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Shima Honnou
Dec 1, 2010

The Once And Future King Of Dicetroit



College Slice

The Lone Badger posted:

I don't know what this is but I want it anyway.

:iia:

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ought ten
Feb 5, 2004



The Lone Badger posted:

I don't know what this is but I want it anyway.

Me too. Unrelated: what's this Knight's Armament Company 249 ChainSAW I keep hearing about?

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata


ought ten posted:

Me too. Unrelated: what's this Knight's Armament Company 249 ChainSAW I keep hearing about?

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm it's the thing you're talking about.

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



It's literally designed to spray-fire from the hip, so I'm surprised the usual suspects haven't whined about it.

wheres my beer
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

Craptacular posted:

It's literally designed to spray-fire from the hip, so I'm surprised the usual suspects haven't whined about it.

Thats because we whined about it last time it was posted.

Dead Reckoning
Sep 13, 2011


I'm curious how the can stands up to cyclic fire. I hear they can get pretty hot just from normal shooting.

ought ten
Feb 5, 2004



Bummey posted:

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm it's the thing you're talking about.

:thejoke:

Paper Diamonds
Sep 2, 2011


Swap the 203 with one of these

Definitely more ergonomical than using it on an AK rail.

The Automator
Jan 16, 2009


Tubgirl Cosplay posted:

I'm pretty sure this is just TFR going through the awkward teenage phase where posters aren't uncritically adoring of any old poo poo they can actually lay their hands on but instead must vocally and intensely hate everything they liked before because it is now Uncool and they have become Very Serious People, and you might as well just let it slide in the knowledge that eventually they'll grow the gently caress up and relax about stuff that isn't optimized defensive low-drag tango droppers for the urban sandbox but just cheap goofy fun.

I've never liked mosins and have never owned one so there :colbert:


Sixgun Strumpet posted:

heavy
ugly Not as ugly as Enfields. The Enfield is a waaaay better looking gun
crappy triggers That's just describing milsurp in general. Not true. I've shot a lot of milsurp with better triggers than the average 91/30
can't work the bolt half the time I don't get this, even the poo poo russian guns I have shot didn't have this problem. I have very clear memories of using my foot to kick a Mosin bolt loose, and it's been spoken of in the milsurp thread over and over and over.
they feel terrible I disagree, I like shooting my mosins. And I like loving fat girls, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do
sub par accuracy Certainly not with the Finns, they are surprisingly accurate. So the model that is twice the price of the average Mosin that no one really buys is better. Okay.
awful sights That's just describing milsurp in general. The swiss don't loving count. 1903s, Garands, K31s, there's lots of poo poo out there that doesn't have the awful Mosin sights that don't even point where the bullet is going half the time.
unspectacular in every way Dirt cheap, easy to operate and clean, fun for making fireballs.
has literally no pros over other bolt action rifles Enfields exist :colbert: The Delisle exists, which completely validates the Enfield
built by starving people who probably couldn't read Then fixed by drunk Finns.
they come in gross yellow grease None of mine did. Lets look at the milsurp thread or anyplace else on the internet about Mosins coming in cosmoline
takes lovely rimmed ammo Or good rimmed ammo if you buy the right stuff. No such thing as good rimmed rifle ammo.

I'll give you two of those, and that's because I'm feeling generous today.

Also you like old stupid guns anyway.

Sixgun Strumpet
Feb 16, 2009

Heh, yeah, 'round here I call myself The Enabler. I suspect pretty much everyone wishes they could be me -- I'm kind of a big deal, you see.


The Automator posted:

I've never liked mosins and have never owned one so there :colbert:


I'll give you two of those, and that's because I'm feeling generous today.

Also you like old stupid guns anyway.


I'm pretty sure you need to shoot one of these http://www.gunsnammo.com/

Of course, they are good, so they apparently got expensive. I paid about $200 for the last one I bought, and $80 for the finn 91/30

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata



:downs:

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Mosins are the last gasp of early smokeless split-bridge receiver design and were functionally obsolete within about a decade of being introduced. They were OK-ish in WW1, kinda crap by WW2, and officially poo poo by Korea.

The fact that the Finns managed to un-gently caress the design significantly is less a testament to the rifle and more to the ingenuity and skill of Finnish armorers, plus the long-standing fact that they live next to Russia. There were bunches of people in the Finnish military who wanted a different pattern rifle, and they experimented with tons of poo poo, but the fact that they would realistically only ever go to war with Russia basically meant they needed guns that could be repaired/replaced/fed with Russian crap in a pinch. They've been making much nicer versions of Russian small arms pretty much ever since.

