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Acer
Dec 20, 2004
Inter arma silent leges.

I'm looking for something ultra-compact to carry during the summer months in Florida... the wardrobe requirements for a 5" 1911 make it pretty uncomfortable to be outside for any more than about 10 minutes. I had my eye on a walther PPS in .40, or a Glock 36 (.45).

I like the idea of the .45, just because that is one less caliber of ammo I would have to buy. However, neither one of these guns really screams "BUY ME". I'd prefer something SAO, because that's what I'm used to carrying / practicing with.

Any suggestions for a SAO sub-compact about the same size as a PPS? Price-wise I'm thinking around $800 would be about the max I'm looking to spend.

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infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

If you're not completely set on the .45 ACP idea, there's the Springfield EMP. You could probably find one in your price range.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


Colt also makes a compact .45 1911 style handgun, the Defender, that is pretty decent. i CCWed one that belongs to doublethink for a week or so when i got locked out of my gunsafe :shobon:

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

I liked the idea of the Glock 36 a lot more than I liked the actual gun for what it's worth.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

If you really want a small .45, check out the Kahr PM45. I ran some IDPA stages with one and it was actually a great little gun. Very accurate and manageable. Just be prepared, if you buy one brand new, to fire a couple hundred rounds through it to make sure it breaks in okay.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


AR posted:

I liked the idea of the Glock 36 a lot more than I liked the actual gun for what it's worth.

what didn't you like about it?

needknees
Apr 4, 2006

Oh. My.

infrared35 posted:

If you're not completely set on the .45 ACP idea, there's the Springfield EMP. You could probably find one in your price range.

EMPs are a loving joy to shoot, I can definitely say that.

How "ultra compact" are you looking for? The PM45 is a great suggestion as well, the G36 really isn't all that small, and much beyond that you're into different calibers or bigger or doublestack guns.

MrKatharsis
Nov 29, 2003

feel the bern


The Sig P238 is essentially an ultra compact 1911. You'd have to settle for .380 though.

AR
Oct 26, 2005
a beautiful collision

Kommienzuspadt posted:

what didn't you like about it?

I rented it and shot it side by side with a Glock 30 while I was trying to decide on a .45 for carry. I'm 6'3" and my hands are average for my height - not giant - and the 36 just didn't fit quite right. I think it may have just been the Glock profile in a single stack didn't work well with my hands.

I tried to keep the mags even between the two guns so the extra capacity didn't affect the 30's weight over the 36, but in the end the 30 was easier to control and more accurate as a result.

I didn't end up buying any aftermarket parts for the 30 other than mag extensions, but the 36 had far fewer options, which added about a half a percent sway to the decision. I'd be willing to try one out again, I just wasn't that impressed the first time around.

I actually showed up assuming I was going to buy the 36, and the 30 completely won me over. Whenever I would take friends and family shooting, that dumb Glock was everyone's most accurate even though it was a compact. The only reason I traded it away is because once I tried a few compact 1911 formats, I realized I didn't really need a double stack and the width was enough of a bother that it didn't fit for carry. At the same time I didn't need another compact range-only gun.

AR fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Dec 12, 2010

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007




Mr. Funny Pants posted:

Yep, I went on a frothing rant about it in the news thread. It will easily pass both houses in the next legislature, but now the question is whether Kasich will sign it. He's not been the most gun-friendly Republican in the past.

Yeah I'm a little iffy about him. Strickland just seemed to leave the issue alone, largely. Kasich strikes me as a little more of one of those :ohdear: THE CHILDREN :ohdear: types.

NitroSpazzz
Dec 8, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!




I've been considering getting my CCW permit, I'm in TN so it is pretty straight forward. I didn't really think about the possibility of not being allowed to carry at work until the other week, they sent out an email reminding hunters that there would be consequences for anyone found with a weapon in their vehicle.

So now I'm debating if it would be worth getting. I couldn't carry at work and can't keep it in the car so I can carry after work. Has anyone else ran into a similar issue? Is it worth getting if I'm not allowed to carry a majority of the time?

Edit: It is a government facility and I'm not sure what the rules are for them searching a vehicle without any reason. Especially if the gun is in a locked glove box.

