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Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Captain Log posted:

I'm not gonna lie, I couldn't be mad about a velvet painting.

But I've got a feeling something done in velvet would be too secular for most of the southerners I grew up around. But they all had this weird reverence for the idea of Native Americans without actually knowing a thing about them. It's like they thought they were mythical legends, rather than the grim reality of why they aren't around anywhere. Well, not around in the South at least.

Yeah it’s a southern as gently caress thing and goes back to something like the civil war era iirc. Short version is that at some point in the 19th C white people started ansy about establishing that they were “true native sons of the soil” of whatever state they were in which was a bit of an issue when their last names were French or English or wha ever and everyone knew that great grandpa came over on a boat. Compare this to the connection with a single place that a family l in Europe might have.

About the same time you have this existing “noble savage” literature. This goes back to 18th century European literature but in the earth 19th you get a distinctly American version that celebrates natives that are increasingly not part of the picture in the coastal areas most densely settled by Europeans. Think the James Fenmore Cooper “Natty Bumpo” stories as an example - Last of the Mohicans being the most famous. “Metamora; or, The Last of the Wampanoags” is a pretty famous play from the time that really rolled around in it and which was got periodic revivals all through the 19th century.

So by the time you get to the civil war you have this idealized “noble savage” native that is conveniently no longer there and white people who want to feel like they have the same connection to Georgia or Kentucky or wherever as their ancestors had to Dorsetshire, and you get people all of a sudden “discovering” that an ancestor was a native. You get a lot of romantic 19th C pathos about a lost way of life and a deep, natural connection to the land you live on, all while not actually changing your racial make enough to make anyone blush.

Now this is where it gets really interesting. Because a LOT of the south ( like, all of the south) isn’t exactly 100% racially pure as the driven snow. One of those things the DNA ancestry tests have really driven home is that pretty much every white person in the south whose family has been here more than a few generations shows a little bit of west African descent in their genetic makeup.

Well, a native ancestor sure is a useful way to hand wave that. Saying that someone had a “Cherokee princess” in the family tree becomes a quick and easy way to explain why one set of cousins is a little more tan than the others. It’s pretty much southern insecurity bingo. You get the “natural connection” with the land that being a true native of the soil brings, you get some royalty in your background, and you get to paper over that black people and white people have sex.

Where it gets really fun is that all this gets muddled down the generations. When I was in middle school I had to do a family tree project and I remember my grandmother - born in Kentucky the 20s - talking about how we had a Cherokee princess in the family and that she’d been told about it by HER grandmother. Now I have no doubt that she 100% thought this was a reference to a native ancestor. Somewhere along the line the background to that euphemism had been lost. Hell I never found out about it until way later, in grad school. But given that it was a common euphemism way back when I have zero doubt that it was a black person and not Cherokee royalty.

This is far from a unique story. Google around and you’ll find a lot of (kind of hilarious) stories about white people getting genealogy DNA tests to figure out which tribe they’re 1/128th of based on some old family story only to see zero native but a smattering of west Africa.

Edit: so yeah lots of words to say that old Southey ladies having a weirdly nostalgic attachment to figures of native women is pretty much a THING and has a historical background that, like most weird southern things, goes back to people trying to cope with the realities of slavery and life in the south.

Edit 2: oh and it should also be pointed out that when making your background a little “exotic*” in the 19th century it helped a lot that the natives were safely no longer around (for the most part) if you lived in the south while the black people . . . were.

* yes it’s a problematic term and I’m using it consciously because it’s the mindset at work here. All of this is hips deep in exoticism and exoticizing non-White people and cultures. It’s problematic as fuuuuuck, especially with Natives in the American context, and is an issue right down to the present day with poo poo like media representation. Disney’s Pocahontas didn’t come from nowhere.

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Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

So pat yourself on the back and give yourself a handshake
'Cause everything is not yet lost




Pillbug

gently caress, that’s fascinating.

Final Blog Entry
Jun 23, 2006

"Love us with money or we'll hate you with hammers!"

Yeah I grew up thinking I was 1/128 Native American, Mohawk specifically for our family story. Did 23 and me a couple of years ago and according to them I'm 99% Northwest European and the rest is Eastern European and "Broadly European". Holy gently caress am I white. It does make me pretty high up there in Neanderthal ancestry, so I've got that going for me.

I also ended up conversing with a mysterious first cousin who seems to be my uncle's illegitimate kid from an affair. That was interesting.

Internet Wizard
Aug 9, 2009

BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES



Hell, my family history has me both 1/16 Native American, but also should be part of the NE Native American mitochondrial groups.

