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So, I had my heart set on a G10 or G20 Panasonic plasma...then I did some reading up on phosphor trails and now I'm all back to square one on getting a new TV  .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXtVU_ZQ660&feature=player_embedded I plan on doing mostly gaming with my TV, so while I'm sure movies will look amazing, I'm going to be pissed to notice motion trails while playing Halo or whatever else. Anybody have an opinion on this? Makes me want to get this 52" Samsung LN52A650 LCD instead: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=Samsung+LN52A650&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&hl=en&cid=12426696722047279100&sa=title#p Which, it's an older model TV, from 2008...should I be worried about buying a new TV from 2008? The reviews are great on that model. Granted, the red lining is weird.
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Mar 30, 2010 11:14
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What makes you think that LCD will somehow have better motion resolution than a Plasma? Phosphor trailing is nothing compared to the blurring you're going to notice while gaming on a LCD, especially on a *VA Samsung, which will probably have much worse input lag than any Plasma on top of that... I don't play FPS games on console but I've been playming Wipeout HD on my 50G20 and the motion is smooth, almost CRT-like, not the blurry mess I saw on my previous LCD. I haven't seen any Phosphor trailing at all, actually, not while watching movies/tv and not while gaming. You're pretty much taking a ridiculous step downin PQ based on a youtube video of an old 720p Plasma from 2008, which would have also ben one of Panasonic's lowest-end models at the time. Priam fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Mar 30, 2010 |
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Mar 30, 2010 12:08
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I've been playing a bunch of GoW 3 on my G25, it's been fine. I'm not a huge image quality snob or anything, but the motion is very fluid. If there are trails, i've never noticed them while playing.
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Mar 30, 2010 12:32
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Priam posted:You're pretty much taking a ridiculous step downin PQ based on a youtube video of an old 720p Plasma from 2008, which would have also ben one of Panasonic's lowest-end models at the time. The current crop of TVs aren't any different. Videos do tend to exaggerate the issue quite a bit, however. Phosphor trails on plasma TVs are similar to the rainbow effect on DLP TVs in that most people don't see them. However for the people that do see them they are very, very annoying.
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Mar 30, 2010 14:41
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The_Franz posted:The current crop of TVs aren't any different. Videos do tend to exaggerate the issue quite a bit, however. With my G20 I sat right up in front of the screen with X3:TC spinning as fast as it would allow and did not see this at all. I will try to shoot a video like that youtube video but using an xbox. I am unsure how the "breaking in" of a set impacts this, but it is not broken in yet. paradigmm fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Mar 30, 2010 |
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Mar 30, 2010 16:17
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My local costco had the last Samsung 58b540 plasma in stock on sale for $1250. It's new in a sealed box, but the last one in stock. I assume they're not getting more of that model since a few new ones have popped up in store. I'm wondering if I should drive straight over there and get that model at that price. I was planning on upgrading to a 54-55" tv. I have a rear projection crt hdtv now that i use for movie watching and gaming (mostly gaming). I want a new gaming tv and was planning on going with an lcd at first. The more I read the more it seems that plasma is probably the better way to go, and it seems like the G20 sets are getting a lot of praise right now. Any thoughts on the quality of the 58b540? I understand that some of the sets have buzzing issues, but $1250 seems like a pretty low price for a 58" tv.
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Mar 30, 2010 19:12
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Just found a new in box, Pioneer Kuro Elite Signature PRO-101FD from a known/recognized store for $3400 shipped. I am the opposite of impulsive when it comes to spending money. However, given that this thing is the alpha dog of TVs, any reason why I shouldn't pull the trigger, like 5 minutes ago?
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Mar 30, 2010 21:49
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I'm wanting to get a 46" 1080p TV and right now I'm looking at the Samsung LN46C630 46" 1080p 120Hz LCD for $939. Should I be looking at something else?
