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Tmavomodry
Jun 2, 2008

Professionals have standards. Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet.



hahaha "tactical-life.com"

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Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


ddr3gamer posted:

Wow, I never realized that this would create such a shitstorm.
From the other pictures on the posted link, I am led to believe that the rear optic is offset to the left, so you don't look through both.

The rifle above, directly from the factory before tacticlollery:

I prefer this one to the abortion above


EDIT: Found another article on it, with longer range optics and what looks almost like a nerf Longshot Bipod:


http://www.tactical-life.com/online/special-weapons/springfield-socom-ii-762x51mm/

M14s in plastic furniture with 18-20" barrels are loving stupid

MazeOfTzeentch
May 2, 2009

rip miso beno


Kommienzuspadt posted:

M14s in plastic furniture with 18-20" barrels are loving stupid

Those are 16" barrels; The muzzle brake also points up.

[sarcasm] Great for keeping that night vision well adjusted. [/sarcasm]

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Dogbrisket
Jun 10, 2009



Kommienzuspadt posted:

M14s in plastic furniture with 18-20" barrels are loving stupid

Is the objection to them based on functionality, or purely aesthetics?

The Automator
Jan 16, 2009


Kommienzuspadt posted:

M14s in plastic furniture with 18-20" barrels are loving stupid

Wait what you realize the military has used fiberglass stocks on M14s for ages, right?

Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

M14s in synthetic stocks are the only way M14s should ever be. Ask Fang. He wanted to stick with wood for the life of him but ended up seeing the glory of fiberglass.


Also I think he meant to say "M14s with 16" barrels are criminally lame," instead of questioning the mighty 20ish range of barrel lengths.

Uncle Caveman
Jun 16, 2006

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.


22", but who's counting.

Black Stormy
Apr 1, 2003



I am sorry, but wood stocked M14's are the sexiest guns on the planet.

Slim Pickens
Jan 12, 2007



Grimey Drawer

"My DAD used an M14 and said it was awesome, so obviously the AR is a piece of poo poo rodent rifle"

Let's say a unit has SR-25's and M14 EBRs. Which one do you think gets taken on missions, and which one is just a fancy range gun?

Ron Mexico
Dec 31, 2004



*shoots the everloving gently caress out of a poodle*

The Automator
Jan 16, 2009


Slim Pickens posted:

"My DAD used an M14 and said it was awesome, so obviously the AR is a piece of poo poo rodent rifle"

Let's say a unit has SR-25's and M14 EBRs. Which one do you think gets taken on missions, and which one is just a fancy range gun?

I have heard first hand accounts of people that prefer the M14, but I'm sure it's all user preference in the end, with a good share of each going out.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



ph4lcon posted:



define "beefier"

Heavier, better able to balance a gun as front-heavy as a stock-less M14 with a bunch of accessories added to it.

Front-heaviness is a common complaint of people who put collapsing stocks on 20" ARs, and that's a MUCH lighter base action than a M14.

Sgt. Shaved Balls
Sep 6, 2006

by Lowtax


M14s are loving queer guns

CETME 4 LYFE

B4Ctom1
Oct 5, 2003

OVERWORKED COCK


Slippery Tilde

infrared35 posted:



When designed, they should have added a device that made a little "ping" sound for nostalga sake, but only when the mag was half empty

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


Gtab posted:

M14s in synthetic stocks are the only way M14s should ever be. Ask Fang. He wanted to stick with wood for the life of him but ended up seeing the glory of fiberglass.


Also I think he meant to say "M14s with 16" barrels are criminally lame," instead of questioning the mighty 20ish range of barrel lengths.

ya thats true i meant short rear end M16s à la the SOCOM thats got a short rear end barrel and a light and VFG and poo poo.

cat with hands
Mar 14, 2006

When I shit I like to scream "WORSHIP THE GOD EMPEROR ON HIS GOLDEN THRONE." Mom hates it.



ph4lcon posted:

And dont you ever insinuate that an m14 with a troy stock, aimpoint, NV, and surefire vfg, is to be considered airsoft. Stick with what you know.

Yes you are right, airsofters usually put together better looking guns than that. Even the idiots around here that spend thosands of euros on real accessories.


It looks like poo poo and most likely will handle like poo poo. Having lots of brand name stuff thrown on doesn't change the fact that it's high, front heavy, the barrel is too short, the boreline is too high and it's a goddam 7.62 cqb rifle. Maybe it could it work as a DMR in dense urban terrain but that's about it.

DrakeriderCa
Feb 3, 2005

But I'm a real cowboy!

I really don't understand the appeal of a short barreled M14 other than the cool factor. It would be uncontrollable on FA, have marginal long range performance and still be heavy as gently caress. The only advantage I can see is increased barrier penetration, which isn't even an advantage if you're a cop or if you're in Afghanistan.

They have their place (The jungle), but I'm not jumping up and down for them. Also, I have respect for you ph4lcon, but your response to Cyrano was total kneejerk tactical fanboyism.

Nine Lives
Feb 28, 2008

Day in, day out


Kommienzuspadt posted:

M14s in plastic furniture with 18-20" barrels are loving stupid

Fang
Jul 9, 2001
If you don't think ponderous, clumsy sentence structure loaded with hamfisted thesaurus wankery makes good writing, you're probably just too dumb to read my posts.

/r/iamverysmart

bunnielab posted:

How strong is the M14 action? I know that people have converted M1s to stuff like .375Ruger and .458win. A 16" M14 in something more medium would fill my fuddish heart with joy.

Garand actions are ludicrously strong. Mr. J.C. Garand himself tested M1 actions to the point of destruction. He found that at 120,000 CUP (nearly 150K PSI), one lug would crack, but it would still function just fine with regular ammo afterward.

There's a company that will convert your M1 Garand to .458 Winchester Magnum. It has to be a reweld job on the receiver, though, and from what I read those are very hard to do well.


Gtab posted:

M14s in synthetic stocks are the only way M14s should ever be. Ask Fang. He wanted to stick with wood for the life of him but ended up seeing the glory of fiberglass.

It's true. Fiberglass is so much nicer.



Ignore the M1907 sling; it has since been replaced by a GI/M1 sling.

Edit: I don't understand why people keep trying to turn the M14 into an AR in .308. M14s make poor AR-15s, and trying to shoehorn the action into a form factor in which it was never designed to operate leads to all sorts of ergonomic horrors.

bongwizzard
May 19, 2005

Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"

Grimey Drawer

Fang posted:

Garand actions are ludicrously strong. Mr. J.C. Garand himself tested M1 actions to the point of destruction. He found that at 120,000 CUP (nearly 150K PSI), one lug would crack, but it would still function just fine with regular ammo afterward.

There's a company that will convert your M1 Garand to .458 Winchester Magnum. It has to be a reweld job on the receiver, though, and from what I read those are very hard to do well.

That was the guy I was thinking of. I have no idea of the quality of his work but god damm those things are ugly. I have no idea why cutting the forend off seemed like a good idea. It's still going to be a heavy gun so it's not like saving a few ozs will get you that much. I don't really need .458mag though, I would be more then happy with .375ruger which I assume would be a more simple conversion as it uses a .30-06 sized action. The idea of a 18" M14 in something like .338Fed or something like that is pretty appealing too.

Away Message
Apr 8, 2003



bunnielab posted:

That was the guy I was thinking of. I have no idea of the quality of his work but god damm those things are ugly.
Really? I think they look pretty good. But the MAS 49 conversion is so very appropriate for this thread.

The McCann Industries MAS 49-56 Receiver Conversion turns what many believe to be one of the ugliest battle rifles ever produced, into a firearm of beauty and functionality.

B4Ctom1
Oct 5, 2003

OVERWORKED COCK


Slippery Tilde

Away Message posted:

Really? I think they look pretty good. But the MAS 49 conversion is so very appropriate for this thread.

The McCann Industries MAS 49-56 Receiver Conversion turns what many believe to be one of the ugliest battle rifles ever produced, into a firearm of beauty and functionality.

ARify everything right?

MazeOfTzeentch
May 2, 2009

rip miso beno


Looks better, more comfortable and more functional than the unmodified one. I like it. What caliber is that chambered in? EDIT: nevermind, I forgot to ask googlepedia first. 7.5x54 French. Moon caliber battle rifle.

WimpBastard
Feb 11, 2006

"sorry about my dick"

It might have been kind of ugly but now most people wouldn't give it a second look since it looks just like every other AR out there.

Detective Thompson
Nov 9, 2007

Sammy Davis Jr. Jr. is also in repose.

Looks like generic AR-style crap to me, whereas the MAS 49 at least had its own aesthetic uniqueness to it. It'd be like taking a Lotus Elise and slapping a Yugo body on it. It's a stupid conversion.

RU 187 261 LIB
Feb 20, 2009

M is for MURDER


Detective Thompson posted:

Looks like generic AR-style crap to me, whereas the MAS 49 at least had its own aesthetic uniqueness to it. It'd be like taking a Lotus Elise and slapping a Yugo body on it. It's a stupid conversion.

There is also a long history of .308 conversions on the MAS 49 doing VERY poorly.

Locobono
Nov 6, 2003

Pump Action


ddr3gamer posted:

Wow, I never realized that this would create such a shitstorm.
From the other pictures on the posted link, I am led to believe that the rear optic is offset to the left, so you don't look through both.

The rifle above, directly from the factory before tacticlollery:

I prefer this one to the abortion above


EDIT: Found another article on it, with longer range optics and what looks almost like a nerf Longshot Bipod:


http://www.tactical-life.com/online/special-weapons/springfield-socom-ii-762x51mm/

e: It would seem that I forgot Image Leeching == Bad. Fixed.

That one on the bottom is a JAE-100 stock and they are awesome. They're the only bolt on stock I'd buy for the M-14. Since they all cost $500+ and the SAGE stock is funky as hell I'd get my money's worth.

I don't know if I meet ph4lcon's definition of "paid to be bad rear end" but I do CQB and I say using an M14 for room clearing is retarded. Also what AF PJs carry isn't exactly the gold standard for room clearing, in case that's not obvious.

It's got 8 pounds of steel on top of your supporting hand and you can't swing it around for poo poo. The barrel is long as hell and you have to choke up the stock all the way past your ear to keep it out of doorways in the stack. Anyone running point with it would have to have forearms the size of turkeys to hold it up with because it's so god drat heavy. The recoil and flash are huge, and loud. And the ergonomics suck.

In CQB smaller + lighter = more better, so trying use an M14 for room clearing is like trying to learn to dance while wearing a body cast.

Ygolonac
Nov 26, 2007

pre:
*************
CLUTCH  NIXON
*************

The Hero We Need


It's that they did poorly, it's that they were done by idiots just giving a chamber ream a grind or three, "hurrr looks 'bout right" Century-style.

BrainGlitch
Jan 14, 2007

Good sir, you can't pay me enough to go to France while our countries are at war!


Maybe I'm just weird, but I love the look of the MAS 49. In fact I'd say the MAS family of rifles is one of the prettiest milsurp rifle families around.

spookykid
Apr 28, 2006


Kobax posted:

Also what AF PJs carry isn't exactly the gold standard for room clearing, in case that's not obvious.

I work with PJs, as I'm attached to a CSAR unit, and I've never personally seen them use M14's, even on the rough missions where we were pulling the army's rear end out of the fire. All I ever saw them take were M4's and the occasional 870. Then again, we were in Afghanistan.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


Away Message posted:

Really? I think they look pretty good. But the MAS 49 conversion is so very appropriate for this thread.

The McCann Industries MAS 49-56 Receiver Conversion turns what many believe to be one of the ugliest battle rifles ever produced, into a firearm of beauty and functionality.

the french military actually does a similar job on their surplus MASes iirc, but they rechamber them and do a whole work up to makke them sub moa sniper rifles. i could be wrong though.

ArcMage
Sep 14, 2007

What is this thread?


Ramrod XTreme

Kommienzuspadt posted:

the french military actually does a similar job on their surplus MASes iirc, but they rechamber them and do a whole work up to makke them sub moa sniper rifles. i could be wrong though.

Those are MAS 36s, kind of, sort of, in a way, but not really.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


ArcMage posted:

Those are MAS 36s, kind of, sort of, in a way, but not really.

yeah i got the feeling they were only pretty vaguely related. i think its the same action, though. they're called the hécate i think.

ming-the-mazdaless
Nov 30, 2005

Whore funded horsepower

Kommienzuspadt posted:

yeah i got the feeling they were only pretty vaguely related. i think its the same action, though. they're called the hécate i think.

FR F1.

ArcMage
Sep 14, 2007

What is this thread?


Ramrod XTreme

Kommienzuspadt posted:

yeah i got the feeling they were only pretty vaguely related. i think its the same action, though. they're called the hécate i think.

Well, it's a bolt gun, where the MAS 49 is a semiauto.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



ArcMage posted:

Well, it's a bolt gun, where the MAS 49 is a semiauto.

The FR F-1 that ming mentioned is an updated, sniperized version of the MAS 36 and is a bolt action.

The FR F-2 is essentially the same rifle but chambered in 7.62NATO rather than 7.5 French. I'm pretty sure they did a few other things to the design, but they're more or less cosmetic - a polymer sleeve around the barrel to act as a handguard and stuff like that.

The hecate is basically France's take on big bore sniper rifles. It's bolt action, looks a lot like Barret bolt action offerings, and is made in both .338 and .50.

Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Jul 13, 2009

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


Cyrano4747 posted:


They also had a sniperized version of the MAS 36 that was used up until the 80s or so, although I forget its name.

thaaats it. whats it called?

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Kommienzuspadt posted:

thaaats it. whats it called?

Bah, I'm just a bit downsy tonight - I've been dealing with student loan poo poo.

The FR F-1 and FR F-2 are based on the MAS 36 action. I don't think they've done a sniper version of the MAS 49, which makes sense - most semi-auto rifles transition really, really poorly to the sniper role, especially rifles from that late 40s-early 60s generation. Look at all the less than amazing attempts to make sniper G/K43s, M1 Garands, M14s, and G3s (yes, the PSG-1 is a kind of sub-standard sniper rifle when compared to anything that's not semi-auto - hell, it's less accurate than most off the shelf rifles in the M16 family).

Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Jul 13, 2009

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George Zimmer
Jun 28, 2008


Cyrano4747 posted:

Bah, I'm just a bit downsy tonight - I've been dealing with student loan poo poo.

The FR F-1 and FR F-2 are based on the MAS 36 action. I don't think they've done a sniper version of the MAS 49, which makes sense - most semi-auto rifles transition really, really poorly to the sniper role, especially rifles from that late 40s-early 60s generation. Look at all the less than amazing attempts to make sniper G/K43s, M1 Garands, M14s, and G3s (yes, the PSG-1 is a kind of sub-standard sniper rifle when compared to anything that's not semi-auto - hell, it's less accurate than most off the shelf rifles in the M16 family).

There are French surplus scopes that seem to be designed for the MAS49, but then again 49's and 36's have similarly shaped receivers, so it might be interchangeable. Also, according to a knowledgeable guy on the surplusrifle.com's forums, MAS49 barrels are categorized according to what role they would best serve as, sniper being one of these categories.

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