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Xenomorph
Jun 13, 2001


Philthy posted:

I never get prompted very often on my iMac. I turned off UAC in Vista because it was way too excessive. I plan on upgrading to Windows 7, so I guess I'll see if they've toned it down a poo poo ton or not.

fishmech posted:

Bro, you need to realize that this is because OS X apps have been part of a proper security system from the start. Where most of your Windows apps probably expect admin access all the time.

Yeah, what you said.

Mac OS X has enforced the "stay in your Home folder" thing since it started. Any app designed for Mac OS X is designed for "regular user, stay in home folder" type of use. So, less elevation prompts will be seen. Apple happily drops support for old software, so you're less likely to have trouble apps.

Windows, which tries to stay compatible with EVERY version ever released (it is only with the 64-bit versions that they are finally dropping the compatibility with Windows 1/2/3.xx versions of Windows!), started out using a very simple Single-User only style of "put your poo poo where you want, and hey things will work better if you put your poo poo in the SYSTEM location the OS uses" type of design.

Remember all the INI files in C:\WINDOWS ? all the DLL files every app would copy to C:\WINDOWS, windows\SYSTEM, and then windows\SYSTEM32?
Old programs, stuff that installed to locations like "C:\APPNAME", would then write their settings to "C:\APPNAME\APPNAME.INI" (where else would they put their settings back then? DOS/Windows was single-user, and there was no home folder.)
Then when things moved to "\Program Files", apps would STILL write their settings to the App folder.

Any application that still triggers UAC on launch is written with a Single-User, "Admin-Only" Windows 3.1/95/98 mentality. Isn't it time to loving DROP that style of writing software?

Any software designed for Windows 2000 and newer should know to put things in %AppData% only. Settings. Files. Everything. No UAC prompts then.

I'm loving shocked that software is still written today by any professional company that would trigger UAC during regular use.
What percentage of users are running something based on the DOS/9x kernel still?

UAC is something put in place by Microsoft to both protect the system and to weed out retarded software that is designed with older versions of Windows in mind. It's a great in-between tool that brings in a new era while still allowing old things to work.

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Thermopyle
Jul 1, 2003

...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. —Bertrand Russell



SecretFire posted:

Yeah except the part where they neutered the security aspects of UAC in Windows 7.

Except UAC isn't a security feature, per se. It's a convenience feature to let users run standard user accounts instead of admin accounts in an effort to push developers to programming in a more secure way.

Mark Russinovich, Technical Fellow, Microsoft posted:

The primary goal of UAC is to enable more users to run with standard user rights. However, one of UAC's technologies looks and smells like a security feature: the consent prompt. Many people believed that the fact that software has to ask the user to grant it administrative rights means that they can prevent malware from gaining administrative rights. Besides the visual implication that a prompt is a gateway to administrative rights for just the operation it describes, the switch to a different desktop for the elevation dialog and the use of the Windows Integrity Mechanism, including User Interface Privilege Isolation (UIPI), seem to reinforce that belief.

As we've stated since before the launch of Windows Vista, the primary purpose of elevation is not security, though, it's convenience: if users had to switch accounts to perform administrative operations, either by logging into or Fast User Switching to an administrative account, most users would switch once and not switch back. There would be no progress changing the environment that application developers design for.

ChronoBasher
Jul 2, 2007


I'm having a issue with Digsby on my taskbar. I've got it pinned, but whenever I open it, it still opens in a new icon on the bar.

PIC:


Any Digsby Win7 users have this issue?

Xenomorph
Jun 13, 2001


ChronoBasher posted:

I'm having a issue with Digsby on my taskbar. I've got it pinned, but whenever I open it, it still opens in a new icon on the bar.

PIC:


Any Digsby Win7 users have this issue?

That's usually an issue of an app having two EXE files.

Can you tell it to Pin the one it shows open, and then un-pin the other one?

WattsvilleBlues
Jan 25, 2005

Every demon wants his pound of flesh

Having a small problem with 7 Ultimate RTM - when I log in as a Standard user, the settings I tweak under Advanced System Settings (namely turning off the window fade in/out effect and shadows under windows) don't stay applied after I log off. What gives?

