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Chillbro Baggins
Oct 8, 2004
Bad Angus! Bad!


EvilDonald posted:

I always use the organic torque wrench for wheels. Just get them...tight.
"As tight as you can get it, plus a quarter turn" is my dad's go-to torque for . . . well, pretty much everything (adjusted by how the "as tight as you can get it" is achieved -- e.g. for valve cover bolts use a slippery screwdriver handle and 1/4"-drive socket, for spark plugs a short-handled ratchet, for lugnuts a three-foot 1/2" breaker bar). It's never failed us.

Of course, this is the guy who, when clearing LZs in Vietnam, looked at the formulas that tell you how much explosive to use, decided the variable "p" meant "plenty," and used twenty feet of Primacord to tie a pound of C4 to a tree he could've cut down with his pocketknife.


On a similar note, does anybody actually screw oil filters on as the instructions say? Something like gasket contact plus a fraction of a turn? That seems incredibly loose to me, and I always crank 'em down as tight as I can by hand, and have never had a leak. Of course, Wal*Mart apparently uses the tire-changing impact guns for oil filters, so I doubt it's all that important.

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sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Gimme Gimme Swedish Fish...



Fallen Rib

Delivery McGee posted:

"As tight as you can get it, plus a quarter turn" is my dad's go-to torque for . . . well, pretty much everything (adjusted by how the "as tight as you can get it" is achieved -- e.g. for valve cover bolts use a slippery screwdriver handle and 1/4"-drive socket, for spark plugs a short-handled ratchet, for lugnuts a three-foot 1/2" breaker bar). It's never failed us.

Of course, this is the guy who, when clearing LZs in Vietnam, looked at the formulas that tell you how much explosive to use, decided the variable "p" meant "plenty," and used twenty feet of Primacord to tie a pound of C4 to a tree he could've cut down with his pocketknife.


On a similar note, does anybody actually screw oil filters on as the instructions say? Something like gasket contact plus a fraction of a turn? That seems incredibly loose to me, and I always crank 'em down as tight as I can by hand, and have never had a leak. Of course, Wal*Mart apparently uses the tire-changing impact guns for oil filters, so I doubt it's all that important.
I use a torque wrench on wheels. I use it for wheels more than I use it for anything else. I've had issues with "RFT" snapping wheel bolts and studs, or having the lugs unevenly torqued, causing vibration and brake issues.

I keep a beam-style wrench in my car, as does my fiance, and I check my lug tightness just about every 3rd gas fillup. They are regularly off by a few ftlbs, plus I check tire pressure at that time too.

I follow the directions. Clean the mating surface, oil the gasket, and hand-tight+1/4 turn. I'm not going to say anything about my success rate.

sharkytm fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Apr 9, 2008

whiskas
May 30, 2005


Is it safe to unscrew bolts with a torque wrench?

RIP Paul Walker
Feb 26, 2004



whiskas posted:

Is it safe to unscrew bolts with a torque wrench?

No

Lufiron
Nov 23, 2005


whiskas posted:

Is it safe to unscrew bolts with a torque wrench?

Not unsafe, but you could damage your torque wrench. Best case scenario is that you knock it out of calibration.

hippynerd
Nov 5, 2004

by Ozma


Delivery McGee posted:

"As tight as you can get it, plus a quarter turn" is my dad's go-to torque for . . . well, pretty much everything (adjusted by how the "as tight as you can get it" is achieved -- e.g. for valve cover bolts use a slippery screwdriver handle and 1/4"-drive socket, for spark plugs a short-handled ratchet, for lugnuts a three-foot 1/2" breaker bar). It's never failed us.
At first I was ??? as tight as you can get it + 1/4 turn? hows that possible.
But yeah, I do that too, I can get pretty anal about it too, I think its from wasting lots of time trying to remove whats left over when bolts break. I agree about the using a smaller wrench (the 1/4 turn part seems silly). I have an old distributor wrench that I like to use on questionable bolts.

