Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





CatchrNdRy posted:

Yeah, my friend got obviously bait and switched at the Superstition Springs Toyota a few years ago, acquired something very close to a lemon and still convinced herself she got a "pretty decent lease".

So OTD price was about 23K for the 2013? If I could snag a 2010 used for say 17.5 OTD, a 6K savings seems nothing to sneeze at. Though it just seems proportionally priced to new, it wouldn't actually be anymore financially efficient. I still can't figure out a good rule of thumb price adjustment for new vs used. its making me neurotic.

I have no idea if SS Toyota and SS Honda are the same ownership or not - the whole point is if you walk in off the street, they slap on a shitload of extra packages and don't do much of a discount at all. The only thing it did help me with was they gave me what they claimed was a high (and realistically, middle of the road) trade-in on the MS3 I was trading in; if I had just done the internet thing I suspect they would've offered me a lot less on the trade.

My OTD was actually a tiny bit over $24k, since sales tax and new-car tags are a royal bitch. I did get about $150 back from the credit they applied from the existing registration on my MS3. On the plus side for you, the effective tax rate is down a point from when I bought. On the downside for you, I have no idea what you're trading in or what they'll give you on that (in AZ you only pay sales tax on the difference between what you trade and what you buy).

As far as pricing... a 2010 should be a good deal more price-flexible than a 2012, simply because it's an older-generation model. It seems like the rule of thumb right now for mass-market economy cars is that anything that's the same generation is going to hold retarded resale value, and you only start saving a non-trivial amount of money once you get to a previous generation model. When I was shopping, the only 2012s I could find were barely $800 off 2013 MSRP, so I didn't waste any time looking further.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Citycop posted:

Proposed Budget: ~$15000
New or Used: Used
Body Style: 4d Midsize Sedan
How will you be using the car?: Mostly city but we live about 20 minutes away from everything, Two adults and three kids but most of the time it's just one adult and three kids.
Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos?) I do love gadgets and leather.
What aspects are most important to you? Reliability, MPG, fit and finish, gadgets, in that order.

I have a friend that is a car dealer and he has offered to take me to the dealer auction in Dallas tomorrow to buy a car. He said the prices are generally $5k less than those you would find at retail and they have somewhere around 5000 cars to sell ranging from brand new with 100 miles on them all the way down to total beaters. I have the financing arranged already at 2.75% through my credit union.

The main goal here is to get my wife out of our 2001 Toyota Sequoia that is drinking over $400 a month in gas driving her and the kids to horse lessons, gymnastics, and school. We are also going to be taking a couple of trips this summer, the longest being to a Florida beach. We went to a couple of dealers and found out that the Civic and Corolla and Spark are too small for us with the three kids. In order to maintain the gas mileage I figure this puts us in the midsize market with the Camry and Accord. The small SUV's that I looked at did not get very good gas mileage with the exception of the Honda CRV but I hate the looks of it and don't want to drive it.

I need to have a good idea of what cars I would like to buy and how much to pay for them. I've pretty much settled on an 2011 Accord or a Camry with 15k to 25k miles but I wonder if I'm missing another choice.

I drove a 2013 Prius and while it seemed to almost be large enough, it's very utilitarian. I love the gadgets and readouts but the road noise is bad and it's not fun to drive. The MPG is awesome though and buying one of these used is where the cost savings starts to make more sense.

We also drove a '13 Camry and it was nice, with a very quiet cabin and a nice 4cyl.

The '13 Accord sport was my favorite drive. It seemed very put together and nice to drive. It also had an ECO mode that forced you to drive a bit easier and saved gas. The CVT auto trans was good and supposedly is what is helping it beat the camry in mpg.

We didn't make it 1/4 mile in the test drive of the Hyundai Sonata before I told the sales guy this wasn't the car for me. The road noise was terrible and in my opinion was not in the same class as the Toyota or Honda, everything in the car seemed very cheap.

Can't go wrong with the Camry, Accord or Ford Fusion (though TW says there are some transmission issues with the old Fusions). I am not sure why you are test driving new product when you won't be buying it. The 2013 Accord is brand new and a significant improvement over the previous Accord. Also that Eco button is complete poo poo. It doesn't do anything other than remap the throttle so that

Also, don't buy a car at auction your first time at an auto auction. Go and observe.

I would strongly encourage you to do the math on this one. If you're planning to replace the Sequoia anyway, that's one thing. But I imagine it's paid off and the only costs are maint, fuel and insurance. You might cut your fuel costs by say, 1/3-1/2? Not sure that the trade off is worth it. Making a reactionary decision on fuel costs is usually not a great call. It will take you what, ten years? to pay off the vehicle in terms of fuel savings alone.

edit: you will want to kill yourself if you drive to the beach in Florida (over any significant distance) on vacation with five humans in a Honda Accord.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006



I want to do a straight trade of my current compact car for a light duty truck. I don't want to put any cash down, just a trade only.

How does this affect the purchase of the new car from a dealer? Would i be better off selling the old car private party and just paying cash instead?

Citycop
Apr 11, 2005

Greetings, Rainbow Dash.

