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KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






LRADIKAL posted:

Everything you guys are posting is cheap consumer crap for tin eared morons. Not to mention your ignorance of interconnects.

I post pro audio stuff in here because it will get lost in the "first home audio system" thread.

Edit:

Wow, what a lovely snipe.

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KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


KillHour posted:

Quick question: What's the difference between the PA2 and the 260? They're both under 500 on Amazon.

I think the 260 is more configurable when it comes to routing and possibly crossover, to use two in mono mode probably. And it has delay/alignment functions, which I don't think the PA2 has.

Also an RS-232 interface

movax
Aug 30, 2008



KillHour posted:

I post pro audio stuff in here because it will get lost in the "first home audio system" thread.

Edit:

Wow, what a lovely snipe.

I'm thinking its a

But seriously, don't forget your unicorn foreskin XLR cables.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






movax posted:

I'm thinking its a

But seriously, don't forget your unicorn foreskin XLR cables.

Unicorn foreskin cables are what caused the Behringer to break. I have to switch to adamantium conductors with dragon eggshell insulators now.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









The mistake is using XLR in the first place, XLR isn't available with emerald OR sapphire housing and if that wasn't bad enough the latching system doesn't even come close to the typical six M12 bolts.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






taqueso posted:

The mistake is using XLR in the first place, XLR isn't available with emerald OR sapphire housing and if that wasn't bad enough the latching system doesn't even come close to the typical six M12 bolts.

XLR has 3 conductors. How can something with 3 conductors ever be balanced? You need a more balanced number of conductors - like 16. Buy my new 16-conductor interconnect* cables. Only $10,000/foot.

*16 conductor interconnects only compatible with proprietary equipment

Neurophonic
May 2, 2009


The DBX units are pure overpriced, low functionality trash and sound terrible. If you buy a new unit from them be prepared to modify it internally at a later date.

As much as it might not be ideal, you’d be better off finding a Chinese import. Something from dBmark would be a good shout. There’ll be a seller on eBay somewhere.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


I'm sure you have actual proof of this supposedly bad sound quality this time?

You know, something verifiable instead of baseless poo poo slinging?

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007








Checks out.

stevewm
May 10, 2005


KillHour posted:



Checks out.

Really surprised to not see a "Netscape Navigator" banner in that screenshot.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



The Links icon is actually the Apple Finder one, so you're not far off with your expectation!

Pile Of Garbage
May 28, 2007





KillHour posted:



Checks out.

Nice Winamp skin

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



Idgi, this is the ridicule audiophile thread, and that says digital.

On $other_audio_forum the other day I saw someone questioning the validity of abx testing on the grounds that they were an engineer who had done some impressive things for the army, and thus were very smart. Though at this point I'm coming to think that's not an issue with audiophiles but with engineers.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






Some Goon posted:

Idgi, this is the ridicule audiophile thread, and that says digital.

We're currently on a tangent ridiculing Neurophonic.

Some Goon posted:

On $other_audio_forum the other day I saw someone questioning the validity of abx testing on the grounds that they were an engineer who had done some impressive things for the army, and thus were very smart. Though at this point I'm coming to think that's not an issue with audiophiles but with engineers.

"I'm good at x, therefore I'm incredibly smart at all things" is a common issue with extremely specialized careers. See also: Ben Carson.

KillHour fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Aug 21, 2020

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


KillHour posted:


"I'm good at x, therefore I'm incredibly smart at all things" is a common issue with extremely specialized careers. See also: Ben Carson.

Literally anyone in IT.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






KozmoNaut posted:

Literally anyone in IT.

It hurts because it's true

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

- Ska du ha maito i kaffet?


Audiophiles are fail.

Mr. Funny Pants
Apr 9, 2001



KillHour posted:

"I'm good at x, therefore I'm incredibly smart at all things" is a common issue with extremely specialized careers. See also: Ben Carson.

More than 20 years ago I watched a documentary on PBS about a neurosurgeon who helped people with incurable and massive seizures. The show had him working with a family whose little girl almost couldn't live because the seizures were so frequent and debilitating. The treatment was a hemispherectomy, they literally cut out a massive portion of the brain. It had negative consequences but overall fixed the issue. I remember being blown away by the doctor's intelligence and skill.

Decades later I see this cartoonishly stupid idiot named Ben Carson getting lots of time on TV and HOLY poo poo IT"S THAT BRILLIANT GUY I SAW A LONG TIME AGO. WHAT THE gently caress.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

I got a Chord Mojo to test from a friend. Its a lot of money, $400-500 for a dac/headphone amp.