Delivery McGee posted:

Of course, this is the guy who, when clearing LZs in Vietnam, looked at the formulas that tell you how much explosive to use, decided the variable "p" meant "plenty," and used twenty feet of Primacord to tie a pound of C4 to a tree he could've cut down with his pocketknife.
Uhm... doesnt that leave a hole like 5 wide by about a foot deep? seems like a pretty crappy LZ if you ask me.

Delivery McGee posted:

On a similar note, does anybody actually screw oil filters on as the instructions say? Something like gasket contact plus a fraction of a turn? That seems incredibly loose to me, and I always crank 'em down as tight as I can by hand, and have never had a leak. Of course, Wal*Mart apparently uses the tire-changing impact guns for oil filters, so I doubt it's all that important.

I've never had a problem (as long as I put on the right filter!) with oil filters, but last week a guy told me he followed the directions, and the oil filter seal blew out and was unusable, he had to replace it, so he put it on as tight as he could, and its been fine since.

Big K of Justice
Nov 27, 2005

Anyone seen my ball joints?


I constantly go by OEM torque recommendations ever since the last time I took the humvee to an alignment shop they didn't torque the cam bolts to 300 ft/lbs and I almost lost a wheel assembly while driving a few weeks later.

[Company was Big O Tire, they righted things buy paying for repairs and a new alignment no questions asked at a dealer but that chain can go eat a bag of dicks].

After that incident I picked up 3 used good quality Proto torque wrenches off of ebay, a 3/4" 150-300ft lbs unit for big stuff, a 1/2" 50-250 ft lbs for most tasks and a 1000 inch pounds 3/8" unit for small stuff and differential work. Only ran me about 300$ for the 3 wrenches if you are patient [retail for those 3 would run about 1400$].

I double check all torque work done by 3rd party's, even the dealers work. But lately I've been doing all the work on my own so its a non issue.

Use torque wrenches only for tightening, use a normal wrench for taking stuff off and the initial tightening. Using the torque wrench as a normal wrench is a pretty expensive option considering you can knock your torque wrench out of calibration.

I'd also stock any thread locker and any other goop recommended by the OEM to keep things on spec. A team of engineers sat down and designed things a certain way for better or worse, but when people start over torquing things or not torquing things at all, they wonder why they have vibration issues, leaks and gaskets blowing.

If you aren't going to torque anything at all at least torque your wheels.

if you want good units that will last a long time with a strong warranty I'd look at the PROTO industrial line, Snap On and Beta for starters. Craftsman should be ok if you are on a budget but they're usually pretty close in price to the higher end stuff so you might as well get the higher end brands.

As for the oil filter, I hand tighten them. I hate oil shops who over tighten those fuckers [EZ Lube ]. It sometimes deforms the seal and you get leaks. Worse you have to use the screw driver technique to remove them on the next oil change.

If you want to go all out for torquing pick up a set of crows feet wrenches to go with your torque wrench, then you can start torquing hoses and hard to reach stuff.

miklm
Dec 7, 2003

What a cunning fellow.

Delivery McGee posted:

On a similar note, does anybody actually screw oil filters on as the instructions say? Something like gasket contact plus a fraction of a turn? That seems incredibly loose to me, and I always crank 'em down as tight as I can by hand, and have never had a leak. Of course, Wal*Mart apparently uses the tire-changing impact guns for oil filters, so I doubt it's all that important.

I have use a torque wrench to tighten the top of my oil filter cannister to spec, yes. Mainly I just do "hand tight" on it though, but more importantly the oil pan bolt which is quite likely to strip if you hammer down on it like a 'roid-raged ape.

Some things you pay attention to the torque ratings, others you don't. My BMWs, we use torque wrenches. Farm trucks, hammer them down with the impact and then hit it again for good measure. Its going to rust up anyway, so get that impact ready to break them loose even if torqued to specs. Just use some common sense, or end up with a lot of broken bolts.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





BigKOfJustice posted:

I almost lost a wheel assembly while driving a few weeks later.

So that explains:


BigKOfJustice posted:

[Company was Big O Tire, they righted things buy paying for repairs and a new alignment no questions asked at a dealer but that chain can go eat a bag of dicks].