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Mar 31, 2010 02:34
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shelter posted:I'm wanting to get a 46" 1080p TV and right now I'm looking at the Samsung LN46C630 46" 1080p 120Hz LCD for $939. I'm looking at that Samsung you listed and the LG 47LH40, which is now $899 at Sears. I'd also like some feedback if there's anything better out there 
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Mar 31, 2010 05:56
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Uziel posted:Just found a new in box, Pioneer Kuro Elite Signature PRO-101FD from a known/recognized store for $3400 shipped. I am the opposite of impulsive when it comes to spending money. Im pretty sure thats worse than the 111FD which was going for $3000 at bestbuy. 50" is actually small in my opinion but if youre sitting less than 9 feet away then go for it... offer between $2000-$2500 though and no more.
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Mar 31, 2010 07:03
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Omegaslast posted:Im pretty sure thats worse than the 111FD which was going for $3000 at bestbuy. 50" is actually small in my opinion but if youre sitting less than 9 feet away then go for it... offer between $2000-$2500 though and no more. Another possible option is a semi-local Home Theater installer has a used display 5020 for $1999.
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Mar 31, 2010 11:42
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paradigmm posted:With my G20 I sat right up in front of the screen with X3:TC spinning as fast as it would allow and did not see this at all. I will try to shoot a video like that youtube video but using an xbox. I am unsure how the "breaking in" of a set impacts this, but it is not broken in yet. I noticed a tiny amount of phosphor trailing with my G20 when I got it and I was playing a fast moving game (like driving a car at top speed in GTA4 I could see it in the buildings passing by), but even that goes away with time. Now I can't really see it even if I try (I got less than 100 hours on this set).
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Mar 31, 2010 11:47
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Uziel posted:The 111FD is a TV, the 101FD is a monitor (no speakers or sound). Have you seen the 111FD at Best Buy recently? Like, can they check inventory for these and ship me one if any of their stores have it? I'm not anywhere near a Magnolia store unfortunately.
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Mar 31, 2010 16:48
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dexter6 posted:Don't monitors typically not include tuners as well?
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Mar 31, 2010 16:54
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Metanaut posted:I noticed a tiny amount of phosphor trailing with my G20 when I got it and I was playing a fast moving game (like driving a car at top speed in GTA4 I could see it in the buildings passing by), but even that goes away with time. Now I can't really see it even if I try (I got less than 100 hours on this set). Does it get better over time? I bought my G10 and it was a floor model, with over 2000 hours use, and the trails existed.
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Mar 31, 2010 17:52
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Schmerm posted:Does it get better over time? I bought my G10 and it was a floor model, with over 2000 hours use, and the trails existed. No, it's a side-effect of how plasmas work. More or less usage won't change it. EDIT: Well, in theory when the plasma cells get older they become less bright, which should reduce it some. However, most plasma sets compensate for this degradation by putting more voltage through them, which tends to put them right back where they were before. The best thing you can do is lower the contrast on the set - assuming you've got it in blown-out superbright mode like most users prefer. Crackbone fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Mar 31, 2010 |
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Mar 31, 2010 17:54
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gently caress, I was all set to buy a plasma because of the poor motion resolution with LCD's but now this trails issue has me rethinking it.
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Mar 31, 2010 17:59
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dy. posted:gently caress, I was all set to buy a plasma because of the poor motion resolution with LCD's but now this trails issue has me rethinking it. The problems of all sets are overblown - poor motion resolution on LCDs is overblown, so is plasma phosphor trails. Don't fall into the avs trap of looking for poo poo that's wrong with a TV, because you will find something.
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Mar 31, 2010 18:01
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Crackbone posted:The problems of all sets are overblown - poor motion resolution on LCDs is overblown, so is plasma phosphor trails. Don't fall into the avs trap of looking for poo poo that's wrong with a TV, because you will find something.
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Mar 31, 2010 19:00
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dy. posted:I have a pretty decent 120hz LCD now and the poor motion resolution is definitely not overblown. It is extremely noticeable under certain conditions. You might find it infinitely frustrating if not impossible to find a tv you have 0 problems with. It's going to require hours of research and viewing actual sets in a variety of conditions to determine what ones fit your needs. It's just hard to recommend a set when a lot of people don't actively notice the problems that others find glaring. I don't mean to be come across as negative, I just think it could be expensive testing and potentially taking back various sets. I would love to have 120hz LCD
sellouts fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Mar 31, 2010 |
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Mar 31, 2010 20:20
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Regarding the Panny G and V 10/20 models, I've got a G10 and never notice the phosphor trail thing. It is definitely a good model if you care about input lag in games. One thing that people might want to keep in mind though, is there is a known issue with these models where the black level will rise pretty quickly over time. It's an issue Panasonic is trying to sweep under the rug, but it's there. Your average user will probably not notice it though. I've had my set since December and honestly I've noticed that the blacks aren't as dark as when I first got it. It doesn't bug me that much, but it's more annoying that Panasonic touts these sets as having a superior black level, when chances are the black level is not gonna be the same 6 months down the line.
