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Nomadic Scholar
Feb 6, 2013




Just beat the fools idol, and finally explored 5-1. Then I fell off at one point and got angry about the crystal lizard location. Then I went back to 3-2 (before this I accidentally went and stabbed that dude in front of the boletaria warp, he disappeared and some souls were in his place). Those tower chains are creepy as hell.

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MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Only four left for big boy here, so he's all but useless.

I've been playing this game intermittently over the last two weeks and I loving love it. I never though I would, I'm usually not a fan of hard games. Well, ok, I'm a fan of hard games, I just suck at them. But now I've managed to defeat a few Bosses and completed Stonefang tunnel and got a few of the hidden items (like the Dragonbone Sword) and I'm having a blast despite dying all the time.

I'd gotten the first Dark Souls years ago on the cheap but never got into it, eventually I lent it to my brother. I've been unsuccessfully looking for a summer job while waiting for College to start again so I've got basically jack poo poo to do with my time, so ona whim I download Demon's Souls and ended up loving it. I think I'm gonna play the Dark Souls game after that, see if I can get the first one back from my brother. I play in short bursts, in between marathoning Columbo and sending CVs, don't want to get too frustrated by repeated deaths.

I started playing offline to get all the world Pure White by killing the Bosses.

Curdy Lemonstan
Jan 25, 2012

by zen death robot


MonsieurChoc posted:

I've been playing this game intermittently over the last two weeks and I loving love it. I never though I would, I'm usually not a fan of hard games. Well, ok, I'm a fan of hard games, I just suck at them. But now I've managed to defeat a few Bosses and completed Stonefang tunnel and got a few of the hidden items (like the Dragonbone Sword) and I'm having a blast despite dying all the time.

I'd gotten the first Dark Souls years ago on the cheap but never got into it, eventually I lent it to my brother. I've been unsuccessfully looking for a summer job while waiting for College to start again so I've got basically jack poo poo to do with my time, so ona whim I download Demon's Souls and ended up loving it. I think I'm gonna play the Dark Souls game after that, see if I can get the first one back from my brother. I play in short bursts, in between marathoning Columbo and sending CVs, don't want to get too frustrated by repeated deaths.

I started playing offline to get all the world Pure White by killing the Bosses.

Youre gonna wreck poo poo up when you get to dark souls.

wyoming
Jun 7, 2010

Like a television
tuned to a dead channel.


Created a magic character to get all of the rings, fighting the black phantoms in NG wasn't so bad, probably shouldn't have tried Rydell with Magical Sharpness and Krys blade though.
Kinda funny how easy it is to go from pure white to pure black, while it would take multiple runs to do the reverse.

Then I noticed the crystal lizards stick their tongues out at you before they disappear, what jerks.





At least I found out the Shaman's clothes are the most stylish for a male character. Popped collar for days.

wyoming
Jun 7, 2010

Like a television
tuned to a dead channel.


Ah, what the hell, I tried super hard to defeat the blue dragon and save Biorr, and I did! I was stoked, he went to sleep in front of the palace and I went back in the level a bit to grab some items, and then suddenly I get a bunch of souls and Biorr is gone.


The wiki says he goes back to his jail cell (he wasn't there) so I'm guessing you're not really supposed to save him.
Ah well, felt good wrecking that dragon at least.

Also why are crossbows such garbage? I was excited because I got the gargoyle one that scales with magic, but ugh, I guess it's for grabbing the attention of foes if you don't have any spells?

PostEldar
May 7, 2004

I'm in your area.

I just finished ds3 and I've been reflecting on how much more I prefer Demon's to the other souls games. I only really have personal reasons for this and wouldn't waste time arguing one is better than another (all of the souls games, even ds2, are truly wonderful), but there's something about your first one. Back in 2009 or 10 or whenever, everything about this game felt fresh, and strange, and true. Although the following games would perfect the idiom, none would ever be as bold as this one. I don't know if I've ever been as enchanted by a game as I was upon first playing 1-1 -the ruin of Boletaria, the pyramid shaped mountain with the hollow in its center, the dragon with a mouth full of corpses. I had to completely relearn how to play video games just to make it through that initial run to the first portcullis.

