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  • Locked thread
Foehammer
Nov 8, 2005

We are invincible.



My county has a 4-week estimate on CCW processing time, so I ordered my holster last Friday. I got my CCW in the mail on Wednesday (which was only 3 weeks!) and the holster on Friday.

G19 MTAC groupthinker reporting in :)

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ArcMage
Sep 14, 2007

What is this thread?


Ramrod XTreme

AR posted:

Everything gets rearranged when I pocket carry. That's why I love cold weather and jackets - conceals the IWB better or gives me someplace to put the junk that got evicted from my pockets.

I'll probably catch hell for this, but inasmuch as I ever pocket carry I've been pocket carrying in a jacket pocket. My IWB regimen usually works out well year-round, so the pocket pistols are just a supplement.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

ArcMage posted:

I'll probably catch hell for this, but inasmuch as I ever pocket carry I've been pocket carrying in a jacket pocket. My IWB regimen usually works out well year-round, so the pocket pistols are just a supplement.

If the only place I have to carry is my jacket pocket I just use my finger instead. Pew pew.

Captain von Trapp
Jan 22, 2006

I don't like it, and I'm sorry I ever had anything to do with it.

Diver Dick posted:

Alright, I've got a situation to sort out. Hopefully some East coast goons can help me out on this one. I'm a Texas resident, and hold a Texas concealed handgun license (CHL). I'm graduating in December, and I'll be living temporarily (Jan 1-March ??) in South Carolina, then moving permanently to Virginia. Both Virginia and South Carolina honor the Texas resident CHL, I believe.

I am not a lawyer, but the Texas statutes give you 30 days from the date you're no longer living at the address printed on your license. Strictly speaking, you might well be stuck updating your address with DPS twice. The thing to do might be to just give them a call and find out what the official opinion is.

Illegal Clown
Feb 18, 2004



ArcMage posted:

I'll probably catch hell for this, but inasmuch as I ever pocket carry I've been pocket carrying in a jacket pocket. My IWB regimen usually works out well year-round, so the pocket pistols are just a supplement.

I started doing this last year in the winter time. My winter coat is a black M65 field jacket (shut up, it's warm!) and I realized I might not be able to get to my carry gun if I needed it in a hurry. I got a small pistol and a pocket holster to put in the front pocket. It works really well, especially with the cut of those pockets.

Namaste
May 5, 2007
good news for people who love bald news

Someone put my mind at ease here. I got my MTAC, and I've been wearing it around 4 o'clock and love it.

But I'm bending the poo poo out of the belt clips. Is my fat rear end going to break them?

:ohdear: It is baby's first IWB.

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



Anything will break given enough force, but I really doubt it. The 2nd-gen clips they're using now are less prone to breakage than the older style clips, and those didn't break all that often either.

Uncle Caveman
Jun 16, 2006

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.


Diver Dick posted:

Both Virginia and South Carolina honor the Texas resident CHL, I believe.
True.

quote:

...wacky firearms transportation laws or posession requirements I should be aware of?
For VA: So long as everything is unloaded and in the trunk/back of vehicle, you're fine. Hell, I'd say that since you have a valid CHL, there's even less to worry about.

VA has zero restrictions on mag capacity, folding stocks, evil totems or other such nonsense, either.

quote:

Are there registry requirements in Virginia?
None at all.

Namaste
May 5, 2007
good news for people who love bald news

Craptacular posted:

Anything will break given enough force, but I really doubt it. The 2nd-gen clips they're using now are less prone to breakage than the older style clips, and those didn't break all that often either.

I'm just really worried because it's new and cost me $80. It's still the best drat holster I've ever paid for.

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



If you did break a clip, replacement clips are $8.50.

Kodo Zoku
Mar 6, 2008


Black Stormy posted:

Here is what I know about the TLR-3: It is small, it doesn't have a replaceable endcap (so no tape switches), and I can't reach the switch without adjusting my grip when it is on my Glock. It would probably be a great light on a subcompact or something. Also, I think holster availability is smaller with the TLR-3.

I'm replying to an old post but I didn't see anyone else who had chimed in on the TLR3- I have one on my M&P compact and your summation is correct, it's great for a compact. I don't know about durability, I haven't really knocked it around too much.

I also have a raven holster for my :bustem: WEAPON SYSTEM which isn't MTAC comfy but it's not bad at all with an undershirt. I only IWB the raven, I can't find the loving OWB loops since I moved.

Drav
Jul 23, 2002

We've come a long way since that day, and we will never look back at the faded silhouette.