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Apr 1, 2010 01:39
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sellouts posted:You might find it infinitely frustrating if not impossible to find a tv you have 0 problems with. It's going to require hours of research and viewing actual sets in a variety of conditions to determine what ones fit your needs. It's just hard to recommend a set when a lot of people don't actively notice the problems that others find glaring. Input lag is a lot lower on 60hz sets  Seriously, Samsung's S-PVA sets tend to have really audaciously high input lag, but my damned LN40B500, with an SQ-01 panel (which is older technology using pixels that aren't rectangular, sort of weird since usually pixels would be columnar and this means that it probably isn't possible to get a 100% straight line, though my eye can't tell), 60hz set with no frills at all, has lower input lag than almost any Samsung LCD made, way lower than the sets in the 600 and 700 series. There isn't really a perfect TV today. Get one that has strengths you find attractive and weaknesses you care little about.
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Apr 1, 2010 02:32
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EDIT: NVM
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Apr 1, 2010 03:22
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Agreed posted:Input lag is a lot lower on 60hz sets Less image processing means less input lag for the most part, which is why the basic low-end sets are better for gaming. Even basic Samsung S-PVA panels meant for pc use only still have like 25-30ms input lag minimum, and that's without any weird image processing to make the set look prettier. The tech itself is flawed. IPS panels are better, but they have issues of their own when compared to S-PVA for viewing. The problem with LCDs is that to get the lowest input lag you have to trade all of that image processing for low input lag and good motion resolution, which is essentially what gives you great looking pq on the newest sets in the first place - turn on game mode, and all of those band-aids that make your set look pretty go away, leaving you with a LCD that looks like it was made five years ago. This is fine for movies/tv where you can have all the input lag you need to add in extra frames, run a scanning backlight, whatever sort of stuff they've added to LCD's over the years to make them look better, but not so much for gaming.
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Apr 1, 2010 08:26
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Crackbone posted:No, it's a side-effect of how plasmas work. More or less usage won't change it. All I know is that I've definitely noticed it reducing. It almost bothered me at first, but I tried GTA4 again last night and even while spinning the camera around I couldn't see it anymore.
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Apr 1, 2010 09:46
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Hey, so I'd like to buy a decent TV for movies and gaming, and I'd be interested in hearing more about LCOS screens, since a cursory search shows that they don't seem to be ridiculously expensive anymore. Is there any reason I'd want to buy a plasma/LCD over a LCOS screen nowadays? I'm pretty lost, to be honest. If you guys could recommend some decent sets (LCOS or otherwise) for around maybe $1000 or so, that would be awesome. Since I play games quite a bit, response time is important. Other than that, I'm really clueless as to what I should be looking for, and the market seems to be pretty saturated with sets around that price range. I'm also in no hurry, so if there's a particular reason I should wait instead of buying one now, that's cool too. I apologize if this is a dumb post/question; I've read the OP, but it's 3 years old now, and I have no clue what changed since then.
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Apr 1, 2010 12:03
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Ashenai posted:Hey, so I'd like to buy a decent TV for movies and gaming, and I'd be interested in hearing more about LCOS screens, since a cursory search shows that they don't seem to be ridiculously expensive anymore. Is there any reason I'd want to buy a plasma/LCD over a LCOS screen nowadays? I'm pretty lost, to be honest. LCOS is not a good choice anymore. A lot of its design was to alleviate problems with projection sets, and those are pretty close to dead. Both plasma and direct-view LCD technology have gotten much better since the LCOS technology debuted, and I don't even know who makes LCOS sets anymore. Also, respone time is not input lag!!! Set makers don't post input lag numbers.