I will now sing for you a song that I hope will ease your performance anxiety.

skipdogg posted:

Have you fully thought this through? Has your wife signed off on the idea of dropping the minivan for something smaller? I'm not saying you need an Expedition or another Mini-Van, but 5 people on a 11+ hour road trip to Florida in a mid sized sedan is basically hell. Especially with 3 kids. I don't know how old your kids are, but you're not getting 3 teens in the back of a midsized sedan for anything longer than a trip to the movies, and younger kids that need boosters and car seats won't fit back there easily either. I don't think you could get 5 peoples luggage in the car for a week long trip either. Hell even if you squeeze everyone in with their luggage you'll probably be exceeding the safe load capacity of the car which is probably around ~800 to ~850 pounds. If you're hell bent on a sedan, I'd be looking full size. When I was younger we fit 6 of us in a panther platform car with the youngest in the middle up front and it was fine for the most part.

My wife and I take 7 to 10 road trips a year of 500 to 1100 miles each way with 2 kids and we can use almost every inch of our Ford Explorer hauling poo poo around on these trips. I drive a Ford Fusion and I wouldn't take it on a road trip longer than 3 hours away from home with my kids.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

Can't go wrong with the Camry, Accord or Ford Fusion (though TW says there are some transmission issues with the old Fusions). I am not sure why you are test driving new product when you won't be buying it. The 2013 Accord is brand new and a significant improvement over the previous Accord. Also that Eco button is complete poo poo. It doesn't do anything other than remap the throttle so that

Also, don't buy a car at auction your first time at an auto auction. Go and observe.

I would strongly encourage you to do the math on this one. If you're planning to replace the Sequoia anyway, that's one thing. But I imagine it's paid off and the only costs are maint, fuel and insurance. You might cut your fuel costs by say, 1/3-1/2? Not sure that the trade off is worth it. Making a reactionary decision on fuel costs is usually not a great call. It will take you what, ten years? to pay off the vehicle in terms of fuel savings alone.

edit: you will want to kill yourself if you drive to the beach in Florida (over any significant distance) on vacation with five humans in a Honda Accord.

The kids are 4,7 and 9. Realistically we will be in another car in 5 years and that's when things will be getting a bit tight. We are keeping the Sequoia and will obviously use it when we need it but the idea is that all the driving around that my wife is doing with just the kids and her when I'm at work (I work nights) would be better served with something that is not getting 12mpg in the city and 15 on the hwy and 4 people would fit fine in an accord.

Also, I would like to get her something that's a bit nicer to drive around in. The SUV is beat up and showing it's age. Obviously this is not a purely financial move. If I wanted to save money that bad we would still be driving my '88 VW Fox.

To step up to something bigger I guess I would be looking at a Chrysler 300 or Charger, but what years are good? I heard that one of the V6 engines was prone to problems?

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

FCKGW posted:

I want to do a straight trade of my current compact car for a light duty truck. I don't want to put any cash down, just a trade only.

How does this affect the purchase of the new car from a dealer? Would i be better off selling the old car private party and just paying cash instead?

yes unless the time and annoyance is enough that you'd be willing to take a decent hit as basically a convenience fee by trading it in.

I also really doubt you'd be able to swing a no-cash trade unless you're talking really new for fairly old and leaving a lot of money to the dealer.

HappySpaceScience
Jun 5, 2013


Just graduated and getting a new car.

  • Proposed budget : Around $30,000. Not a big deal if it's several thousand higher.
  • New
  • Body style : 4-door, small-SUV/Crossover, or something similar
  • How I will use the car : This is the part I'm most unsure about, check below for more detail.** Short version. Commute to work. Occasional trips to tougher terrain where 4WD or AWD would be useful. Regularly transporting self, SO, and dog. No plans for towing anything at the moment. I would like a few of the additional bells and whistles and am willing to pay up to a soft limit of around $36k
  • Car knowledge : Average for a normal person, but minimal compared to just about anyone in AI. I haven't done much work on cars on my own, but I know my way around tools. To add, I will be pretty busy with work, so most of the time I'll leave maintenance up to the professionals.
  • Gas mileage target: City - low-mid 20s, Highway - 30+
  • What is important : Reliability, Maintenance costs, and to a lesser degree the look
  • Preliminary ideas : Subaru Outback or Forrester, Jeep Patriot. Also, the Subaru Crossstrek seems cool, but I'm hesitant to get a brand-new model.

**Extra info about my situation. I just graduated and moved from SE Texas to the Portland area for a job I start very soon. I've lived in Texas my entire life. Drastic change in lifestyle and climate. I went from making $20k to $80k+ and from flat, hot, and dry to hills, cold(ish), and wet. I will drive this car to work, but my current commute is only about 15 min. Also, now that I live somewhere that isn't 10-billion degrees 8 months out of the year, I plan to get more into outdoor-type activities, e.g. hiking, camping, so I would like something with 4-WD or AWD. My SO moved up here with me and she has a 4-door Civic so we'd like to get something with a little more room.

Final comment, I am open to the option of leasing. I know the majority of you will argue against leasing (for good reason), but my logic is that my life has changed dramatically and I have very little idea about what the next several years will bring. For one, my job may be awful and I may need to leave and go to a lower paying one. Perhaps, I'll find out I don't ever really go into the mountains so AWD and the extra room isn't really necessary. A 2 or 3 year lease would give me the time to figure that stuff out before committing to a new-car purchase price. If I end up spending several thousand more in the process, then I am okay with that.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

quote:

I know the majority of you will argue against leasing (for good reason)

They're wrong. Lease all of the cars. :colbert:

The Patriot really doesn't get the fuel economy you want and there is little reason to get it unless you specifically want a low range transfer case. The new Cherokee on the other hand is very intriguing(you really have to see it in person, the styling does work) but not actually out yet so may not work for your time frame.