Agreed, that chain sucks rear end. When my wife got her old '79 280ZX, the previous owner had some roughly two-month-old Nankangs on the back of it that quickly each popped a belt in a big way, and they wouldn't do a damned thing about it. Sure, they legally didn't have to but that's just lovely service.

SNiPER_Magnum
Jan 21, 2001

Don't close. Don't close.

Nap Ghost

How do you calibrate a torque wrench, or check to make sure it is calibrated?

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



SNiPER_Magnum posted:

How do you calibrate a torque wrench, or check to make sure it is calibrated?
You send it to the manufacturer or a calibration facility.

oxbrain
Aug 18, 2005

Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip and come on up to the mothership.


SNiPER_Magnum posted:

How do you calibrate a torque wrench, or check to make sure it is calibrated?

My test rig is a spool of fishing line with an OD of, close as I can measure, 4". Stick a bolt through the center and hang it from something so it can rotate freely. Lifting X pounds by rotating the spool is 2X in-lbs. That's enough for my 3/8" wrench, I don't bother calibrating my 1/2" wrench since it's used on unimportant stuff.

nicad
Feb 21, 2004


EvilDonald posted:

The big chrome thing is a "speeder", and I haven't seen one in forever. I didn't think they were still made, cordless drills have made them pretty much obsolete. The idea is that you can use a deep well socket to run a nut down a long bolt by turning the deal like an old brace and bit.

we use them for switchgear testing, and racking out big breakers (think 20,000 A @ 13kV)

Chillbro Baggins
Oct 8, 2004
Bad Angus! Bad!


hippynerd posted:

Uhm... doesnt that leave a hole like 5 wide by about a foot deep? seems like a pretty crappy LZ if you ask me.
Their helicopters never actually touched the ground outside the wire, so they just needed to get the trees out of the way.


Neither of us has ever broken a bolt using the "estimated torque" method. We have, however, broken a lot of bolts taking them out.

I do own a torque wrench -- one of those cheap clicky ones, probably from Harbor Freight. I've checked a couple of things after estimating the torque by hand, and they were decently close. If it's something important like head bolts, I use the torque wrench, but most everything else I just tighten until it feels right.


For oil filters, there's definitely a happy medium between what the instructions say and what the quickie-lubes do. I screw mine down as tight as I can with my bare hand (I don't usually wear gloves when working on the car. Not much point in it since I always end up dripping oil down to my armpits taking the old filter off).

This is the best tool I've found for removing oil filters installed by roid-raged apes. If it slips, just crank it down another notch and crush the fucker so it'll have some corners to grab onto.

Hypnolobster
Apr 12, 2007

What this sausage party needs is a big dollop of ketchup! Too bad I didn't make any.


Anyone want to recommend me a good but relatively cheap torque wrench? Some rear end in a top hat broke ours* and it's well past the 1 year warranty.






*Sure you can borrow this, what do you need to torque?
Oh, valve covers. You brought your car over to just do it right now and now there's oil all over your engine because you drove it a mile with a loosely installed valve cover. Oh well. Hey wait do you know how to use a torque HOLY gently caress WHAT ARE YOU DOING STOP

AnomalousBoners
Dec 22, 2007

by Ozma


I've got a brand new in box craftsman 1/2" I'll sell for 1/2 retail ($39).

This one:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00944595000P

Maxwedge
May 7, 2007


For lugs, a beam-style is the cheapest and the best type of torque wrench.

Big K of Justice
Nov 27, 2005

Anyone seen my ball joints?


Hypnolobster posted:

Anyone want to recommend me a good but relatively cheap torque wrench? Some rear end in a top hat broke ours* and it's well past the 1 year warranty.

The rear end in a top hat should buy you a new one, but I guess if he had to borrow it in the first place you're boned

How cheap? If you can afford 100$ you should be able to swing a good condition quality torque wrench from Snap On, Proto, etc off ebay or craigslist or a pawn shop. They usually have very long warranties, if not life time and they'll last forever.

If you want a cheapie one, sears may be ok, but I've heard that the warranty for craftsmen torque wrenches are down to 90 days now which says a lot about the quality.

Harbor freight may be ok in a pinch for a throw away torque wrench, I wouldn't trust anything important from that store.