I feel the same way about this game as I do my favorite albums. I wish I could experience it for the first time again, go back to a time before. It's a testament to how much the game changed me.

Good soup!
Nov 1, 2010

you know we smoking that dour
two titans back to back call em twin towers


Go Flyers


Lipstick Apathy

I agree, but I feel like my preference for Demon's is due to the absolutely grim atmosphere. There's something about Dark Souls that, while gritty and dark at times, seems more brighter? It's hard to explain but Demon's sticks out so much in my mind because the atmosphere drips this sense of dread and isolation that I haven't seen before and I just don't get that from the other games.

Now I feel like I need to go back and beat it all over again.

Happy Hedonist
Jan 18, 2009



Fun Shoe

I have the greatest hits version sitting in shrink wrap next to my tv, I just ordered it a month or two ago. Does it have a separate trophy list than the Korean version or whatever one it was we imported? If so, I should get on that. I've never played the NA version.

PostEldar
May 7, 2004

I'm in your area.

Awesome Welles posted:

I agree, but I feel like my preference for Demon's is due to the absolutely grim atmosphere. There's something about Dark Souls that, while gritty and dark at times, seems more brighter? It's hard to explain but Demon's sticks out so much in my mind because the atmosphere drips this sense of dread and isolation that I haven't seen before and I just don't get that from the other games.

Now I feel like I need to go back and beat it all over again.

So true! It IS hard to explain. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that at that time there were so few games to compare Demon's to. The grimness of Demon's souls I think is linked to the difficulty. When it first came out, that's all anyone could say about it. "It's hard." "Why can't you pause?" "Why does it take like 30 seconds to pull a green herb out of your pocket and chew it?" But those mechanics made the art design sing. I've seen plenty of amazing, towering, metal-as-gently caress demons in other games, but because they were so easy to kill or because they cleaved so strongly to traditional mechanics, they never elicited any emotional response at all. In Demon's souls, even the lowliest zombie can kick your rear end if you're not paying attention. The stakes are more meaningful, more real. The red dragon still scares the poo poo out of me in 1-2. What a masterpiece. What a work of art.

gently caress, better fire up the ps3.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004



I only played Demon's Souls recently and after I'd finished the other Souls games and I still think it has the best atmosphere out of any of them other than maybe Bloodborne, which was going for an entirely different thing anyway. DS3 comes close with its relentless 'everything is utterly hosed' thing going on, but it's too actiony still and the other Dark games are more just gritty fantasy that's really vague about stuff.

Everything in Demon's is just so weird and surreal and dangerous. Most people quote Tower of Latria as their favourite bit but for me the Valley of Defilement is probably the most haunting and atmospheric area I've ever played, because you're basically just an rear end in a top hat going down there to ruin the single good thing in the lives of people who otherwise have nothing but utter poo poo in it.

wyoming
Jun 7, 2010

Like a television
tuned to a dead channel.


Overall I like the world of Dark Souls more, however I do find Demon's Souls more enjoyable/replayable.

Like, as awesome as exploring the connected world of Dark Souls is, the challenging gauntlet this game presents is just so rewarding to fight through.

Also, Patches is forever the best NPC.

HairyManling
Jul 20, 2011

No flipping.

Fun Shoe

I wish I could play Demon's Souls for the first time again.

oldpainless
Oct 30, 2009



I think some of it is that so much of Demons is inside where its naturally darker. The Nexus, Latria, Valley, Stonefang, half of Shrine are all set inside or at night. There's no sun and its difficult to get a sense of spatial awareness due to limited sight and you're usually going downwards. I think all these kinda subconsciously add to feelings of unease.