Some people like collecting guns because of history poo poo, and Mosins are great for getting into that. There's a whole laundry list of things you can do to horribly gently caress up expensive milsurp. Decided to take it apart, just grabbed a screwdriver out of your toolbox, and hosed the screw heads? Congrats, you hosed up your rifle, I sure hope it wasn't some German or American gun you put real money down for. They're great for learning all the stupid, idiosyncratic bullshit that goes along with collecting milsurp and getting one to gently caress with is a good first step even if you have more cash than a broke college freshman.

There are other guns that are (nearly) as cheap and common as a Mosin, but none have that beginning milsurper appeal of having actually been constructed by a major belligerent during WW2. You have to be pretty hard core into grandpa guns to give two shits about the post-war firearms industry of Yugoslavia.

They have their place, and it's a needed one, but the majority of people who buy one are ultimately going to realize that at it's core it's a crappy rifle. If you have reasons for getting into guns that don't include "I have an unnatural obsession with history" right up near the top of the list they're probably best avoided.

The Automator
Jan 16, 2009


yeah i'll never poo poo on one for being part of a ww2 collection or whatever, but they're pretty piss poor at being a gun

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx


Fun Shoe

The Automator posted:

yeah i'll never poo poo on one for being part of a ww2 collection or whatever, but they're pretty piss poor at being a gun

They're unreliable?

The Automator
Jan 16, 2009


Do you consider not being able to work the bolt to eject and load another round without kicking/hitting it reliable?

Sixgun Strumpet
Feb 16, 2009

Heh, yeah, 'round here I call myself The Enabler. I suspect pretty much everyone wishes they could be me -- I'm kind of a big deal, you see.


The Automator posted:

yeah i'll never poo poo on one for being part of a ww2 collection or whatever, but they're pretty piss poor at being a gun

This statement strikes me as being very similar to "Snubbie revolvers are nothing but a belly gun and aren't suitable out past 10ft".

A Finn mosin is pretty drat good at being a gun, although it is certainly far from being the best. My opinion of them radically changed after a range day with a friend of mine who would consistently hitting a steel gong out at 600 yards with his antique from gunsnammo using whatever random poo poo ammo we have scrounged up at the gunshow.

It is entirely possible to stumble on dirt cheap SA marked mosins, there are plenty of people who still don't really know what they are. If you find one, you are getting a lot of gun for the money, and something that is way better then everyone makes it out to be.

I only have a few guns left from my early gun collection of impulse buys. My M38 is never going anywhere.

Great Beer
Jul 5, 2004



The Automator posted:

Do you consider not being able to work the bolt to eject and load another round without kicking/hitting it reliable?

If your Mosins bolt is doing this, you need to disassemble the bolt and finish cleaning the cosmoline out of it. Ive had to do this three separate Mosins and its fixed the sticky bolt problem every time.

Scratch Monkey
Oct 25, 2010

Proč bychom se netěšili když nám Pán Bůh zdraví dá?


http://improguns.blogspot.ca/2011/11/improvised-8-shot-pepperbox.html

LAZERZ

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Sixgun Strumpet posted:

This statement strikes me as being very similar to "Snubbie revolvers are nothing but a belly gun and aren't suitable out past 10ft".

A Finn mosin is pretty drat good at being a gun, although it is certainly far from being the best. My opinion of them radically changed after a range day with a friend of mine who would consistently hitting a steel gong out at 600 yards with his antique from gunsnammo using whatever random poo poo ammo we have scrounged up at the gunshow.

It is entirely possible to stumble on dirt cheap SA marked mosins, there are plenty of people who still don't really know what they are. If you find one, you are getting a lot of gun for the money, and something that is way better then everyone makes it out to be.

I only have a few guns left from my early gun collection of impulse buys. My M38 is never going anywhere.

How big a gong?

1 MOA at 600 yards is 6 inches, which would be a pretty loving tiny gong to throw out at that range. Given that he was using iron sights and it would have to be pretty easily visible with the naked eye I'm going to guess at least a 3 foot gong? That would be about 6 MOA-ish at 600 yards.

6 MOA is nothing special out of any rifle. Even your bog standard 70s refurbed m91/30 is at least a 3-5 MOA gun mechanically speaking. Deviation caused by ammo is additive with deviation caused by the barrel, and a lot of cheap as poo poo crap x54r naturally yields about 3-5 MOA by itself, hence a lot of the reports of 10-12" groups at 100 yards with cheap Mosins shooting cheap ammo.

Finn Mosins do have much nicer barrels than the typical soviet m91/30. They are far more accurate guns as a result, and frequently have triggers that were improved on in-service to be pretty decent.