Turns out I’m neither, and somehow that family history was fabricated and cemented within the last four generations.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"
:toot::birddrugs::toot:



Disclaimer - I'm going to say Native American for lack of a better word. I understand it's a problematic label.

When I took that month long intensive Holocaust course, we spent two days on Native Americans/Indigenous Peoples. It was 2006, so I think Native American was still the parlance. Anyways, the loving barbarity we covered in those two days nearly turned my hair gray. Also, the estimate of the Native American dead from European colonization being cited was 35-50 million. Yeah, a lot of it was indirect stuff like disease. But a good chunk of it was straight up murderous genocide.

Anyways, it's always hosed me up how little I know about Native American tribes. (If I'm correct, referring to the specific tribe is preferred. But I don't even know what tribes were indigenous to the areas I lived, for gently caress's sake.) I can make small talk in four or five languages, but don't know how to say "Hello" in any Native American dialect.

But with all that said, my southern family always had this, "Magical Native American" thing that was downright bizarre. Luckily, they weren't outright racists due to sharing land with a black family for a hundred years or so. At least, they weren't racist compared to their other neighbors. But anytime Native Americans were referenced it was in these hushes tones of reverence about their relationship with nature and how they were, "Noble." But I seriously don't think ANYONE in the family ever met a Native American.

But they all had arrowhead collections they found as children. They sure as gently caress used to be around. But nobody seemed to make the connection of "Arrowheads everywhere but no people who used them" means some pretty nasty stuff happened.

DNA Kits - My DNA kit made me look like a fool. It told me a majority portion of my heritage was Irish Celt, which sure as gently caress isn't in the family tree. My family rolled their eyes at me asking questions, thinking I was off on some wild goose chase. Even when I showed them the results, they just said, "Well, they're wrong."

I got a message a year later saying, "We are continuously improving our methodology. This means we have improved your results with more information!" All the Irish was gone. Now it was 67% Scot Celt. After I asked everyone in the family uncomfortable questions.

My DNA kit made me look like a fool.

The only unexpected thing was 1% DNA from India. But my family is majority British, so that's not a huge surprise. But my Mom's side of the family sure look like they never stepped outside of their own gene pool.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

This conversation is cracking me up. My mom is HUGE into genealogy. She and my stepdad travel around going to libraries and graveyards and stuff to pull marriage records, look at wills etc...

For years she said she thought my maternal great grandmother was Native American or part. To be fair on this one, she had found no written records to support it but photos show her to have this rich dark hair and skin. My DNA test (which could be wrong certainly) 0 Native American. :lol: Mom's of course too, no Indian.

Also my grandparents on my dad's side were both from Portugal, two different families but definitely immigrated from Portugal, both families spoke Portuguese etc etc. My DNA test, yep shows a ton of Portuguese and a whole smattering of other DNA from all over including N African which I found interesting as the Moors conquered Spain/Portugal way back when. AncestryDNA re calibrates a year later and now the Portuguese is way down to almost nothing and out of nowhere I'm a third French and all the other tidbits from all over are gone. I mean science changes but I told my sister someone at Ancestry DNA screwed up.

I have a cousin whose granddad, a super cool guy who manned a 50 cal on a b17 in WW2 btw, claimed Native American ancestry and he looked it too. He might have grown up on a reservation or maybe it was a orphanage for NAs. He had a small collection of very dear NA artwork. This cousin and the other grandkids went to college on Native American scholarships. The works. Cousin takes a test and low and behold his DNA shows a smidge of West African.

In the end the tests are amusing at best.

Nipponophile
Apr 8, 2009


Captain Log posted:

I can make small talk in four or five languages, but don't know how to say "Hello" in any Native American dialect.

God help me, this is unintentionally hilarious.

I know, I know, laughing at that probably makes me seem racist, but it's OK, my great-great-grandmother was Native American. She came from a long line of noble dwellers of the land...

my kinda ape
Sep 15, 2008

Everything's gonna be A-OK


Oven Wrangler

Won an auction for a CZ-52 on Friday evening two weeks ago. Bought and sent a money order at the post office the next morning. A couple days later I email him to make sure he's ok with taking my C&R license. No response. A couple days after that I just went ahead and sent him a copy of my license saying the gun definitely qualifies as C&R so it should be good to go. No response. I call him a day or two later and he doesn't answer so I leave a message saying hey what's the deal here. He calls back a few hours later and says he's been gone since Thursday (the day before the auction ended) and won't be back until next week. There's zero indication of that in the listing but whatever fine I can wait. Then he sends me a one sentence email today saying "Have not received payment as of yet? [his name]"

I'd say he was trying to scam me if this didn't appear to be an actual gun store.