Was watching some of the Magpul Dynamics trailers/vids on youtube and according to beeb, Costa is using a Raven Concealment Phantom holster. Can anyone comment on them at all?

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Drav posted:

Was watching some of the Magpul Dynamics trailers/vids on youtube and according to beeb, Costa is using a Raven Concealment Phantom holster. Can anyone comment on them at all?

They are awesome.

Boner Wad
Nov 16, 2003


Does anyone have the Kaluban Cloak holster? Looks very similar to the Raven ones.

Homie S
Aug 6, 2001

This is what it means

infrared35 posted:

They are awesome.

Also the only riveted holster that has been approved by my work. Sadly mine won't be showing up for at least another two months.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Homie S posted:

Also the only riveted holster that has been approved by my work. Sadly mine won't be showing up for at least another two months.

Must be nice to work for an agency that updates its approved equipment list more than once every ten years or so. :(

Edit: Or updates its qual course more than once every forty years.

bipolarbear
Jun 15, 2005

Droppin the Funk Bomb!

OK, so I've read the thread, and it's been great, I know a lot more now. I understand TFR's position regarding Glock 19's and I'm not opposed to owning one, I think I'd rather have an S&W J-Frame. I'm assuming .357 is roughly comparable to 9mm. I understand most encounters end up being maybe 10 yards at most, so even though I don't feel comfortably accurate with a .40 much beyond 20 yards, I would be willing to go even that high for CCW purposes. The really lovely proviso here is that the only handgun I've shot is a .40 Glock subcompact. I'm definitely not buying anything until I've had satisfactory trigger time with a few more calibers.

I still have the perception that with a shrouded or concealed hammer a revolver is some how 'safer' from ADs than a semi-auto. I think it goes back to Hunter's Safety when they told me that semi-auto pistols are the most dangerous things in the world and they go off all the time and at crime scenes you'll sometimes see cops carrying their pistols held by only two fingers pinched on the trigger guard because they are so unreliable (I'm not making this up).

Please, pick apart my flaws, tell me where I'm wrong. I need to know.

Black Stormy
Apr 1, 2003



bipolarbear posted:


I still have the perception that with a shrouded or concealed hammer a revolver is some how 'safer' from ADs than a semi-auto. I think it goes back to Hunter's Safety when they told me that semi-auto pistols are the most dangerous things in the world and they go off all the time and at crime scenes you'll sometimes see cops carrying their pistols held by only two fingers pinched on the trigger guard because they are so unreliable (I'm not making this up).


This is the most retarded thing I have ever heard.

.357 Mag, out of a snubby, has way more recoil than anything in 9mm or 40. You will not want to take it to the range and practice with it for hours, so it will sit, and you will not be proficient with it.

charliebravo77
Jun 11, 2003



bipolarbear posted:

I think it goes back to Hunter's Safety when they told me that semi-auto pistols are the most dangerous things in the world and they go off all the time and at crime scenes you'll sometimes see cops carrying their pistols held by only two fingers pinched on the trigger guard because they are so unreliable (I'm not making this up).

I think the only reasonable explanation for this is that a cop might carry it like that so as to not disturb fingerprints that may be on the grip and slide.

kuffs
Mar 29, 2007

Projectile Dysfunction


bipolarbear posted:

I still have the perception that with a shrouded or concealed hammer a revolver is some how 'safer' from ADs than a semi-auto. I think it goes back to Hunter's Safety when they told me that semi-auto pistols are the most dangerous things in the world and they go off all the time and at crime scenes you'll sometimes see cops carrying their pistols held by only two fingers pinched on the trigger guard because they are so unreliable (I'm not making this up).

Except for the explanation that charliebravo77 posted above, that's probably the least safe way to carry a pistol ever. Muzzle pointing in an unpredictable direction, not a whole lot of grip in two fingers, and putting fingers in the trigger guard when you're not going to shoot.

poopgiggle
Feb 7, 2006

it isn't easy being a cross dominate shooter.




Snubnose revolvers are difficult to shoot, in general, for the following reasons:

1. The sight radius is short
2. The DA trigger pull is heavy
3. The sights are horrible
4. Recoil is a bitch because of the light weight (good luck shooting full-house 357 our of an Airweight!)
5. The grips aren't horribly ergonomic (S&W has fixed this somewhat by making boot grips standard)

The ONLY good thing about a snubnose revolver is that it is practical to carry anywhere, wearing (almost) anything. I love my snubbie but it's not a great primary carry gun.

Any modern pistol is safe to carry if you have a good holster and you aren't a giant idiot w/r/t gun safety.

