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KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


KozmoNaut posted:

Oh yeah, I remember that. Didn't the "manufacturer" come out with some outrageous explanation of how their mods made the sound and picture so much better, completely unlike the hack jobs their competitors do with the same DVD player

Quoting myself here, it was the Ayre DX-5 Bluray player ($10,000), which is nothing more than a rebranded Oppo player ($500). Theta and Lexicon are doing the exact same thing, but I can't remember which of them started the mudslinging.

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=76749

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EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



Wild EEPROM posted:

It was on head-fi, and it was a Virtual Dynamics cable. His dog chewed through it, and it was just cheap electrical wire and filled with metal filings.

The best part about that thread wasn't the cable though, it was the Virtual Dynamics rep (audio chef or accoustic chef or something chef) defending it, the VD fans defending it, and everyone else calling it a piece of poo poo.

I want to say it's from 2005 or so, but I don't remember. It was before the whole coathangers as cables thing existed.

It was a cat, as KillHour posted - http://www.head-fi.org/t/293165/my-cat-tore-up-my-virtual-dynamics-power-3

Most of the OP photo links are dead now, but I think they might reappear later on in the thread. They're available elsewhere anyway.

DELETED
Nov 14, 2004
Disgruntled

I love the garden hose

quote:

Well I removed the techflex and was a bit disappointed at the build quality, so I Googled a few things.

I found out it's made from :

1. 1 Schurter 10 amp IEC - $5
2. 1 Hubbell 15a 3 prong plug - $5
3. 6 feet of Black, Green and White 14g THHN 600v Building Wire - ~$0.30 /foot = $1.80
4. 6 feet of clear braided garden hose - ~$0.50/foot = $3
5. ~1 pound of ferrous metal powder - can't find a price, I'm sure it's dirt cheap
6. a stick of hot glue - the Hubbell connector had a hole drilled in it and was filled with hot glue, the female end was just glued to the hose.
7. Approx. 6 inches of electrical tape
8. Large size heatshrink
9. Techflex

(These are first hit prices from my Google results. I'm sure if you had a business license and bought in bulk, these prices would swandive)

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012



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EL BROMANCE posted:

It was a cat, as KillHour posted - http://www.head-fi.org/t/293165/my-cat-tore-up-my-virtual-dynamics-power-3

Most of the OP photo links are dead now, but I think they might reappear later on in the thread. They're available elsewhere anyway.

This one pretty much shows you what you need



Yep, it's mostly a garden hose with basic cables inside and weight and window-dressing on the outside.

e: And you know everyone who bought this, plugged it in, turned it on, then sat down looking shocked. When asked if he was OK, all he could mutter was "I didn't believe transients could have such clarity till this day".

Khablam fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Jan 16, 2014

BANME.sh
Jan 23, 2008

What is this??
Are you some kind of hypnotist??


Grimey Drawer

To switch gears a bit, I am debating whether or not I should replace all of the old electrolytic capacitors in my vintage Marantz receiver. It works fine, and it sounds good to me, but you know how everyone says "those old caps are dried up, better replace them before they burn out and damage something else!!".

On the audiokarma boards, you get people talking about "audio grade" caps (Nichicon MUSE FG, or Elna Silmic II, etc) and how different brands sounds "night and day" from one another. Too bad it's impossible to ABX test a modification like that.

Electrically, is there any difference between one capacitor and another, assuming they have the same V, uF and even tolerance? What if they are in the direct audio signal path, can it affect the sound?

There's a belief you should keep everything original. Don't fix it if it isn't broken. Keep the original sound in tact.

And there's the other side that says the "original sound" has gradually drifted so far over the years, what you hear now is nothing like how it originally sounded in the 70s. Better to replace them.

I honestly don't know what to believe.