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

BORN TO DIE
HAIG IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1917
I am trench man
410,757,864,530 SHELLS FIRED




Indigenous ancestor stories are more common than I thought. We have one too, although it might be true since it does include a pretty specific time and place. We've been able to find quite a bit about the later descendants but not a lot about the alleged ancestor beyond his (westernized) name and where he supposedly lived and was buried.

Should look into one of those DNA things. I know I'm kind of a genetic mutt either way but I'd be curious to see it broken down.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"
:toot::birddrugs::toot:



Somebody Awful posted:

Indigenous ancestor stories are more common than I thought. We have one too, although it might be true since it does include a pretty specific time and place. We've been able to find quite a bit about the later descendants but not a lot about the alleged ancestor beyond his (westernized) name and where he supposedly lived and was buried.

Should look into one of those DNA things. I know I'm kind of a genetic mutt either way but I'd be curious to see it broken down.

Just don’t go asking your family a lot of questions based on the results. I got burned pretty hard by their apparent lackadaisical approach to Irish vs. Scottish.

Because I’m dumb.

my kinda ape
Sep 15, 2008

Everything's gonna be A-OK


Oven Wrangler

my kinda ape posted:

Won an auction for a CZ-52 on Friday evening two weeks ago. Bought and sent a money order at the post office the next morning. A couple days later I email him to make sure he's ok with taking my C&R license. No response. A couple days after that I just went ahead and sent him a copy of my license saying the gun definitely qualifies as C&R so it should be good to go. No response. I call him a day or two later and he doesn't answer so I leave a message saying hey what's the deal here. He calls back a few hours later and says he's been gone since Thursday (the day before the auction ended) and won't be back until next week. There's zero indication of that in the listing but whatever fine I can wait. Then he sends me a one sentence email today saying "Have not received payment as of yet? [his name]"

I'd say he was trying to scam me if this didn't appear to be an actual gun store.

Welp he told me the money order showed up today. Exactly two weeks after I sent it. Maybe USPS is having problems?

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"
:toot::birddrugs::toot:



my kinda ape posted:

Welp he told me the money order showed up today. Exactly two weeks after I sent it. Maybe USPS is having problems?

It is. As an Ebay seller I've got a poo poo ton of notifications about it. As a buyer, I've also received the same notices.

Oregon is thankfully in the bottom ten impacted coronavirus states, so I think it's probably regional. I've not seen much disruption to the local mail.

I like turtles
Aug 6, 2009



<>

I like turtles fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Sep 29, 2020

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"
:toot::birddrugs::toot:



I like turtles posted:

Blood quantum, tribal identity and the relationship between the two is a very sore point for many native folks.
Unless you actually have an established relationship with a tribe, or someone in your family verifiably does, consider not saying "oh! me too!" and repeating the Cherokee/<insert tribe> princess story when chatting with a native person.

My entire life has been filled with people going, "Oh, you're British? ME TOO! My great grandfather came over from Ireland in 1893! I'm really British." I find it amusing and slightly irritating when it's laid on real thick. Especially when I don't even really consider myself British, I just had the slightest accent when I was younger. (It's long, long gone.)

I can only begin to imagine the simmering rage an indigenous person would feel hearing this type of stuff every time they talk to a white person.

Alarbus
Mar 31, 2010


my kinda ape posted:

Welp he told me the money order showed up today. Exactly two weeks after I sent it. Maybe USPS is having problems?

Yep. I ordered civil war reproduction fabric for masks and maybe other projects. Kentucky to Indiana, got lost for two weeks, then showed up in Pennsylvania. Very authentic I guess?

SuperDouche
Apr 24, 2008


Anyone ever sell ammo on gunbroker? I have some bulk 9mm fmj and I need the money more. I see plenty of auctions with bids on the exact ammo and am tracking a few auctions to get a feel for prices.
I'm still at a bit of a loss of choosing a payment option, I see some listings opting for CashApp/Zelle. Anyone have any experience on the easiest way for you? I only anticipate having to sell a few lots of 500 9mm fmj, and probably some hollow points.



Edit: I am dumb and forgot what a money order is, any luddite could western union me I guess.

