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DragQueenofAngmar
Dec 29, 2009

You shall not pass!
Yeah, the only one Iíve found online is Cranes Nest and theyíve been defunct a while. Guess Iíll do some more looking on meetup and facebook and see if I can dig anything else up!

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derp
Jan 21, 2010

when i get up all i want to do is go to bed again

Lipstick Apathy
hello i am playing go again after stopping for 5+ years
pretty wild that absolutely nothing has changed on any of these sites since then and the same number of people if not less are playing. crazy

a.p. dent
Oct 24, 2005

derp posted:

hello i am playing go again after stopping for 5+ years
pretty wild that absolutely nothing has changed on any of these sites since then and the same number of people if not less are playing. crazy

i just grabbed the SmartGo One app which seems to be much improved. has actual tutorials and stuff. maybe i'll finally get the hang of it

Sataere
Jul 20, 2005


Step 1: Start fight
Step 2: Attack straw man
Step 3: REPEAT

Do not engage with me



This is probably a dumb question, but where do you find social clubs for go? I always wanted to get better, but I have no interest in playing online. The game doesn't hold my interest in front of a computer.

Xom
Sep 2, 2008

文化英雄
Fan of Britches
I found a group via MeetUp before the pandemic.

Blendy
Jun 18, 2007

She thinks I'm a haughty!

If youíre in America hereís a list of AGA affiliated clubs https://www.usgo.org/where-play-go

DragQueenofAngmar
Dec 29, 2009

You shall not pass!
You can also check on https://baduk.club which seems a little more current; itís also possible to find individual players near you or add yourself for other people to find

Sataere
Jul 20, 2005


Step 1: Start fight
Step 2: Attack straw man
Step 3: REPEAT

Do not engage with me



Thanks! All of that looks awesome. I can't wait to show up to one of these and get my rear end kicked!

a.p. dent
Oct 24, 2005
been playing a lot against the computer and a couple players on OGS, and i'm getting frustrated. i can't seem to get the hang of it. i tried to move up to 13x13 against SmartGo and i can't win even with a 4-stone handicap, which makes me feel terrible at the game.

right now i'm playing games watching the analysis to see when i make a blunder, but i often have no idea why a seemingly-innocuous move completely flips the game. even following the next few moves doesn't really help. maybe i need a teacher? it just seems like with a 4 stone handicap it should be nearly impossible for me to lose, maybe i'm wrong about that.

i'm reading Learn to Play Go, and it's good, but it's all tactics that i don't see come up in my games. i feel blind to what's happening. should i maybe get a teacher? i think i need someone to explain stuff to me, because the computer isn't really helping. unfortunately there aren't any go clubs nearby (albany, ny) so i don't think that's an option.

Scythe
Jan 26, 2004
How long have you been playing?

4 stones is a decent size handicap, especially on the 13x13 board, but handicaps go up to 9 stones for a reason, and even with a 9-stone handicap, even advanced amateurs who have been playing for years and years cannot beat pro players. The skill differences between a pro and an advanced amateur, between them and an intermediate, between them and a beginner, and between them and someone who has literally never played are around 9 stones each. Go has massive depth.

If you've been playing for less than a few months, and you understand the rules, IMO you should read less (or not at all, for now) and play more. And you should play all 3 standard board sizes, to get a feel for how they're different (9x9 is all about close fighting tactics, 19x19 is where long-term strategy comes in). You'll start to see the patterns the more you play, and if you're the type to be interested in the game in the first place, you'll start to get it soon.

There is a proverb (there are always proverbs in this poo poo): "Get your first 100 losses as soon as possible." One of the best things that playing go taught me was how to lose more gracefully.

VictualSquid
Feb 29, 2012

Gently enveloping the target with indiscriminate love.
One of your problems is probably that the computer doesn't play in a way that is fun and educational to lose against.
If you just make a online ranked account on a normal go server you can instead play against people at your level, and win approximately half of your games. Which will teach you a lot more.
And as they say, after 100 losses (in normal games), you will understand enough of the game that you can learn more effectively.

a.p. dent
Oct 24, 2005
thanks, this was helpful!

Scythe posted:

How long have you been playing?