Holy hell, I mean just read this from the manufacturer

quote:

Elna Americas' RFS series of aluminum electrolytic capacitors for acoustic applications uses a different type of electrolytic paper. The primary constituent of the developed electrolytic paper is silk fiber. The product beats the silk fiber and mixes it with Manila hemp fiber to provide an aluminum electrolytic capacitor used for high grade music. Due to the silk fiber's pliability, the capacitor exhibits a superior acoustic sound.

Even capacitors aren't safe from audiophile nonsense.

grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!


Hey, where else are all those people with degrees in Creative Writing supposed to find jobs (outside of Starbucks)?

Edit: Also, no, don't replace the caps with audiophile bullshit. Marantz put a helluva lot of time and money in R+D and it's not unreasonable to suggest that their original circuit design is quite capable. At the very least you'll notice no improvements, at worst you'll introduce audible distortion.

grack fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Jan 17, 2014

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS



Gary’s Answer

grack posted:

Hey, where else are all those people with degrees in Creative Writing supposed to find jobs (outside of Starbucks)?

We're all software developers.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


BANME.sh posted:

To switch gears a bit, I am debating whether or not I should replace all of the old electrolytic capacitors in my vintage Marantz receiver. It works fine, and it sounds good to me, but you know how everyone says "those old caps are dried up, better replace them before they burn out and damage something else!!".

The only way to be sure is to measure the Equivalent Series Resistance, this can be done in-circuit with an ESR meter. Unfortunately ESR meters cost money, but if you happen to know anyone who works with electronics, it's very likely they have one that you can borrow. As electrolytic caps age, their ESR starts to rise, which will cause the circuit to have more an more overall resistance to AC, lessening its efficiency, despite the fact that the caps may still be within their rated capacitance.

quote:

Electrically, is there any difference between one capacitor and another, assuming they have the same V, uF and even tolerance? What if they are in the direct audio signal path, can it affect the sound?


If two caps have the same electrical parameters (V, F, tolerance, ESR etc.), they will perform exactly the same in a circuit. Anyone who claims otherwise usually has something to sell you.

It's quite entertaining to watch David Jones (the EEVBlog guy) point out all the audiophile wankery in spec sheets every time he tears down a piece of A/V-related equipment to show how it works and comment on the design decisions, neat solutions to complicated problems and obvious corner-cutting that goes on with all product design.

If you have the slightest interest in electronics and can stand the unscripted ramblings of a slightly hyper-enthusiastic Aussie supergeek, you really should watch his videos. Here are a couple where he finds a defective Yamaha receiver in the trash room of his building, does a teardown and analysis of the design and tries to track down and repair the fault:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zje_ihjZdLM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwvjAtSr5t8

Knot My President!
Jan 10, 2005



BANME.sh posted:

To switch gears a bit, I am debating whether or not I should replace all of the old electrolytic capacitors in my vintage Marantz receiver. It works fine, and it sounds good to me, but you know how everyone says "those old caps are dried up, better replace them before they burn out and damage something else!!".


Electrically, is there any difference between one capacitor and another, assuming they have the same V, uF and even tolerance? What if they are in the direct audio signal path, can it affect the sound?



Acoustically, no, there's no difference as long as the capacitors are the same specs. Poly and ceramic caps do not degrade in the same way electrolytic capacitors do, so by switching to them you guarantee a (hypothetically) much, much longer life and guarantee for farad, voltage, and tolerance specifications for your vintage equipment. My A/D/S speakers were still rocking the original ceramic crossover components before I put my own Parts-Express-Special poly caps in them simply because I could. But unlike crossovers, capacitors in non-audio-dependent circuitry have little to no effect on sound unless something is not working properly to begin with.

Barring that, you should get those capacitors that are suspended in wax. They turn to liquid when warmed up and that is rad.

BANME.sh
Jan 23, 2008

What is this??
Are you some kind of hypnotist??


Grimey Drawer

KozmoNaut posted:

If you have the slightest interest in electronics and can stand the unscripted ramblings of a slightly hyper-enthusiastic Aussie supergeek, you really should watch his videos.