Digirat
Sep 14, 2011

stinking
rat-vole
rodent
piece of
TRASH


Something about the shrine of storms is really surreal in this specific way that no area in the later games matches. I don't know what it is but it's awesome. Even though there's skeletons and ghosts it doesn't really feel dark to me like the valley of defilement does, just surreal and fantastic (as in "fantasy-like"), because of things like the glowing slug cave and the weather that makes you feel like you're on the edge of the world. Weather and skyboxes do a lot to set tone for me.

Environmental ambient background noise is a big part of it too. The background noise in tower of latria and shrine of storms is fantastic, and is actually a really good replacement for background music. In later games I felt like they would have benefited from some ambient music/noise (like the phonograph in the duke's archives) because they seem too silent, and not in a way that contributes to the atmosphere.

Digirat fucked around with this message at Jun 29, 2016 around 18:51

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004



Yeah Shrine of Storms is just weird in an unidentifiable way. Like the second time you go outside and there's a ton of dead flying manta ray things all over the floor for no reason (that you can see).

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Awesome Welles posted:

I agree, but I feel like my preference for Demon's is due to the absolutely grim atmosphere. There's something about Dark Souls that, while gritty and dark at times, seems more brighter? It's hard to explain but Demon's sticks out so much in my mind because the atmosphere drips this sense of dread and isolation that I haven't seen before and I just don't get that from the other games.

Now I feel like I need to go back and beat it all over again.

demon's souls is literally a darker game because all of the areas are in darker places

overcast skies in the shrine of storms and boletaria, perpetual night in latria, and stonefang and the valley are underground. there's nothing like darkroot or anor londo

Rookersh
Aug 19, 2010

Midgets be packing some Space-Age shit!



Manatee Cannon posted:

demon's souls is literally a darker game because all of the areas are in darker places

overcast skies in the shrine of storms and boletaria, perpetual night in latria, and stonefang and the valley are underground. there's nothing like darkroot or anor londo

I mean it's also a darker game.

You don't fix Demon's Souls. You don't accomplish anything, or serve in a grand purpose. Everyone around you is dead, or about to die, and for what? Boletaria? Boletaria is gone. The whole thing is just this pointless revenge quest to kill the thing that destroyed the world.

Dark Souls....hasn't hit that point yet? Like it's a dead world but it isn't. You keep finding new Undead strewn about Lordran to help you in your quest, and they are all there for dumb selfish reasons, but humanist reasons. The world outside of Lordran still exists, this is just the quarantine zone for Undead mixed with the focal point for what caused the Undead curse. Stuff exists and happens outside of Lordran, life goes on, and will continue to go on. Even in such tragedy, money still needs to be made, people still want answers to questions, and jolly cooperation needs to go down. You also actually are taking constant steps to fix the problem, albeit in a way that doesn't quite "fix" it as you might have liked.

It's the same for Dark Souls 2 and 3.

wyoming
Jun 7, 2010

Like a television
tuned to a dead channel.


Maiden Astraea is probably my favourite part of the game, it's just heart wrenching, and fuckin' Garl man, he just won't stand down. Just an awesome and surprising moment for a videogame to have.

The prison of Latria has my favourite lore however. First you've got Rydell, a Lord that's regarded well enough to be known as Little Allant, he's been killed and captured multiple times, and is ready to just give up, but he tells you he wants to do so near a trinket of his wife. When you free him the only thing on his body is his broken pole, if you fight his black phantom to get the complete one, it tells you he stole it from the Witch in the Sky. Which, is weird enough lore on its own, but when you pair it with a memento of his wife... Crazy.

Then there's the opera singing royal merchant. I'm guessing she's the Queen of Latria, she's been chained up and tortured, her face has been mutilated (if not straight up removed to create the Fool's Idol), but she's not locked up, in fact she wants your souls so she can stay in the prison longer. She's crying blood and singing to calm the tortured souls that were once her subjects.


Sakurazuka posted:

Yeah Shrine of Storms is just weird in an unidentifiable way. Like the second time you go outside and there's a ton of dead flying manta ray things all over the floor for no reason (that you can see).