Look into the Volvo XC60 and the GMC Terrain Denali.

Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Jun 26, 2013

Lawnie
Sep 5, 2006

That is my helmet
Give it back
you are a lion
It doesn't even fit


Grimey Drawer

So a sweet little Jetta smashed into my parked Pacifica Sunday morning, and I'm 99% sure it's totaled. I'm in a rental right now, but I'm going to need to get something new (to me) ASAP. Luckily I just started my first big boy job out of college, so I'll have more income than ever before and can hopefully upgrade from what I was driving before. I don't know much about how to work my finances whatsoever, though, so I'm going to include some stuff about my income in the hopes that some fine goons can help me get an idea of what's realistic for me.

I also have a secondary question: is it cheaper for me to buy a car in Indiana or Illinois, tax-wise? My gut says Indiana but I don't know.

Here goes.

Proposed Budget: $5000-$7000 down. My salary is about $60k per year, so about $5k per month before taxes. I pay $900 per month in rent, and I haven't started paying back my student loans yet ($31k that I won't start paying back until November or so. I can get more details on this if necessary). My bank has very good rates on auto loans; under 2% if I remember correctly. Again, that's something I can get more details on if necessary.
New or Used: Either. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go used, as I'd prefer something on the more luxury side of things.
Body Style: 2 or 4 doors, mid size.
How will you be using the car?: no kids, no girlfriend, so I'm not that concerned about being able to haul that many people. My commute to work is only a few miles, though I foresee myself making a 240 mile round trip drive fairly regularly, maybe once every month or six weeks. Like I said before I'd much prefer something that's a bit more luxurious, though I'd love to have some sort of sports car. For example, before I was pressed into getting something now, I had plans to look at 2-4 year old mustangs and saving up.
What aspects are most important to you? I'm 22, so a lot of the things you'd expect to be important to me, are. I want something stylish and fun to drive. Good reliability would be awesome. Mpg isn't a huge factor for me, but it would likely make a difference in my decision if most everything else were equal.

Any recommendations provided would be very welcome. I live in Indianapolis if that's important.

Ps RIP 2005 Pacifica, you made it to 317,000 miles like a champ.

EDIT: oh also, I'm a recent college grad. Don't auto manufacturers sometimes offer a discount or special financing for recent grads?

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

Lawnie posted:

So a sweet little Jetta smashed into my parked Pacifica Sunday morning, and I'm 99% sure it's totaled. I'm in a rental right now, but I'm going to need to get something new (to me) ASAP. Luckily I just started my first big boy job out of college, so I'll have more income than ever before and can hopefully upgrade from what I was driving before. I don't know much about how to work my finances whatsoever, though, so I'm going to include some stuff about my income in the hopes that some fine goons can help me get an idea of what's realistic for me.

I also have a secondary question: is it cheaper for me to buy a car in Indiana or Illinois, tax-wise? My gut says Indiana but I don't know.

Here goes.

Proposed Budget: $5000-$7000 down. My salary is about $60k per year, so about $5k per month before taxes. I pay $900 per month in rent, and I haven't started paying back my student loans yet ($31k that I won't start paying back until November or so. I can get more details on this if necessary). My bank has very good rates on auto loans; under 2% if I remember correctly. Again, that's something I can get more details on if necessary.
New or Used: Either. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go used, as I'd prefer something on the more luxury side of things.
Body Style: 2 or 4 doors, mid size.
How will you be using the car?: no kids, no girlfriend, so I'm not that concerned about being able to haul that many people. My commute to work is only a few miles, though I foresee myself making a 240 mile round trip drive fairly regularly, maybe once every month or six weeks. Like I said before I'd much prefer something that's a bit more luxurious, though I'd love to have some sort of sports car. For example, before I was pressed into getting something now, I had plans to look at 2-4 year old mustangs and saving up.
What aspects are most important to you? I'm 22, so a lot of the things you'd expect to be important to me, are. I want something stylish and fun to drive. Good reliability would be awesome. Mpg isn't a huge factor for me, but it would likely make a difference in my decision if most everything else were equal.

Any recommendations provided would be very welcome. I live in Indianapolis if that's important.

Ps RIP 2005 Pacifica, you made it to 317,000 miles like a champ.

EDIT: oh also, I'm a recent college grad. Don't auto manufacturers sometimes offer a discount or special financing for recent grads?


I'd look into a 2011+ Infiniti M56, they should be starting to come off lease now for around $40k, very luxurious inside, looks nice onthe outside, big ol stonking V8 for the price of a 4 cyl BMW 5 series and undoubtedly more reliable.

Lawnie
Sep 5, 2006

That is my helmet
Give it back
you are a lion
It doesn't even fit


Grimey Drawer

Throatwarbler posted:

I'd look into a 2011+ Infiniti M56, they should be starting to come off lease now for around $40k, very luxurious inside, looks nice onthe outside, big ol stonking V8 for the price of a 4 cyl BMW 5 series and undoubtedly more reliable.

Looks great, too bad I can't find one anywhere that isn't in Florida or Wisconsin. Something along these lines is exactly what I'm looking for, though. Really like the V8; having great performance would be awesome.