Edit: Sorted the problem by changing the account type to administrator, altering the settings, then changing the account back to standard. Irritating though.

WattsvilleBlues fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Sep 21, 2009

revolther
May 27, 2008


I remember having the same issue with digsby. I'm not sure if I just removed my old pinned taskbar item and pinned the active one, or if I fiddled with the preferences > Buddy List > Show in taskbar option. Try either of those?

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong


Every actual exploit that UAC stops in Vista, gets stopped by 7's default UAC settings, so I fail to see how this makes it neutered. Also those things you linked seem to cover only the 7000 beta build and the 7100 RC build, and none of the builds in between 7100 and the RTM, or the RTM itself for that matter. It could have been disabled in build 7127 for all you can tell from that.

And even if it is true? You're still far safer with UAC on than with it off!

ChronoBasher
Jul 2, 2007


Xenomorph posted:

That's usually an issue of an app having two EXE files.

Can you tell it to Pin the one it shows open, and then un-pin the other one?

revolther posted:

I remember having the same issue with digsby. I'm not sure if I just removed my old pinned taskbar item and pinned the active one,

Yep, that did it. Thank you

Lum
Aug 13, 2003



The Gasmask posted:

Even though my machine is older 7 runs extremely smooth, which is in part caused by the upgrade to a 64-bit OS. Still having some trouble recognizing anything more than 3.5 GB of RAM though (there's 4GB in the system). Games run great, faster than on XP, so I can finally play Prototype at more than 10fps.

Does your PC have onboard graphics by any chance? It's possible that you have the sort of onboard graphics that uses your main memory as video memory (this is often configurable in the BIOS)

The irony here is that the 32bit 4gb limit is a limit on the total memory in your system (main memory, video memory and a few other little things) so in the case of a machine where main memory is used for video memory you actually stand a good chance of having the whole 4gb available to you on a 32bit OS.

quote:

On a slightly less cool note, I've noticed that Windows has trouble with applications that need to restart during the install. Instead of picking up where it left off it starts the process over again, meaning that I can't install the programs. Not critical, but it is annoying.

Are you trying to install Daemon Tools by any chance?

fishmech posted:

Every actual exploit that UAC stops in Vista, gets stopped by 7's default UAC settings, so I fail to see how this makes it neutered. Also those things you linked seem to cover only the 7000 beta build and the 7100 RC build, and none of the builds in between 7100 and the RTM, or the RTM itself for that matter. It could have been disabled in build 7127 for all you can tell from that.

To be fair. I'm running RTM and just tried one of the examples. I opened MS Paint, browsed to C:\Program Files and did right click -> New Folder. It had the little shield icon to say that this is a privilidged operation but went ahead and did it without throwing up a UAC prompt.

You could knock up a quick auto-it script to exploit that

Lum fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Sep 21, 2009

Factor Mystic
Mar 19, 2006

Baby's First Post-Apocalyptic Fiction

Lum posted:

You could knock up a quick auto-it script to exploit that

Which, if you've downloaded from the internet, you've already clicked OK to a "THIS CAME FROM THE INTERNET IS IT OKAY?!??" message, and if you've put UAC to it's top (Vista) setting, you see a UAC prompt too.

Phenwah
Feb 3, 2003



univbee posted:

Q: How will upgrade installs work? Will the previous OS have to be installed?

A:
Apparently, whatever OS you had originally will have to be installed AND ACTIVATED prior to upgrading. The Windows Vista reinstall trick will apparently NOT be in here. (This is according to this link, and it's possible the information may not be entirely accurate).
With upgrade licenses, I get that, if my HDD explodes, I'll need to reinstall XP onto a replacement drive before I can reinstall 7. But if my computer starts running sluggishly and the solution is to do a clean 7 install over itself, do I still have to wipe, reinstall XP, and wipe again, or does 7 Home -> 7 Home count as an "upgrade"?

EDIT: or "insert XP CD and type in license when prompted during 7 install" in place of "reinstall XP" as that link suggests, assuming that works.