I tested it.

I like my LG G7 better.

movax
Aug 30, 2008



redeyes posted:

I got a Chord Mojo to test from a friend. Its a lot of money, $400-500 for a dac/headphone amp.

I tested it.

I like my LG G7 better.

I have seen the Mojo mentioned a lot but never really looked into what it was.

A Artix-7 and probably some Atmel SAM MCU... so what exactly is still doing the DAC stage? FPGA into R2R or ? Lol at its power budget / being portable.

Just put an AK4499 down and call it good.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007








It's so good, but there's a loving spec behind the plastic in the screen and it's going to drive me crazy forever.

I'm also worried about the screen fading leaving it on 24/7. I don't see a way to turn it off.

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001
$10


Fun Shoe

Looks like a backlit LCD, should last a long time. It's very basic old technology, like any audiophile gear should be!

Neurophonic
May 2, 2009


KozmoNaut posted:

I'm sure you have actual proof of this supposedly bad sound quality this time?

You know, something verifiable instead of baseless poo poo slinging?

Yes, I own one of each type. The DR260 was my first LMS, which was 16 years ago. It was old then.

You’re welcome to directly A-B compare them to another unit. The filter maths is bad so the values you enter don’t correlate to other units, it has a very high noise floor, the ‘limiters’ on the PA2 introduce distortion, and I’ve had to solder the mains supply directly to the board for someone on a gig twice in the past.

The Behringer DCX is an infinitely better buy if you’re on a tight budget.

Neurophonic fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Aug 22, 2020

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


"Just buy both and A-B test them" is not realistic on a normal person budget.

Funnily enough, the DCX I trialed in my setup had significantly higher noise floor that the Driverack PX. I sent it back to Thomann for that reason. It's a shame, because I would have liked to use that and a DEQ for my setup at the time.

I would like to see measurements and some sort of credible proof of bad math/design, thanks.

E: the reason I ask so pointedly is because I've seen "dbx bad!" repeated so much in pro audio circles that I consider it a meme by now. Yet nobody actually provides any proof, it's always just taken as a given on pure hearsay.

KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Aug 22, 2020

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001
$10


Fun Shoe

A-B testing doesn't work. You need to get the more expensive item. Again, you guys aren't even mentioning interconnects, so it doesn't really matter which one you buy.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






I will say I did immediately notice the noise floor compared to just the crossover, but that was mostly resolved by changing the line level to -4db. The rest, I have no idea. I think it made everything sound a lot better after running through the wizard, but that could easily be placebo.

Worst case, it's flashy and it does what I need it to do (be a crossover) while also satisfying my emotional need to have a million features I'll never use. Beyond that, who cares?

... Except for that drat screen speck

KillHour fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Aug 22, 2020

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

movax posted:

I have seen the Mojo mentioned a lot but never really looked into what it was.

A Artix-7 and probably some Atmel SAM MCU... so what exactly is still doing the DAC stage? FPGA into R2R or ? Lol at its power budget / being portable.

Just put an AK4499 down and call it good.

It's an FPGA with some custom DAC function implemented. Im not that impressed especially since the internet seems to love the thing.

qirex
Feb 15, 2001



redeyes posted:

It's an FPGA with some custom DAC function implemented. Im not that impressed especially since the internet seems to love the thing.
That FPGA and stupid case design is Chord's whole thing. At least they can claim to be doing some secret sauce processing unlike most other companies who just sell a $3 ESS or AKM in a $100 housing for $5000.

repiv
Aug 13, 2009



Their weird FPGA design does work at least, the performance is pretty good

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-chord-qutest-dac.5981/

It's just a pointlessly expensive way to go about it when conventional DAC chips perform just as well

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

repiv posted:

Their weird FPGA design does work at least, the performance is pretty good

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-chord-qutest-dac.5981/

It's just a pointlessly expensive way to go about it when conventional DAC chips perform just as well

Thats the Qutest which is not the Mojo. Muuuuch more spendy. Im sure they perform excellently on paper. I find that IEMs are more like musical instruments and require synergy with the amp device.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


redeyes posted:

I find that IEMs are more like musical instruments and require synergy with the amp device.

No.