NitroSpazzz fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Dec 15, 2010

kuffs
Mar 29, 2007

Projectile Dysfunction


In some states, like Kansas, an employer can not penalize you for stashing your carry piece in the car - even if it's parked in a company parking lot.

vote_no
Nov 21, 2005

The rush is on.

^^^^ It's become a good many states now... I should make a map since we seem to be lacking one for that.

NitroSpazzz posted:

TN

Tennessee is not one of them, but its statutes seem to make a lot of use of "buildings" in reference to what rights private property owners have to ban the possession of firearms. One of the requirements of 39-17-1359 is that the property be properly posted. It must either say "AS AUTHORIZED BY T.C.A. 39-17-1359, POSSESSION OF A WEAPON ON POSTED PROPERTY OR IN A POSTED BUILDING IS PROHIBITED AND IS A CRIMINAL OFFENSE." or be "The international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle." If you cannot see a sign from the parking lot (or an entrance thereof), I'd speculate that you're within the law.

In any case, violation of that statute is a $500 Class B Misdemeanor. The usual quasi-lawless suggestion is that concealed means concealed. If you properly conceal a pistol, nobody at work will ever know. If your government facility is actually a school or courthouse (or a federal facility), the risk changes significantly.

Also, it's worth getting a permit if you plan on buying guns just to avoid the NCIS.

Schigolch
Apr 30, 2008

Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the Lamb, make thee?


NitroSpazzz posted:

I've been considering getting my CCW permit, I'm in TN so it is pretty straight forward. I didn't really think about the possibility of not being allowed to carry at work until the other week, they sent out an email reminding hunters that there would be consequences for anyone found with a weapon in their vehicle.

So now I'm debating if it would be worth getting. I couldn't carry at work and can't keep it in the car so I can carry after work. Has anyone else ran into a similar issue? Is it worth getting if I'm not allowed to carry a majority of the time?

Edit: It is a government facility and I'm not sure what the rules are for them searching a vehicle without any reason. Especially if the gun is in a locked glove box.

How exactly are they planning on finding weapons in employee vehicles?

Black Stormy
Apr 1, 2003



Schigolch posted:

How exactly are they planning on finding weapons in employee vehicles?

Here in Michigan companies call the police and you either consent to the search, or they impound your vehicle. I was threatened with this at my last job.

BarkingSquirrel
Sep 12, 2008

by Smythe


Schigolch posted:

How exactly are they planning on finding weapons in employee vehicles?
Well he works at a government facility, so the answer would be "By looking".

vote_no
Nov 21, 2005

The rush is on.

The only thing the police could do would be to enforce a trespass in that situation and given that, it seems unlikely that they would impound your vehicle. I think your former workplace was full of it. What was their policy on cause for searches? Company demands for vehicle searches (that aren't mandatory for everyone) are not only rare but also ripe for a discrimination lawsuit.

100% Dundee
Oct 11, 2004


Black Stormy posted:

Here in Michigan companies call the police and you either consent to the search, or they impound your vehicle. I was threatened with this at my last job.

What was the cause for them doing this or are you saying that they did this to you every single day? From the way the guy in TN above made it sound was if they "found" or stumbled upon the gun in your vehicle. What Shigloch was getting at is that if your car isn't getting searched on a daily basis and you do not give them any reason to search your car, how would they ever find or stumble upon your gun?

Micromancer
Apr 17, 2002

He went out to the store
and when he got back
Roll-marks said .22 Short, jack.
If anything I could say that
this gun was rare
Its covered it sweat,
toilet water, and hair


vote_no posted:

^^^^ It's become a good many states now... I should make a map since we seem to be lacking one for that.


Tennessee is not one of them, but its statutes seem to make a lot of use of "buildings" in reference to what rights private property owners have to ban the possession of firearms. One of the requirements of 39-17-1359 is that the property be properly posted. It must either say "AS AUTHORIZED BY T.C.A. 39-17-1359, POSSESSION OF A WEAPON ON POSTED PROPERTY OR IN A POSTED BUILDING IS PROHIBITED AND IS A CRIMINAL OFFENSE." or be "The international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle." If you cannot see a sign from the parking lot (or an entrance thereof), I'd speculate that you're within the law.