Phenwah fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Sep 21, 2009

100 HOGS AGREE
Oct 13, 2007

by Nyc_Tattoo


Grimey Drawer

ChronoBasher posted:

I'm having a issue with Digsby on my taskbar. I've got it pinned, but whenever I open it, it still opens in a new icon on the bar.

PIC:


Any Digsby Win7 users have this issue?
Yes, what you need to do is open an IM window to one of your contacts and pin that instead.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

Footboy posted:

With upgrade licenses, I get that, if my HDD explodes, I'll need to reinstall XP onto a replacement drive before I can reinstall 7. But if my computer starts running sluggishly and the solution is to do a clean 7 install over itself, do I still have to wipe, reinstall XP, and wipe again, or does 7 Home -> 7 Home count as an "upgrade"?

EDIT: or "insert XP CD and type in license when prompted during 7 install" in place of "reinstall XP" as that link suggests, assuming that works.

IF your PC starts running sluggishly use CCleaner or something. Much less hassle.

Edit: Because otherwise you aren't fixing anything. The only reason your computer is "slowed down" is because you had a bunch of crap installed and running. After a clean install you're eventually just going to install all that crap again. Frankly, most or maybe all of the "slowdown" you think you experience isn't real anyway.

fishmech fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Sep 21, 2009

Phenwah
Feb 3, 2003



Sorry, I should've said "becomes infected" instead of "runs sluggishly." I'm more concerned about my parents' machine.

Phenwah fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Sep 21, 2009

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

Footboy posted:

Sorry, I should've said "becomes infected" instead of "runs sluggishly." I'm more concerned about my parents' machine.

Use a free hard drive imager program on your parents' machine after you set it up, and restore that image if their PC gets infected.

Lum
Aug 13, 2003



Factor Mystic posted:

Which, if you've downloaded from the internet, you've already clicked OK to a "THIS CAME FROM THE INTERNET IS IT OKAY?!??" message, and if you've put UAC to it's top (Vista) setting, you see a UAC prompt too.

Or I could stick it on a USB key, set it to autorun and then give it to you and if you haven't messed with the defaults, which most people wont, then when you plug it in it'll mess with your poo poo automatically.

BEAR GRYLLZ
Jul 30, 2006

I have strong erections for Israel.
Strong, pathetic erections.



Lum posted:

Or I could stick it on a USB key, set it to autorun and then give it to you and if you haven't messed with the defaults, which most people wont, then when you plug it in it'll mess with your poo poo automatically.

Yeah or you could kidnap somebody, torture the admin password out of him, and do whatever you want with his computer. Why can't UAC stop that?

Lum
Aug 13, 2003



BEAR GRYLLZ posted:

Yeah or you could kidnap somebody, torture the admin password out of him, and do whatever you want with his computer. Why can't UAC stop that?

That'd take somewhat more time and effort than preparing a 5 minute exploit and handing it to someone on a USB key and telling them it's the new Harry Potter movie or whatever.

illicitporpoises
May 16, 2006



I guess maybe if you're not applying any security updates. Going back to XP SP3, they've fixed this. Even on vanilla Vista installs, the default was to prompt.

Pilsner
Nov 23, 2002



Xenomorph posted:

Any application that still triggers UAC on launch is written with a Single-User, "Admin-Only" Windows 3.1/95/98 mentality. Isn't it time to loving DROP that style of writing software?

Any software designed for Windows 2000 and newer should know to put things in %AppData% only. Settings. Files. Everything. No UAC prompts then.

Call me old school, but I MUCH prefer it when apps write their settings to an ini/xml/whatever file in their old folder. It makes it so much easier to backup and restore settings across machines.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

I'd be really happy if Microsoft just got rid of the registry entirely. Just have plain text files in UAC protected folders, and every program keeps all its settings either in program files or user editable settings in a standardized place in the user folder. It would be super awesome if I could just extract everything to one folder, and then have it set up whatever files it needs in my user folder. Then everything is in one or two spots and I can just delete it all when I am done with the program.