The first part of Shrine of Storms is the defining moment of the game for me, when you walk through that first archway you see the skeleton warriors standing up on the stairs, you've got the grey skies, the sound of flags (or is it wings...) in the wind, and then a fuckin' manta ray flies by in the background.

Honestly the biggest surprise was the manta attacking me inside the ruined castle court, I just assumed they would be something associated with a later demon (suppose I was sort of right).

Reminds me, even though I've fought the Iron Giant at least a dozen times by now, I kind of freaked out the last time, I was up on the wall shooting Soul Rays at him, when I catch a glimpse of the red dragon on his scouting flight of the Lord's Path. I knew it wasn't going to interfere with the fight, but for a moment, man, what a nightmare.

Rookersh posted:

Dark Souls....hasn't hit that point yet? Like it's a dead world but it isn't. You keep finding new Undead strewn about Lordran to help you in your quest, and they are all there for dumb selfish reasons, but humanist reasons. The world outside of Lordran still exists, this is just the quarantine zone for Undead mixed with the focal point for what caused the Undead curse. Stuff exists and happens outside of Lordran, life goes on, and will continue to go on. Even in such tragedy, money still needs to be made, people still want answers to questions, and jolly cooperation needs to go down. You also actually are taking constant steps to fix the problem, albeit in a way that doesn't quite "fix" it as you might have liked.

I mean, you're still describing Demon's Souls here? The Nexus is only holding together the northern land of Boletaria, and the fog has yet to creep outside of the borders, Latria and Stonefang are technically part of it, or close enough anyway, and the Shrine of Storms is on a dead island off the coast. Saint Urbain, Freaky Freke, Yuria, Yurt, Patches, Scirvir, and pretty much all the others wandered into the fog for adventure or power.

There are lands outside we never visit, like Vinland, the lost Mird (though I have a theory that it became the Valley of Defilement...) and weird things only hinted at.
In both games the world dying or going on is up to you.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

I'll kick yer sorry arse so hard you'll kiss the moons!

Read posted:

The fact that this thread is still fairly consistently active makes me happy. Game is so fuckin' good.

One might even say it's the best Souls game ........

Curdy Lemonstan
Jan 25, 2012

by zen death robot


esperterra posted:

One might even say it's the best Souls game ........

Yes its the most arcane and interesting souls game (after youve played dark souls and bloodborne to death).

The true trilogy is:
Demons
Darks
Bloodborns

PostEldar
May 7, 2004

I'm in your area.

Forgive me for not reading all 600-some pages of this thread, but does anyone have any decent/quirky theories as to whether or not Demon's lore relates to the main souls trilogy? I thought I heard somewhere the destroyed Giant Archstone led to Lordran, but may well just be bullshit.

wyoming
Jun 7, 2010

Like a television
tuned to a dead channel.


After engulfing the entire world in grey fog and devouring all the souls, the old one roots itself into the ground and sprouts into the arch trees, this brings dragon bones to the surface, and the wandering soulless demons get turned into everlasting-dragons (as seen by the blacksmiths and lizard men of the mines, exposure makes you dragon-like), eventually the mass of souls explodes into the first flame. Boom.


In other news I finally managed to Platinum the game, was starting to think the loving Pure Bladestone was a myth.
Also totally worth it to farm Marrowstone to use Fatal weapons on phantoms. Really I'm just big fan of anything that makes the fight against Garl not drag out. Not to say that part has grown annoying, but parrying and riposting him can go on for quite awhile, especially if you bother with the black phantom (I always do, to finally put the stubborn bastard to rest I guess)
I think my main character is in like NG+6 or 7 right now, mostly been working on various ways of cheesing the bosses at this point. Found out you can kill the False King with arrows before aggroing him, feels super cheap and you never get the melodramatic boss music though.
Totally down with killing the first Maneater with arrows through the fog gate though, gently caress that fight.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



PostEldar posted:

Forgive me for not reading all 600-some pages of this thread, but does anyone have any decent/quirky theories as to whether or not Demon's lore relates to the main souls trilogy? I thought I heard somewhere the destroyed Giant Archstone led to Lordran, but may well just be bullshit.

it doesn't, people have gotten into the unfinished area that archstone lead to. there are videos of it on youtube

demon's souls and dark souls are wholly separate outside of some shared references, some of which predating demon's souls (the large sword of moonlight/moonlight greatsword is from king's field, for example)

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


esperterra posted:

One might even say it's the best Souls game ........