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Apr 1, 2010 12:20
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Crackbone posted:LCOS is not a good choice anymore. A lot of its design was to alleviate problems with projection sets, and those are pretty close to dead. Both plasma and direct-view LCD technology have gotten much better since the LCOS technology debuted, and I don't even know who makes LCOS sets anymore. Okay, so I should be looking at plasma and LCD then, thanks! (Told you I was clueless) I looked around a couple of stores with a buddy who bought a HDTV a year ago; he's not an expert, but he seemed pretty convinced that plasma is the way to go, mostly because of light bleed (blacks not really being black on LCDs.) Is that accurate? I also remember paying attention to contrast ratios back when I bought my 19" screen; is that still important for HDTVs? My buddy said higher contrast ratios aren't all they're cracked up to be. quote:Also, respone time is not input lag!!! Set makers don't post input lag numbers. I thought response time was that thing where bad (high) response times would result in blurry "trails", because the image doesn't update fast enough. Am I off base here? I wiki'ed Input lag, and huh. I didn't even know that was a thing. I do like fighting games, so low input lag is apparently also important for me. Oh christ there's so much I don't know. I do appreciate your help 
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Apr 1, 2010 12:32
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Ashenai posted:Okay, so I should be looking at plasma and LCD then, thanks! (Told you I was clueless) Take comfort in the fact that unless you're a  , most HDTVs now are going to look great to you. It's true that Plasmas have better black levels than LCDs (in general), so if you're okay with the minimal cons (weight, potential for image retention), they're a fine choice. Keep in mind that while plasma's black levels are better, lots of people prefer an overly bright picture. Overly bright picture settings make the blacks brighter, which can negate the whole point of buying a plasma anyway.Reponse time is fairly irrelevant anymore, it's gotten to the point where it's a non-issue on any set you can buy. For input lag, unless your a hardcore fighting game fan, it's not going to matter if you have a couple of frames of input lag - keep in mind that's only 1/30th of a second! I don't think you can easily find a set that has less than 2 frames anyway. Contrast ratio is another bunk number, because no two companies measure it the same way. What size are you looking for and how far away do you sit? I ask because if you can live with 720p, there are a lot of inexpensive sets in that range and 720p still looks really good as long as you're not sitting 2" away from the set. Sony, Samsung, and Pioneer are the "big names" in sets, with LG/Sharp/Toshiba to a lesser degree, all being decent choices. Crackbone fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Apr 1, 2010 |
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Apr 1, 2010 13:01
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Crackbone posted:What size are you looking for and how far away do you sit? I ask because if you can live with 720p, there are a lot of inexpensive sets in that range and 720p still looks really good as long as you're not sitting 2" away from the set. I don't have a TV right now (I watch movies on my 19" PC screen.) I can move my couch as near to or as far from the TV I end up buying as I like, so no practical constraints there. As for size, uh, bigger is better I guess?  I don't have a precise size in mind. For PCs, there's usually a "sweet spot" in price/performance; I'm kind of looking for something similar in TVs. I'm not looking for the biggest, or the best picture quality, just reasonably sized and reasonably good.Also, not a . I want it to look good, but I'm not going to go hunting for dead pixels or go out of my way looking for phosphor trails. I'm a regular dude looking for a regular-dude TV set.quote:Sony, Samsung, and Pioneer are the "big names" in sets, with LG/Sharp/Toshiba to a lesser degree, all being decent choices. My buddy told me he was a fan of Panasonic sets, for some reason. When I asked him why, he said the built-in speakers of Panasonic sets sounded less "tinny" than other sets. I told him this was nonsensical because even the crappiest 5.1 sound system would probably outperform any internal speaker, and that's what I'd be using, but he really seemed to have a hard-on for the brand. Ashenai fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Apr 1, 2010 |
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Apr 1, 2010 13:16
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shelter posted:I'm wanting to get a 46" 1080p TV and right now I'm looking at the Samsung LN46C630 46" 1080p 120Hz LCD for $939. I'm looking at the same TV, looks pretty sweet to me. I like that it has DLNA, it came out in 2010 so I dunno, it should be all new and good. Price seems pretty good. Samsung has so many models its absurd, plus the specs for this set on their website are wrong (claims it has a 40 inch screen), so I couldn't really tell what the difference between this and more expensive sets was. Mostly I just want to hear about how well the 120Hz works. I looked at some LCD sets in Best Buy with and without 120Hz, and found the jutter in panning shots really annoying in the non 120Hz sets.