Even so, all of that elevates them to being decent guns, not great guns that someone should make a point of owning if they have no interest in milsurp, history, etc. If all you want is a decently accurate rifle that will ring steel at 600 yards that isn't too hard to find. The fact that your friend can consistently slap plate at 600 yards with a gun that has bog standard Euro military v-notch sights makes him a good rifle shot and means that he's shooting a halfway OK gun - it doesn't really speak volumes about the quality of the firearm beyond passing a bare minimum level of adequacy.

I like my Finn Mosins. They're pretty cool guns and a fine example of what a good craftsman can do with even a pretty crap design if he really goes over it with an eye towards improving it. Even so they suffer the same limitations as the basic design: The design and ergonomics of the stock and bolt are straight out of the mid-late 19th century, the safety is a sick joke, and there are real problems with bolt retention if you're walking around in the woods with them or doing other army-type stuff.

A good shooter with a worked-over example of the platform is no more an indication of the over-all quality of the gun than, to use your own example, a good pistol shooter with a highly tuned .38 snubbie. The fact that you are a good shot with the latter doesn't mean that a j-frame is the ideal carry piece for a newbie shooter who is never going to practice with it.

Mosins are what they are. If you're super poor and can't or wont pay more than $100 for a rifle and $.25/rd for ammo then they make a useful bottom rung. They'll go bang and put rounds into a 1 foot target at 100 yards for you. Improve on the ammo and they'll do much better than that. If you are getting into milsurp and don't want to gently caress up a nicer gun learning the ropes, hey, perfect choice. But they're an antiquated design that has been surpassed in every single possible metric by even the crappiest of modern commercial firearms. If you can save up even a tiny bit more this $300 Remington 770 with whatever crap-grade scope comes with it from Bud's is flat out a better gun than any Mosin you will ever find, and for a price that is very much in line with what a Finn costs these days.

Frankly this goes for all milsurp. Obviously I love milsurp, and within a few narrow, specific areas you can find some loving amazing quality at relatively rock bottom prices. Still, on the whole, if you are looking to fill a specific function (hunting, precision shooting, self defense, etc) chances are that there is a much better new produced option out there.

tl;dr Old poo poo is really cool, but 100 years of advancements in firearms design, fabrication techniques, and engineering in general hasn't been totally for naught.

Tubgirl Cosplay
Jan 10, 2011

by Ion Helmet


There's something of a difference between a "highly tuned .38 snubbie" and an until recently ~$250 arsenal-stock antique military gun from the 40s.

I mean yeah, ho hum, your Swede sniper mauser's great for a piece of old crap but accuracy-wise it's not a patch on this brand new $5000 bench gun made out of a 40lb block of milled aluminum!

Tubgirl Cosplay fucked around with this message at 19:39 on May 10, 2013

wheres my beer
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

Cyrano4747 posted:

If you can save up even a tiny bit more this $300 Remington 770 with whatever crap-grade scope comes with it from Bud's is flat out a better gun than any Mosin you will ever find, and for a price that is very much in line with what a Finn costs these days. engineering in general hasn't been totally for naught.

Id rather sporter a mosin than shoot a Remington 770.

Tubgirl Cosplay
Jan 10, 2011

by Ion Helmet


Oh man I missed the 770 comment

Cyrano, as a person who has owned and used a 770 I assure you they are not a better gun than anything. I would sooner buy a Mosin - in fact, I did trade my 770 up to a Mosin and I can think of few gun-related decisions I've made I've been happier with longterm.

For that matter, if the Mosin wasn't an option I would sooner just light the money on fire, at least then I could just get on with my life a mere $300 poorer without being weighted down by the Stick of Misery.

Tubgirl Cosplay fucked around with this message at 19:48 on May 10, 2013

Shima Honnou
Dec 1, 2010

The Once And Future King Of Dicetroit



College Slice

Miso Beno posted:

Id rather sporter a mosin than shoot a Remington 770.

And if you gently caress up sporting it you can still afford 2 more Mosins before you outspend that 770!

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Miso Beno posted:

Id rather sporter a mosin than shoot a Remington 770.


Wasting Money by LeviTheGiant, on Flickr
:smuggo:

PCjr sidecar
Jan 26, 2011

dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme



Tubgirl Cosplay posted:

Oh man I missed the 770 comment

Cyrano, as a person who has owned and used a 770 I assure you they are not a better gun than anything. I would sooner buy a Mosin - in fact, I did trade my 770 up to a Mosin and I can think of few gun-related decisions I've made I've been happier with longterm.

For that matter, if the Mosin wasn't an option I would sooner just light the money on fire, at least then I could just get on with my life a mere $300 poorer without being weighted down by the Stick of Misery.

I thought I remembered some other evidence that the 770 isn't very good:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2587867&pagenumber=1247&perpage=40#post392020885

PCjr sidecar fucked around with this message at 01:46 on May 11, 2013

IPCRESS
May 27, 2012


...

