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EVGA Longoria
Dec 25, 2005

Let's go exploring!



2004:
"Microsoft's monopoly allows them to pushed Windows Media Player onto users! We want a version without it." *Nobody gives a flying gently caress and buys the full version*

2009:

"Microsoft's monopoly is giving them browser dominance!"

So Microsoft's response? gently caress Europe, no browsers for ANY of you. I love it. Maybe the EU can shut the gently caress up already, all this does is cripple the OS out of the box.

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Ziir
Nov 20, 2004

by Ozmaugh


BOOM! DOCTA WATSON posted:

"oops meant to click the start button but minimized all my windows instead"

Umm, in all of my installations of XP and Vista, my show desktop button has always been next to the start button. I have never hit it by mistake, and especially with Vista I don't even need to manually press start (windows key + search).

So whatever, maybe it's too hard for you but it's perfectly natural for me. In fact, I think if you turn on the quick launch toolbar it always comes up right next to the start button.

Furthermore, maybe it's just me but I never, ever have my mouse cursor anywhere near my bottom right corner.

All Too Much For Me
Aug 14, 2008


BangersInMyKnickers posted:

Do you have an audigy card? I managed to largely fix that by routing the audio through the Alchemy layer and doing some minor fiddling with those settings.

Nope, just a crappy HDaudio chipset.
I might pick up an actual soundcard eventually though.

Bleepblorp3587
Jun 1, 2003


Casao posted:

So Microsoft's response? gently caress Europe, no browsers for ANY of you. I love it. Maybe the EU can shut the gently caress up already, all this does is cripple the OS out of the box.
EU: Don't include IE

Microsoft: Ok

Goons: owned Europe!!!

Why does any mention of Europe actually enforcing its rulings against Microsoft, unlike the DOJ, turn SH/SC posters into retards?

syphon posted:

EDIT: I wonder if they care that OSX comes with Safari, or that most Linux distros come with Firefox (or Konqueror or whatever).
Obviously not, because neither are anywhere near having a monopoly on the OS market.

EVGA Longoria
Dec 25, 2005

Let's go exploring!



Irish Bandit posted:

EU: Don't include IE

Microsoft: Ok

Goons: owned Europe!!!

Why does any mention of Europe actually enforcing its rulings against Microsoft, unlike the DOJ, turn SH/SC posters into retards.

Because the EU is picking the dumbest solution to the problem.

Problem: OEMs aren't including non-IE browsers
Solution: Don't include IE.

Wait, what?

tijag
Aug 6, 2002


Is there an easier way to add locations to the 'send to' right click dialog than browsing to the user folder and dropping shortcut's in?

This feels very... Windows 98ish, and it really seems like there should be some sort of built in wizard which allows you to do this without having to gain control over protected folders.

Unexpected EOF
Dec 8, 2008

I'm a Bro-ny!

Casao posted:

Because the EU is picking the dumbest solution to the problem.

Problem: OEMs aren't including non-IE browsers
Solution: Don't include IE.

Wait, what?

You see, it's Microsoft's fault that most users are idiots, furthermore

LooseChanj
Feb 17, 2006

Logicaaaaaaaaal!


Xenomorph posted:

I know what I'll be running on it on my personal machine.

Ancient, DOS-only self-extractors.

I use dosbox for those.

Baggins
Feb 21, 2007

Like a Great Wind!


Working drivers for the SoundMax AD1988 and possibly other SoundMax cards found!

ftp://ftp.asus.com.tw/pub/ASUS/misc...B_6570_Win7.zip

This finally managed to pick up me plugging stuff into the various jacks and the sound control panel now identifies everything properly. Just run the setup as admin and reboot.

Been getting some crashes in games here and there as well befoer I updated, so hopefully this will fix it.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

I love how all that "removing IE8" means is "removing ability to start it up as a standalone browser".

Stuntman Mike
Apr 14, 2007
The saucer people are coming!

I'm having a problem moving through directories in cmd in the RC. See below:





What the gently caress? This has never happened before. I've tried running cmd both with and without admin privileges.

Kameleon
Jan 10, 2006

gay for johnny deLOL BAT COUNTRY



Just type:

n:<enter>

As it has always been.