4 stones is a decent size handicap, especially on the 13x13 board, but handicaps go up to 9 stones for a reason, and even with a 9-stone handicap, even advanced amateurs who have been playing for years and years cannot beat pro players. The skill differences between a pro and an advanced amateur, between them and an intermediate, between them and a beginner, and between them and someone who has literally never played are around 9 stones each. Go has massive depth.

If you've been playing for less than a few months, and you understand the rules, IMO you should read less (or not at all, for now) and play more. And you should play all 3 standard board sizes, to get a feel for how they're different (9x9 is all about close fighting tactics, 19x19 is where long-term strategy comes in). You'll start to see the patterns the more you play, and if you're the type to be interested in the game in the first place, you'll start to get it soon.

There is a proverb (there are always proverbs in this poo poo): "Get your first 100 losses as soon as possible." One of the best things that playing go taught me was how to lose more gracefully.

i played for maybe a month, but a year ago, and forgot most of what i learned. the handicap info makes me feel better.

VictualSquid posted:

One of your problems is probably that the computer doesn't play in a way that is fun and educational to lose against.
If you just make a online ranked account on a normal go server you can instead play against people at your level, and win approximately half of your games. Which will teach you a lot more.
And as they say, after 100 losses (in normal games), you will understand enough of the game that you can learn more effectively.

yeah, like in chess, the computer is weird because it can perfectly punish mistakes. i just beat someone online in a 13x13 game, so that feels good!

CaptainEO
Sep 24, 2007

Found Something Great Here
It might be helpful to watch some "over-explained" beginner game reviews on YouTube - creators like Jonathan Hop, Michael Redmond, and Nick Sibicky make these videos from time to time. On a 13x13 board you can start getting a feel for whether a corner is likely to become territory for white or black, and what extra moves you need to make to create or stop that territory from happening.

You can always post an SGF of a game (e.g. via eidogo.com) and ask here for questions about specific moves.

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Playing against humans will really hammer home some common patterns - e.g. around what happens when two lines approach a board edge. I lost a lot of points before working them out!

a.p. dent
Oct 24, 2005
god this game is so loving satisfying when things work. i'm starting to recognize patterns and keep my shapes alive, so much fun after a long battle to realize YES, i have two eyes

i'm 16kyu on OGS if anyone ever wants to play, username dmansen

a.p. dent
Oct 24, 2005
just played a 13x13 where i successfully played a ladder breaker, and then read another ladder as good for me (correctly). feel like a god

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

a.p. dent posted:

just played a 13x13 where i successfully played a ladder breaker, and then read another ladder as good for me (correctly). feel like a god

Just beat my 6yo on 13x13 with a 5 stone handicap, I still got it.

a.p. dent
Oct 24, 2005

PerniciousKnid posted:

Just beat my 6yo on 13x13 with a 5 stone handicap, I still got it.

that's right

finally worked all the way through Graded Go Problems for Beginners Vol 1 yesterday. i think i bought it a year ago but never finished it. it's helping me a lot in games. starting Vol 2 now, seems very good also

a.p. dent
Oct 24, 2005
question, is this a dead shape?



it's kinda hard to tell via computer analysis because after B2 it just starts playing elsewhere. it looked big enough to live for me so i didn't bother trying. is the strategy to play B2 then B3? that would make sense to me.

i also see white B2 black B3 to connect, then white C1.. but it's hard for me to work out

Borachon
Jun 15, 2011

Whiskey Powered
W B2 kills, yes.
  • If B doesn't respond at B3, W will cut there and connect out.
  • If B does respond at B2, W will play at C1.

After B2/B3/C1:
  1. B can't make two eyes directly
  2. W can take B's liberties away while making a shape that, if captured, would still be a large single eye such as what Sensei's Library calls the Bulky Five or Pyramid Four shapes.

Thus, B is dead if W plays B2.

a.p. dent
Oct 24, 2005

thank you!

a.p. dent
Oct 24, 2005
could somebody add me to ITGO? username dmansen

if anybody wants to play correspondence against a 14kyu hit me up

a.p. dent
Oct 24, 2005
Tesuji is a good book

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

Is there a good YouTube/otherwise channel for analysing Go games like the many we have for Chess? I love Go but am absolutely terrible at it so in the meantime I'd like to watch better people play and someone explain strategies / wargame what they think the players might do to explain rationale behind moves.

I'd like to pretend it's because I can somehow onboard that knowledge but really I just like seeing people smarter than me doing smart things.