I think they each do things 'best' and there's no clear winner. Dark Souls 1 IMO has the best level design of any game ever made. Dark Souls 3 has the best graphics, the most refined combat, better online options, and a ton of cool and unique bosses. Bloodborne is really unique and different and has amazing story and themes, Dark Souls 2 just gives you a ton of poo poo to do and gives you more variety in level design than DS1 although less connected, and Demon's is the OG and has the best atmosphere and some really crazy bosses, although more of the bosses are just puzzles that once you figure out they're trivial and the graphics and controls are far less refined. They each have strengths and weaknesses.

But I would absolutely kill for an HD remaster of Demon's on a modern platform.

Business Raptor
Jun 3, 2009



wyoming posted:

Totally down with killing the first Maneater with arrows through the fog gate though, gently caress that fight.

Maneater is the best of all the souls fights so you must now atone for your sins.

Guw
Jan 10, 2013



Business Raptor posted:

Maneater is the best of all the souls fights so you must now atone for your sins.

Maneater hosed me up bad on my second play through after I replayed the game recently after DS3 and Bloodborne. I don't remember him being bad at all when the game first came out. The rest of the game didn't really give me trouble, either.

But I agree, you should never shoot arrows through a fog wall like a helpless dumb baby.

wyoming
Jun 7, 2010

Like a television
tuned to a dead channel.


If cheesing Souls bosses is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

But anyway, I recently started playing through Dark Souls II, and I feel it's punishment enough for all sins, past and future.

Guw
Jan 10, 2013



wyoming posted:

If cheesing Souls bosses is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

But anyway, I recently started playing through Dark Souls II, and I feel it's punishment enough for all sins, past and future.

I'm a DS2 defender but, yeah, it's definitely the worst of the bunch.

Charles Bukowski
Aug 26, 2003



I love DS2.

wyoming
Jun 7, 2010

Like a television
tuned to a dead channel.


Mostly I'm just not digging the art direction of the game, just went through the Tower of Flame though, enjoyed the twilight Anor Londo sinking into the sea aesthetic.
Some of the combat changes are bizarre, hate the riposte thing, but it's mostly tight. And the level design is weeeeeak.
But after scratching the surface a bit, I'm either feeling the game more, or developing Stockholm Syndrome.
Either way, bring on the sins.

Guw
Jan 10, 2013



Just don't worry too much about the elevator. You'll know it when you see it.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


wyoming posted:

Mostly I'm just not digging the art direction of the game, just went through the Tower of Flame though, enjoyed the twilight Anor Londo sinking into the sea aesthetic.
Some of the combat changes are bizarre, hate the riposte thing, but it's mostly tight. And the level design is weeeeeak.
But after scratching the surface a bit, I'm either feeling the game more, or developing Stockholm Syndrome.
Either way, bring on the sins.

If you just did tower of flame you're only 2 levels in, maybe give it a bit before you jump to conclusions about it being the worst?

Lots of complaints can be made about DS2 but its a fantastic game still, and offers more level variety than most other souls games. Keep going.

If you were in DS1 you'd have seen asylum and burg, not exactly the most visually stimulating areas either! (You'd also see firelink which is amazing, but so is Majula? Majula is honestly one of the prettiest zones they've ever done, the art and sound builds a really welcoming atmosphere that strongly contrasts the rest of the game)

And for all DS2's sins (which are massively overrated) the DLC is so good it completely makes up or all of it and more.

RC Cola
Aug 1, 2011

Zo Cubs Zo!