/edit

Linky:

If you're looking for new heres a good Proto model, MSC carries most of Protos torque wrenches along with other brands so if thats not in your range there should be something there that fits your needs:

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/GSDRV...000000051982626

You should be able to find a used one for about half that. I always keep an eye out for used Proto stuff, besides the life time warranty, Defense and Aerospace companies use that stuff since it's tested and certified to exceed standards set by the Automotive and defense industries. IMO, Proto exceeds Snap On in quality, and isn't as recognizable as a big name [ie. Snap On] unless you work on oil rigs and other heavy industrial fields where you'll see Proto Tools pop up.

This reason why I mention that, is that I find used snapon gear go for more then used proto gear, so you can pick up a quality tool without the higher price.

Big K of Justice fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Apr 12, 2008

Taymar
Oct 11, 2007


Is there anything wrong with setting a cheap clicker torque wrench by the readout on a (more accurate?) beam style one, then using the clicker one for torquing the bolt?

Not an ideal situation by any means, but would this work?

VibrioCholera
Mar 7, 2003


I think I got mine from Menards for not very much, works pretty drat well.

While I really do like Craftsman tools, do not buy a Craftsman torque wrench. The warranty on them is ridiculously small and they are not lifetime. It will break at the head, or the handle, or anywhere else. I have two Craftsman torque wrenches and one of them had snall at the head where the socket goes on. That one is now an expensive breaker bar.

The second one the handle and everything relating to it just destroyed itself. That is now an expensive breaker bar that can fit a socket. No, I didn't buy a Craftsman twice, my neighbor broke his and I ended up with it asking for a breaker bar.

VibrioCholera fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Apr 20, 2008

whiskas
May 30, 2005


I just bought a 1/2" corded electric impact wrench. 7A 2000RPM 230ft/lbs

Now the trigger acts as a kind of rocker switch for changing the direction it turns. I'm sure this is a retarded question, but how do I torque something to less than the 230ft/lbs this thing is capable of doing? Is how much it tightens it based on how long I let her rip on a bolt? If so, how long would I hold the trigger down if I wanted to tighten a lug nut to 80ft/lbs or a crank pulley bolt to 105ft/lbs?

When would it not be safe to use just a regular socket on an impact wrench?

hippynerd
Nov 5, 2004

by Ozma


whiskas posted:

I just bought a 1/2" corded electric impact wrench. 7A 2000RPM 230ft/lbs
<snip>
When would it not be safe to use just a regular socket on an impact wrench?

If your working on cars, prettymuch always. You could get torq sticks, but its still some risk. Impacts are great for pulling bolts/nuts off, but you want low torque when putting on bolts (to avoid cross threading or other binding issues). Tighten/Torque by hand.
I have a little, and a big battery powered impacts, I use the little one to put bolts back on, and the big one to pull smaller bolts or loosened bolts. I still finish them with a wrench to be sure though.

Hypnolobster
Apr 12, 2007

What this sausage party needs is a big dollop of ketchup! Too bad I didn't make any.


BigKOfJustice posted:



If you're looking for new heres a good Proto model, MSC carries most of Protos torque wrenches along with other brands so if thats not in your range there should be something there that fits your needs:

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/GSDRV...000000051982626

You should be able to find a used one for about half that. I always keep an eye out for used Proto stuff, besides the life time warranty, Defense and Aerospace companies use that stuff since it's tested and certified to exceed standards set by the Automotive and defense industries. IMO, Proto exceeds Snap On in quality, and isn't as recognizable as a big name [ie. Snap On] unless you work on oil rigs and other heavy industrial fields where you'll see Proto Tools pop up.

This reason why I mention that, is that I find used snapon gear go for more then used proto gear, so you can pick up a quality tool without the higher price.

drat, I'd honestly never heard of Proto before. Hopped on ebay and I'm bidding on a #6014, and I'm going to keep looking and waiting for a deal on a beam/dial fancy Snap-On or Proto to pop up.


