Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
1000 Brown M and Ms
Oct 22, 2008

F:\DL>quickfli 4-clowns.fli

Panty Saluter posted:

I'd rather listen to "Gangnam Style" than 99% of "audiophile" recordings. Seriously, they are the most bland unlistenable bullshit ever.

Me too, or you could just not listen to either and play actual good music on your $100k system.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


First thing I would play on a huge-rear end super-expensive audiophile system, at absolute maximum volume:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJNAbMihDBk

Or maybe a bit of Cattle Decapitation or Cannibal Corpse. Preferable at an actual audiophile convention.

KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 12:31 on Sep 8, 2015

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011





One thing I've always wondered is how certain things sound to other people. My setup errs towards bass heavy with a bit of the top end knocked off because 'ssssssssssssssss' in my ears just annoys me. I'm trying to remember the band people were hyping a few years back as the best thing ever, they were of a similar style to Crystal Castles and on listening to them on my 'not so much top end' system all I heard was ear-shattering top end which made them unlistenable at anything approaching a normal volume.

Olympic Mathlete fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Sep 8, 2015

AlexDeGruven
Jun 29, 2007

Watch me pull my dongle out of this tiny box




Palladium posted:

You see, bits of audio are fundamentally different from bits of other data.

I wonder how will audiophiles react when all their precious music and software player are stealth processed out-of-order in the CPU?

And now I'm going to start buying up all the IBM Power6 gear I can get my hands on and resell it at ridiculous markups.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


I try to keep my system as 'flat' as possible, ie. I don't use the tone controls or any EQ settings. My room probably accentuates some frequencies and dampen others, but when I compare to what other people's stereos sound like, mine sounds a lot more neutral. The speakers I use are known for having a very clear and detailed treble that tends to be more pronounced than a lot of other speakers, but I like that, even though they tend to make most other speakers sound kinda woolly to me. Same store with my headphones, they're a bit treble-happy, but I don't mind.

I have next to no hearing at all above 16kHz, and my left ear is slighty further attenuated in the upper-midrange and treble. And I've got a bit of tinnitus on top of that. So if I do play with tone controls and EQ though, I tend to increase the treble most of all.

I try to take better care of my ears nowadays, but yeah. Sometimes I need a little extra treble.

KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Sep 8, 2015

Panty Saluter
Jan 17, 2004

Making learning fun!


It's very hard to say since perception is very individual. I think a lot of people mistake upper midrange - the shrieking, glaring overtones of voices, electric guitars, etc. for "top end". A lot of people also seem to like a lot of sizzle, basically 10k and up where the hi hat is searing your face off.

Age is also a factor, and I'm saying this as a 38 year old who can't really hear past 14k here - your ears get worse at damping noise as you get older because the outer ear muscles lose tone. So even though you can't hear as much really loud sounds are probably going to bother you a lot more.

I don't know that I would ever want to return to the days of pre-adolescent hearing though. I remember so many things being sharply painful to hear. I'll take just a little deafness, thanks.

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011





I went out a couple of weeks ago with friends, one of whom was DJing, the system in there was just a fairly 'musak' setup so it wasn't doing anything particularly good or loud. We then went to a 'club' which had a 'proper' PA and the loving horns were painful to listen to, the 'searing your face off' you mention. I could hear myself getting progressively more deaf as time went on. Horrible experience. It makes me sad as someone who built a PA for fun as I know that kinda bullshit is easily fixed but no fucker is interested. Just crank the volume, run the mixer into distortion and yay!

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005



Lipstick Apathy

88h88 posted:

I went out a couple of weeks ago with friends, one of whom was DJing, the system in there was just a fairly 'musak' setup so it wasn't doing anything particularly good or loud. We then went to a 'club' which had a 'proper' PA and the loving horns were painful to listen to, the 'searing your face off' you mention. I could hear myself getting progressively more deaf as time went on. Horrible experience. It makes me sad as someone who built a PA for fun as I know that kinda bullshit is easily fixed but no fucker is interested. Just crank the volume, run the mixer into distortion and yay!



