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poopgiggle
Feb 7, 2006

it isn't easy being a cross dominate shooter.




Micromancer posted:

You'll also note that the upper range listed meets your own at $400

My point is that your upper bound is barely above the actual lower bound for good-condition used Glocks.

quote:

and lastly I really don't know why anyone would carry an XD when they can get something without a grip safety and less general hate for the same price or less hth

I agree that the grip safety is less-than-optimal but when I've shot XDs it was never a problem. I really can't see how you could take a firing grip on it without deactivating the safety without actively trying to.

Also, I'm not saying "don't get a Glock." I'm saying "don't get a Glock if there's another pistol whose ergonomics you prefer." If you can point an XD more naturally than a Glock, I submit that getting hits quicker 99.9% of the time is more important than preparing for that .1% of the time where the grip safety is a problem somehow.

And why would I care about some Internet forum hivemind's general hate for something?

E: worded something wrong

poopgiggle fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Nov 27, 2010

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Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



bipolarbear posted:

I kinda thought Glocks had rails now, but I rarely know what I'm talking about.

Glocks have LCIs too. Nevermind the whole idea of an LCI is stupid, but they have them.

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007




bipolarbear posted:

My buddy in the Marines has this to say


I kinda thought Glocks had rails now, but I rarely know what I'm talking about.

They do. Maybe the rail is a touch different or something but yeah in 99% of cases, rails are rails.

HATE TROLL TIM
Dec 14, 2006


Anyone have experience with the S&W Bodyguard .380? I'm thinking of picking one up for my new CC piece.

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007




timb posted:

Anyone have experience with the S&W Bodyguard .380? I'm thinking of picking one up for my new CC piece.

I tried one out. it's nice and small but I don't like that laser. That's just me though. The external safety is completely pointless but it seems really hard to engage so at least there's that.

roymorrison
Jul 26, 2005


bipolarbear posted:

My buddy in the Marines has this to say

quote:

The thing with the glock is that the design is excellent. It's been excellent since it came out. But it's the same gun. There really haven't been many improvements, and it's starting to get left behind.

Newer polymer autoloaders like the XD and M&P series have definite advantages over the glock. For one the grip is much comfortable and does a better job of staying in your hand. There are also inserts to taylor it specifically to your hand.

They also have feauture's like a "loaded chamber indicator", a 1913 rail for accessories, and in my opinion a better trigger pull.



wtf. Glocks have rails, every gun has an LCI, it's called a press check, and Gen. IV glocks have adjustable backstraps, which who gives a poo poo about anyways. Grip comfort is subjective as gently caress so that argument doesn't work. Also the statement that either of those guns has a better trigger pull than a Glock is laughable. What does your buddy do in the Marines?

The best combat shooters in the world shoot Glock 22's with lights. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know or is lying. That's a pretty big Glock endorsement.

For the record I conceal carry a G17 in a Comptac C-tac.

edit: I also wear these with a Comptac leather belt with kydex inserts, works great. I'm comfortable wearing a regular belt but I do enough shooting to justify always wearing a shooting belt, and I don't like looking like an rear end in a top hat with a loving cobra buckle while I'm hanging around not shooting.

roymorrison fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Nov 27, 2010

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Jesus, arguing about the "best handgun" is loving retarded.

If you like the ergos, it's reliable, and can shoot effectively with it, that's the "best handgun" for you. That's the whole reason why we tell everyone to go to a rental range and try poo poo out.

Me, I hate Glock angle and find the triggers really underwhelming, so Glocks aren't for me. That dosent' make them bad guns, though.

bipolarbear
Jun 15, 2005

Droppin the Funk Bomb!

Also, maybe I'm wrong again, but isn't the trigger pull usually adjustable in terms of weight on most guns Glocks included?

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


poopgiggle posted:

My point is that your upper bound is barely above the actual lower bound for good-condition used Glocks.


yeah Glocks are more like 400-450 used all told.

also I really didnt mean for this to become some silly argument about glocks. He did say tha he was looking at either 1. a subcompact glock 2. a .38 snub 3. a .380 pocket gun, and if he's looking at IWB carry I think that choice #1 is the best.