Thanks guys.

whiskas
May 30, 2005


So with an impact wrench, if it's rated to 230ft/lbs does it immediately torque the bolt to 230ft/lbs on the first hit, or how long would I have to hold the trigger down to torque it to the capacity of the impact wrench?

aventari
Mar 20, 2001

I SWIFTLY PENETRATED YOUR MOMS MEAT TACO WHILE AGGRESSIVELY FONDLING THE UNDERSIDE OF YOUR DADS HAIRY BALLSACK, THEN RIPPED HIS SAUSAGE OFF AND RAMMED IT INTO YOUR MOMS TAILPIPE. I JIZZED FURIOUSLY, DEEP IN YOUR MOMS MEATY BURGER WHILE THRUSTING A ANSA MUFFLER UP MY GREASY TAILHOLE

Delivery McGee posted:

I do own a torque wrench -- one of those cheap clicky ones, probably from Harbor Freight. I've checked a couple of things after estimating the torque by hand, and they were decently close. If it's something important like head bolts, I use the torque wrench, but most everything else I just tighten until it feels right.

This is how I do everything on my cars as well. It wouldn't work however without quite a few years of loving things up first.

Octavio Barnaby Sr.
Feb 23, 2004

Where you're going, there are no jokes.

Same here. You just learn after long enough, or maybe it's that you eventually realize that a bolted joint that is loaded in compression doesn't really want to come apart so you don't have to ape down on it with a cheater bar to keep an intake manifold from flying off.
You also get really good at removing broken bolts for the first year or so.

Hypnolobster
Apr 12, 2007

What this sausage party needs is a big dollop of ketchup! Too bad I didn't make any.


whiskas posted:

So with an impact wrench, if it's rated to 230ft/lbs does it immediately torque the bolt to 230ft/lbs on the first hit, or how long would I have to hold the trigger down to torque it to the capacity of the impact wrench?


You don't want to think in these terms. Think of the impact as a great way to take off stubborn bolts, and throw on big bolts like lugs. Don't trust it in any "3 seconds = 121ft/lbs" kind of terms.

EvilDonald
Aug 30, 2002

I'm the urban spaceman, baby.

Taymar posted:

Is there anything wrong with setting a cheap clicker torque wrench by the readout on a (more accurate?) beam style one, then using the clicker one for torquing the bolt?

Not an ideal situation by any means, but would this work?

I wouldn't use it for critical stuff, engine internals and the like. That gets a beam wrench, even a cheapy one from Napa will be pretty accurate. The Harbor Frieght clicky one should be adequate for less critical stuff, things that are easily accessible and can tolerate a little overtorquing. Lug nuts, starters, that kind of thing.

I would check its accuracy periodically, though. Get a beam wrench and a 3/8" or 1/2" square socket, whatever your wrench is. Set the click wrench to the desired torque, wrap the shaft of it in a rag and gently secure it in a vise. Now torque on it with the beam wrench and be sure it clicks at roughly the right time. Without spending tons of money on one you won't get a terribly accurate clicky wrench, but you can certainly find one that's "close enough".

trouser chili
Mar 27, 2002

Unnngggggghhhhh


EvilDonald posted:

Without spending tons of money on one you won't get a terribly accurate clicky wrench, but you can certainly find one that's "close enough".

With that said I'd like to mention I got my 3/8-inch drive Snap-On click-type torque-wrench for $25.

Garage sales, estate sales - I love them.

big time bisexual
Oct 16, 2002

Cool Party


Does anyone have a recommendation for a spring compressor that can handle tightly spaced coils? I have a Craftsman spring compressor that works well for the well spaced springs found in Macpherson struts but it is unable to handle springs found in older model Hondas as the clamping mechanism is too thick. The cheaper, the better as long as it does not pose a safety risk (e.g. Harbor Freight's $10 sticks of death).

Doctor Grape Ape
Aug 26, 2005

Dammit Doc, I just bought this for you 3 months ago. Try and keep it around for a bit longer this time.


daddy grapes posted:

Does anyone have a recommendation for a spring compressor that can handle tightly spaced coils? I have a Craftsman spring compressor that works well for the well spaced springs found in Macpherson struts but it is unable to handle springs found in older model Hondas as the clamping mechanism is too thick. The cheaper, the better as long as it does not pose a safety risk (e.g. Harbor Freight's $10 sticks of death).

