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I Brake For MILFs
Jan 9, 2007

:syoon:




Plasma1010 posted:

I am not bashing in any way this type of music that wants to have, if anything, a very distant influence or label of "Black Metal" attached to it, but I am simply not going to accept it as Black Metal.

It's black metal influenced definitely, but the in most strict sense (which is what Plasma1010 is trying to say) this isn't black metal at all.


That being said, I definitely do enjoy the deafheaven stuff. Horrible name though.

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bleedbackwards
Jan 12, 2008
weapon finesse: my dong

Plasma1010 posted:

Yes I am completely serious. Except for some minor examples, Black Metal tends to pride itself on its disassociation with other Genre's. And why should it not ? Black Metal is very closed minded, which is why an acoustic song named "Bedrooms" is simply not Black Metal.

This art form known as "Black Metal" is not being integrated into more accessible forms of music, however other Bands / Projects (like this "Deafheaven" project, which I am not bashing in any way shape or form, just simply pointing out that it is not Black Metal) that have the common American Screamo / Hardcore / Indie sound and un-intelligible vocals, seem to enjoy tacking on the "Black Metal" label at the end of their projects. Whether this is because Black Metal is now a little more accessible to the public (via Peter Beste Photography / Documentaries / Brooklyn - NYC Symposiums, etc.) and Bands / Projects wish to tap into the fan base, or they have a mis-perception of what the sounds-atmosphere is to create Black Metal, I can assure you that Bands like Deafheaven are not Black Metal.


I am not bashing in any way this type of music that wants to have, if anything, a very distant influence or label of "Black Metal" attached to it, but I am simply not going to accept it as Black Metal.

So what if a band played a very traditional form of black metal musically, but they dressed in XXL white t-shirts and flat-brimmed Yankees hats and their lyrics were about praising God? If they don't fit the aesthetic of black metal but they play music that is identical to black metal, what are you supposed to call them? "Black metal, but they're not serious about it?" There's a strong visual style and philosophy associated with black metal but that's only half the equation, and the other half is the music.

I don't want to poo poo up the thread with arguments about genres so I'll just say we should agree to disagree.

I Brake For MILFs
Jan 9, 2007

:syoon:




bleedbackwards posted:

So what if a band played a very traditional form of black metal musically, but they dressed in XXL white t-shirts and flat-brimmed Yankees hats and their lyrics were about praising God? If they don't fit the aesthetic of black metal but they play music that is identical to black metal, what are you supposed to call them? "Black metal, but they're not serious about it?" There's a strong visual style and philosophy associated with black metal but that's only half the equation, and the other half is the music.

I don't want to poo poo up the thread with arguments about genres so I'll just say we should agree to disagree.

The thing I don't think you're understanding is that image is a part of black metal. It's quite possibly the most important part of the genre. They put on corpse paint for a reason. Their artwork is black with very little flourish for a reason. The music is lo-fi, dissonant, and simple for a reason.

In your example the group you describe absolutely is NOT black metal. In the purest form they are not and they never can be. They don't have all the pieces to be that genre, but even still labeling music is really lame and only should be used in the most generic of ways.

I Brake For MILFs fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Oct 17, 2010

Blue Footed Booby
Oct 4, 2006

got those happy feet




Slippery Tilde

lordblytzkrieg posted:

...only should be used in the most generic of ways.

How about "genres are a means of finding music similar to stuff you already like and not moral imperatives, and do not in any way contain value judgments in and of themselves"?

I Brake For MILFs
Jan 9, 2007

:syoon:




Blue Footed Booby posted:

How about "genres are a means of finding music similar to stuff you already like and not moral imperatives, and do not in any way contain value judgments in and of themselves"?

That's exactly what I was thinking, thank you.

Divorced And Curious
Jan 23, 2009

democracy depends on sausage sizzles


lordblytzkrieg posted:

The thing I don't think you're understanding is that image is a part of black metal. It's quite possibly the most important part of the genre. They put on corpse paint for a reason. Their artwork is black with very little flourish for a reason. The music is lo-fi, dissonant, and simple for a reason.

In your example the group you describe absolutely is NOT black metal. In the purest form they are not and they never can be. They don't have all the pieces to be that genre, but even still labeling music is really lame and only should be used in the most generic of ways.