SuperDouche fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Jul 14, 2020

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

So pat yourself on the back and give yourself a handshake
'Cause everything is not yet lost




Pillbug

Simliarly, anything to look for buying bulk ammo on gunbroker? I need more 12ga and don't know a good way to reliably get it for cheap without getting involved in a bunch of auctions and accidentally buying 5x what I want.

my kinda ape
Sep 15, 2008

Everything's gonna be A-OK


Oven Wrangler

SuperDouche posted:

Anyone ever sell ammo on gunbroker? I have some bulk 9mm fmj and I need the money more. I see plenty of auctions with bids on the exact ammo and am tracking a few auctions to get a feel for prices.
I'm still at a bit of a loss of choosing a payment option, I see some listings opting for CashApp/Zelle. Anyone have any experience on the easiest way for you? I only anticipate having to sell a few lots of 500 9mm fmj, and probably some hollow points.



Edit: I am dumb and forgot what a money order is, any luddite could western union me I guess.

Yeah I'd just do a USPS money order, or have them Venmo you, I've done that before.

Ugly In The Morning posted:

Simliarly, anything to look for buying bulk ammo on gunbroker? I need more 12ga and don't know a good way to reliably get it for cheap without getting involved in a bunch of auctions and accidentally buying 5x what I want.

I'd just make sure the seller's feedback is decent, as with buying anything on GB.

Sure you can't just find the ammo from a regular ammo retailer? I would think that would be easier/cheaper but I guess ammo can be kind of scarce these days.

my kinda ape fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Jul 14, 2020

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

So pat yourself on the back and give yourself a handshake
'Cause everything is not yet lost




Pillbug

my kinda ape posted:

I would think that would be easier/cheaper but I guess ammo can be kind of scarce these days.

I live in NY- I’ve had to pay 10 bucks for 5 slugs in the last few weeks. I can do alright with birdshot but I haven’t even found any buckshot in months.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Ah, gunbroker. I listed a broken revolver for $200 and almost immediately got this email:

"I would be interested at $100.oo Thanks"

Thanks for your input. I don't really care unless you're interested at $200 or more, and then you should place a bid.

my kinda ape
Sep 15, 2008

Everything's gonna be A-OK


Oven Wrangler

Yeah I hate that poo poo. I was trying to get some money for some reason a year or two ago so I decided to sell an extra scope I had. Dude messages me on eBay saying he really needs a scope to finish the rifle he's building for his dad for father's day, could I please sell it to him for 2/3rds of the auction starting price?

I message him back that it's a couple weeks before fathers day so all he needs to do is place a bid and if he wins he will have it in time easily! "bububu-but I can't afford it." Well that sucks dude, have fun asking various retailers if they'll sell one to you for less than half of MSRP.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"
:toot::birddrugs::toot:



infrared35 posted:

Ah, gunbroker. I listed a broken revolver for $200 and almost immediately got this email:

"I would be interested at $100.oo Thanks"

Thanks for your input. I don't really care unless you're interested at $200 or more, and then you should place a bid.

I almost entirely stopped listing silver on eBay because of the "I'm a single mother trying to get into silver can you give me this for half the value? Single mother." message.

I feel ya.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.


infrared35 posted:

Ah, gunbroker. I listed a broken revolver for $200 and almost immediately got this email:

"I would be interested at $100.oo Thanks"

Thanks for your input. I don't really care unless you're interested at $200 or more, and then you should place a bid.
The public sucks.

Is this the colt you listed in the classifieds? Seems like there's probably a good smith out there that can fix it right quick and make a decent profit.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

stealie72 posted:

The public sucks.

Is this the colt you listed in the classifieds? Seems like there's probably a good smith out there that can fix it right quick and make a decent profit.

It’s the Smith Model 15, but yeah. I see whole cylinder/crane/ejector sets on eBay for around $60. Just a matter of finding one that fits.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Captain Log posted:

I almost entirely stopped listing silver on eBay because of the "I'm a single mother trying to get into silver can you give me this for half the value? Single mother." message.

I feel ya.

I’d bet that the majority of them are flippers.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"
:toot::birddrugs::toot:



Cyrano4747 posted:

I’d bet that the majority of them are flippers.

Oh, absolutely. The message is always too much of a sob story.

ZarathustraFollower
Mar 14, 2009





SuperDouche posted:

Anyone ever sell ammo on gunbroker? I have some bulk 9mm fmj and I need the money more. I see plenty of auctions with bids on the exact ammo and am tracking a few auctions to get a feel for prices.
I'm still at a bit of a loss of choosing a payment option, I see some listings opting for CashApp/Zelle. Anyone have any experience on the easiest way for you? I only anticipate having to sell a few lots of 500 9mm fmj, and probably some hollow points.



Edit: I am dumb and forgot what a money order is, any luddite could western union me I guess.

