2013

Chillyrabbit
Oct 24, 2012

The only sword wielding rabbit on the internet




Ultra Carp

UberJumper posted:


*EDIT* Also what happened to Merkatz? (the Imperial fleet guy who defected to Yang, after Lohengram took over?) I am on episode 49, and he just kind of disappeared awhile ago. I don't want to google it because the wiki has already spoiled some stuff for me


Carefully spoilering just in case

He is still around and plays several important roles later in the series

Miles Vorkosigan
Mar 21, 2007

The stuff that dreams are made of.


UberJumper posted:

Half way through the show. Did they redo certain scenes at some point? The show seems to constantly switch between extremely clear and crisp visuals that look newer, to older style more murky visuals.



Yeah, they redid a lot of the scenes for the DVD version (I'm not sure, but I think the original film must have been damaged or something. The VHS rip had a lot of blurry, oversaturated frames). The redone scene kind of taper off toward the end though, you won't be seeing nearly as many in the second half of the show as you did in the first.

UberJumper
May 20, 2007
woop

Why did episode 51 suddenly turn up the blood and gore? It feels so random and out of place



*EDIT* Why is Merkatz standing with Prince Lohengram at the end of episode 51?

UberJumper fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Aug 6, 2013

Under 15
Jan 6, 2005

Mr. Helsbecter will you please stop shooting I am on the phone



UberJumper posted:

Why did episode 51 suddenly turn up the blood and gore? It feels so random and out of place



*EDIT* Why is Merkatz standing with Prince Lohengram at the end of episode 51?

I know there's a lot of guest directors for episodes the show, although I'm not sure if that's the case for season 2. It's whatever they want to emphasize. In season 3 some episodes use a lot of star wars sound effects.

VictualSquid
Feb 29, 2012

Gently enveloping the target with indiscriminate love.


UberJumper posted:

Why did episode 51 suddenly turn up the blood and gore? It feels so random and out of place



*EDIT* Why is Merkatz standing with Prince Lohengram at the end of episode 51?
Isn't that only one of his lookalikes, there are several.
Yup that extra violence also got pretty distracting for me.

UberJumper
May 20, 2007
woop

tonberrytoby posted:

Isn't that only one of his lookalikes, there are several.
Yup that extra violence also got pretty distracting for me.

I rewatched it, and he has a slightly different haircut, and mustache than Merkatz. But his hair color, and uniform are identical to Merkatz.

Honestly one of the most confusing part of the show is trying to keep track of fleets. After episode 50, i was very confused since i swear roughly 3 minutes earlier in the show, all Lohengrams admirals were with him, forming the walls.

But now apparently none of them were?

Gay Abortions
Dec 12, 2007



UberJumper posted:

I rewatched it, and he has a slightly different haircut, and mustache than Merkatz. But his hair color, and uniform are identical to Merkatz.

Honestly one of the most confusing part of the show is trying to keep track of fleets. After episode 50, i was very confused since i swear roughly 3 minutes earlier in the show, all Lohengrams admirals were with him, forming the walls.

But now apparently none of them were?

Lower ranking fleet officials were with Reinhard forming the shifting wall defenses of the holding action, his higher-ranking commanders each off with their own fleets rushing for different objectives (and then turning back to help the Kaiser).

There's some variation in the way the different military forces are organized that causes some confusion. In the Empire / Reich, fleets are sorted based on their commanders names, are roughly all the same size, and all have very distinct flavors that carry down from the commanders to individual ships under their command (and there are thousands of ships in each fleet). The FPA, meanwhile, numbers their fleets, and the commander of each appears to have less effect on the appearance, tactics, and disposition of the various commanders, ships, and crew under their charge. Additionally, they're more likely to cobble together irregular fleets from whoever happens to be on hand, and the size of a given fleet varies wildly based on how many ships are available. The FPA also seems to delegate sections of military command in more specialized fashions, having a commander handle logistics, another focused primarily on intelligence, and another dedicated to ground assaults, while the Reich seems content to entrust ship and fleet commanders with all of those duties for their own forces.

I'm at episode 70 and I'm already looking forward to a second watching so I can really dig at the histories and cultures of the different nations and planets, and take a closer look at the particular tactical and strategic maneuvers different commanders employ. And also maybe find a game that simulates ship combat in a similar way to this series because nothing else seems to get the scale quite right, or make good use of three-dimensional space in a way that's manageable, at least as far as I've found.

CrackedWindow
May 25, 2013


Thinking of watching this. How many episodes are subbed and is the cast introduced gradually or overwhelmingly all at once?

Khagan
Aug 8, 2012

Words cannot describe just how terrible Vietnamese are.

CrackedWindow posted:

Thinking of watching this. How many episodes are subbed and is the cast introduced gradually or overwhelmingly all at once?

Its all subbed.

I'd say gradual bursts during the two dozen, after that minor characters pop up every now and then.

VictualSquid
Feb 29, 2012

Gently enveloping the target with indiscriminate love.


CrackedWindow posted:

Thinking of watching this. How many episodes are subbed and is the cast introduced gradually or overwhelmingly all at once?
Everything is subbed. Since about 2 years ago there is even a good sub.
The cast is introduced in small waves. But the show does play very interesting games with the border between important characters and unimportant one shot guys. They aren't explicitly distinguished.

CrackedWindow
May 25, 2013


How does the manga compare?

DamnGlitch
Sep 2, 2004



I feel like generic questions from the recommendation thread have gained sentience and are replicating.

Just watch the show, man.

(Is there even a manga..? Like a full one?)

Cross-Section
Mar 18, 2009



I thought they were based off, like, actual novels?

DamnGlitch
Sep 2, 2004



Yeah, it is. If there's a manga, the show isn't adapted from that

Infected
Oct 17, 2012

Salt Incarnate




There is a manga adaptation, but I can't really say anything about it's quality or content. Though I think that it's from the same person that was responsible for the Golden Wings movie. Which is also why it looks so different, same art style between those two.

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Takes No Damage
Nov 20, 2004

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.




Grimey Drawer

CrackedWindow posted:

Thinking of watching this. How many episodes are subbed and is the cast introduced gradually or overwhelmingly all at once?

Yea the first handful of episodes are a little names-character heavy since everyone is being introduced. Eventually the major players will get enough screen time and become easily recognizable, and anyone else of note will continue to get little name/title popups in the subs when they show up after a long absence. If you're grabbing subs I recommend getting the ones by Central Anime. They've been subbing this show for like 10 years at this point and seem to have gotten the style/tone of the characters down to a science at this point. Also don't watch episodes 1 and 2, replace them with the movie Overture to a New War as it is much better paced and provides a smoother introduction to the show in general.

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