Instead of running the uninstaller, except whoops some file might have been deleted by something else and the uninstaller shits its pants and it can't finish. So now I am stuck with registry keys and dlls and all kinds of crap hidden throughout my computer. Not to mention having to guess if they put files in Application Data or Local Settings\Application data and then hope I know who the developer was because that's the name of the folder the data is in. I shouldn't have to run Ccleaner after an uninstall to make sure everything is gone.

Then I could kick UAC up to max and not have to worry about prompts all the time except when I am adding a new program or doing updates.

EVGA Longoria
Dec 25, 2005

Let's go exploring!



Pilsner posted:

Call me old school, but I MUCH prefer it when apps write their settings to an ini/xml/whatever file in their old folder. It makes it so much easier to backup and restore settings across machines.

Pretty sure backing up just %Appdata% and restoring it to restore ALL settings is easier then doing it one at a time. And even still, the only reason %Appdata% would be less convenient than Program Files is because apps still use Program Files, making you go to a second location.

lazydog
Apr 15, 2003


I just noticed a new feature of Windows 7, don't know if its been mentioned here yet.

You can change your audio hardware settings on the fly.
I have a USB headset, and with Vista or XP, I had to make sure the headset was plugged in prior to starting a game, otherwise it played through my speakers. 7 reroutes it immediately without you having to restart your programs.

You Am I
May 20, 2001

I will decide who posts John Howard pictures in this thread and the circumstances in which they post.


Xenomorph posted:

I end up blanking my password before doing a lot of system changes in Linux or Mac OS X just to cut down on how annoying the prompts are (which just makes those "Mac vs PC" commercials that must more retarded considering Apple made fun of Vista's UAC prompts when it had a lot more annoying prompts in Mac OS X).
Linux desktops are making GBS threads for their prompts, but I have no where near the number of "security" prompts in OSX than what I have on my Windows 7 desktop.

But that all and said, once you have you settings done in both OSes, you usually don't get any prompts all that often.

Shrieking Muppet
Jul 16, 2006


KaLogain posted:

I had this exact same problem. I installed the latest Intel Matrix Storage Manager and it solved it.

Worked like a charm, thanks a lot.

Factor Mystic
Mar 19, 2006

Baby's First Post-Apocalyptic Fiction

Lum posted:

Or I could stick it on a USB key, set it to autorun and then give it to you and if you haven't messed with the defaults, which most people wont, then when you plug it in it'll mess with your poo poo automatically.

You can't stop someone with physical access. This is basically equivalent to physical access, and the Vista/7 default is to not run whatever is set on the media to autorun, whoops.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

You Am I posted:

Linux desktops are making GBS threads for their prompts, but I have no where near the number of "security" prompts in OSX than what I have on my Windows 7 desktop.

But that all and said, once you have you settings done in both OSes, you usually don't get any prompts all that often.

fishmech posted:

Bro, you need to realize that this is because OS X apps have been part of a proper security system from the start. Where most of your Windows apps probably expect admin access all the time.

Plaque Conspiracy
May 9, 2005


Anyone else here been selected to host a windows 7 launch party?

I wonder if they'll actually send me my copy :/ there seem to be a lot of people hosting.

The Gasmask
Nov 30, 2006

Breaking fingers like fractals

Lum posted:

Does your PC have onboard graphics by any chance? It's possible that you have the sort of onboard graphics that uses your main memory as video memory (this is often configurable in the BIOS)
Hmm, I never thought about this. I don't believe my system has onboard graphics, but I'll check that out. If it does, this might be an easier fix than I thought.


quote:

Are you trying to install Daemon Tools by any chance?

Yeah, that and Alcohol 120%. I had Alcohol installed, it was working, but for some reason (I can't figure out why), I uninstalled it. Going back and trying to reinstall, I ran into the issue of the SPTD driver not installing properly. I found some instructions saying to delete a registry key and delete the SPTD.sys file, before installing the drivers with the official SPTD tool, but that didn't work. Then tried Daemon Tools, but I hit the same issue.

Charles Martel
Mar 7, 2007

"The Hero of the Age..."