In any case, violation of that statute is a $500 Class B Misdemeanor. The usual quasi-lawless suggestion is that concealed means concealed. If you properly conceal a pistol, nobody at work will ever know. If your government facility is actually a school or courthouse (or a federal facility), the risk changes significantly.

Also, it's worth getting a permit if you plan on buying guns just to avoid the NCIS.

I have a TN ccw, and pay NICS checks on every gun transfer. Also, NCIS is a mediocre show.

Should you get it? Yes. Should you carry in a government facility? gently caress no. Lock it in the car? Be sure no one can ever see it ever. My biggest problem isn't needing a gun a work or even in the parking lot of my work. It's arriving back at my house armed because if someone has broken into my home, well if they didn't bring their own they are surely loading my own guns as we speak.

I would lock it in a box, lock the box in the console and never let anyone at work ever know you have one in the car. Follow this up by never doing anything to prompt a search of your vehicle because they can in fact search it if they choose.


Lastly, I'd love to see a map of states with legislation barring an employer from firing you for having a weapon in your car if you have your ccw. It was making its way through the TN govt last I heard but once I didn't have a job where their policies forbid having a gun on campus, I sort of stopped checking up on it.

Black Stormy
Apr 1, 2003



It was a whole jacked up situation. I used a pocket knife as a screwdriver one day, and someone that was the room didn't like it, so they told HR. They started talking to the people that I worked with about knives and guns and things like that, and someone mentioned that we did a "team building" thing at the range one day. So I was brought into a small office with the head of corporate security and someone from HR. I was asked if I carried a knife, why I carried a knife, if they could see it, if I owned guns, if I had a CPL, if I had ever carried a gun at work, if I had a gun at work or in my car now, etc. I answered truthfully, mostly because I would have been sunk without a job. A few months later I was laid off with a group of about 45 other people.

vote_no
Nov 21, 2005

The rush is on.

It's too bad this is the best policy, but really there are two steps to carrying at anti-gun workplaces:

1) Never tell anyone about it.
2) Never let anyone see it.

edit: While I work on sourcing the guns-in-workplaces map, here's the map I made of states that require you inform a detaining LEO of your possession of a firearm:


Click here for the full 1600x1200 image.


California is grey because according to handgunlaw.us, various issuing authorities are making that a requirement of continued permission.

vote_no fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Dec 15, 2010

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

kuffs posted:

In some states, like Kansas, an employer can not penalize you for stashing your carry piece in the car - even if it's parked in a company parking lot.

I wish Colorado were like this.

I wonder if the national corporations are aware of laws like this when they write their "WE WILL ASSRAPE YOU IF YOU BRING IN A POCKETKNIFE" policies.

tangy yet delightful
Sep 13, 2005





NitroSpazzz posted:

I've been considering getting my CCW permit, I'm in TN so it is pretty straight forward.
Yes you should get it. Other posters have covered relevant points. All I'll add is if you live in the Nashville area the cheapest place I know that offers the required class is Guns & Leather in Greenbriar, TN. Last I was aware the class costs $50 there.

edit: Also, http://www.handgunlaw.us/ , is a great site.

Namaste
May 5, 2007
good news for people who love bald news

Are there any crazy "carrying at work" rules in Alabama that I should know about? The employment rules simply say "Don't." - followed by "We hire at will and can fire you for any reason at any time."

I work retail, and would really love to know if there's some law backing me up on these nights where we do huge business and I'm potentially alone in the store.

And for reference, I don't carry at work now. It stays in the car.

Illegal Clown
Feb 18, 2004



I'm glad I just got a job where carrying at work is not only allowed, but required. When the manager asked if I had a permit to carry I said but that I wasn't carrying at the moment. He said that it didn't matter if I was carrying. :c00l:

NitroSpazzz
Dec 8, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!