Thanks. I watched his comparison video of multimeters a few weeks ago and he's pretty funny.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


He's got his son Sagan in a couple of the videos too, he even has his own screwdriver so he can help daddy

KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Jan 17, 2014

afen
Sep 23, 2003

nemo saltat sobrius


BANME.sh posted:

To switch gears a bit, I am debating whether or not I should replace all of the old electrolytic capacitors in my vintage Marantz receiver. It works fine, and it sounds good to me, but you know how everyone says "those old caps are dried up, better replace them before they burn out and damage something else!!".

On the audiokarma boards, you get people talking about "audio grade" caps (Nichicon MUSE FG, or Elna Silmic II, etc) and how different brands sounds "night and day" from one another. Too bad it's impossible to ABX test a modification like that.

Electrically, is there any difference between one capacitor and another, assuming they have the same V, uF and even tolerance? What if they are in the direct audio signal path, can it affect the sound?

There's a belief you should keep everything original. Don't fix it if it isn't broken. Keep the original sound in tact.

And there's the other side that says the "original sound" has gradually drifted so far over the years, what you hear now is nothing like how it originally sounded in the 70s. Better to replace them.

I honestly don't know what to believe.


If it works, don`t replace the caps. If you're going to replace the caps, get name brand ones like Panasonic and Nichicon. It doesn't have anything to do with the sound, it's just that they're overall better quality

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

- Ska du ha maito i kaffet?


Neurophonic posted:

That extra box acted as a faraday cage that dramatically reduced my interdevice jitter thankyouverymuch

I have an old hifi magazine where they reviewed some CD player "improved" by Sandmark Audio. They opened it up and the improvements were basically putting a lump of blue tack on top of the CD spindle and gluing a Sandmark Audio badge on the case*. Verdict: Definite improvement, great buy.

*) I can't be arsed to dig it out right now but they may have also replaced a twisty tie with a zip tie or something to that effect.

Byolante
Mar 23, 2008

by Cyrano4747


From reading that thread on the power cable I am left confused. People saying that having their home insurance voided is ok as long as they have a wider sound stage is kinda mental, but then a guy starts talking about wrapping his cables in aluminium foil to improve the sound quality dramatically. I would have marked him down as a troll but he was very enthusiastic about cables of all sorts for most of the thread. Is that thread representitive of normal audiophile behaviour or is it an edge case?

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011





Byolante posted:

From reading that thread on the power cable I am left confused. People saying that having their home insurance voided is ok as long as they have a wider sound stage is kinda mental, but then a guy starts talking about wrapping his cables in aluminium foil to improve the sound quality dramatically. I would have marked him down as a troll but he was very enthusiastic about cables of all sorts for most of the thread. Is that thread representitive of normal audiophile behaviour or is it an edge case?

Wrapping your mains cables in foil is just pointless and stupid. In fact virtually everything audiophiles is pointless and stupid (and also massively expensive).

Anyone else care to chime in here on the factors that would make the most difference to a sound setup? Environment and the actual speakers would make the most noticeable difference, cabling would be way down the list under the format you're firing through the speakers...

champagne posting
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER


Speaker placement and reasonable amps are probably fine. For cables just use whatever you have lying around, or a coat hanger or anything conductive really.

A Lone Girl Flier
Sep 29, 2009

This post is dedicated to all those who fell by the forums, for nothing is wasted, and every apparent failure is but a challenge to others.


Room > speakers > crossovers > everything else (as long as it's not broken or not fit for purpose). The biggest change I made without changing room or speakers was moving to active software crossovers and bi-amping. All of a sudden my system played a LOT louder.

A Lone Girl Flier fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jan 19, 2014

grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!