The good news is that you weren't literally hearing yourself become deaf. Your ear muscles were basically going into a sort of protection mode and that's what you were hearing. The bad news is that the reason they were deciding to protect themselves is because you were damaging them, and you likely lose some small amount of hearing permanently every time you subject yourself to those sorts of environments without wearing earplugs or other protection.

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011





fart simpson posted:

The good news is that you weren't literally hearing yourself become deaf. Your ear muscles were basically going into a sort of protection mode and that's what you were hearing. The bad news is that the reason they were deciding to protect themselves is because you were damaging them, and you likely lose some small amount of hearing permanently every time you subject yourself to those sorts of environments without wearing earplugs or other protection.

Yeah and that's why we left after about 10 minutes. And I realise that even 10 minutes exposure at those sort of levels has reduced my hearing capacity forever if only a tiny amount.

:/

Panty Saluter
Jan 17, 2004

Making learning fun!


Yeah, horns tend to bump a lot of power between 1 and 4k (the midrange ones anyway) so they're usually pretty strident. Good for filling a big space though.

One of my favorite stereos I ever got to hear was a pair of Klipschorns driven by a nice Mark Levinson integrated preamp. That sounds funny but the horns were in a HUGE room with vaulted ceilings and when you're standing at least 50 feet back They're pretty drat amazing. I'm not being facetious, these are monster speakers designed for a monster space. It helps that the music was warm n' fuzzy analog master Stevie Wonder too.

A lot of sound depends on context. Those speakers would be shrill and awful in a space not much smaller than the cavern they inhabited.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Klipschorns are amazing if you've got the room for them and can do proper corner placement.

They may not be the most accurate speakers, or the best for "imaging" (placing the individual instruments within a 3D space), but they can fill a room with sound like nothing else, while using way less power than you'd expect.

Frobbe
Jan 19, 2007

Calm Down


this one goes out to KozmoNaut in particular:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krxlv15MiLA

mmm, his accent. also apparently he's a dumbshit but whatever.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Danglish

Loving the subtitles, though.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






The most scientifically valid test I've ever witnessed.

Frobbe
Jan 19, 2007

Calm Down


KillHour posted:

The most scientifically valid test I've ever witnessed.

but hey, at least he got a beer or two in while doing the first part of the listening test

Egg in soup
Nov 29, 2006

Yeah, up yours.

In conclusion, my studies show that DenBrau widens the gap between instruments and improves the midrange. However, Otto the cat provided no tangible benefits.

GWBBQ
Jan 2, 2005





That's a whole lot off words for "lamp cord."

KillHour posted:

To be fair, this is kind of cool if you're a math/physics/cryptography geek. Their section on "what can I use this for" is pretty non-bullshitty (except for the one about actually listening to it as music, but I guess there's no accounting for taste).

They're pretty open about it just being a thing they're doing for the sake of doing it. Also, it costs 4 quid, so they're not exactly fleecing people.
I'm having trouble finding it under all the modern stuff that comes up in search results, but I remember reading about an early secure phone system that used record players with identical records of white noise on each end to drown out what was being said if someone tapped the line and didn't have the right player and record to subtract the noise from the signal.

Proteus Jones
Feb 28, 2013





GWBBQ posted:


That's a whole lot off words for "lamp cord."

I'm having trouble finding it under all the modern stuff that comes up in search results, but I remember reading about an early secure phone system that used record players with identical records of white noise on each end to drown out what was being said if someone tapped the line and didn't have the right player and record to subtract the noise from the signal.

Huh. Secure lines are something I've never really thought about, but that's actually pretty clever. The playback has to be 180 degrees out of phase for it work, so I can see it being a really finicky system until the signal generators became digitized.

chessmaster13
Jan 9, 2015


flosofl posted:

Huh. Secure lines are something I've never really thought about, but that's actually pretty clever. The playback has to be 180 degrees out of phase for it work, so I can see it being a really finicky system until the signal generators became digitized.