Thanks for the feedback, that is about what I assumed. I'm taking the intro to handguns class tomorrow night, I've shot a few handguns over the past few years but never got any formal training and figure it couldn't hurt. The local shop (http://www.coalcreekarmory.com/) offers a wide range of classes with pretty reasonable prices so I plan to take a few over the next few months as time allows. Will take the CCW class and pursue that once I find a handgun I am comfortable with and have some range time under my belt.

waffleking
Jul 13, 2005


When I received my permit last year, the handed me a certificate and my permit to keep in my wallet which was just a shrunken version of the certificate with a crappy laminate job. Two guys I work with live in a different county and their permits are plastic photo ID cards just like their driver's liscense.

I thought there would be some sort of standard at least through the state for what the appropriate permit would be. My friend who has his permit as well, got pulled over in a neighboring county and handed the officer his permit with his driver's liscense. The officer didn't beleive it was a real permit and he went through a good bit of hassle trying to prove it was real. Has anybody else had any issues like this? I just wondered if there was some sort of standard CCW permit and if my county just was issuing half rear end permits.

HATE TROLL TIM
Dec 14, 2006


My permit (issued by Isle of Wight County in Virginia) is literally just a business card sized piece of paper.

I had to laminate it myself.

Foehammer
Nov 8, 2005

We are invincible.



waffleking posted:

When I received my permit last year, the handed me a certificate and my permit to keep in my wallet which was just a shrunken version of the certificate with a crappy laminate job. Two guys I work with live in a different county and their permits are plastic photo ID cards just like their driver's liscense.

I thought there would be some sort of standard at least through the state for what the appropriate permit would be. My friend who has his permit as well, got pulled over in a neighboring county and handed the officer his permit with his driver's liscense. The officer didn't beleive it was a real permit and he went through a good bit of hassle trying to prove it was real. Has anybody else had any issues like this? I just wondered if there was some sort of standard CCW permit and if my county just was issuing half rear end permits.

Yup. My roommate got his in Washtenaw county last summer, and got a nice plastic card with the picture printed on. I got mine in Oakland county a month or so ago, and I got poorly-laminated card stock with my passport photo taped in place.

Gray Stormy
Dec 19, 2006



timb posted:

My permit (issued by Isle of Wight County in Virginia) is literally just a business card sized piece of paper.

I had to laminate it myself.

My MI CPL was the same way, only the courthouse wouldnt let us leave without paying them $1 to laminate it for us.

M.C. McMic
Nov 8, 2008

The Weight room
Is your friend


Gray Stormy posted:

My MI CPL was the same way, only the courthouse wouldnt let us leave without paying them $1 to laminate it for us.

Hahahaha!

"Oh, by the way..." :smug:

darnzen
Jun 25, 2005

I crap dark matter.

kuffs posted:

In some states, like Kansas, an employer can not penalize you for stashing your carry piece in the car - even if it's parked in a company parking lot.

In MN I couldn't find anything about workplace parking lots, just that it's up to employer to set the policy for carrying in the workplace.

I did find a section detailing schools and government buildings. It specifically says if you have a carry permit you can have a gun in your car in the lot OR on your person if you are near your car and in the process of putting it in your trunk.

I love how sometimes laws are intentionally vague and sometimes crystal clear.

vote_no
Nov 21, 2005

The rush is on.

It's right there in 624.714:

(c) The owner or operator of a private establishment may not prohibit the lawful carry or possession of firearms in a parking facility or parking area.

Also of note is:

(e) A landlord may not restrict the lawful carry or possession of firearms by tenants or their guests.

Furthermore, the only criminal action that can come to you (if you are caught ignoring the company policy AND assuming the building is properly posted [or it is otherwise proven that you knew of their request, like signing a handbook]) is a $25 fine and a petty misdemeanor with neither forfeiture nor permit revocation.

Minnesota is pretty good considering we are one of the few states to have no Constitutional provision for firearms.

edit: for clarification

vote_no fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Dec 15, 2010

ShowTime
Mar 28, 2005

Expecto Patronum! Expelliarmus! Abracadabra! Argh, none of these are working.
Oh well, fall back plan.
ROOOAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRR!


I applied for my CCW the first week of Sept. and haven't heard anything back yet, should I call and inquire about it or is that not advisable when applying for a CCW? I'm not going to piss off the Sheriff's Dept. if I call, will I?

It's probably a dumb question but this is my first time doing it and i'm the only person I know that has ever applied for one, so I don't exactly have a lot of experience or a pool to draw experience from. I'm in New Hanover county in NC, if that helps.

vote_no
Nov 21, 2005

The rush is on.