Is he planning on getting his friend with the lathe to friction weld the barrel longer? Or does he think that if you run the lathe backwards you can use it to add material?

e: typo

SpartanIvy
May 18, 2007


Hair Elf

Maybe he imagines the lathe operator can do something like this to elongate it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3O9DMiEvqw#t=93s

Pitch
Jun 16, 2005

しらんけど


He could mean to have the barrel threaded and then an extension pinned and welded on. At which point your Mosin has ceased to be merely a money pit and become more like an industrial money shredder.

right arm
Oct 29, 2011




nothing remington makes is "good"

PCjr sidecar
Jan 26, 2011

dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme



right arm posted:

nothing remington makes is "good"

If Cerberus owns a company its usually a good sign that the company's products are going to be / are poo poo.

Bilal
Feb 20, 2012



right arm posted:

nothing remington makes is "good"

Does Remington make your posts ooooooh

Cruising armslist for AR parts and I found the ugliest upper I've ever seen:





The worst offender of course is the VFG that was ugly and out of style in the previous decade, and the tube being so short in comparison to the barrel doesn't help.

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



Bilal posted:

The worst offender of course is the VFG that was ugly and out of style in the previous decade, and the tube being so short in comparison to the barrel doesn't help.
That makes me wonder if anyone's put a front sight gas block on one of those 16" pistol-gas 300BLK barrels yet. :haw:

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

I should note about that Mosin, I should add some of his comments. I'm not sure, but sounds like he's going for an accidental felony.

Tacticool Mosin Person posted:

The action is a Mosin Nagant 91/30. The grip isnt to bad because the stock angle is flat off the base comb. i have a scout scope mount on it...and the stock folds, which reduces length to 26". it fits in my bug out bag easily. Thank you all for the info. I will call them today.The action is a Mosin Nagant 91/30. The grip isnt to bad because the stock angle is flat off the base comb. i have a scout scope mount on it...and the stock folds, which reduces length to 26". it fits in my bug out bag easily. Thank you all for the info. I will call them today."

quote:

Scout scope mount is not on it in the picture, and the barrel is off to get its brake welded this weekend. Finally my baby is getting complete...all under $400

I had no idea that a Mosin really needed a brake, or a folding stock, or to fit into a bug out bag.

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



soon as i get :swoon:MY BABY:swoon: back, i'm gonna gently caress her sooo gooood

PCjr sidecar
Jan 26, 2011

dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme



snotball007 posted:

I should note about that Mosin, I should add some of his comments. I'm not sure, but sounds like he's going for an accidental felony.



I had no idea that a Mosin really needed a brake, or a folding stock, or to fit into a bug out bag.

Well, unless you have a Bugout ski bag...

SinistralRifleman
Oct 9, 2007

by Cyrano4747


Re the KAC Stoner machine gun in chainsaw configuration it was a proof of concept for a non shoulder fired gun that could be integrated with an optics package that made traditional aiming unnecessary. Think of something like a HUD with a laser attached to the gun that moved a reticle around on a visor or an aiming camera attached to the gun fed to an eye piece.

The Mossberg chainsaw is Mossberg trolling the industry. Every year they come out with something loving stupid just to see how it sells.

DrakeriderCa
Feb 3, 2005

But I'm a real cowboy!

SinistralRifleman posted:

Re the KAC Stoner machine gun in chainsaw configuration it was a proof of concept for a non shoulder fired gun that could be integrated with an optics package that made traditional aiming unnecessary. Think of something like a HUD with a laser attached to the gun that moved a reticle around on a visor or an aiming camera attached to the gun fed to an eye piece.

The Mossberg chainsaw is Mossberg trolling the industry. Every year they come out with something loving stupid just to see how it sells.

Exactly. It's like their tactical lever actions. I've spoken with mossberg reps about these guns in the past and that company has an awesome institutional sense of humour, unlike most other firearms companies.

MazeOfTzeentch
May 2, 2009

rip miso beno


Like the .17 HMR and 22LR boltguns they made with the big roadblocker brakes.

Mossberg is so good at being unironically silly.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007



DrakeriderCa posted:

Exactly. It's like their tactical lever actions. I've spoken with mossberg reps about these guns in the past and that company has an awesome institutional sense of humour, unlike most other firearms companies.

"If it's stupid but it sells... well OK it's still stupid but the designer is getting a bonus."

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SinistralRifleman
Oct 9, 2007

by Cyrano4747


About 10 years ago I was selling a Mossberg 500 at a gun show and it kept getting looks but no takers. Then I wrote "SOCOM" on the tag and the next gun show cretin that looked at it bought it

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