I just beat Dark Souls 3 and am working on 2 right now. Should I go to Demon's Souls next or Dark Souls 1?

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



it doesn't matter

MMF Freeway
Sep 15, 2010

Well, to be honest, I'm not working all that hard really...


Go back in time and play ds1 first

WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.

I'm one of the cool people who bought DeS before DkS came with its DEEP LORE.

Both are fine. I prefer DeS.

Guw
Jan 10, 2013



WaltherFeng posted:

I'm one of the cool people who bought DeS before DkS came with its DEEP LORE.

Both are fine. I prefer DeS.

Same but I can definitely understand feeling like DaS is better if you played it first.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

Could people please stop fighting the avatar war over my avatar. I really appreciate people being nice about it but I'm feeling crappier that people are wasting money because someone is an asshole than I am about the avatar in the first place.


RC Cola posted:

I just beat Dark Souls 3 and am working on 2 right now. Should I go to Demon's Souls next or Dark Souls 1?

Both are amazing. DS1 is my all around favorite of the entire series, although both DS1 and DeS are going to feel old and clunky compared to 2 and 3, and also the graphics are far less refined. DS1 still manages to look beautiful because of heavy depth of field blur, but DeS doesn't get by as good and definitely looks like a PS3 game. Not that its unplayable or anything.

DS1 has one wholly-interconnected world, which is unbelievably immersive. There's several alternate paths and shortcuts and the way everything wraps around everything else is mind blowing. You can't warp around until you get towards the end of the game though, so you're stuck actually running back and forth, but that makes you appreciate the world more.

DeS is the opposite, its 5 seperate worlds you warp to with names like Mario levels; 1-1, 1-2, 2-1, 3-1, etc. You lose out on that "one big real world" feeling, but in return you get more variety and the convenience of being able to warp around if you get stuck, like in the later souls games.

Play both. Dunno what order, whatever you feel like.

Nanomashoes
Aug 18, 2012



Rookersh posted:

I mean it's also a darker game.

You don't fix Demon's Souls. You don't accomplish anything, or serve in a grand purpose. Everyone around you is dead, or about to die, and for what? Boletaria? Boletaria is gone. The whole thing is just this pointless revenge quest to kill the thing that destroyed the world.

Dark Souls....hasn't hit that point yet? Like it's a dead world but it isn't. You keep finding new Undead strewn about Lordran to help you in your quest, and they are all there for dumb selfish reasons, but humanist reasons. The world outside of Lordran still exists, this is just the quarantine zone for Undead mixed with the focal point for what caused the Undead curse. Stuff exists and happens outside of Lordran, life goes on, and will continue to go on. Even in such tragedy, money still needs to be made, people still want answers to questions, and jolly cooperation needs to go down. You also actually are taking constant steps to fix the problem, albeit in a way that doesn't quite "fix" it as you might have liked.

It's the same for Dark Souls 2 and 3.

There's very clearly a world beyond Boletaria that hasn't been swallowed by fog yet, putting the old one back to sleep saves it. Don't know why you think that's not fixing things.

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wyoming
Jun 7, 2010

Like a television
tuned to a dead channel.


Guw posted:

Just don't worry too much about the elevator. You'll know it when you see it.

The one in Lost Bastille? I ran like a baby from that.

Zaphod42 posted:

If you just did tower of flame you're only 2 levels in, maybe give it a bit before you jump to conclusions about it being the worst?

Like, I don't need to dump dozens of hours in something to critique it, and I really don't think it's controversial to say 2 is the worst souls.
But I meant the overall art direction of the game is garbage, not how exotic the locales are. And as for the level design, man, Undead Burg is one of the tightest levels in videogames, and Boletaria is fantastic too, finding the path back to the front gate was a huge reward both times.
The Forest of Fallen Giants is like an bowl of green spaghetti.

Guw posted:

Same but I can definitely understand feeling like DaS is better if you played it first.

Not sure which one I'd pick anymore, think I may have pumped more hours in Demon's at this point.

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