Go to a range and buy 150 rounds of 9mm and rent a glock, if you don't like it then give it back and see if they'll let you finish out your range time with an XD or an M&P. But if you DO like glocks I recommend them simply because (as this shitfest has probably demonstrated) a lot of people really like them and there is a lot of aftermarket support for them.

I am pretty sure all of that is very uncontroversial, feel free to gang-rape me if any of it isn't.

Scarecrow411
Nov 14, 2004

FREE FUNSTER


roymorrison posted:

wtf. Glocks have rails, every gun has an LCI...

Primary bullet observation port. Just because it's potentially lethal to use doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


bipolarbear posted:

Also, maybe I'm wrong again, but isn't the trigger pull usually adjustable in terms of weight on most guns Glocks included?

Weight is almost always adjustable - I am not familiar with much beyond Glocks and 1911s but on Glocks you can swap out the connector or the trigger spring to futz with the trigger. There are plenty of aftermarket parts out there that allow you to do so. They will *not* make them a non glock trigger, so there will still be "spongy" glock takeup before the break. 1911s you can swap out all kinds of springs (main spring primarily) but again I am too lazy to gently caress with mine so I keep it stock.

Also, if you are going to carry it, I would recommend staying with the stock trigger, whichever gun you end up buying, so try to see which gun you enjoy shooting most at the range as that is the trigger you will (more or less) be likely to end up with.

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



Scarecrow411 posted:

Primary bullet observation port. Just because it's potentially lethal to use doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

No, this.

http://www.ghostinc.com/product/GLO_1895/GLOCK-9mm-LCI-Extractor.html

bipolarbear
Jun 15, 2005

Droppin the Funk Bomb!

Thanks. Spongy is the perfect way to describe it, and that's really the only thing that annoyed me about shooting a Glock. Though if I got to shoot more than a clipmagazine or two I think I could get used to it and learn where the "activation point" is or whatever it's called.

bipolarbear fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Nov 28, 2010

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


bipolarbear posted:

Thanks. Spongy is the perfect way to describe it, and that's really the only thing that annoyed me about shooting a Glock. Though if I got to shoot more than a clip or two I think I could get used to it and learn where the "activation point" is or whatever it's called.

Haha, thats called the "reset." and IMO the reset is the KEY to shooting Glocks well -actually, to shooting all guns well, but in particular Glocks.

The reset describes the travel from the fully depressed trigger to the point where it is ready to be depressed again in order to discharge a round. This is important because this distance is the minimum distance that your finger has to travel in order to fire a second, and for good shooters, it will be the only forwards distance covered by their trigger finger after the first trigger pull.

By only shooting from the reset, you can effectively completely minimize the traveling your trigger finger does, allowing you more accurate and rapid follow up shots and minimizing the movement of your sight picture while you are pulling the trigger.

On this point I will allow the full force of my glock fanboyism to show through - Glocks have the best stock trigger reset of any pistol that I have ever fired outside of a 1911. I find that on SIGs and XDs and especially H&Ks the reset is long, indefinite, and does not particularly "help" me any more than their normal SA trigger pulls.

On Glocks, it only takes a very small amount of forward travel before the trigger is ready to be depressed again, and the pull from the reset to discharge is like pushing a button - stiff with a very obvious break. Honestly of all their features it is this that sells me on Glocks so heavily, otherwise I would be pretty much completely indifferent towards them as guns.

When you go to try out all of these pistols, do this -

Fire one magazine through the gun, whichever one it is, and see how you like it.

Then, load another magazine. This time, aim at the target, and very slowly and deliberately pull the trigger.

KEEP YOUR FINGER ALL THE WAY BACK. Your gun should've gone off so you should (hopefully) be looking at a target with a hole through it.

Then, after a few seconds, SLOWLY AND DELIBERATELY allow the trigger to travel forwards. At some point, you should feel a "click". You may even hear one. At this point, stop allowing the trigger to move forwards and just hold it there for a moment. Then, depress the trigger again. It should discharge a second time, though on some firearms the initial "click" is deceptive and you may get nothing. If that is the case, slowly allow it to move forwards some more.