Byolante posted:

From reading that thread on the power cable I am left confused. People saying that having their home insurance voided is ok as long as they have a wider sound stage is kinda mental, but then a guy starts talking about wrapping his cables in aluminium foil to improve the sound quality dramatically. I would have marked him down as a troll but he was very enthusiastic about cables of all sorts for most of the thread. Is that thread representitive of normal audiophile behaviour or is it an edge case?

"Psychoacoustics"

"Sighted listening"

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


I'm not 100% sure if this is audiophilia and I'm not really sure whether it deserves ridicule or praise for the sheer singlemindedness of the entire project.



Yes, those are 2x24 8" DALI speakers from their ASW-8 sub. I'd love to know where he got his hands on that many for any sort of reasonable price. He's selling the subs for $900/each or the individual speakers for $55 each.

One thing's for sure, he's definitely single!

KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jan 19, 2014

Banano
Jan 10, 2005


Soiled Meat

You'd have thought he'd at least go to the trouble of making sure his amp wasn't on the piss. That's gotta be skewing the stereo image.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



The display also looks like it's mounted far too high, but hey - knowing stuff isn't exactly what these idiots are renowned for.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

- Ska du ha maito i kaffet?


EL BROMANCE posted:

The display also looks like it's mounted far too high, but hey - knowing stuff isn't exactly what these idiots are renowned for.

Maybe they have a reaaallly tall sofa. Like a tennis umpire sofa.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


BANME.sh posted:

To switch gears a bit, I am debating whether or not I should replace all of the old electrolytic capacitors in my vintage Marantz receiver. It works fine, and it sounds good to me, but you know how everyone says "those old caps are dried up, better replace them before they burn out and damage something else!!".

On the audiokarma boards, you get people talking about "audio grade" caps (Nichicon MUSE FG, or Elna Silmic II, etc) and how different brands sounds "night and day" from one another. Too bad it's impossible to ABX test a modification like that.

Electrically, is there any difference between one capacitor and another, assuming they have the same V, uF and even tolerance? What if they are in the direct audio signal path, can it affect the sound?

There's a belief you should keep everything original. Don't fix it if it isn't broken. Keep the original sound in tact.

And there's the other side that says the "original sound" has gradually drifted so far over the years, what you hear now is nothing like how it originally sounded in the 70s. Better to replace them.

I honestly don't know what to believe.

Holy hell, I mean just read this from the manufacturer


Even capacitors aren't safe from audiophile nonsense.

Caps can make a big difference on amps and crossovers. That is, old worn out ones will sound different from new ones.

Bob Crites has a well written and logical article about it:

http://www.critesspeakers.com/frequently-asked-questions.html

grack
Jan 10, 2012

COACH TOTORO SAY REFEREE CAN BANISH WHISTLE TO LAND OF WIND AND GHOSTS!


Today's gold from Head-Fi

quote:

Originally Posted by drbluenewmexico View Post

even easy to drive oems like the Pistons respond to the benefit of amping. its not about how loud or powerful the sound is but that the amp helps resolve the
integrity of the sound, the tone and rhythm and cohesiveness. it can be a subtle change and not worth it if your talking pocket portable status, but it can also be
very dramatic like with the Pistons.

Can someone tell me what "preserving the integrity of rhythm" is supposed to mean?

A Lone Girl Flier
Sep 29, 2009

This post is dedicated to all those who fell by the forums, for nothing is wasted, and every apparent failure is but a challenge to others.


It's grip.

Sagacity
May 2, 2003
Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

Obviously.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007



KozmoNaut posted:

Quoting myself here, it was the Ayre DX-5 Bluray player ($10,000), which is nothing more than a rebranded Oppo player ($500). Theta and Lexicon are doing the exact same thing, but I can't remember which of them started the mudslinging.

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=76749

The Lexicon was the direct rebrand (except for the splash screen and case). Ayre modified the power supply and the analog outputs.

There's a pretty good post over on whatsbestforum explaining why this is happening (written regarding home theater, but applies to audio as well):
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...ll=1#post231773

Basically, small companies can't afford to implement HDMI into their own designs, so they're stuck modifying or rebadging existing designs.