The hero of all ages


The Gasmask posted:

Yeah, that and Alcohol 120%. I had Alcohol installed, it was working, but for some reason (I can't figure out why), I uninstalled it. Going back and trying to reinstall, I ran into the issue of the SPTD driver not installing properly. I found some instructions saying to delete a registry key and delete the SPTD.sys file, before installing the drivers with the official SPTD tool, but that didn't work. Then tried Daemon Tools, but I hit the same issue.

FWIW, I've had the free version of Alcohol 52% installed on Windows 7 here with zero problems.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

I've been using Virtual CloneDrive for a while. It installs no problem, with no restarts. It mounts everything I need with no problems. It's skimpy on settings (there really aren't any) but I never have a need for them in Daemon Tools or Alcohol. And those programs just annoy me with all the extra crap anyway.

The Gasmask
Nov 30, 2006

Breaking fingers like fractals

Awesome! Virtual CloneDrive works perfectly, thank you.

BaronVanAwesome
Sep 11, 2001

I will never learn the secrets of "Increased fake female boar sp..."

Never say never, buddy.
Now you know.
Now we all know.


Plaque Conspiracy posted:

Anyone else here been selected to host a windows 7 launch party?

I wonder if they'll actually send me my copy :/ there seem to be a lot of people hosting.

Just finished my party info and whatnot, seems like I got through and "won" a spot to host.

Ironically I think I am one of the 10 people who will unironically actually be hosting a fun shindig and not just skimming for a free copy of Win7

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

Do you actually have to throw a party? Sounds like a slickdeals or fatwallet rush.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

INSERT QUACK TO CONTINUE





Taco Defender

Plaque Conspiracy posted:

Anyone else here been selected to host a windows 7 launch party?

I wonder if they'll actually send me my copy :/ there seem to be a lot of people hosting.

I'm confirmed, even though in my app I said I wouldn't be meeting some of their requirements (my apartment's too small for 10 people, for instance). I think they're just picking groups of people randomly and then whoever signs up first in each batch gets in.

I'm still going to be hosting a party, but this is going to be more of an excuse to do that rather than the actual focus.

DJ Commie
Feb 29, 2004

Stupid drivers always breaking car, Gronk fix car...


Haven't found the answer in the thread, so I'll ask.


I'm trying to change the taskbar button characteristics, but the 3 settings it allows you (Always combine hide labels, Combine when taskbar is full, and never combine) aren't what I want. I want to always combine app buttons but still keep the text labels.

Xenomorph
Jun 13, 2001


I was working on a few more things for XdN Tweaker.

One feature (shown) toggles the display of the regional themes. I have no clue how it works in locations other than those mentioned (en-AU, en-CA, en-GB, en-US, en-ZA).
So right now I have it do this:
When you click Enable (themes or wallpaper), it tries to add all.
When you click Disable (themes or wallpaper), it will try to disable all except the one for your region, since that is the one that should have been enabled on a default installation.
I'm not sure what to do for other locales. Perhaps disable all that were added, since I'm guessing you may have some other one enabled.

Another thing is to toggle off/on the "Libraries" folder on the left side of the Explorer windows. Some people don't use them and may want that folder removed.

One thing I'm putting in for XP/Vista/Win7 is an improved method for disabling AutoRun/AutoPlay.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002


Jade Ear Joe

Yeah I'm in on the Win7 thing as well. Going to try to do it during our beer:30 at work.

macka_x
Feb 3, 2004
Litany of Curses

I've been given the green light for the party, in Australia we miss out on the decorations and whatnot. I guess I should whine about that and disregard the free copy of windows thats supposed to arrive. I'm sure someone will.

Anyway, just curious as to what the 'signiture edition' part of these scheme is supposed to mean. Bill Gates I suppose. Did the past signature editions have actual signatures or just a printed thing on the cover? It's that or signature edition means a crippled version of windows 7 that turns itself off after a few months. Fingers crossed it's the former.

Also, is it a standalone install or an upgrade. I think I'll have a hunt and see. I'd better check to see if my asus F3F actually supports the 64bit install as well (Edit, so SecurAble gives me a big fat fail on 64bit)

macka_x fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Sep 22, 2009

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Umph
Apr 25, 2008



Im not sure but this might have been a gray area question. Better safe then sorry.

Umph fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Sep 22, 2009

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