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.


qirex posted:

That FPGA and stupid case design is Chord's whole thing. At least they can claim to be doing some secret sauce processing unlike most other companies who just sell a $3 ESS or AKM in a $100 housing for $5000.

basically they decided to implement a colossal fir reconstruction filter for absolutely no audible improvement but it likely costs $100s in fpga.


it's not even better than the SMSL d1 balanced dac/amp which is half the price, and is only 4db better than the khadas tone board which is $100 compared to $1900

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.



strictly speaking most iems have low input impedance requiring a really good amp at very low output impedance. Most cannot get the sub 1 Ohm required.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Malcolm XML posted:

strictly speaking most iems have low input impedance requiring a really good amp at very low output impedance. Most cannot get the sub 1 Ohm required.

Not really, most are 32 ohm or 16 ohm, same as a lot of full-size headphones. As long as you have a ~1:8 ratio or better it's fine.

Neurophonic
May 2, 2009


KozmoNaut posted:

"Just buy both and A-B test them" is not realistic on a normal person budget.

Funnily enough, the DCX I trialed in my setup had significantly higher noise floor that the Driverack PX. I sent it back to Thomann for that reason. It's a shame, because I would have liked to use that and a DEQ for my setup at the time.

I would like to see measurements and some sort of credible proof of bad math/design, thanks.

E: the reason I ask so pointedly is because I've seen "dbx bad!" repeated so much in pro audio circles that I consider it a meme by now. Yet nobody actually provides any proof, it's always just taken as a given on pure hearsay.

Common noise floor issues with the DCX are just a loose ribbon or contact from the main board to the bottom of the casing. You can fix both with a screwdriver and a bit of cardboard.

The dbx is probably fine if you’re only ever doing low level listening, but as soon as you’re starting to add many filter points you’ll notice the thing seeming to behave weirdly. The main one is the incredibly limited options in terms of filters, and the lack of proper limiting. For the cash, you can do a lot better - even if it is a “no name” Chinese unit.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









FPGA, might as well be called a field programmable noise generating apparatus

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Neurophonic posted:

Common noise floor issues with the DCX are just a loose ribbon or contact from the main board to the bottom of the casing. You can fix both with a screwdriver and a bit of cardboard.

"This device is so much better, you just need to open it and add some cardboard" is not exactly a ringing endorsement.

quote:

The dbx is probably fine if you’re only ever doing low level listening, but as soon as you’re starting to add many filter points you’ll notice the thing seeming to behave weirdly. The main one is the incredibly limited options in terms of filters, and the lack of proper limiting. For the cash, you can do a lot better - even if it is a “no name” Chinese unit.

If your go-to method is to "add many filter points" in order to solve issues, you're better off fixing those actual issues, rather than patching them over with DSP.

Not sure you've ever used even the PX or the newer models, or you only have experience with the 260 and older. You're mentioning issues that aren't issues anymore.

The "lack of proper limiting" is dbx's OverEasy setting for compressors and limiters. Disable that and it limits like you're used to.

E: but of course, I'm eagerly awaiting some documentation of said horrible issues with the dbx units, which thousands of sound techs seem to still like very much despite all of that. And I can't find a single mention anywhere if this non-limiting limiter-behavior you mention.

KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Aug 22, 2020

Foxtrot_13
Oct 31, 2013


Malcolm XML posted:

basically they decided to implement a colossal fir reconstruction filter for absolutely no audible improvement but it likely costs $100s in fpga.


it's not even better than the SMSL d1 balanced dac/amp which is half the price, and is only 4db better than the khadas tone board which is $100 compared to $1900

Well yes you can get just as good for much less but it doesn't look like a prop from a sci-fi film. As long as you know you are paying over the odds on the technical side of things then that is fine. A Rolex isn't any better at keeping time than a £60 Chinese mechanical watch but it looks a drat sight better.

If I won the lottery Chord would be the stuff I would buy because gently caress it, the different between £100 and £1000 doesn't matter if I like the look of it.

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.


KozmoNaut posted:

Not really, most are 32 ohm or 16 ohm, same as a lot of full-size headphones. As long as you have a ~1:8 ratio or better it's fine.

I've seen 8ohm ones where it gets dicey but you are right, my cutoff is 1:10 so it's a bit more stringent

Of course it doesn't matter when you aren't in an anechoic chamber.....

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Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.


Foxtrot_13 posted:

Well yes you can get just as good for much less but it doesn't look like a prop from a sci-fi film. As long as you know you are paying over the odds on the technical side of things then that is fine. A Rolex isn't any better at keeping time than a £60 Chinese mechanical watch but it looks a drat sight better.

If I won the lottery Chord would be the stuff I would buy because gently caress it, the different between £100 and £1000 doesn't matter if I like the look of it.

If you're gonna go full scifi at least mcintosh goes balls out

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