Oh this definitly is. Before things became digitized, people put a great deal of thought into strange techniques to keep lines secure.
But back to the topic about audiophiles and their fetish:

Back when I was a broke and hungry student I used to work at a store for audiophiles.
You reach the point of diminishing returns fairly quick when it comes to upgrading audio equipment.
What that means is that it can totally fine and reasonable to get a system for 600$. Hell, if you want to go fancy, buy one for 3000 - 5000.

But everything above 10000 (for home use) is not worth it from a technical perspective.
If you like the looks and have the money? Go totally insane, it's your only life and if it's your hobby: DO IT!

For cables: use a decent not junk. If you buy crap it will dry out and crack, posing hazards in the house.
anything that is not the cheapest is just perfect.

BTW: My personal system is a pair of JBL Control 1s and a small Yamaha amp. Does it's job, soounds good, set me back 200$.

chessmaster13 fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Sep 12, 2015

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

- Ska du ha maito i kaffet?


Buy cheap-rear end poo poo cables they won't crack in your lifetime.

e: Actually maybe they've just never sold really poo poo cables in non-Warsaw Pact Europe?

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






I'm trying to imagine just how lovely speaker cable has to be to pose a fire hazard. At that level of terrible, it's probably carcinogenic too.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

- Ska du ha maito i kaffet?


The only sort of cable I've ever seen in domestic use worn out enough to pose a hazard has been from the 30s-50s but maybe it's like with toilet paper: you can only buy bad toilet paper in bad countries.

chessmaster13
Jan 9, 2015


KillHour posted:

I'm trying to imagine just how lovely speaker cable has to be to pose a fire hazard. At that level of terrible, it's probably carcinogenic too.

If your job is delivering and installing this stuff, you see some oddities.
One time my coworker pulled out this really old audio cable. it was so dry that the insulation fell off .
He managed to cut himself on the now hard and dry plastic.

It's just a rule of thumb for me not to buy really bad stuff.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

- Ska du ha maito i kaffet?


If it was really really old it might very well have been the good stuff when it was bought.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






It was probably vulcanized rubber or something. Luckily, AFAIK, newer plastics don't really do that any more.

goddamnedtwisto
Dec 31, 2004

If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you

Fun Shoe

GWBBQ posted:


That's a whole lot off words for "lamp cord."

I'm having trouble finding it under all the modern stuff that comes up in search results, but I remember reading about an early secure phone system that used record players with identical records of white noise on each end to drown out what was being said if someone tapped the line and didn't have the right player and record to subtract the noise from the signal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIGSALY

I wonder how much extra headroom and dynamics the analogue crypto has over digital?

e: To be clear, because the Wiki article doesn't actually state this, the first iteration of SIGSALY (Green Hornet) was the one that used the records - PCM was added into the system because of the impossibility of keeping the records synchronised over the length of the conversation, they continued to use the records that they'd already etched for Green Hornet as their noise mask

goddamnedtwisto fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Sep 13, 2015

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011





chessmaster13 posted:

BTW: My personal system is a pair of JBL Control 1s and a small Yamaha amp. Does it's job, soounds good, set me back 200$.

I used to have a pair of Control 1s, great little speakers, bit light on bass though for my personal taste.

chessmaster13
Jan 9, 2015


88h88 posted:

I used to have a pair of Control 1s, great little speakers, bit light on bass though for my personal taste.

The issue with the light bass is true, but for the price the JBL C1 are a steal. They punch way above their weight class.

Mr. Funny Pants
Apr 9, 2001



Stupid question: Lots of people have said that doing a proper room treatment is far more valuable than any of the snake oil (or even legitimate equipment). So what should you look for when you want legitimate, good bang for the buck wall treatments and such? Obviously I can do a Google search and come up with plenty of links to people selling this stuff, but I have no idea which materials I should look for or what prices are reasonable.