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

charliebravo77 posted:

I think the only reasonable explanation for this is that a cop might carry it like that so as to not disturb fingerprints that may be on the grip and slide.

That makes sense from an evidence perspective. Unfamiliarity might also enter into it -- it's kind of funny to watch them figure out how to clear a gun they've just found.

poopgiggle posted:

2. The DA trigger pull is heavy

As opposed to a semi-auto's DA trigger pull? It depends. My GP100's DA trigger pull blows, but the snubbies with shaved hammers that I've fondled (An SP101 and an LCR -- I've never had a chance with a J-Frame) have lighter springs designed for DAO usage. They're long, but smooth.

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007




thermobollocks posted:

As opposed to a semi-auto's DA trigger pull? It depends. My GP100's DA trigger pull blows, but the snubbies with shaved hammers that I've fondled (An SP101 and an LCR -- I've never had a chance with a J-Frame) have lighter springs designed for DAO usage. They're long, but smooth.

They both break in well, but Ruger revolver triggers, out of the box, feel a TON nicer than S&W's these days. Maybe it's just me.

Micromancer
Apr 17, 2002

He went out to the store
and when he got back
Roll-marks said .22 Short, jack.
If anything I could say that
this gun was rare
Its covered it sweat,
toilet water, and hair


bipolarbear posted:

Please, pick apart my flaws, tell me where I'm wrong. I need to know.

I have a G23 and a G27. I've shot both. You have fired the G27 and I'm here to tell you the G23 is a completely different experience. It's basically a G19 in .40 instead of 9mm. I bought it when I was retarded though. The increased capacity of 9mm is now more desireable to me than the increased wound potential of the individual rounds of the .40 .

I think the recoil is identical between .40 and 9mm though so maybe I'm not the best person to get advice from :v:


Taking all of this into account, I STILL carry a G23 in rtf2 as my main carry and love it so completely I can't even imagine switching to something else.

Kodo Zoku
Mar 6, 2008


thermobollocks posted:

They're long, but smooth.

awwwwwww yeeeaaaaaah


Micromancer posted:

I think the recoil is identical between .40 and 9mm though so maybe I'm not the best person to get advice from :v:

I've only shot a few .40s but I didn't find that there was a big difference in recoil, either. I carry a compact 9mm.

EDIT:

Drav posted:

Was watching some of the Magpul Dynamics trailers/vids on youtube and according to beeb, Costa is using a Raven Concealment Phantom holster. Can anyone comment on them at all?

As I stated in the post RIGHT ABOVE YOURS I really like mine. It's not hybrid comfy but retention, build, and customization are all top notch. I think someone else pointed out earlier that if you get one made for a light, the retention point is on the light, so it might not be the best idea to carry without the light on it. I use mine IWB primarily.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Kodo Zoku posted:

I've only shot a few .40s but I didn't find that there was a big difference in recoil, either.

Weirdos. I've always hated the way that .40 feels compared to just about anything else. And there are some .40 loads that I particularly hate, even when compared to very similar loadings from other companies.

I feel more confident shooting a 9mm because I feel I can shoot it more accurately and more quickly. I suppose it's a wash, if you go by IPSC scoring though. The points I gain for stepping up to Major by shooting a .40 are all evened out by my slower split times and my decreased precision.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


infrared35 posted:

Weirdos. I've always hated the way that .40 feels compared to just about anything else. And there are some .40 loads that I particularly hate, even when compared to very similar loadings from other companies.

I feel more confident shooting a 9mm because I feel I can shoot it more accurately and more quickly. I suppose it's a wash, if you go by IPSC scoring though. The points I gain for stepping up to Major by shooting a .40 are all evened out by my slower split times and my decreased precision.

I would far rather make major with .45 IMO.

I carry the 19 in 9mm because 9mm is hella cheaper and way easier to shoot than .40 and 9mm will kill people so i dont think about caliber too hard.

i did however just get a Glock 21 to make major in IPSC however so perhaps my priorities in pistol buying arent tactical enough.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Kommienzuspadt posted:

I would far rather make major with .45 IMO.

I carry the 19 in 9mm because 9mm is hella cheaper and way easier to shoot than .40 and 9mm will kill people so i dont think about caliber too hard.

i did however just get a Glock 21 to make major in IPSC however so perhaps my priorities in pistol buying arent tactical enough.

I'm with you. In fact I'm looking for a longer slide and barrel for my P220 so I can shoot that in Canada next year. :coal:

Otherwise I'm resigned to using the Glock 22.

bipolarbear
Jun 15, 2005

Droppin the Funk Bomb!