Stuntman Mike posted:

I'm having a problem moving through directories in cmd in the RC. See below:





What the gently caress? This has never happened before. I've tried running cmd both with and without admin privileges.

e: quoted for posterity

Mensur
Aug 1, 2007

EnGAYge!


.

Mensur fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Jun 14, 2013

Mensur
Aug 1, 2007

EnGAYge!


.

Mensur fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Jun 14, 2013

jammyozzy
Dec 7, 2006

Is that a challenge?

Well poo poo, edited for retardedness and lack of reading comprehension.

jammyozzy fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jun 12, 2009

Stuntman Mike
Apr 14, 2007
The saucer people are coming!

Mensur posted:

It's a bug with 7 that those assholes at M$ refuse to fix. They only care about pandering to the masses anymore and no longer give us power users a decent set of tools. I hear it's going to be the same in RTM.

Fine. Make fun of me, I suppose I'd do the same.

This is the first time I've even opened cmd in god knows how long. Thanks for the obvious answer to my idiocy, guys.


NIGARS
Sep 12, 2004

yeah nigars

Stuntman Mike posted:



This fuckin bug has been around since fuckin MS-DOS 1.1!! Can you believe they still haven't fixed it?!

I ended up giving up on Windows 7 on my current PC (A64 3200+, nforce4, 2GB, 8800GT). Something to do with that configuration just meant absolutely ratshit performance in games with any kind of sound enabled (50% or less than what I get in XP). I tried four different sound cards too. It's a shame, because I really liked it. Guess I'll give it a go whenever I upgrade to something more modern.

hey0
Mar 25, 2009


Stuntman Mike posted:

I'm having a problem moving through directories in cmd in the RC. See below:





What the gently caress? This has never happened before. I've tried running cmd both with and without admin privileges.

If you really want to use cd to change drives do it like so:
code:
cd /d n:

Spekkio
Sep 23, 2005

Really satisfying music!

anyone know how to remove the prefix from special folders?

Like "My" Documents or "Brett's" Documents.

kapinga
Oct 12, 2005

I am not a number

jammyozzy posted:

Christ the EU can be loving retarded sometimes, that's the worst possible solution anybody could have come up with.


Making it even harder to get hold of alternative browsers for the average user? It's easy enough to save an installer to a flash drive before hand, but still, Good work EU. Hopefully Microsoft will kick up a huge stink about this now and get it into everybody's heads that their hands are tied or this could turn into "ARRRRRGH VISTA SUCKS!!!" round 2.

For clarity, the EU did NOT demand MS remove IE from the browser, MS is doing that unilaterally.

The reason that MS is doing so is because they (rightly, IMO) do not want to be in any way associated with the competing browsers. The EU knows that simply removing the browser is a bad solution, for all the reasons outlined here (how does a new user go about getting an alternate browser without first installing IE anyways?). They were therefore considering requiring MS to provide direct links and/or installers for IE's main competitors.

However, since MS is removing IE altogether, it removes the EU's leg to stand on regarding the whole thing. By not including any browser, MS cannot be accused of abusing their monopoly position, nor do they have to support/promote competitor products.

The awesome/ballsy move was to remove it from ALL copies of Win7 in Europe, rather than just doing the Vista N route. By removing the option of any browser what-so-ever for ~5% of the market (direct retail sales) it acts to remind everyone in Europe that this particular suit maybe wasn't really the best option for consumers.

I was half expecting the EU to go ahead and force other browsers anyways, but it appears the whole thing worked: EU reponse.

ElProducto
Oct 9, 2001
if you want to live low, live low

When are people going to address the real problem: the Notepad monopoly!

EVGA Longoria
Dec 25, 2005

Let's go exploring!



http://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/0...o-your-taskbar/

Very fun.

URL grey tea
Jun 1, 2004

IT'S A SAD THING THAT YOUR ADVENTURES HAVE ENDED HERE!!


http://www.osnews.com/story/21653/M...Windows_7_s_UAC

Short version: Move the UAC slider to the highest setting and use a standard user account if you want anything to be remotely secure.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

Orange Juilius posted:

http://www.osnews.com/story/21653/M...Windows_7_s_UAC

Short version: Move the UAC slider to the highest setting and use a standard user account if you want anything to be remotely secure.