What happens when you listen to a band's music, which sounds absolutely like black metal, but because they don't have any photos or information about the group online or in the liner notes of a record you have no idea what they look like, and because they have no lyric sheets and use a particularly distorted style of screaming, you can't tell what the lyrics are actually saying, only that they sound malevolent? Neither of those things are especially rare in black metal, yet it could be that the band is exactly the one bleedbackwards was just describing.

Do they stop being black metal as soon as you see a photo that's got nothing to do with the music? Are they not black metal until you can confirm that they are singing about satan or vikings or whatever dumb poo poo and wearing corpsepaint?

Blue Footed Booby posted:

How about "genres are a means of finding music similar to stuff you already like and not moral imperatives, and do not in any way contain value judgments in and of themselves"?
(oh yeah and this too)

IRQ
Sep 9, 2001

SUCK A DICK, DUMBSHITS!



Plasma1010 posted:

Yes I am completely serious. Except for some minor examples, Black Metal tends to pride itself on its disassociation with other Genre's. And why should it not ? Black Metal is very closed minded, which is why an acoustic song named "Bedrooms" is simply not Black Metal.

And those mellow synth tracks Varg cooked up in his bedroom? The difference is that they weren't called "bedrooms" and he may or may not have been contemplating how much he hates the jews while recording them? Hell, "Tomhet" could mean bedrooms for all I know.

You're taking this all a bit too seriously.

The Perfect Element
Dec 5, 2005
"This is a bit of a... a poof song"

This is one of the more retarded discussions that this thread, or even this forum, has witnessed in a while. Once you get to the stage where you require a certain image or ethos to go with your music, you're basically no better than Simon Cowell.

If you require silly outfits and menacing grimaces in order to fully enjoy your music, then I think you seriously need to re-evaluate what it is you're actually looking for in a band.

Cobweb Heart
Mar 31, 2010

I need you to wear this. I need you to wear this all the time. It's office policy.

Just as power metal bands can get away with writing sorrowful songs, black metal bands can get away with writing non-grim and frostbitten songs.

Kaiho
Dec 2, 2004



lordblytzkrieg posted:

The thing I don't think you're understanding is that image is a part of black metal. It's quite possibly the most important part of the genre. They put on corpse paint for a reason. Their artwork is black with very little flourish for a reason. The music is lo-fi, dissonant, and simple for a reason.


Artwork black with very little flourish? No. In fact the gatefold vinyl sleeve is damned beautiful. Black metal? I'd argue so.


Corpse paint and pure grimness? Nah. Black metal? loving hell yes.

This really is a silly discussion to be having - I'd agree with The Perfect Element and IRQ. In fact, I'd love to let it slide but just had to post that Radiohead t-shirt pic. :)

(P.S. IRQ - Tomhet means emptiness, and no doubt refers to the emptiness of Varg's bed even when he was not incarcerated).

thorsilver
Feb 20, 2005

You have never
been at my show
You haven't seen before
how looks the trumpet



deltawing posted:

Yeah that opening scream on Snake Corpse is legendary. Glad more people are hearing about Anthelion, they're awesome.

OK so this is from pages and pages ago, but holy poo poo thanks for mentioning these guys because they loving rule.

Are there any more symphonic black metal bands in this vein out there? I need more MORE

Sirius Sam
Apr 12, 2005

BUTTCHEEKS


So are bands like Walknut and Drudkh not black metal because they don't have simple songs or lo-fi recordings? :psyduck:

Nova Bizzare
Jun 2, 2006

...and it made me smile.

Kaiho posted:


Corpse paint and pure grimness? Nah. Black metal? loving hell yes.

Who dat?

IRQ
Sep 9, 2001

SUCK A DICK, DUMBSHITS!



Nova Bizzare posted:

Who dat?

Anaal%2BNathrakh.jpg

Funeral Mist
Sep 30, 2009


Hey guys we play black metal but we like Radiohead.

thehouseplant
May 2, 2007


Anaal Nathrakh is a fine example of people who play a type of music that don't represent that particular genre in appearance in any way. Even plenty of respectable black metal acts have ditched the corpse paint and spikes and over-the-top garishness in favor of something else entirely.

burzum karaoke
May 30, 2003



IRQ posted:

Anaal%2BNathrakh.jpg

They play black grind. It's part of the coffee-core subgenre.