Black Stormy posted:

This is the most retarded thing I have ever heard.

.357 Mag, out of a snubby, has way more recoil than anything in 9mm or 40. You will not want to take it to the range and practice with it for hours, so it will sit, and you will not be proficient with it.

I know it's retarded, it's just like this thing I heard when I was a kid first learning about firearms, and I have trouble shaking it.

I was under the impression that .357 was roughly comparable to 9mm. I keep going back and forth between a snubby of some sort and a compact 9mm. Size is a big concern for me, so for a while I was seriously eying Taurus' pocket 9mm, but it's a loving Taurus. I feel undergunned with a .380 plus ammo is a bit hard to come by, and expensive as well. Glock sub-coms are an option, but they're not my favorite. A G19 is something I'd like to own, but I'd only want to carry that during winter, and even that's a stretch. I don't know what to do.

poopgiggle posted:

(good luck shooting full-house 357 our of an Airweight!)

I was definitely not planning on getting an Airweight. I'm surprised to see so much opposition to S&W snubbies. I have seen the 642 get lots of love earlier on in the thread.

Schigolch
Apr 30, 2008

Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the Lamb, make thee?


bipolarbear posted:

I know it's retarded, it's just like this thing I heard when I was a kid first learning about firearms, and I have trouble shaking it.

I was under the impression that .357 was roughly comparable to 9mm. I keep going back and forth between a snubby of some sort and a compact 9mm. Size is a big concern for me, so for a while I was seriously eying Taurus' pocket 9mm, but it's a loving Taurus. I feel undergunned with a .380 plus ammo is a bit hard to come by, and expensive as well. Glock sub-coms are an option, but they're not my favorite. A G19 is something I'd like to own, but I'd only want to carry that during winter, and even that's a stretch. I don't know what to do.


I was definitely not planning on getting an Airweight. I'm surprised to see so much opposition to S&W snubbies. I have seen the 642 get lots of love earlier on in the thread.

The opposition is not to snubbies, there is plenty of love for them around here. Blackstormy's reaction is to your stated perception that they are less safe, which is wrong.

Get a 642, practice with .38 special, carry .357 or even .38 +P.

It is absolutely true that a day at the range with .357 out of a snubby will not be the funnest, but you don't *have* to only shoot .357 out of it for practice.

bipolarbear
Jun 15, 2005

Droppin the Funk Bomb!

That's part of what drew me towards the .357 was it's versatility. Also, .38 isn't a bad carry caliber as I understand it. From what I've read it was the standard carry caliber for most officers before everyone switched over to 9mm. I understand .357 might leave my palm red, From what I've read most snubbies tend to be kind of snappy and seem to give lots of people grief on the webbing of their hand. Apparently that's why you'll find so many decent ones littering the shelves of pawn shops across America.

bipolarbear fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Nov 25, 2010

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

9mm (124gr.) out of a 2" test barrel: 900-1000 FPS

.357 (125gr.) out of a 2" test barrel: 950-1050 FPS

Not as big a difference as I would have figured.

However, when you go to the "real world" and measure .357 out of an actual 2" revolver, you get the two inches of barrel plus the length of the cylinder. As a result:

1150-1250 FPS - a significant gain in energy over the 9mm.

So yeah, if you're planning on shooting .357, aim for a steel frame gun rather than an airweight. Airweights with full-house loads are punishing. Even a .38 +P isn't fun to fire for very long.

bipolarbear
Jun 15, 2005

Droppin the Funk Bomb!

Yeah, I read an interview with Ayoob shooting the LCR at the Shot Show or something and he mentioned how he was surprised by how much his hand didn't hurt after shooting it. They definitely carry a bad rep, but there's no way I'd ever go for titanium or all that jazz in a pocket snub.

poopgiggle
Feb 7, 2006

it isn't easy being a cross dominate shooter.




bipolarbear posted:

I was definitely not planning on getting an Airweight. I'm surprised to see so much opposition to S&W snubbies. I have seen the 642 get lots of love earlier on in the thread.

You said this:

quote:

Please, pick apart my flaws, tell me where I'm wrong. I need to know.

Your flaw is that you're going to use a hammerless or shrouded hammer snubnose as a primary carry gun because you think it's safer somehow. That's the flaw and I'm picking it apart.

Another flaw is this: snubnose revolvers are what happens when you sacrifice EVERYTHING in order to make the gun more concealable. If I need to carry in a pair of pajama pants and an undershirt, I can make that happen with my J-frame and a pocket holster. It is not, however, an ideal primary gun for reasons I already listed.