Mederlock
Jun 23, 2012

You won't recognize Canada when I'm through with it
Grimey Drawer

Tesseraction posted:

Is there a good YouTube/otherwise channel for analysing Go games like the many we have for Chess? I love Go but am absolutely terrible at it so in the meantime I'd like to watch better people play and someone explain strategies / wargame what they think the players might do to explain rationale behind moves.

I'd like to pretend it's because I can somehow onboard that knowledge but really I just like seeing people smarter than me doing smart things.

Nick Sibicky is your guy https://youtube.com/@NickSibicky

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006
Nick's go classes are pretty much the only YouTube go content I can tolerate.

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009


This looks fantastic. Thanks!

giogadi
Oct 27, 2009

Sheís not so active anymore, but Hajin Leeís channel is relaxing and high-skill go https://youtube.com/@HayleesWorldofGoBaduk

Officer Sandvich
Feb 14, 2010
Michael Redmond occasionally streams pro games:
https://www.youtube.com/@MichaelRedmondsGoTV/streams

The Massachusetts Go Foundation ran a league (they're now running the AGA online league) and posted reviews of some of the games:
https://www.youtube.com/@massachusettsgofoundation2066/videos

a.p. dent
Oct 24, 2005
i've arrived at 10kyu :blastu:

more people should play this great game

Xom
Sep 2, 2008

文化英雄
Fan of Britches
:toot:

Xom
Sep 2, 2008

文化英雄
Fan of Britches
Long ago when I was 3-kyū, I posted a guide for newbies in this thread opining on what to learn first, and I can't believe I never thought of posting it directly on Sensei's Library until now.

There, now it's easier to link non-goons to: https://senseis.xmp.net/?Xom#toc1

a.p. dent
Oct 24, 2005
that's a good page!

really struggling to cross over to SDK, been at 10k for a while now. reading attack and defense for the 3rd time, maybe it'll stick

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



a.p. dent posted:

that's a good page!

really struggling to cross over to SDK, been at 10k for a while now. reading attack and defense for the 3rd time, maybe it'll stick

I'm kinda in the same boat and I find rereading fundamentals of go to be more rewarding than A&D. I feel like A&D assumes you've internalized direction of play too much for most DDKs, it's problems and solutions don't click well enough to help.

Scythe
Jan 26, 2004
Iíve been bouncing around mid-SDK for a long time and usually find that a Fundamentals reread helps a concept click into place faster/better than picking up Tesuji, L&D, or Attack again.

Officer Sandvich
Feb 14, 2010
Playing correspondence games for awhile seems to help if I feel like I'm not learning anything new. Being able to come back later if no moves jump out or having to figure out the state of the game each time I make a move gives new perspective.

a.p. dent
Oct 24, 2005
been at 9k for a few days :D

Xom
Sep 2, 2008

文化英雄
Fan of Britches
I just realized I never posted this yet: https://archive.is/tDYsY

FT posted:

Man beats machine at Go in human victory over AI

Amateur Kellin Pelrine exploited weakness in systems that have otherwise dominated board gameís grandmasters
KataGo and other Go AI's trouble counting the eyes of cyclic groups (groups surrounding an opposing group) was a known issue. In January, Pelrine became the first to cheese wins out of the weakness.

More recently, a challenge to capture all of KataGo's stones:
https://forums.online-go.com/t/eat-katagos-everything/47860
https://online-go.com/game/53421988

KataGo developer is still making progress teaching KataGo to evaluate cyclic groups by hand-curating examples.

sephiRoth IRA
Jun 13, 2007

"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality."

-Carl Sagan
How much time do you devote to go in a week? I'm trying to decide if I want to give in to paying this again. I played a few 9x9s with a friend and had a blast talking out positions, but we are on vacation right now so time isn't a factor.

But back in reality, I have both responsibilities and other hobbies and I know go requires quite a bit of focus if you want to improve.

I never have been successful without someone to drive me, a study buddy, but I also don't have a night a week to connect with an online group or whatever, let alone play an hour- long 19x19.

Ugh God what a post. Don't search this thread, I'm sure I have five posts just like this popping up once every 1-3 years....

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a.p. dent
Oct 24, 2005
i play a bunch of blitz games a day and study a lot, but one game a week seems reasonable enough to play and progress a bit. if you can't get at least one game in a week, though... is it really something you're interested in?

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