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Apr 1, 2010 15:29
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This has happened to several people in this thread already so just a word of advice that if a TV "has DLNA" that just means that it can read files off a network share not that it can play all [or even any] of them.
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Apr 1, 2010 15:41
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Ashenai posted:My buddy told me he was a fan of Panasonic sets, for some reason. When I asked him why, he said the built-in speakers of Panasonic sets sounded less "tinny" than other sets. I told him this was nonsensical because even the crappiest 5.1 sound system would probably outperform any internal speaker, and that's what I'd be using, but he really seemed to have a hard-on for the brand. Yeah that's a ridiculous reason to recommend a TV brand, but Panasonic plasmas definitely belong in the current top tier in my opinion.
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Apr 1, 2010 16:46
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http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/ele/1672200262.html Can I ask people what kind of deal they think this is? I've been thinking about upgrading my TV to an HDTV but I don't have a ton of money to work with (probably a max of $750). This seems nice but I've never bought a TV on craigslist and I'm not sure if there is a smarter option for "budget" shoppers like me. I guess what I should be asking is: what can I reasonably hope to find in the $700ish and under range? EDIT: I'm also kind of thinking maybe it's smart to go with a "like new" TV like this: http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/ele/1671693374.html but I'm not sure what the common pitfalls are to watch out for when you're used shopping like this. OSheaman fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Apr 1, 2010 |
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Apr 1, 2010 22:02
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I'd like to see a some info comparing a Panasonic G or V series that has "brightened" to it's closest competitor after the same amount of time. That's really all that matters when it comes to this black level nonsense.
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Apr 1, 2010 23:17
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I was looking at a G20/G25, but the Panasonic TC-P58V10 seems a be superior and slightly larger TV for the same price, despite being a 2009 model. Does anyone here own one? Thoughts on it? I did some searching but only saw a couple posts about it. I'll mostly be watching Bluray movies and playing console games with it.
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Apr 3, 2010 00:22
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pike posted:I was looking at a G20/G25, but the Panasonic TC-P58V10 seems a be superior and slightly larger TV for the same price, despite being a 2009 model. Does anyone here own one? Thoughts on it? I did some searching but only saw a couple posts about it. I'll mostly be watching Bluray movies and playing console games with it. The V10 is probably the best plasma (possibly even best TV, period) you can buy new nowadays. Well except for the V20/V25. Note that there's some sort of shenanigans going on with black levels on Panasonic TV's. Apparently the black levels get worse after a certain amount of time. How serious this is is undetermined at this time and probably depends on the user anyway. All that being said, I don't know how the G20/25 compares to the V10.
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Apr 3, 2010 03:34
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So far I've been pleased with my S1. I guess I'll find out whether or not the black level rises are as bad as everyone makes it out to be. I can only imagine the V series is orgasmic if the S1 is this good.
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Apr 3, 2010 17:19
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I'm moving, and I figure what better way to break in a new place than to buy a sweet tv. Could anyone help with some recommendations: • Looking for around 42" • Used almost exclusively for games. Probably 3/4 console gaming, 1/4 HTPC. 0 cable cause what the gently caress • Noticeable input lag bugs the hell of me, to the point where I rarely use my 2408 WFP monitor because its lag is more noticeable than my little 20" monitor. • No burn-in; I fully expect to pause games, and leave the TV for an extended period of time. • Less than $800. Cheaper is better I was leaning towards a G10, but I'm afraid of seeing phosphor trails and no being able to unsee them. I currently don't even own a TV, so as long as I don't get burn-in or input lag, I'll probably be happy.
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Apr 3, 2010 23:33
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What are some good TV's in the $400-$700 range? Something I can watch my martial arts movies on without blurriness or whatever. 720p and around 32-42"
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Apr 4, 2010 05:22
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