EDIT: I found a 2011 Jaguar XF Premium trim package in the area for $39750. Good deal?

Lawnie fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Jun 26, 2013

Dobermaniac
Jun 10, 2004


Wife and I found out we're pregnant with our first child a couple of months ago and we're looking for a new vehicle. Always had small 4 door sedans(a civic and corolla) and looking for a small SUV. My wife previously drove a 2001 Mazda tribute before flipping it. It will be my main vehicle and she will keep her corolla as her daily driver. We will have a child around January and were trying to wait Nov/Dec to purchase.

  • Proposed budget : $30,000-35,000(Will put down 10,000 to 14,000)
  • New
  • Body style : 4-door, small-SUV/Crossover, or something similar
  • How I will use the car : This will be a daily driver for 1 male with a short commute to work / commute to child's daycare. Weekends it will be a workhorse for driving 2 adults and 1 child. We are planning on having only 2 children. It will need to comfortably hold 2 short stature adults(around 5') and 2 children in the future along with all their items(strollers and such).
  • Car knowledge : I've worked on cars previously, but with a new vehicle, I'd leave all work to be done by the dealership.
  • Gas mileage target: mid-20s/high 20s
  • What is important : Safety is main concern with child/wife, reliability, longevity.
  • Features: Leather seats, nav, back up cam,
  • Preliminary ideas : Test driven/looked at: Honda CRV and Pilot, Toyota Rav4 and Highlander, Ford Escape, Mazda CX5

Her main concern is being able to fit everything child related and still be comfortable. I've driven my honda for about 10 years now and her corolla is going to be used for the same amount of time(assuming she doesn't destroy it). We don't really care about resale value since we're run the car into the ground and go get a new one.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

Lawnie posted:

Looks great, too bad I can't find one anywhere that isn't in Florida or Wisconsin. Something along these lines is exactly what I'm looking for, though. Really like the V8; having great performance would be awesome.

Yeah they're not nearly as common on the ground as the BMWs, so you may have to travel a bit, but on the other hand when you do see one they turn a lot more heads. There is also the M37 too, but no V8 obviously.

http://www.cars.com/for-sale/search...ORM&enableSeo=1

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

Dobermaniac posted:

Wife and I found out we're pregnant with our first child a couple of months ago and we're looking for a new vehicle. Always had small 4 door sedans(a civic and corolla) and looking for a small SUV. My wife previously drove a 2001 Mazda tribute before flipping it. It will be my main vehicle and she will keep her corolla as her daily driver. We will have a child around January and were trying to wait Nov/Dec to purchase.

  • Proposed budget : $30,000-35,000(Will put down 10,000 to 14,000)
  • New
  • Body style : 4-door, small-SUV/Crossover, or something similar
  • How I will use the car : This will be a daily driver for 1 male with a short commute to work / commute to child's daycare. Weekends it will be a workhorse for driving 2 adults and 1 child. We are planning on having only 2 children. It will need to comfortably hold 2 short stature adults(around 5') and 2 children in the future along with all their items(strollers and such).
  • Car knowledge : I've worked on cars previously, but with a new vehicle, I'd leave all work to be done by the dealership.
  • Gas mileage target: mid-20s/high 20s
  • What is important : Safety is main concern with child/wife, reliability, longevity.
  • Features: Leather seats, nav, back up cam,
  • Preliminary ideas : Test driven/looked at: Honda CRV and Pilot, Toyota Rav4 and Highlander, Ford Escape, Mazda CX5

Her main concern is being able to fit everything child related and still be comfortable. I've driven my honda for about 10 years now and her corolla is going to be used for the same amount of time(assuming she doesn't destroy it). We don't really care about resale value since we're run the car into the ground and go get a new one.

The Volvo XC60 is the safet car in the class and otherwise fits your criteria but is probably at the upper end of what you want to spend. The GM Theta vehicles (GMC Terrain, Chevy Equinox, Cadillac SRX) are also very safe.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Dobermaniac posted:


[*]Features: Leather seats, nav, back up cam,
[*]Preliminary ideas : Test driven/looked at: Honda CRV and Pilot, Toyota Rav4 and Highlander, Ford Escape, Mazda CX5
[/list]

I'm going to say CR-V, but I'm biased since I bought a 2013 LX just about two months ago. At your price point I think you could tick off every option box there is and still come in at-or-under budget.

The three I looked at seriously were the CR-V, the CX-5, and the Escape. The wife vetoed the Escape so the only two we test drove were the CR-V and the CX-5. The CX-5 definitely has a firmer ride, but the 2.5L in it and the 2.4L in the CR-V seemed equally matched. The CX-5 was definitely a bit more eager to hold a given gear. What pushed us to the CR-V was primarily that the $22k base CR-V LX has a backup camera, while the CX-5 has to step up to at least the $25k CX-5 Touring.

In terms of longevity, I also like the odds on the CR-V slightly better. The CX-5 has a direct injection Skyactiv engine and based on my own experience with the Mazdaspeed3, it will need some significant maintenance work somewhere between 60k and 100k to clear the carbon off of the intake valves. The port-injected Honda K24 won't have that problem.

Room-wise, we can get our daughter's ridiculously huge Britax seat in the middle without moving either front seat forward at all, and I'm 6'4". Hatch area has room for her ridiculously huge stroller as well.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

Lawnie posted:


EDIT: I found a 2011 Jaguar XF Premium trim package in the area for $39750. Good deal?