This is one reason, I think, that there are so many new high-end DACs on the market now. It lets the companies avoid the issue altogether.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






TheMadMilkman posted:

The Lexicon was the direct rebrand (except for the splash screen and case). Ayre modified the power supply and the analog outputs.

There's a pretty good post over on whatsbestforum explaining why this is happening (written regarding home theater, but applies to audio as well):
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...ll=1#post231773

Basically, small companies can't afford to implement HDMI into their own designs, so they're stuck modifying or rebadging existing designs.

This is one reason, I think, that there are so many new high-end DACs on the market now. It lets the companies avoid the issue altogether.

Modifying the power supply and analog outputs of a blue ray player isn't going to make a difference in quality unless those parts were marginal to start with (and I mean "barely works"). Especially not for a 1900% price increase. Who the hell uses analog outputs with Blu-Ray, anyways?

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


KillHour posted:

Modifying the power supply and analog outputs of a blue ray player isn't going to make a difference in quality unless those parts were marginal to start with (and I mean "barely works"). Especially not for a 1900% price increase. Who the hell uses analog outputs with Blu-Ray, anyways?

Insane audiophiles who use them as CD and DVD-A players, pretty much.

Most BR players don't even have analog outputs. Even then, they will likely only output the basic stereo soundtrack when playing back most BRs, because of content protection.

Terminal Entropy
Dec 26, 2012



What's the audiophile logic to using Bluray for music vs just playing FLAC off of a computer?

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012



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Terminal Entropy posted:

What's the audiophile logic to using Bluray for music vs just playing FLAC off of a computer?
The FLAC would be presumably ripped from CD, and be at a puny 16/96

champagne posting
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER


Also digital media is apparently the devil.

A Lone Girl Flier
Sep 29, 2009

This post is dedicated to all those who fell by the forums, for nothing is wasted, and every apparent failure is but a challenge to others.


Nope audiophiles are starting to come around to using a computer as source and DSP, but there have only been a few computers that cater to their refined sensibilities have been designed to efficiently separate them from their money.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f13-audiophile-downloads/best-sounding-download-14951/

quote:

I think probably the Blue Coast Collection in DSD format.

Blue Coast Collection | Blue Coast Records

Some classical DSDs from Channel Classics have also been nice, but (possibly owing to it being my first extended listening experience with DSD, and also the fact that the recordings are generally of acoustic music with one or just a few players and vocalists on each track) this is really the one that made me sit up and pay attention, and think "Wow, there's something different going on here."

For PCM format, I like Wilco's "The Whole Love" and Ottmar Liebert's "Dune." (Have also heard good things about "One Guitar.") I think Officium Novum also has really good sonics, but jazz saxophone accompanying medieval barbershop quartet in an abbey may not be your "thang."

quote:

http://www.hifi-advice.com/best-PC-audio-solutions-info.html
2. Best Solution, making use of an already present DAC:

Regular Tower PC (not a laptop) running Windows XP and Winamp 2 or 5 with kernel streaming
Lapp or other warm-sounding power cable for the computer
M2Tech HiFace EVO USB-SP/DIF interface
Elijah Audio Quad Braid USB cable
Wireworld Gold Starlight III, or if you want spend less, Belden RG59 Coax for digital audio output (or if you like it cleanest, with no overhang: ST Glass fiber optic digital cable)
Mark Levinson no.360S DAC (or another second hand high end dac, many oldies but goodies are available at reasonable prices these days)

This system falls behind the system above when looking at its best areas but exceeds it in the bass and slam department. The HiFace EVO helps to produce the best bass I have been able to get from a computer based system, with the exception of using the digital output from a EMU1212M soundcard which has even better bass, but falls behind in all other areas.
Read that again, his USB -> SPDIF converter has the second biggest impact on bass reproduction he's ever seen.