Once you think you've reliably found the reset point, load a 3rd mag and try to fire all of your shots after the initial first round using only the reset. Do not allow the trigger to travel any more forwards than it needs to. This will greatly improve your accuracy and the ease with which you fire the pistol, Glock or otherwise.

Kommienzuspadt fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Nov 27, 2010

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007




bipolarbear posted:

Though if I got to shoot more than a clip or two

magazine

needknees
Apr 4, 2006

Oh. My.

Kommienzuspadt posted:

My biggest problem with revolvers is that they are pretty tough to fully maintain by yourself... cylinder timing and that sort of thing scares me. Most semi-autos, especially modern ones, are really easy to do a lot of work on yourself. I don't know if I'd trust myself to maintain a revolver beyond cleaning it...

Having put a SHITLOAD of full power rounds through two Smith 625s and little puny babby rounds through my 627 I can say without a doubt that if your gun goes out of time with any kind of reasonable use it was a massive piece of poo poo from the get go straight out of the factory. Or, you're abusing the hell out of it. Spinning the cylinder and flipping it shut, absolutely slamming the cylinder closed, partially cocking the gun and spinning the cylinder, etc. will all cause damage to the cylinder stop and notches that can make the gun go out of time. Don't do this. Seriously.

Revos are not that complicated once you kinda understand whats going on inside of one. The first time I popped a sideplate off my 625 I was definitely going :drat:. After collecting myself and playing around with the guts there's really not much to be scared of in there. And realistically you shouldn't have to take the sideplate off with any regularity. The insides do not need to be cleaned very frequently at all, and not cleaning them isn't going to hurt reliability much if at all. If the trigger is getting heavier or grittier it might be time for a serious cleaning but that's about it. I do a detail strip and thorough cleaning once a season on the 625s and have not had any issues, even with thousands and thousands of rounds through them.

That said, glocks are pretty great. Kommienzuspadt if you are looking for a holster for your G21 I may be selling a CTAC...

poopgiggle
Feb 7, 2006

it isn't easy being a cross dominate shooter.




Kommienzuspadt posted:

also I really didnt mean for this to become some silly argument about glocks. He did say tha he was looking at either 1. a subcompact glock 2. a .38 snub 3. a .380 pocket gun, and if he's looking at IWB carry I think that choice #1 is the best.

My point was that he seemed to be limiting himself to a Glock, when there are acceptable substitute guns out there if you don't like Glocks.

bipolarbear posted:

Thanks. Spongy is the perfect way to describe it, and that's really the only thing that annoyed me about shooting a Glock. Though if I got to shoot more than a clip or two I think I could get used to it and learn where the "activation point" is or whatever it's called.

Keep in mind that any pistol is going to have drawbacks with trigger pull. A Glock/M&P/XD has a mediocre trigger, but it's the same every time. DA/SA autos like Sigs have a heavier pull for your first shot but a good trigger pull after that; that transition gives some people trouble. A SAO pistol will have a good trigger every time but you need to train to click the safety off as part of your draw.

tl;dr all guns have pros and cons, and it's possible that the Glock trigger sucks the least for you.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


needknees posted:

Having put a SHITLOAD of full power rounds through two Smith 625s and little puny babby rounds through my 627 I can say without a doubt that if your gun goes out of time with any kind of reasonable use it was a massive piece of poo poo from the get go straight out of the factory. Or, you're abusing the hell out of it. Spinning the cylinder and flipping it shut, absolutely slamming the cylinder closed, partially cocking the gun and spinning the cylinder, etc. will all cause damage to the cylinder stop and notches that can make the gun go out of time. Don't do this. Seriously.

Revos are not that complicated once you kinda understand whats going on inside of one. The first time I popped a sideplate off my 625 I was definitely going :drat:. After collecting myself and playing around with the guts there's really not much to be scared of in there. And realistically you shouldn't have to take the sideplate off with any regularity. The insides do not need to be cleaned very frequently at all, and not cleaning them isn't going to hurt reliability much if at all. If the trigger is getting heavier or grittier it might be time for a serious cleaning but that's about it. I do a detail strip and thorough cleaning once a season on the 625s and have not had any issues, even with thousands and thousands of rounds through them.