Panty Saluter
Jan 17, 2004

Making learning fun!


The best value room treatment is nice sound absorbing curtains and some soft furniture. Just a few items to eat up the slap echo most places have. Auralex also makes some decent stuff if you want to take it further too.

BigFactory
Sep 17, 2002



Mr. Funny Pants posted:

Stupid question: Lots of people have said that doing a proper room treatment is far more valuable than any of the snake oil (or even legitimate equipment). So what should you look for when you want legitimate, good bang for the buck wall treatments and such? Obviously I can do a Google search and come up with plenty of links to people selling this stuff, but I have no idea which materials I should look for or what prices are reasonable.

Fiberglass insulation is cheap. Stable it to your walls and ceiling if you can't figure out a better way to manage it. And put a rug down. Might want to wear a mask if you end up using a lot of insulation.

Blue Footed Booby
Oct 4, 2006

got those happy feet




Slippery Tilde

BigFactory posted:

Fiberglass insulation is cheap. Stable it to your walls and ceiling if you can't figure out a better way to manage it. And put a rug down. Might want to wear a mask if you end up using a lot of insulation.

Then post pictures.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






BigFactory posted:

Fiberglass insulation is cheap. Stable it to your walls and ceiling if you can't figure out a better way to manage it. And put a rug down. Might want to wear a mask if you end up using a lot of insulation.

I think sacrificing quality for looks is usually a terrible trade off, but this is going too far the other way.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Mr. Funny Pants posted:

Stupid question: Lots of people have said that doing a proper room treatment is far more valuable than any of the snake oil (or even legitimate equipment). So what should you look for when you want legitimate, good bang for the buck wall treatments and such? Obviously I can do a Google search and come up with plenty of links to people selling this stuff, but I have no idea which materials I should look for or what prices are reasonable.

If you want a professional solution, http://realtraps.com comes highly recommended from just about everyone who knows anything about sound.

The company is run by Ethan Winer, who is well-known for debunking audiophile bullshit.

He also has some articles and YouTube comes on acoustic treatments, that are a good starting point.

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011





chessmaster13 posted:

The issue with the light bass is true, but for the price the JBL C1 are a steal. They punch way above their weight class.

Yeah they're fantastic little speakers, I paired them with a crappy Mission sub when I had them and they performed fantastically.

A Lone Girl Flier
Sep 29, 2009

This post is dedicated to all those who fell by the forums, for nothing is wasted, and every apparent failure is but a challenge to others.


KozmoNaut posted:

If you want a professional solution, http://realtraps.com comes highly recommended from just about everyone who knows anything about sound.

The company is run by Ethan Winer, who is well-known for debunking audiophile bullshit.

He also has some articles and YouTube comes on acoustic treatments, that are a good starting point.

Came to post this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbLVjHfHahg

BigFactory
Sep 17, 2002



KillHour posted:

I think sacrificing quality for looks is usually a terrible trade off, but this is going too far the other way.

So skip the rug if you want.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


But it really ties the room together.

chessmaster13
Jan 9, 2015


Mr. Funny Pants posted:

Stupid question: Lots of people have said that doing a proper room treatment is far more valuable than any of the snake oil (or even legitimate equipment). So what should you look for when you want legitimate, good bang for the buck wall treatments and such? Obviously I can do a Google search and come up with plenty of links to people selling this stuff, but I have no idea which materials I should look for or what prices are reasonable.

Echo (reflected sound) is the main enemy.
You can make a little experiment: Throw some some towels over your furniture, focus on large surfaces like cup boards or naked walls. Close the windows.
You will notice a striking difference.

The effect will be very similar to what you experience if there is a lot of snow outside.
Everything will sound more gentle, also you might notice new instruments in the background (listen to some classical music for this).

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

- Ska du ha maito i kaffet?


The most marked improvement I've ever heard myself was removing sliding glass doors from a book case.

Less cleaning as well.

Though more dusting. You can't win.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply