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Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


Oh, I dont think its confused as such. Breaking Bad isnt confused, even though a huge section of the fan base didnt realise the main character is actually the bad guy. Similarly, although The Shield undoubtedly had fans that wanted to see four white cops beating up urban thugs, it did a very good job of showing the thousand different ways you can be a bad person, or a bad cop; and that you can also be those things and still care about the job in some strange way.

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CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


I think breaking bad is different. Walt owns his enemies but its just two drug dealers fighting.

Vic is a cop which at least theoretically should be a good profession, so showing him doing bad things but those bad things being really effective undercuts any message you can have

The pedophile episode is the best example of that

George RR Fartin
Apr 16, 2003






CharlestheHammer posted:

I think breaking bad is different. Walt owns his enemies but its just two drug dealers fighting.

Vic is a cop which at least theoretically should be a good profession, so showing him doing bad things but those bad things being really effective undercuts any message you can have

The pedophile episode is the best example of that

I haven't seen it since it aired, but I do recall it tried to both-sides it a lot. It portrayed Vic as a dirty cop who had moments where he "did the right thing" or at least was motivated not to be a monster, but those were balanced out by his being a monster more often than not. And while the show could've spent more time humanizing the gangs in a similar way as it did the strike team, by and large most of the time spent with them was dehumanizing or focused on the Worst of the Worst. It's a show where Basically Everyone Sucks, and I don't know it if was really trying to get the viewers to extrapolate more meaning from it than that. It's a very cynical show, even if the ending was harsh to Vic.

sad question
May 30, 2020



If he was completely ineffective in addition to being an rear end in a top hat the show would become a farce, though. It's like if Shane was actually the main character.

Not sure if that would make the show funny or unwatchable.

Aphex-
Jan 29, 2006



Dinosaur Gum

Watched all of season 1 of A.P. Bio and it was awesome, currently working my way through season 2 and it's just as good so far. I don't think there's a character in the show that I don't enjoy, they're all hilarious.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



CharlestheHammer posted:

I think breaking bad is different. Walt owns his enemies but its just two drug dealers fighting.

Vic is a cop which at least theoretically should be a good profession, so showing him doing bad things but those bad things being really effective undercuts any message you can have

The pedophile episode is the best example of that

Walt's victims aren't limited to drug dealers, though. His family and innocents get hurt by him again and again. He's toxic.

That was just a period of time like with Sopranos and Mad Men where the big thing was toxic, self destructive protagonists. The Shield isn't trying to present Vic as an anti-hero or anything. He's a dirty cop and a toxic, destructive person. He's not pure evil. He has lines and he justifies his actions as necessary to do his job or take care of his family or protect his guys. And people buy into those rationalizations in the show because they're morally compromised and human as well or because they too can rationalize a reason. But over and over the theme is that Vic corrupts everyone around him and everyone suffers for it. I don't think the show has as clear a message as something like "the system is corrupt" so much as it has a broader idea that "the ends do not justify the means."

But it came in that period where I think the shows were less about a bigger message and just more character studies of deeply broken characters like Walter White, Don Draper, and Tony Soprano.

Incelshok Na
Jul 2, 2020


I feel like anybody who watched The Shield and didn't already loving hate cops probably missed a bunch. ACAB man, they were all rotten. You were never supposed to root for the cops and if you ever rooted for the cops you should probably spend some time thinking about why you would do such a hosed up thing and try to use that realization to fix whatever the hell is wrong with you.

Lotus Aura
Aug 16, 2009

KNEEL BEFORE THE WICKED KING!


Having now finished all of iZombie, I can say for certainty that it was definitely a fantastic ride. Season 3 was the overall peak, though. It absolutely had flaws of course; spontaneously dropping the HIV metaphor for a more generic badly done race war plot, upping the brain traits from minor quirks to personality switches to over-the-top caricatures, and all of Season 5's pacing, just to name a few.

On the plus side, it does make me that much more intrigued by what Veronica Mars has to offer since early iZombie was good enough that it got bumped up to next on my list of things to watch.

showbiz_liz
Jun 2, 2008


Dragonatrix posted:

On the plus side, it does make me that much more intrigued by what Veronica Mars has to offer since early iZombie was good enough that it got bumped up to next on my list of things to watch.

It's great, particularly the first season. And having rewatched it fairly recently, its overall message of "loving rich people, jesus" has only become more relevant. Plus for my money it has one of the best father/daughter relationships ever on TV.

Lucas Archer
Dec 1, 2007
Falling...

I just polished off the first season of Person of Interest and have entered the second season. There's no way I'm going to finish the series by the time it leaves Netflix, I don't think, unless I dedicate the next few days to doing nothing but watching it. While I'm enjoying the show, I'm not enjoying it THAT much.

That being said, Bear is the best and greatest character and had better be in every episode from here on out.

Solice Kirsk
Jun 1, 2004

.


I got about four episodes into Raised By Wolves before I realized the creators/writers weren't intentionally making it the most milquetoast sci-fi "adventure" on purpose. Everything is by the numbers, the "twist" they're setting up is super obvious, and the child actors are near unwatchable. If it was just a liiiiiittle worse I'd be able to watch it as a train wreck, but it's just good enough not to be fun to watch. It's a really weird spot for a show to fall into and I can't think of another show that fills that same kinda area for me.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

Well I'm hoping POI goes to HBO and I can finish it there, I'm still S2 myself.

Secret City on netflix deals with similar issues of privacy and govt overreach. Anna Torv stars as Anna Torv journalist who likes to dig dirt on politicians and gets caught up in a dangerous political poo poo storm. Basic plot is Australia and China get into a tiff which also stresses Australia's relationships with the US and Japan. Conservative elements use it as lever to promote Orwellian cyber security laws. It's very good, suspenseful, with complex characters, fast paced, and full of detail that matters to the story.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


sad question posted:

If he was completely ineffective in addition to being an rear end in a top hat the show would become a farce, though. It's like if Shane was actually the main character.

Not sure if that would make the show funny or unwatchable.

I think thats why it doesnt know what it wants to be. If it wanted to be about a lovely amoral cop, Shane should have been the main character. But it also wanted to be an action packed police procedural, which unfortunately has all the hang ups those shows have

Philthy
Jan 28, 2003



Pillbug

BigBallChunkyTime posted:

Also, High Score on Netflix is a fun docuseries about the history of video gaming.

It's honestly the only docuseries about video games I've thoroughly enjoyed so far. I'm not a huge retro gaming nerd or anything, but I grew up on Atari, Nintendo, Doom and it basically covered a ton of cool stuff I never knew about in those eras and the film/music was really professionally done. It was really great to watch. They went the extra mile easily.

An Ounce of Gold
Jul 13, 2001

Back in action!


Ted Lasso. Watch it. Super cliche kind of set up but the character of Ted Lasso will win you over by the end of episode 2. The guy has heart. I really thought it was going to be dumb and goofy and instead it's quick, clever and charming.

Take it from me, some person on the internet!

BetterLekNextTime
Jul 22, 2008

It's all a matter of perspective...


Grimey Drawer

My wife and I are watching a couple of shows now. First, Borgen, a danish political show on Netflix. Pretty enjoyable, my guess is it's like Madame Secretary or West Wing light (although haven't seen the first and only a few of the second). We usually do subtitles instead of overdub but they were flashed so fast we couldn't follow them and did the British English dub. I swear the person who does the main characters voice also does voice-over for translated interviews for Deutche Welt or Euromax or one of those news programs. It's a little weird sometimes. Anyway, I don't know if the show breaks any new ground but it's been pretty even quality through the first season.

The other is The Sound on Acorn. Drama/thriller set in New Zealand but with a partially Canadian cast. It's kind of boring and the acting isn't great. Maybe we'll keep going with it, and maybe we won't.

And on my own, finally starting watching the Boys S2. Loving it so far.

cryptoclastic
Jul 3, 2003

The Jesus


An Ounce of Gold posted:

Ted Lasso. Watch it. Super cliche kind of set up but the character of Ted Lasso will win you over by the end of episode 2. The guy has heart. I really thought it was going to be dumb and goofy and instead it's quick, clever and charming.

Take it from me, some person on the internet!

I saw a bunch of posts like this on another site and gave it a try, and this is exactly the truth. The whole premise of the show is that he's impossible to hate, and the same goes for the show. It's so endearing and needed these days.

George RR Fartin
Apr 16, 2003






An Ounce of Gold posted:

Ted Lasso. Watch it. Super cliche kind of set up but the character of Ted Lasso will win you over by the end of episode 2. The guy has heart. I really thought it was going to be dumb and goofy and instead it's quick, clever and charming.

Take it from me, some person on the internet!

Yeah, it's just an earnest, good show. It humanizes basically everyone but the one super rich dude who is a giant philandering prick, and is just plain sweet all around.

SweetMercifulCrap!
Jan 28, 2012


Lipstick Apathy

Just finished the second season (well, the first half of it) of PEN15. Show is way better than it has any right to be. The backbone of the show is that the two female leads (who are also the creators and writers), in their 30's, are playing middle school versions of themselves in the year 2000, while the rest of their peers are played by actual middle schoolers. It's endlessly entertaining watching these two absolutely nail acting like middle schoolers. While it's always funny to see them juxtaposed against the actual kids, you start to forget about the age difference because of how natural everyone plays it. It's obviously heavily focused on the female middle school/puberty experience, but is really something anyone can enjoy as it reminds you of the same cringey moments and awkward thought processes you had yourself when you were in middle school.

It's also one of those shows that catches you off guard with a light comedic premise you feel you're not supposed to take seriously or get invested in, and then before you know it you are and suddenly its hitting you with some surprisingly poignant or beautiful moments.

It's not exactly a period piece, but there are lots of nods to the experience of that era, like a heavy emphasis on AIM. Being the same age as the actors and having been in middle school at the same time as them, the show just works extremely well for me and probably will for most older millennials.

newts
Oct 10, 2012


Been watching Lucifer on Netflix since the new episodes were added.

I realize it's a dumb show, but I honestly don't mind it. The procedural aspect doesn't really bother me much either, except when the character arcs also get rote. This is especially bad in season 3 when they go all in on the 'Lucifer makes the case all about his issue' trope, and everyone seems to reset their growth every episode. Probably seems worse when you binge it vs watching each week.

Those issues stopped bothering me when they moved to Netflix. The episodes flow better. The procedural feels less procedural. I also really like the little magical realism bits and the whimsy they've added, like the happy Caddyshack dance and trying to solve Mr. Said Out Bitch's murder in hell.

But everyone needs to stop being a dick to Maze, drat!

ONE YEAR LATER
Apr 13, 2004

Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!


Oven Wrangler

I have to echo the above, Pen15 is an incredibly sincere show that really hits on the pain, awkwardness, and joy of being a hormonal 13 year old. I watched the third episode of season 2 last night and poo poo man, it was written by Anna Konkle too. Clearly she has real experience being stuck between two rear end in a top hat parents in the middle of a collapsing marriage.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

Person of Interest went to the worst possible streaming solution for me, Direct TV ... as I'm about to cancel Dish and cut the cord, or satellite as the case may be.

Ishamael
Feb 18, 2004

You don't have to love me, but you will respect me.

Ishamael posted:

I watched the first two episodes of Cobra Kai, and I wanted to hate it. It's an attempt to cash in on one of my favorite movies from my childhood, made for YouTube Premium or whatever the gently caress. But man, I am so into it.

The setup is great, of course that is where these guys ended up. I wish Elizabeth Shue and Mr Miyagi were in it, but fame and death make that unlikely. I'm definitely in for a bit to see how it goes, it is better than I expected.

Also, I love that Johnny is still trying to be 80s-cool. Snapping the beer cap across the room, driving his Firebird, talking about GNR. I knew that guy in the 80s, and I still know a couple of those guys. It's perfect.

Finished Season 1 of Cobra Kai, and it was just a ton of fun. Probably the highlight of the season was the scene with Daniel getting the headband back out again and the Mr. Miyagi stuff, they did it just right. But the ending was great, too.

My only complaint is that it gets a bit soapy/CW-ish on the kids stories, and they rely way too much on the "someone walks in, sees a situation, misinterprets it, and goes away mad before having a chance to learn the truth" trope. Oh and Daniel's student has the most punchable face in the world.

Otherwise, if you enjoyed the film back in the day, it's a definite recommend. One of the few sequels/reboots that takes the original idea and does something interesting with it, while giving you enough fan service to be enjoyable.

Accretionist
Nov 7, 2012
I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES


In Karate Kid, Daniel was a violent psycho. Do they do anything with that?

Inspector 34
Mar 9, 2009

DOES NOT RESPECT THE RUN

BUT THEY WILL


Now he's a successful and wealthy violent psychopath

Remy Marathe
Mar 15, 2007




Accretionist posted:

In Karate Kid, Daniel was a violent psycho. Do they do anything with that?

This is actually where I thought they were going to go, and my favorite parts have been where you see Johnny's point of view with Daniel as the rear end in a top hat. A little ways into season 2 it's seeming a lot sappier as they show everyone as fundamentally decent people, which is cool as a point of view for the show but the Daniel parts are saccharine sometimes.

bowmore
Oct 6, 2008





Lipstick Apathy

Accretionist posted:

In Karate Kid, Daniel was a violent psycho. Do they do anything with that?
You can definitely tell there is some violence just under the surface, especially with his interactions with Johnny

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream



CharlestheHammer posted:

I think thats why it doesnt know what it wants to be. If it wanted to be about a lovely amoral cop, Shane should have been the main character. But it also wanted to be an action packed police procedural, which unfortunately has all the hang ups those shows have

Its been a few years since I watched it but I seem to remember the procedural elements more or less disappearing or at least being drastically toned down by the third season and the show being very much serialised from that point on

Mrenda
Mar 14, 2012



I think I've watched the first season and a half/two seasons of Deadwood three or four times, and I'm going through it again. I'm up to midway season two in a few days, and I actually sat down and watched the first episode (i.e. just a few days after seeing it again, again) with some people last night. I think I know why I keep falling off it. The first few episodes/first season is really loving funny. The scene with Al, EB and the Irish guy, Doherty, making their mark is hilarious. Farnum is generally hilarious, Wild Bill's comments can be hilarious. Amidst all this horrific stuff there's some proper laugh out loud moments. During the second season there's one or two (and Jane calling people cocksuckers in general) but there's far fewer of them and what ones there are (EB masterminding his cook into spreading rumours) are overwhelmed by the bleakness. The first season has these really deft touches where the grim reality (an actual "reality" not grim-dark) is offset by some highly comic acting or hilarious turns of phrase. There's none, or very little of that, to be found in what I've seen after the first season.

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003





It's probably best you've never made it to the end of S3 then, saves you some aggravation over the lovely ending-non-ending.


That said, I burned through it a few months ago at the beginning of quarantine and my reaction to the end of S3 was definitely tempered. I think the annoyance was there when I first watched the series and was super invested in it, but now that I know it's coming I was very "meh" on it.

Meatgrinder
Jul 11, 2003

Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est


Martytoof posted:

It's probably best you've never made it to the end of S3 then, saves you some aggravation over the lovely ending-non-ending.


That said, I burned through it a few months ago at the beginning of quarantine and my reaction to the end of S3 was definitely tempered. I think the annoyance was there when I first watched the series and was super invested in it, but now that I know it's coming I was very "meh" on it.


Have you watched the film?

Martytoof
Feb 25, 2003





I did, so that probably helped temper it further.

I'll be honest though, it was hard to put the series and film together. I know where they go, but I kind of just watched the film in its own bubble, not strictly as a continuation of events even though that's what it is.

phosdex
Dec 16, 2005




I have been watching Ted Lasso from the recommendations earlier. Enjoying it and also a nice break from trudging through Agents of Shield. I don't know her name, but Ted's wife is the woman from Better off Ted. I don't think I've ever seen her in anything else before so it was a surprise when I realized where I recognized her from. And the Higgins guy has that sweet Volvo wagon in a super beautiful blue. I have never seen a Volvo in the US in that blue, euro only color maybe?

SimonChris
Apr 24, 2008

The Baron's daughter is missing, and you are the man to find her. No problem. With your inexhaustible arsenal of hard-boiled similes, there is nothing you can't handle.

Grimey Drawer

I just binged through The OA, and that was extremely my poo poo; I love weird, pretentious stuff and season 2 became downright Lynchian at times. It's too bad there won't be a third season, but the ending works for me as a dark open-ended conclusion.

I imagine the pitch meeting went like this (season 1 spoilers):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68NFI0R8TTc

joepinetree
Apr 5, 2012


I started rewatching justified as my "unwind to fall asleep series" and I was shocked to see that Chadwick Boseman actually had a small part in season 2 (he was the drug dealer who wanted to become a magician in the furbot episode).

Your Gay Uncle
Feb 16, 2012

Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?


Dragonatrix posted:

Having now finished all of iZombie, I can say for certainty that it was definitely a fantastic ride. Season 3 was the overall peak, though. It absolutely had flaws of course; spontaneously dropping the HIV metaphor for a more generic badly done race war plot, upping the brain traits from minor quirks to personality switches to over-the-top caricatures, and all of Season 5's pacing, just to name a few.

On the plus side, it does make me that much more intrigued by what Veronica Mars has to offer since early iZombie was good enough that it got bumped up to next on my list of things to watch.

I loved izombie but it always bugged me that they never once turned the bone saw on but played the sound effect.

Also check out Party Down, Rob Thomas did that show too and it's amazing. It's got Adam Scott, Lizzy Caplan, pre-Glee Jane Lynch and Megan Mullaly and Matin Starr. Sadly there are only 2 seasons but each episode is amazing.

Your Gay Uncle fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Sep 27, 2020

Red Oktober
May 24, 2006

wiggly eyes!





Your Gay Uncle posted:

I loved izombie but it always bugged me that they never once turned the bone saw on but played the sound effect.

Also check out Party Down, Rob Thomas did that show too and it's amazing. It's got Adam Scott, Lizzy Caplan, pre-Glee Jane Lynch and Megan Mullaly and Matin Starr. Sadly there are only 2 seasons but each episode is amazing.

Not to mention a pre-Frozen/The Good Place Kristen Bell!

BetterLekNextTime
Jul 22, 2008

It's all a matter of perspective...


Grimey Drawer

We just finished S2 of Borgen which we liked even better than S1. Highly recommended for a West Wing style show. We were set to go on S3 but Netflix said the British audio track wasn't available. Not sure if it's a technical glitch or Covid related in not being able to get voice actors into studios (show was 2013 but maybe they're just getting around to it now that it's hit an international market?). We went back to S1 and watched the first couple with the Danish audio and subtitles (subtitles were too fast for us to use)-- like the Danish voices better but I think we would have been struggling to catch everything if we'd gone that route.

I checked IMDB and it's showing an S4 release in 2022 so as long as it doesn't go downhill in S3 I'm excited to see it address current day issues.

Annabel Pee
Dec 29, 2008


Watching 'Criminal: UK' on Netflix and it's such a let down. Interesting premise, great cast, (A different guest plays the criminal each episode, David Tennant & Kit Harrington are two) But the plots are fairly generic and feel like they could do with one more clever twist or so per story, its pretty much always the person is accused of murder and did it, or the person is admitting to murder and is actually covering up for someone else. It has the weird feel lots of Netflix stuff has where it almost seems written by an AI to appeal to as many people as possible, maybe thats even true and they are designed for foreign markets in mind, I noticed they also have a Criminal: France, Spain and Germany on Netflix too.

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wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

Criminal feels like someone tried to turn 1998's The Interview with Hugo Weaving into a tv series. I didn't like it either, the script was generic and David Tennant seems to be sleepwalking through it.

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