E: My J-frame is often my primary carry, but that's because I haven't saved up enough yet for a M&P 9c or some other small-ish auto to bridge the gap between "can't conceal anything other than a J-frame" clothes and "can comfortably conceal a P6" clothes. It's not an ideal situation.

I guess if you want to just have one gun that will let you carry wearing anything from a swimsuit to a winter jacket, a snubnose would be the way to go. Check the snubnose thread because there's good information on carry ammo. Note that nothing short of 38+P or Buffalo Bore's voodoo 38 Special loads will give you primary carry ballistics out of a 2" barrel.

poopgiggle fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Nov 26, 2010

bipolarbear
Jun 15, 2005

Droppin the Funk Bomb!

It seems like a snubnose just has a bunch of flaws no matter how you cut it. Though I guess it's not unrealistic to buy a 642 or a similar model, and have the hammer filed back a bit. Honestly, the stuff about the hammer catching never was a huge concern for me. I understand why people sometimes opt for the shrouded and concealed hammers, but I'm skeptical as to how often those actually catch.

I'd be willing to deal with a semi auto as long it's rather simple to clean and operate, and isn't too big. Honestly the Taurus 709 is really what I'm looking for in terms of size, but I've never heard anything good about it online, at gunshops, etc. Also, it's a Taurus. I've seen a bit of noise about the Walther PPK which looks a bit smaller than the G19, so maybe that's a better direction to go.

rifles
Oct 8, 2007
is this thing working

bipolarbear posted:

It seems like a snubnose just has a bunch of flaws no matter how you cut it. Though I guess it's not unrealistic to buy a 642 or a similar model, and have the hammer filed back a bit. Honestly, the stuff about the hammer catching never was a huge concern for me. I understand why people sometimes opt for the shrouded and concealed hammers, but I'm skeptical as to how often those actually catch.

I'd be willing to deal with a semi auto as long it's rather simple to clean and operate, and isn't too big. Honestly the Taurus 709 is really what I'm looking for in terms of size, but I've never heard anything good about it online, at gunshops, etc. Also, it's a Taurus. I've seen a bit of noise about the Walther PPK which looks a bit smaller than the G19, so maybe that's a better direction to go.

They catch often enough that for a carry revolver you don't want a hammer on it. You should be practicing with it with a double action pull, and the hammer should never even be touched if you pull it out to defend yourself. For a carry j frame, the benefits of an exposed hammer aren't enough to outweigh the snagging issues, which are especially a problem if you carry IWB or pocket carry, where you can't get your cover garments out of the way enough to guarantee that the hammer won't snag.

bipolarbear
Jun 15, 2005

Droppin the Funk Bomb!

gently caress. I guess that means I'd be stuck with DAO, which is not fun at all. Revolvers take you far enough off target as is.

poopgiggle
Feb 7, 2006

it isn't easy being a cross dominate shooter.




bipolarbear posted:

It seems like a snubnose just has a bunch of flaws no matter how you cut it. Though I guess it's not unrealistic to buy a 642 or a similar model, and have the hammer filed back a bit. Honestly, the stuff about the hammer catching never was a huge concern for me. I understand why people sometimes opt for the shrouded and concealed hammers, but I'm skeptical as to how often those actually catch.

I also own a J-frame clone with a regular hammer. It snags on everything when I draw it.

quote:

I'd be willing to deal with a semi auto as long it's rather simple to clean and operate, and isn't too big. Honestly the Taurus 709 is really what I'm looking for in terms of size, but I've never heard anything good about it online, at gunshops, etc. Also, it's a Taurus. I've seen a bit of noise about the Walther PPK which looks a bit smaller than the G19, so maybe that's a better direction to go.

If I were you I'd stay away from the PPK. They're not drop-safe (maybe they fixed this, but I doubt it), and they're chambered in .380. I haven't shot one in a while, but as I recall the DA trigger pull sucks and the slide tends to bite your hand.

There are so many good, tiny 9mm and 40 guns now I don't know why you're not researching those. They are priced in the same ballpark as the PPK.

E:

quote:

gently caress. I guess that means I'd be stuck with DAO, which is not fun at all. Revolvers take you far enough off target as is.

wtf are you trolling?

Black Stormy
Apr 1, 2003



poopgiggle posted:

wtf are you trolling?

That, or just seriously doesn't know what the gently caress.

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rifles
Oct 8, 2007
is this thing working

bipolarbear posted:

gently caress. I guess that means I'd be stuck with DAO, which is not fun at all. Revolvers take you far enough off target as is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgl8VuX0LuY#t=7m18s

It's all about the trigger release, baby.

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