ShowTime posted:

I applied for my CCW the first week of Sept. and haven't heard anything back yet, should I call and inquire about it or is that not advisable when applying for a CCW? I'm not going to piss off the Sheriff's Dept. if I call, will I?

It's probably a dumb question but this is my first time doing it and i'm the only person I know that has ever applied for one, so I don't exactly have a lot of experience or a pool to draw experience from. I'm in New Hanover county in NC, if that helps.

NC 14-415.15 posted:

(a) Except as permitted under subsection (b) of this section, within 90 days after receipt of the items listed in G.S. 14‑415.13 from an applicant, the sheriff shall either issue or deny the permit.

You should absolutely call and inquire, and if you feel like it you could make sure you've got your receipt and then call them out on violating state law (assuming you are now past 90 days). Then again, it might just be in the mail.

vote_no fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Dec 15, 2010

darnzen
Jun 25, 2005

I crap dark matter.

vote_no posted:

It's right there in 624.714:

(c) The owner or operator of a private establishment may not prohibit the lawful carry or possession of firearms in a parking facility or parking area.

Also of note is:

(e) A landlord may not restrict the lawful carry or possession of firearms by tenants or their guests.

Furthermore, the only criminal action that can come to you (if you are caught ignoring the company policy AND assuming the building is properly posted [or it is otherwise proven that you knew of their request, like signing a handbook]) is a $25 fine and a petty misdemeanor with neither forfeiture nor permit revocation.

Minnesota is pretty good considering we are one of the few states to have no Constitutional provision for firearms.

edit: for clarification

Ah cool. I didn't remember seeing that part.

We have a federal constitutional provision! I'm ignorant on these matters though. Why would states put anything about firearms in their constitution if it's already covered by the 2nd amendment?

vote_no
Nov 21, 2005

The rush is on.

darnzen posted:

We have a federal constitutional provision! I'm ignorant on these matters though. Why would states put anything about firearms in their constitution if it's already covered by the 2nd amendment?

Someone on here knows more about this than me, but until recently the Second Amendment was not seen to have applied to the states through the incorporation doctrine. I suppose it's also there for the event that the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is repealed. Probably it's the same mentality that localities use when passing legislation that is equivalent to and preempted by the state.

Micromancer
Apr 17, 2002

He went out to the store
and when he got back
Roll-marks said .22 Short, jack.
If anything I could say that
this gun was rare
Its covered it sweat,
toilet water, and hair


I called for status on my permit 4 weeks after application. It was way too early for it to actually be done but when I called I found it it was indefinitely on hold because they didn't receive my fingerprints. Which I saw get sent. I gave them the information they needed to find out oh we really do have them sorry and it arrived a few weeks later.

Had I not called to ensure everything was alright, I'd still be waiting.

ShowTime
Mar 28, 2005

Expecto Patronum! Expelliarmus! Abracadabra! Argh, none of these are working.
Oh well, fall back plan.
ROOOAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRR!


I should have been on it but I figured if there was a hold up and they needed more information they would contact me, like every other organization would do in that situation.

The only thing I think might be holding it up is that I moved about 3 weeks after I submitted the application. I'm aware I have to notify the sheriff within 90 days that I have moved, but that's when you actually have the permit. I researched the issue briefly and discovered no clause that stated I would need to notify them of moving during the application process, so I just let it go. In hindsight, I probably should have anyway, but it was a very rushed and stressful move and I had a lot of other things on my mind.

I'll be calling them here shortly to find out.

Edit: And I just did and it's been ordered and they will contact me when it's ready to be actually picked up. So i'm all approved I just need to wait for the thing to actually arrive.

ShowTime fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Dec 16, 2010

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thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

vote_no posted:

Someone on here knows more about this than me, but until recently the Second Amendment was not seen to have applied to the states through the incorporation doctrine. I suppose it's also there for the event that the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is repealed. Probably it's the same mentality that localities use when passing legislation that is equivalent to and preempted by the state.

Until quite a while after the 14th Amendment was passed, I don't think any of the Bill of Rights was incorporated to the states.

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