Depends, are you married/dating a JLR dealer tech?

Let me put it this way, I've driven "unreliable" cars my whole life and I am a lot more tolerant about reliability than most other people here. The Jaguar XF is *not* a reliable car in any way shape or form. I remember one particular review on Autoblog, the XF has a funky gearshift knob/dial thing that rises up electrically out of the center armrest when you turn on the car, and all the writers were :smug: about "yeah, that will be fun when it breaks". What do you know, that exact loving thing broke in the exact way they thought it would (refused to rise up, rendering car entirely undrivable) *while they were reviewing it*. So what does that tell you?

I always thought they were kind of plain looking on the outside, not bad, just underwhelming, and there's no manual transmission, or really any compelling thing that makes it better than a 5 series, so why bother with the hassle?

Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Jun 27, 2013

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Lawnie posted:

Looks great, too bad I can't find one anywhere that isn't in Florida or Wisconsin. Something along these lines is exactly what I'm looking for, though. Really like the V8; having great performance would be awesome.

EDIT: I found a 2011 Jaguar XF Premium trim package in the area for $39750. Good deal?

Not convinced about the long-term reliability of Jags but that's a gorgeous car.

You could still afford a Mustang; hell, you can probably get a decent new GT for the amount of money you're talking about. OEMs will usually throw $500 at you for being a college grad.

I will also suggest a gently used A5 as a potentially interesting alternative, if you are leaning more towards luxury.

Friar Zucchini
Aug 6, 2010



HappySpaceScience posted:

Just graduated and getting a new car.

  • Proposed budget : Around $30,000. Not a big deal if it's several thousand higher.
  • New
  • Body style : 4-door, small-SUV/Crossover, or something similar
  • How I will use the car : This is the part I'm most unsure about, check below for more detail.** Short version. Commute to work. Occasional trips to tougher terrain where 4WD or AWD would be useful. Regularly transporting self, SO, and dog. No plans for towing anything at the moment. I would like a few of the additional bells and whistles and am willing to pay up to a soft limit of around $36k
  • Car knowledge : Average for a normal person, but minimal compared to just about anyone in AI. I haven't done much work on cars on my own, but I know my way around tools. To add, I will be pretty busy with work, so most of the time I'll leave maintenance up to the professionals.
  • Gas mileage target: City - low-mid 20s, Highway - 30+
  • What is important : Reliability, Maintenance costs, and to a lesser degree the look
  • Preliminary ideas : Subaru Outback or Forrester, Jeep Patriot. Also, the Subaru Crossstrek seems cool, but I'm hesitant to get a brand-new model.

**Extra info about my situation. I just graduated and moved from SE Texas to the Portland area for a job I start very soon. I've lived in Texas my entire life. Drastic change in lifestyle and climate. I went from making $20k to $80k+ and from flat, hot, and dry to hills, cold(ish), and wet. I will drive this car to work, but my current commute is only about 15 min. Also, now that I live somewhere that isn't 10-billion degrees 8 months out of the year, I plan to get more into outdoor-type activities, e.g. hiking, camping, so I would like something with 4-WD or AWD. My SO moved up here with me and she has a 4-door Civic so we'd like to get something with a little more room.

Modern Subarus give Toyota a run for their money when it comes for reliability. Jeeps don't. The Patriot isn't as bad as it used to be, but that doesn't mean it's actually good. The Crosstrek is just an Impreza on stilts, so it's not really all that new. If you're worried about new models, stay away from the Forester, but that also means you're avoiding basically the best car in its class. The Outback is also good, and it's still kind of a wagon which I think is great, but it's more expensive than the Crosstrek or the Forester (although within your price limit, except the high-end models) and it's not as good on gas so you might end up crossing it off your list.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Throatwarbler posted:

Depends, are you married/dating a JLR dealer tech?

Let me put it this way, I've driven "unreliable" cars my whole life and I am a lot more tolerant about reliability than most other people here. The Jaguar XF is *not* a reliable car in any way shape or form. I remember one particular review on Autoblog, the XF has a funky gearshift knob/dial thing that rises up electrically out of the center armrest when you turn on the car, and all the writers were :smug: about "yeah, that will be fun when it breaks". What do you know, that exact loving thing broke in the exact way they thought it would (refused to rise up, rendering car entirely undrivable) *while they were reviewing it*. So what does that tell you?

I always thought they were kind of plain looking on the outside, not bad, just underwhelming, and there's no manual transmission, or really any compelling thing that makes it better than a 5 series, so why bother with the hassle?

The interior is gorgeous and every rear end in a top hat in Westchester has a 5-er, but a lot of the attraction is for those who want something Different.

BeastOfExmoor
Aug 19, 2003

I will be gone, but not forever.


HappySpaceScience posted:

**Extra info about my situation. I just graduated and moved from SE Texas to the Portland area for a job I start very soon. I've lived in Texas my entire life. Drastic change in lifestyle and climate. I went from making $20k to $80k+ and from flat, hot, and dry to hills, cold(ish), and wet. I will drive this car to work, but my current commute is only about 15 min. Also, now that I live somewhere that isn't 10-billion degrees 8 months out of the year, I plan to get more into outdoor-type activities, e.g. hiking, camping, so I would like something with 4-WD or AWD. My SO moved up here with me and she has a 4-door Civic so we'd like to get something with a little more room.