UAC Virtualkiztion still stops tons of exploits dead in their tracks even with UAC at the lowest on setting and a user blindly approving everything.

biznatchio
Mar 31, 2001



Buglord

Orange Juilius posted:

Short version: Move the UAC slider to the highest setting and use a standard user account if you want anything to be remotely secure.

Welcome to two years ago.

UAC on admin accounts is a hurdle, not a brick wall. The whole point of UAC in the first place is to force software makers to write their programs so they run under normal user privileges (which is what you basically get even as an unescalated admin user without resorting to dirty tricks) by making them look bad with UAC prompts when they don't.

Once software that plays nice under UAC is commonplace, regular user accounts can become the default account setup in Windows and the full security benefits can be enjoyed.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


beejay posted:

I find I am not even using the desktop in Windows 7, and I used the desktop for everything in XP.

Yeah I've noticed this too. When an icon appears on the desktop after an install without asking me whether or not I wanted it, I get kind of pissed off. I'm enjoying having nothing on there and using whatever the 7 version of spotlight is called and a sensibly auto arranged start menu.

kri kri
Jul 18, 2007



Anyone know what could be causing this? I am trying to delete this folder that I can obviously see but Win 7 thinks its not there.

Stuntman Mike
Apr 14, 2007
The saucer people are coming!

kri kri posted:

Anyone know what could be causing this? I am trying to delete this folder that I can obviously see but Win 7 thinks its not there.



To salvage some of my dignity I think I can answer this one. Sometimes I find that win7 won't show you that it deleted a file or folder right away. Refresh the window and it should disappear.

VideoTapir
Oct 18, 2005

He'll tire eventually.


The only problem I'm still having is windows 7 not liking my external HD. (It keeps wanting to format it and telling me it can't use it without doing so...and yet when I browse to it it works just fine)

Otherwise, for me it's been about as stable as XP (but not as good as 2000 was...even on my current machine), and most importantly, when one process starts crawling, it isn't as prone to drag everything else down with it. TF2 framerates might drop, but otherwise things stay pretty responsive.

Overall I'm liking it. Definitely a step forward.

And what with MS recently having made its first actual useful innovation (well, as far as I know it was an actual innovation) with that folding mouse, I'd say they're on a roll.

(just posting because all of a sudden the pieces just snapped together to form a concrete opinion, and I felt the need to share it)

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

IF I JUST LICK ENOUGH BOOT LEATHER, BIG DADDY TRUMP WILL SURELY LOVE ME

Stutes posted:

News for any European purchasers of Windows 7: retail copies of the OS will not include ANY browser.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...et-explorer.ars
OMG I'm crying over here from laughing so hard.
Have fun trying to download and install a browser...without a browser.
Won't do anything for OEM or corp computers, but they really need to setup a splash screen to tell people where to direct their hatemail to (EU anti-trust division).

Priam
Jun 27, 2004



Is there any way to reduce the space between icons on the taskbar when you have small icons selected? It seems like a lot of space is simply going to waste because there's a ton of space in between the icons.

ElProducto
Oct 9, 2001
if you want to live low, live low

Priam posted:

Is there any way to reduce the space between icons on the taskbar when you have small icons selected? It seems like a lot of space is simply going to waste because there's a ton of space in between the icons.

As you add more they will get closer together.

Factor Mystic
Mar 19, 2006

Baby's First Post-Apocalyptic Fiction

You guys know that they'll probably just be a disabled feature by default, not actually purged from the system, right? As in, what you can turn on and off in the more recent builds.

Casull
Aug 13, 2005



Factor Mystic posted:

You guys know that they'll probably just be a disabled feature by default, not actually purged from the system, right? As in, what you can turn on and off in the more recent builds.

I dunno, the article makes it seem as if IE8 just won't be there, period. Why else would Microsoft offer it via FTP, retail channels, and CDs?

Syllogism
Jun 7, 2001

We have listened. We are unmoved. The cleansing will proceed.

kapinga posted:

The awesome/ballsy move was to remove it from ALL copies of Win7 in Europe, rather than just doing the Vista N route. By removing the option of any browser what-so-ever for ~5% of the market (direct retail sales) it acts to remind everyone in Europe that this particular suit maybe wasn't really the best option for consumers.