Onkyo gets in on the fleecing here: http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/16/onkyo-unveils-another-audiophile-pc-the-apx-2-hd/

Oh and this should make you fairly angry: http://www.highend-audiopc.com/optimizer.html

A Lone Girl Flier fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Jan 27, 2014

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007



KillHour posted:

Modifying the power supply and analog outputs of a blue ray player isn't going to make a difference in quality unless those parts were marginal to start with (and I mean "barely works"). Especially not for a 1900% price increase. Who the hell uses analog outputs with Blu-Ray, anyways?

The Oppo was a universal player, so audiophiles who wanted CD, DVD-A and SACD in one unit.

BANME.sh
Jan 23, 2008

What is this??
Are you some kind of hypnotist??


Grimey Drawer

Crosspost from YOSPOS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cjjsz14hL48

Mr. Funny Pants
Apr 9, 2001




This is how old I am. I bought that when it came out. On 8-track. Despite having not heard it in decades, I had the thing virtually memorized, I can't imagine how many times I must have listened to it.

longview
Dec 25, 2006

heh.


BANME.sh posted:

To switch gears a bit, I am debating whether or not I should replace all of the old electrolytic capacitors in my vintage Marantz receiver. It works fine, and it sounds good to me, but you know how everyone says "those old caps are dried up, better replace them before they burn out and damage something else!!".

On the audiokarma boards, you get people talking about "audio grade" caps (Nichicon MUSE FG, or Elna Silmic II, etc) and how different brands sounds "night and day" from one another. Too bad it's impossible to ABX test a modification like that.

Electrically, is there any difference between one capacitor and another, assuming they have the same V, uF and even tolerance? What if they are in the direct audio signal path, can it affect the sound?

There's a belief you should keep everything original. Don't fix it if it isn't broken. Keep the original sound in tact.

There are a number of subtle differences between different formulations of capacitors, but at audio frequencies the only notable difference will be ESR and the fact that some are polarized. At 100 kHz and up there's a world of difference between a standard ceramic, an electrolytic and special NP0/C0G type ceramics, they don't really matter unless your circuit operates in that frequency range (for example with switch mode power supplies and class-D amplifiers).

There's also a whole slew of issues with using capacitors in precision circuits like integrators, again not a concern for audio use unless someone were mad enough to build an analog integrator-based ADC for a sound-card.
Some circuits can also malfunction or become unstable if you start putting in ultra-low ESR ceramics where they're designed for electrolytics (voltage regulators being the most common example).

If they're in the audio path and not connected directly to the speaker you'd be hard pressed to find any real difference between types, if they're speaker coupling caps then the ESR would affect the sound.
If you're just replacing power supply caps then get the same type (electrolytic), and make sure they're 105 degree rated or better if they can get warm. I wouldn't be too concerned with ultra-low ESR types for a linear power supply filter.

Basically just put in what the manufacturer put there unless you know exactly what you're doing.

BANME.sh
Jan 23, 2008

What is this??
Are you some kind of hypnotist??


Grimey Drawer

Sounds good, thanks!

Residency Evil
Jul 28, 2003

4/5 godo... Schumi


quote:

A typical Windows operating system (Windows 7, Windows 8, etc.) has about 50 to 100 processes and about 500 to 1000 or more threads all running at the same time. The CPU is involved in every single thread and process and, unfortunately, all of this processing must take place in real-time, resulting in jitter. By dramatically reducing the number of processes and threads run by your CPU, your music server will greatly minimize jitter, allowing for a far more accurate and natural sound.

I'm just angry I didn't think of this first.

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KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


I'm just angry that I'm not in on the cable racket.

Just think, you could go to the hardware store and get some lamp cord, decent-looking connectors, a bit of garden hose, some fancy-looking wrapping and hot glue, and you can make 500% profit on selling power cords to idiotic audiophiles!

(I'm sure there are rules and regulations for power cords, though. So it may be best to stick with speaker wire and "interconnects")

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