EvilMoJoJoJo
Dec 9, 2004

ask me about leaving the cult of black metal and bringing jesus into your life

Job 19:17


IRQ posted:

Anaal%2BNathrakh.jpg

Kaiho's crush on Mick Kenny continues unabated, I see :)

IRQ
Sep 9, 2001

SUCK A DICK, DUMBSHITS!



aliencowboy posted:

They play black grind. It's part of the coffee-core subgenre.

I hear they just had a french pressing of their latest house blend.

Kaiho
Dec 2, 2004



EvilMoJoJoJo posted:

Kaiho's crush on Mick Kenny continues unabated, I see :)

KennEy

:swoon:

Divorced And Curious
Jan 23, 2009

democracy depends on sausage sizzles


EvilMoJoJoJo posted:

Kaiho's crush on Mick Kenny continues unabated, I see :)

Can't blame him. Dude's pretty danged good looking.

CornHolio
May 20, 2001



Toilet Rascal

Borknagar had an entire acoustic album, dudes. I still consider them black metal.

Moist von Lipwig
Oct 28, 2006

by FactsAreUseless


Tortured By Flan

Funeral Mist posted:

Hey guys we play black metal but we like Radiohead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWzRyFrBM3s

Also, Anaal Nathrakh is the loving best.

Cobweb Heart
Mar 31, 2010

I need you to wear this. I need you to wear this all the time. It's office policy.


I loving love this song and Sad's version of it is just as amazing. Thank you so much for linking this!

catbread.jpg
Feb 22, 2007



Click here to view the full image

Black metal.

(I don't know, not really but they are funky as hell)

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009


lordblytzkrieg posted:

The thing I don't think you're understanding is that image is a part of black metal. It's quite possibly the most important part of the genre. They put on corpse paint for a reason. Their artwork is black with very little flourish for a reason. The music is lo-fi, dissonant, and simple for a reason.

In your example the group you describe absolutely is NOT black metal. In the purest form they are not and they never can be. They don't have all the pieces to be that genre, but even still labeling music is really lame and only should be used in the most generic of ways.
I wonder how much farther ahead music would be as an artform if people didn't treat it as something other than music and argued about it.

I Brake For MILFs
Jan 9, 2007

:syoon:




Mercrom posted:

I wonder how much farther ahead music would be as an artform if people didn't treat it as something other than music and argued about it.

I don't care about labels or anything at all. Every band you people have linked have not been only black metal bands. They're all hybrid versions, which does make them black metal, but not black metal in the strictest sense. Black metal with no other forms of influence from outside genres is exactly what I described in my previous posts. It's not an argument and It's not up for discussion. Read (and more importantly comprehend) before you post.


edit: Just as a little sidebar; I love Anaal Nathrakh and I love Borknagar (The Archaic Course is one of my top albums ever). This isn't about liking the bands though, this is just purely the semantics of black metal.

I Brake For MILFs fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Oct 19, 2010

Clean Cup
Mar 4, 2009


lordblytzkrieg posted:

you people

What do you mean "you people"

Kaiho
Dec 2, 2004



The gently caress? By that token there is no other black metal band than perhaps Bathory.
Or Venom.

Or Celtic Frost, depending on your point of view.


Urgh this discussion is doing my head in.

Plasma1010
Jul 2, 2007

by T. Mascis


Kaiho posted:

Urgh this discussion is doing my head in.

All I simply said was I do not in any way consider Deafheaven to be Black Metal, then a bunch of people threw in "Vikings", "Satan" and "Corpse Paint" from left-field. Whether it would be nice if Genres didn't exist or not, they do, and I am more then certain that many other people who like Black Metal, like myself, would be quick to judge a Band / Project which labels itself Black Metal and doesn't have many qualities which made up the Tradition of the Black Metal genre. What that Tradition is and what makes up Black Metal ... come to your own conclusions. Mine simply say Deafheaven and certain groups which are either influenced slightly, or are attempting to draw on a Fan Base do not apply to how I define the Genre. I don't believe lordblytzkrieg and I want a debate or a discussion, we are just stating our opinions.

Anyhow, you guys ever listen to Strid ? They did not many songs, then the Bass / Vocalist killed himself. I'm fond of the "End of Life" demo, which is one song ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNa6t0SnLLc ...