I was half expecting the EU to go ahead and force other browsers anyways, but it appears the whole thing worked: EU reponse.
Most consumers won't notice a thing and the ones that do probably approve. There certainly won't be any sort of backslash for enforcing the antitrust laws approriately.

e: furthermore it's not like it can be known for a long time if this was "the best option" for consumers

e2: Opera doesn't approve http://www.computerworld.com/action...ticleId=9134286

Syllogism fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Jun 12, 2009

toxick
Oct 20, 2008


If MS is smart, upon first boot, the IE-less version of Win7 will display a notice explaining that, due to EU restrictions, they weren't allowed to include IE by default, but it's available any time for download and install via Windows Update.

I'm not an MS fan by any means, but these EU restrictions are ridiculous.

LooseChanj
Feb 17, 2006

Logicaaaaaaaaal!


toxick posted:

it's available any time for download and install via Windows Update.

This thought is what had me chuckling at all the chicken or the egg "how the hell is somebody going to d/l a browser without a browser" comments over the past few pages. Windows Update already has third party drivers, why not third party web browsers? It would also be trivial to include installers for several browsers like they did with online services back in Win95. It's a non-issue on a technical level.

big mean giraffe
Dec 13, 2003

Eat Shit and Die


Lipstick Apathy


Start menu search already returns control panel items, what's the point?

EVGA Longoria
Dec 25, 2005

Let's go exploring!



big mean giraffe posted:

Start menu search already returns control panel items, what's the point?

Some people are clickers and not typers.

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kapinga
Oct 12, 2005

I am not a number

LooseChanj posted:

This thought is what had me chuckling at all the chicken or the egg "how the hell is somebody going to d/l a browser without a browser" comments over the past few pages. Windows Update already has third party drivers, why not third party web browsers? It would also be trivial to include installers for several browsers like they did with online services back in Win95. It's a non-issue on a technical level.

Yes, but do you really expect Microsoft to offer hosting and downloads for one of their direct competitors. It's not like MS is competing at all with the nVidia or ATI drivers they offer to download. If they were going to go that route, they would have stated it as such, not "There will be no browser included."

Syllogism posted:

Most consumers won't notice a thing and the ones that do probably approve. There certainly won't be any sort of backslash for enforcing the antitrust laws approriately.

e: furthermore it's not like it can be known for a long time if this was "the best option" for consumers

e2: Opera doesn't approve http://www.computerworld.com/action...ticleId=9134286

Wait, how any of the ~5% of sales that comes from direct retail sales not notice that there's no browser? It's not like you can accidentally miss you're no longer able to browse to mozilla.org to download the latest version of Firefox. Or if you are so oblivious, how can you not notice that your default browser of IE is no longer available?

At best, the "best' option for the consumer would be to force MS to provide the other browsers, but at some point MS should (and does, apparently) have the right to say 'gently caress that' and just not offer anything instead. I fail to see how the current situation will help consumers, but the EU can't really do anything about it.

Nor is it like MS has some indomitable lead in the browser marketplace. Firefox has >28% of the market share, while IE has less than 70%. And this has been fairly steadily increasing for Firefox. I hardly see how the market now warrants intervention, but the one three years ago did not.

And it's not like this changes much from the OEM perspective. OEMs have had the option to install alternate browsers for at least a decade, yet primarily do not do so. How does this change that situation - IE8 will still be free for them to add to the install image?

And your last point, of course Opera doesn't like it, they're the whiners who got this suit started in the first place, as your article mentions. Ars:

quote:

Opera wants the EC to take two actions against Microsoft in response to the complaint. The first is fairly predictable: force Microsoft to either unbundle Internet Explorer from Windows or to have alternative browsers preinstalled on the desktop. The idea, of course, is that Opera would be one of those alternative browsers.
Now that MS has chosen option one, it turns out that isn't what Opera wanted at all. What they really wanted was to force MS to advertise for them, for free.

Curiously, despite Firefox's success, Opera has yet to get out of the 1-2% market share. It occurs to me that it's not just Microsoft's fault that Opera isn't popular, and they want the EU to fix it for them anyways. It looks like the EU is happy to at least try.

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