That said, glocks are pretty great. Kommienzuspadt if you are looking for a holster for your G21 I may be selling a CTAC...

I believe that. I have very limited experience with revolvers, so I am really just expressing my lack of comfort with them, but I am sure that if you get a good one they are very reliable weapons. Still for IWB carry I think a semi-auto is probably the best choice. I still am toying with the idea of getting some kind of revolver for pocket carry but that is many moons from now after splashing down for the 21!

I'll think about the CTAC, though I will probably only carry the 21 OWB given its ginormous width...

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

Kommienzuspadt posted:

find that on SIGs and XDs and especially H&Ks the reset is long, indefinite, and does not particularly "help" me any more than their normal SA trigger pulls.

A couple of the Sig models have the short-reset trigger (SRT), including my 229 Elite. It is faaaantastic. The local shooting sports president flipped out about it when he checked out the gun, and he shoots a Glock 22 for comps. Obviously this doesn't mean anything for the base models or your comparison.

Micromancer
Apr 17, 2002

He went out to the store
and when he got back
Roll-marks said .22 Short, jack.
If anything I could say that
this gun was rare
Its covered it sweat,
toilet water, and hair


you know as well as I do if you hunt hard locally you can score a sub $400 good condition Glock. I also really like the triggers on all three of my glocks and have done nothing to them. I like where they break, the tension is easy to manage and consistent.

My only real point about all of this was that since he was considering a 26 and might go iwb that getting the slide version mtac easily left room for expansion and options. Removing either the 26 or the slide mtac negates everything else after that.

Welcome to the coalition JC. Might as well start doing coke.

Edit: you know what come to think of it including shipping and ffl you can usually get some kind of glock with night sights from summitgunbroker for $400 in hand.

Micromancer fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Nov 28, 2010

bipolarbear
Jun 15, 2005

Droppin the Funk Bomb!

Speaking of night sights, how long do they last? I asked at one gun shop and the guy behind the counter didn't really know, but he talked it up to sound like you virtually never have to replace them.

Micromancer
Apr 17, 2002

He went out to the store
and when he got back
Roll-marks said .22 Short, jack.
If anything I could say that
this gun was rare
Its covered it sweat,
toilet water, and hair


for the most part they do if you get the kind that made from the same material glowing watch faces were you just have to remember to keep the gun under a bright light when not in use


That is a lot of words for I don't know but I think we understand each other

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

itchy itchy itchy itchy

Micromancer posted:

for the most part they do if you get the kind that made from the same material glowing watch faces were you just have to remember to keep the gun under a bright light when not in use


That is a lot of words for I don't know but I think we understand each other

That's phosphorous based stuff. It kinda sucks. Tritium based should last 10-12 years from new, and doesn't need any sort of charging.

bipolarbear
Jun 15, 2005

Droppin the Funk Bomb!

Yeah, Tritium is what I was thinking of. As I recall it's basically always on which is exactly what I'm after.

100% Dundee
Oct 11, 2004


bipolarbear posted:

Yeah, Tritium is what I was thinking of. As I recall it's basically always on which is exactly what I'm after.

Yeah tritium is always on, doesnt require recharging under a light like the other person noted above about the phosphorous based stuff and has a half-life of about 12 years. So in 6 years your nightsights will be around 75% brightness, then at 12 years they will be around 50% brightness, in theory.

bipolarbear
Jun 15, 2005

Droppin the Funk Bomb!

Micromancer is just some other person I'll have you know! He kind of a big deal.

bipolarbear fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Nov 28, 2010

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


I love that you can GIS his name and see all the glory. The best is the thong shot, with a close 2nd to one where someone shopped Rosie O'Donnell's head on his body.

poopgiggle
Feb 7, 2006

it isn't easy being a cross dominate shooter.




roymorrison posted:

The best combat shooters in the world shoot Glock 22's with lights. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know or is lying. That's a pretty big Glock endorsement.