Just as a heads up, I live in Seattle which is pretty similar climate and spend a decent amount of time in the mountains. Currently I drive a 1999 Corolla and make it up in the mountains a fair bit. I find that I rarely, if ever, am wishing for AWD, but am quite often wishing for more ground clearance. I mention this because it's what disqualified the RAV4 a CRV from my search for a new car since they only clear the standard 5.5 inches in their latest models. CX-5, Forester, Outback, and Crosstrek are all a few inches higher which makes a big difference. You can really do a lot in a small sedan. My parents hike constantly all over the Cascades and I think they have usually taken their 2001 Corolla and now their newer Civic up all those trailheads and I've never heard a complaint.

I loved the CX-5 in many ways, but I ended up going with the Forester because the backseat was way more roomy and I could get a manual transmission w/ heated seats and AWD for a few thousand less than a 2WD CX without any of those things. If you are commuting into downtown Portland and don't have to worry about carrying a bunch of baby stuff the smaller Crosstrek is very tempting. Keep in mind it's essentially a lifted Impreza with a lot of options. That generation of Impreza has been around since MY 2011 so it's likely had most of the bugs worked out.

Also, since you're coming from a much warmer climate you may have the impression that you need AWD for the snow and ice we occasionally get up here. Here's the fact in Western Washington and Western Oregon: When it snows, smart people stay home. It's typically only a once or twice a year thing and people aren't typically expected to do more than work from home unless they have some job that is absolutely vital. Now that I've said that, here's is some of Portland's finest drivers who didn't decide to stay home: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaksWCnHaDM

edit: Just to follow up on what Friar Zucchini posted while I wrote this, I believe the 2014 Forester used the same engine it's had for a while, so you're not looking at a first MY engine. I like the looks of the Outback a lot, but I can't figure out what advantages it has over the cheaper Forester at this point other than the wagon look. Interior size and storage are pretty similar and the Forester has newer tech.

BeastOfExmoor fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jun 27, 2013

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

Not convinced about the long-term reliability of Jags but that's a gorgeous car.


Maybe it gets better "long term"?



I'm sure the interior is a great place to wait for the flatbed.

CatchrNdRy
Mar 15, 2005

Receiver of the Rye.

IOwnCalculus posted:

I have no idea if SS Toyota and SS Honda are the same ownership or not - the whole point is if you walk in off the street, they slap on a shitload of extra packages and don't do much of a discount at all. The only thing it did help me with was they gave me what they claimed was a high (and realistically, middle of the road) trade-in on the MS3 I was trading in; if I had just done the internet thing I suspect they would've offered me a lot less on the trade.

My OTD was actually a tiny bit over $24k, since sales tax and new-car tags are a royal bitch. I did get about $150 back from the credit they applied from the existing registration on my MS3. On the plus side for you, the effective tax rate is down a point from when I bought. On the downside for you, I have no idea what you're trading in or what they'll give you on that (in AZ you only pay sales tax on the difference between what you trade and what you buy).

As far as pricing... a 2010 should be a good deal more price-flexible than a 2012, simply because it's an older-generation model. It seems like the rule of thumb right now for mass-market economy cars is that anything that's the same generation is going to hold retarded resale value, and you only start saving a non-trivial amount of money once you get to a previous generation model. When I was shopping, the only 2012s I could find were barely $800 off 2013 MSRP, so I didn't waste any time looking further.

My trade-in would be a rough around the edges, but very functional 2003 Camry nearing 170k miles. Even if they inflate the trade-in, I doubt it will be much compared to being a hardass on the internet. So the sales tax difference would be pretty significant.

I think I'm going to wait till Fall Clearance/End of Year type sales. The more I dig, the more I realize that all the "great deals" are ex-rentals or have a damage history. even mass-market 2010s, clean cars are barely 2-3k less than new. Here's to hoping for some great year end new/used events.

sullat
Jan 8, 2012


Proposed Budget: < $10K
New or Used: Used
Body Style: Station Wagon
How will you be using the car? Commute/driving around town/road trips
What aspects are most important to you? Safety, reliability, good mileage, good sightlines.

We're about to have another little nipper and we'll probably need a bigger car to haul around 2 kids and their associated paraphernalia. Thinking a station wagon might fit the bill; what some of the more reliable and affordable models out there? Looked at a Passat wagon the other day, seemed pretty nice, but even a 10+ year old one was going for $9000, which seemed excessive. What can we expect to get for under 10K?

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Throatwarbler posted:

Maybe it gets better "long term"?



I'm sure the interior is a great place to wait for the flatbed.

The dude has a three mile commute, just walk it!

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

sullat posted:

Proposed Budget: < $10K
New or Used: Used
Body Style: Station Wagon
How will you be using the car? Commute/driving around town/road trips
What aspects are most important to you? Safety, reliability, good mileage, good sightlines.

We're about to have another little nipper and we'll probably need a bigger car to haul around 2 kids and their associated paraphernalia. Thinking a station wagon might fit the bill; what some of the more reliable and affordable models out there? Looked at a Passat wagon the other day, seemed pretty nice, but even a 10+ year old one was going for $9000, which seemed excessive. What can we expect to get for under 10K?

Subaru Legacy.

Citycop
Apr 11, 2005

Greetings, Rainbow Dash.

I will now sing for you a song that I hope will ease your performance anxiety.