I've been selling a fair bit on GB. I put down I'll accept USPS money orders or certified check, and then message the winner to ask if they'd like to pay via paypal gift. About 50% do it that way. For those that mail me payment it probably takes about 3-5 business days to arrive. Before you sell anything, make sure you have a UPS center near you that you can ship from. All you'll need to do is declare it as limited quantity and include caliber and # of rounds (UPS has folded the ORD-M category into this) and put the right marking on it (white diamond with the blacked out top and bottom, you can print it off from their site and tape it to the box). All the UPS folks I've dealt with have been super helpful. I charge a flat rate of $20 for shipping, actual cost is around $15-18 per 500 rounds 9mm.

Feel free to either PM me or ask here if you have any questions.

stuxracer
May 4, 2006



Gotta love someone selling items they don’t even have :psyduck:
The second it “shipped” less than an hour after the auction ended (almost midnight) should have been my sign. After a couple times being told in email they shipped it no shipping info to be found. They apparently sell lots of things so maybe an inventory issue but just admit a mistake and refund rather than ducking calls and emails for a week+

On to chargeback fun.

ChuckDeNomolos
Jan 10, 2013

"For god's sake, man! Can you hear that? I know it seems like crying, and you always have crying in your head, but can you hear that?"


Cyrano4747 posted:

I’d bet that the majority of them are flippers.

Any bidder that sends you a message pre-sale that isn't asking specifics about the item's quality is going to be a machine generated account that's going to ask you to ship to an international FFL or an insane person, and will end with a UPI case or a "warning about your trading partner" email. Your best buyers always speak with a completed payment instead of a message/feedback.

SocketWrench
Jul 8, 2012


Somebody Awful posted:

Listings with reserves can just :fuckoff:

I never got the point myself. It's like if that's what you want for it, start it there for gently caress's sake

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

SocketWrench posted:

I never got the point myself. It's like if that's what you want for it, start it there for gently caress's sake

No, it has to be a secret

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

They sell the darndest things on gunbroker. :stare:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/876664614

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



infrared35 posted:

They sell the darndest things on gunbroker. :stare:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/876664614

. . . huh.

I gotta admit, given your odd proclivities I had a short list in my head of what that might be.


That was not one of them.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Cyrano4747 posted:

. . . huh.

I gotta admit, given your odd proclivities I had a short list in my head of what that might be.


That was not one of them.

I half expect to find some poo poo like that in my dad's storage unit.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



infrared35 posted:

I half expect to find some poo poo like that in my dad's storage unit.

Only counts if it's not inert.

Story time: Rumor has it (and the rumor pretty well founded and related to me by someone who knows that community, but I can't independently verify it) that the Navy had a live nuke at one of their museums for a few decades. It was one of the OG 50s era devices that were basically v2.0 of what we dropped on Japan and somewhere along the line they thought it would be a cool display. Story has it that it sat there, happily gathering dust, for quite a while until someone loving around with a radiation detector for unrelated reasons realized that it was hot. One call to a bunch of agencies later an elderly core was removed, the (conventional) explosive bits taken out, and the shell put back on display.

Proper Kerni ng
Nov 14, 2011



Today on Gunborker: The World's Most Exciting 5 Gallon Bucket.

Gin and Juche
Apr 3, 2008

The Highest Judge of Paradise
Shiki Eiki
YAMAXANADU


I could see using that as a mash tun for microbrew.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

Nobody Cares




What is a nuclear weapon, if not a relatively elaborate metal can?

ishikabibble
Jan 21, 2012



Cyrano4747 posted:

Only counts if it's not inert.

Story time: Rumor has it (and the rumor pretty well founded and related to me by someone who knows that community, but I can't independently verify it) that the Navy had a live nuke at one of their museums for a few decades. It was one of the OG 50s era devices that were basically v2.0 of what we dropped on Japan and somewhere along the line they thought it would be a cool display. Story has it that it sat there, happily gathering dust, for quite a while until someone loving around with a radiation detector for unrelated reasons realized that it was hot. One call to a bunch of agencies later an elderly core was removed, the (conventional) explosive bits taken out, and the shell put back on display.

I know of A Navy Museum that has a Fat Man Mark IV on display, but AFAIK it never was a live bomb and the research base never actually had anything to do with nuclear testing, just producing non-nuclear explosive components and testing bomb shapes.

I can vaguely maybe believe that that happened elsewhere though because said base also has a group running around inspecting desk ornaments old timers have because there's tons of energetic material/etc stuff just floating around that predates when every last bit was tracked.

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Dead Reckoning
Sep 13, 2011


Cyrano4747 posted:

Story time: Rumor has it...
That's a tough sell. There were so few of those early bombs that I have a hard time believing that one could walk out of live inventory and nobody would raise a fuss.

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