Who are these best combat shooters you speak of?

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

itchy itchy itchy itchy

poopgiggle posted:

Who are these best combat shooters you speak of?

The US Marines. :clint: They use Glocks as targets.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


Propagandalf posted:

The US Marines. :clint: They use Glocks as targets.

Really they are just proving the photoelectric effect by ejecting electrons off the surface of the Glock slide.


science joke

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


AR posted:

A couple of the Sig models have the short-reset trigger (SRT), including my 229 Elite. It is faaaantastic. The local shooting sports president flipped out about it when he checked out the gun, and he shoots a Glock 22 for comps. Obviously this doesn't mean anything for the base models or your comparison.

I bet that would be fantastic. I will admit that there are far superior triggers out there to Glocks - CZs come to mind after 1911s, and I have enjoyed SIGs in the past, especially the 220 - but for a stock trigger on a cheap-o pistol, I am always very impressed by them.

I plan on buying a 34 for competition/ concealed carry one of these days but the 21 was there first, and its SOBIG i couldn't help myself.

Micromancer
Apr 17, 2002

He went out to the store
and when he got back
Roll-marks said .22 Short, jack.
If anything I could say that
this gun was rare
Its covered it sweat,
toilet water, and hair


bipolarbear posted:

Micromancer is just some other person I'll have you know! He kind of a big deal.

You could say that ... pics 14 and 26 in the last link

foghorn
Oct 8, 2006

Haters gunna hate.


Micromancer posted:

You could say that ... pics 14 and 26 in the last link

Google search: "guy with guns"

First hit.

Image search it's hits 1-5, 9, 11, 13, 19...

BTW, we gotta get together and shoot sometime, especially now that I live closer to TN...

Micromancer
Apr 17, 2002

He went out to the store
and when he got back
Roll-marks said .22 Short, jack.
If anything I could say that
this gun was rare
Its covered it sweat,
toilet water, and hair


Next organized range day is last weekend in Feb you have plenty of time to plan. We went today the few of us in this area.

Edit: hearing of it was nothing like actually doing it god drat that's awesome.

Edit 2: God it's even better when you click on them to see the places they've been used I'm loving this.

Edit 3: Re: http://live105.radio.com/2010/03/11/ever-have-a-facebook-hookup/#comment-10113

quote:

Your comment is awaiting moderation.

Nadine, hit me up sometime now that the worst part is over. Also, Amygo how did you know exactly that I really donít have them in my FB profile pics but my myspace does? http://www.myspace.com/glockcockandrock

Micromancer fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Nov 29, 2010

Mr. 47
Jul 8, 2008

Well, I guess I'll just go fuck myself, then.

I'm a little bit late to the conversation, but for a CCW, I absolutely love my LCP. The weight and handling are about the best I've ever found in a pocket pistol, and with the after market Pears grip installed, it fits my hand perfectly. As always, of course, your results may vary.

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

Do you guys have an opinion on the DeSantis clip grips?

kuffs
Mar 29, 2007

Projectile Dysfunction


No trigger guard makes it pretty risky. Same reason why the Clipdraw is stupid on Glocks. (Though they do have a hokey workaround for it http://www.clipdraw.com/store/index.php?rn=396&action=show_detail)

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

kuffs posted:

No trigger guard makes it pretty risky. Same reason why the Clipdraw is stupid on Glocks. (Though they do have a hokey workaround for it http://www.clipdraw.com/store/index.php?rn=396&action=show_detail)

Jesus. Safeties have officially come full circle.
I figured the pros were that you could wear it with just about anything, and the cons would involve poor retention and you'll shoot your asscheek off, but I'd like to see if someone's used it.

poopgiggle
Feb 7, 2006

it isn't easy being a cross dominate shooter.




How is that any different from Barami Hip-grips?

NINJA EDIT: Except these are presumably being made for something other than revolvers.

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bipolarbear
Jun 15, 2005

Droppin the Funk Bomb!

Is CT a waste of time on a G26?

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