And the Strid EP from 1994 is kind of dreary.

Plasma1010 fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Oct 20, 2010

Kaiho
Dec 2, 2004



Countdown to a "black metal" (in the non-traditional vein discussed above) artist appearing in publicity photos with those retarded stripy lenseless plastic hipster shades.

thepitgoddess
Dec 23, 2009

Even Death Metal Monsters Love Cookies


aliencowboy posted:

My passing indifference towards Absu has transformed into a near obsession since I listened to Tara for the first time last week. What an album.

this is a little late, but yesssssssssssss. That album is amazing. When I first heard it, I thought it was a drum machine because no human could do that.

And, you know, the other components are awesome.

The Perfect Element
Dec 5, 2005
"This is a bit of a... a poof song"

thepitgoddess posted:

this is a little late, but yesssssssssssss. That album is amazing. When I first heard it, I thought it was a drum machine because no human could do that.

And, you know, the other components are awesome.

The other components are indeed awesome - I often think that the efforts of the guitarists get a bit overlooked in Absu. Some of the riffwork on that record is just incredible - especially 'She Cried the Quiet Lake'. Man, I loving love that song.

Qu Appelle
Nov 3, 2005

"If a COVID-19 pandemic occurs, public health officials may have additional instructions, such as avoiding close contact with others as much as possible, and staying home if someone in your household is sick." - Official insights from Public Health: Seattle & King County staff



catbread.jpg posted:


Click here to view the full image

Black metal.

(I don't know, not really but they are funky as hell)

What band is this?

Scrambles
Jul 24, 2003

I WANT IT

Qu Appelle posted:

What band is this?

Klabautamann. You would probably like them a lot - folky/proggy black metal, think newer enslaved and borknagar.

MrBling
Aug 21, 2003

Oozing machismo

thepitgoddess posted:

this is a little late, but yesssssssssssss. That album is amazing. When I first heard it, I thought it was a drum machine because no human could do that.

And, you know, the other components are awesome.

Amusingly enough, the drumming and the drum sound is what I can't stand about Absu. I get that Proscriptor is the band leader and so he gets to decide that his drums gets pushed all the way up front in the mix because he's really good at drumming at fast but it gets pretty obnoxious.

Qu Appelle
Nov 3, 2005

"If a COVID-19 pandemic occurs, public health officials may have additional instructions, such as avoiding close contact with others as much as possible, and staying home if someone in your household is sick." - Official insights from Public Health: Seattle & King County staff



Scrambles posted:

Klabautamann. You would probably like them a lot - folky/proggy black metal, think newer enslaved and borknagar.

Sweet, thank you. And I'll go check them out! Musically I'm in a rut, but that's partially my fault for not paying attention to new releases.

Optimum Gulps
Oct 6, 2003

You wanna save this place, right? And I want to destroy it. Brick by hypocritical brick.

Qu Appelle posted:

Sweet, thank you. And I'll go check them out! Musically I'm in a rut, but that's partially my fault for not paying attention to new releases.

For you and anyone else in the mood for folk/black metal, it would be a shame if you didn't hear Nokturnal Mortum's latest release Голос Сталі (The Voice of Steel). It's fantastic and currently has a 98% average on Metal-Archives. Easily one of the best of [barely] 2009 for me.

Here's the title track http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3Bm_cNkt1g

Optimum Gulps fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Oct 21, 2010

fappenmeister
Nov 19, 2004

My hand wields the might



thepitgoddess posted:

this is a little late, but yesssssssssssss. That album is amazing. When I first heard it, I thought it was a drum machine because no human could do that.

And, you know, the other components are awesome.

I wish I could see Absu live. I have to make do with this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jBuZJM7stc&feature=relatedmaniac

Blows my mind every time.

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The Perfect Element
Dec 5, 2005
"This is a bit of a... a poof song"

keratas posted:

I wish I could see Absu live. I have to make do with this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jBuZJM7stc&feature=relatedmaniac

Blows my mind every time.

I saw them live last year and it was one of the most incredible metal shows I've been to in a long time. Tiny venue, great crowd, awesome atmosphere, absolutely stunning musicianship all around... Proscriptor really gives every ounce of himself when he performs, to drum and sing as he does.

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