Have you tried renting AutoZone's spring compressors? They might work, and if they don't you're only out the time it takes to get there and back.

big time bisexual
Oct 16, 2002

Cool Party


Doctor Grape Ape posted:

Have you tried renting AutoZone's spring compressors? They might work, and if they don't you're only out the time it takes to get there and back.

I haven't tried them as I heard a few reports stating that they would not work. Good idea though.

After digging around, it looks like this is the design that would work best:



I especially like how it places the threaded rod a distance away from the coil. The Craftsman I have always ends up so close to the coil that I have to use an open ended wrench to tighten them. The process takes nearly forever to complete.

Pissingintowind
Jul 27, 2006
Better than shitting into a fan.

Can anyone recommend a good inexpensive jack and jack stands? I'm getting sick of using my Rhino Ramps and the unsafe OEM tire jack for everything.

hippynerd
Nov 5, 2004

by Ozma


Pissingintowind posted:

Can anyone recommend a good inexpensive jack and jack stands? I'm getting sick of using my Rhino Ramps and the unsafe OEM tire jack for everything.

HF has ok quality stuff real cheap. You can get a 2 ton floor jack for about $20, and 3 ton jack stands for under $20 (I got a few sets for $13 on sale)

HF==Harbor Freight

Pissingintowind
Jul 27, 2006
Better than shitting into a fan.

hippynerd posted:

HF has ok quality stuff real cheap. You can get a 2 ton floor jack for about $20, and 3 ton jack stands for under $20 (I got a few sets for $13 on sale)

HF==Harbor Freight

Seems like Sears/Craftsman is better, unless someone has had a bad experience with them:

Jack
Pair of stands

Total = $45 and has Craftsman 1 year warranty vs. HF's 90 days. Any comments?

vx15i
Feb 9, 2003


Pissingintowind posted:

Seems like Sears/Craftsman is better, unless someone has had a bad experience with them:

Jack
Pair of stands

Total = $45 and has Craftsman 1 year warranty vs. HF's 90 days. Any comments?

That jack is the exact same rebranded jack you can get at HF and Walmart. I have one and it's dinky and doesn't work very well.

I later purchased the $56 2-1/4 ton jack at HF. Same 2-1/4 ton rating, but a good 5 times bigger than the dinky jack. Only downside is it weighs a ton. I should have gotten the aluminium jack at HF or Northern.

rhombus
Apr 20, 2002



Pissingintowind posted:

Seems like Sears/Craftsman is better, unless someone has had a bad experience with them:

Jack
Pair of stands

Total = $45 and has Craftsman 1 year warranty vs. HF's 90 days. Any comments?

This is the exact same jack and jack stands I bought when I first started working on my car. The jack is okay and I still use it. Those jack stands are a pile of crap and seem very unsafe to work under, even when they are only supporting my fairly small 318ti. They have been replaced by much beefier and just as cheap HF jack stands.

AnomalousBoners
Dec 22, 2007

by Ozma


Get the harbor freight racing jack mentioned in this thread. (And read the god drat thread.) Mine was like $140 or $125 and is awesome because its not that heavy (aluminum) and raises stuff quickly.

As for tools, I just picked up this baby for $18. I have been very happy with my 6" and have used it enough to be on the second battery (which was included.) It has proven to be quite accurate and repeatable.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ct...temnumber=47260

Pissingintowind
Jul 27, 2006
Better than shitting into a fan.

Oops. Delete please.

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Doctor Grape Ape
Aug 26, 2005

Dammit Doc, I just bought this for you 3 months ago. Try and keep it around for a bit longer this time.


RealKyleH posted:

As for tools, I just picked up this baby for $18. I have been very happy with my 6" and have used it enough to be on the second battery (which was included.) It has proven to be quite accurate and repeatable.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ct...temnumber=47260

Oh man, I picked up the 8" variety of this a few weeks ago and I have been measuring everything in sight. Kind of like after I got one of those infrared temperature devices (also from HF).

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