Well I went to the dealer auction today and ended up with nothing. I did learn a lot though. We went to the Manheim auction in Dallas. The lot of cars for sale looked like Disney world on the weekend, it was seriously more than you could hope to look at. When they started selling them I was blown away by how fast it was all going. No car sat on the block for much over 45 seconds. There were 15 lanes selling two cars at a time each so they were literally selling a car about every 2 or 3 seconds average. They blew through thousands of cars in two hours.

Everyone there but me knew exactly what they were doing and exactly how much to pay for every car. They were pretty much going for what they were worth with a few deals rolling away every now and then that you always wish you would have considered more after the fact. The most plentiful car had to be a 2011 or 12 Altima with about 15k on it. They were selling for 16k to 20k depending on the options and mileage. The car I considered the most was a 2012 Camry SE, white with 14700 miles on it. The guy was pretty firm at 16.8k and he received no bids. After fees and taxes was more than I had planned on spending.

Overall I was disappointing that I didn't find a gold rush. The reality is that dealer auctions and the car market are a finely tuned machine. There's profit (savings for me) there to be had but there is some definite risk involved. At the end of the day a typical buyer there has bought 20 to 50 cars and as long as he made more money than he lost he's happy. For me, buying one car, it's make it or break it and the whole system is operating at too fast of a pace to be 100% sure of anything.

What I did see was about 10 to 15 Toyota Prius. A 2008 Prius with 65K went for $9800 and that has me doing some math. A $10,000 car payment is very low and with the gas savings I'm looking at actually spending less total per month than my current situation. If the wife is spending $400 on gas per month with the SUV and I put her in a prius and at the end of the month with gas and car payment totaled less than $400 that seems very tempting at the moment. It's like a drat free car, and who could pass up a free car, especially one with all the cool nerd gadgets in the dash?

Citycop fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Jun 27, 2013

Nayt
May 13, 2013


Augmented Dickey posted:

A 2013 Impreza. The interior is simply garbage; there are loud rattles resonating from every corner of the cabin. I've taken it to the dealer three times; they 'fix' it and the rattles return after three or four days.

Also, I just can't get used to the CVT. The lack of on-demand power makes driving on Houston highways a terrifying experience.

I plan on looking at a CPO 2010 Genesis Coupe this weekend; we'll see how that goes.

Hyundai CPO is amazing. I would consider selling your Subaru private party, the market for that car is pretty solid.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

^^^^^^^^^
Gen coupes have issues with the manual transmissions being absolute garbage. If you don't like dash rattles, grinding gears will really, uhm, well you know.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

Subaru Legacy.

Yeah, if you can find (they're somewhat uncommon) a 2005-2006 2.5i (non-turbo) Legacy wagons, they're sub $10k cars all day. The outbacks seem to command much more for the same yeah/miles and are virtually the same but for the lift and the cladding. I would strongly recommend a 2005+ legacy as it fixed a number of issues from the previous gen.
They are certainly smaller than a B5 passat wagon (1998-2005), which you should never ever buy, not for $9k, not for $900, but far more reliable. Note that if you do like unreliability in an automobile (the B5 is a really nice car besides the fact that it breaks, a lot), you should never, ever pay $9k for one.

nm fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Jun 27, 2013

Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!

BeastOfExmoor posted:

Just as a heads up, I live in Seattle which is pretty similar climate and spend a decent amount of time in the mountains. Currently I drive a 1999 Corolla and make it up in the mountains a fair bit. I find that I rarely, if ever, am wishing for AWD, but am quite often wishing for more ground clearance. I mention this because it's what disqualified the RAV4 a CRV from my search for a new car since they only clear the standard 5.5 inches in their latest models. CX-5, Forester, Outback, and Crosstrek are all a few inches higher which makes a big difference. You can really do a lot in a small sedan. My parents hike constantly all over the Cascades and I think they have usually taken their 2001 Corolla and now their newer Civic up all those trailheads and I've never heard a complaint.

Echoing this - my wife has a 97 Geo Prizm that's seen a lot of trailheads in western WA, and when it dies (~180k now, probably has a few years left) we'll probably go for something with more clearance but the size is surprisingly good - you max out at about three people on a week-long backpack.

If it's your trailhead car, I would recommend going for something at least slightly used, so you don't end up a break-in magnet.

sullat
Jan 8, 2012


nm posted:

Yeah, if you can find (they're somewhat uncommon) a 2005-2006 2.5i (non-turbo) Legacy wagons, they're sub $10k cars all day. The outbacks seem to command much more for the same yeah/miles and are virtually the same but for the lift and the cladding. I would strongly recommend a 2005+ legacy as it fixed a number of issues from the previous gen.
They are certainly smaller than a B5 passat wagon (1998-2005), which you should never ever buy, not for $9k, not for $900, but far more reliable. Note that if you do like unreliability in an automobile (the B5 is a really nice car besides the fact that it breaks, a lot), you should never, ever pay $9k for one.

Subarus seem to command a premium here in Oregon, any other good models? So Passats suck, what about Jettas? Or, uh, other Japanese cars? Not too familiar with the different types of station wagons out there.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

Just expand your search to SUVs and minivans too. It would be nice if the US got as many wagons as the rest of the world, but it doesn't, so if you only limit yourself to "wagons" (something that has no clear definition anyway) then you're needlessly making things difficult for yourself.

Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Jun 27, 2013

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

sullat posted:

Subarus seem to command a premium here in Oregon, any other good models? So Passats suck, what about Jettas? Or, uh, other Japanese cars? Not too familiar with the different types of station wagons out there.

There are 5 types of mid-size to large wagons in the US:
Subarus
BMW
VW/Audis
Mercedes
Volvo

(There is also the Acura TSX wagon and Cadillac CTS, but too new to be found at 10k)

Regarding modern cars, the first two are the only ones for $10k I could recommend in good conscience (And BMWs still have german "issues"). BMW 5-series wagons are hilariously priced in good condition and 3-series are tiny.

I'd recommend going to the hilariously overpriced sellers and try to get a reasonable price, or take a trip down south to California where you can taste the air, but non-turbo subarus are cheap. I ran a quick search -- the only 2005 Legacy worth $13-15k is a GT wagon with reasonable miles, the rest are crack smokers. It would be worth driving 500mi to save $3k.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





CatchrNdRy posted:

My trade-in would be a rough around the edges, but very functional 2003 Camry nearing 170k miles. Even if they inflate the trade-in, I doubt it will be much compared to being a hardass on the internet. So the sales tax difference would be pretty significant.

I think I'm going to wait till Fall Clearance/End of Year type sales. The more I dig, the more I realize that all the "great deals" are ex-rentals or have a damage history. even mass-market 2010s, clean cars are barely 2-3k less than new. Here's to hoping for some great year end new/used events.

A car like that you could probably private party sale here for $5-6k easy, maybe more - and I bet they only offer $4k in trade. Not enough sales tax offset to justify it. There's no shortage of people in Phoenix ready to pay way too much for an unmaintained Camry with a lot of miles and a clutch near death.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

sullat posted:

Subarus seem to command a premium here in Oregon, any other good models? So Passats suck, what about Jettas? Or, uh, other Japanese cars? Not too familiar with the different types of station wagons out there.

Don't limit your search to Oregon. A one-way plane ticket or even shipping on a car could make up a fair amount of the difference.

CUV is probably your best bet if you are unwilling to pursue the Subaru. The A4 Jetta was extraordinarily unreliable. The Jetta Sporwagen is a nice car, but there will be maintenance costs associated with owning it. Don't expect Hondalike reliability.

dakana
Aug 28, 2006
So I packed up my Salvador Dali print of two blindfolded dental hygienists trying to make a circle on an Etch-a-Sketch and headed for California.

Proposed Budget: Under $20,000 if I can wrangle it.
New or Used: I'd prefer something with a warranty and thorough history, but I'm not against used cars. I'd like it to make economical sense in the long-term.
Body Style: Probably a compact
How will you be using the car?: This will be a daily driver. My commute isn't long, but I also do professional photography on the side, so something that can fit all of my gear comfortably would be nice. My previous car (2001 Nissan Maxima) did fine as far as trunk room was concerned, as does my fiance's Honda Fit. We're probably thinking that children won't be coming until at least 2015, and her car is a 2010, so by the time we'd need enough room for anything more than a carseat or two, we'll be probably replacing her car.
What aspects are most important to you?: Keeping costs down initially and over the lifespan of the car, long-term reliability, and safety are priorities. Beyond that, a smooth ride and low road noise is nice to have. Seats that fold down into the floor or flat are pretty rad for cargo, but I don't think they're essential. Tech is fun but nonessential -- I'm pretty happy with the navigation ability of my phone on a windshield mount, though some of the nifty handsfree features in the Civic, for example, appeal to me.

HappySpaceScience
Jun 5, 2013



So, it seems like amongst the Subaru trio there really aren't any HUGE differences, but the Forester is your suggestion. I'll be heading to dealerships in the next couple days to test drive a few to see what I like best, and I can also use the interim time to check out feature differences. Thanks for the help.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

HappySpaceScience posted:

So, it seems like amongst the Subaru trio there really aren't any HUGE differences, but the Forester is your suggestion. I'll be heading to dealerships in the next couple days to test drive a few to see what I like best, and I can also use the interim time to check out feature differences. Thanks for the help.

You can click my avatar for a bunch of shitposts I made in this thread about Subarus, but one reason to go with the brand new Forester is that because it's brand new, it aces every single crash test that the NHTSA and IIHS has thrown at it, and together wit the Volvo XC60 are the safest cars on the market right now. Just as well because according to most reviews the (non turbo, CVT equipped) base model really doesn't drive very well and has a terrible interior, so you know where the money went.

Lawnie
Sep 5, 2006

That is my helmet
Give it back
you are a lion
It doesn't even fit


Grimey Drawer

Is it a horrible idea to buy a 2009 Genesis V8 with over 70k miles on it?

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Throatwarbler posted:

You can click my avatar for a bunch of shitposts I made in this thread about Subarus, but one reason to go with the brand new Forester is that because it's brand new, it aces every single crash test that the NHTSA and IIHS has thrown at it, and together wit the Volvo XC60 are the safest cars on the market right now. Just as well because according to most reviews the (non turbo, CVT equipped) base model really doesn't drive very well and has a terrible interior, so you know where the money went.

The 4AT Forester also drove like garbage and has a terrible interior, for what it's worth. My mom replaced a 4AT Forester with a Crosstrek and it is a pretty solid improvement on both fronts.

Nayt
May 13, 2013


dakana posted:

Proposed Budget: Under $20,000 if I can wrangle it.
New or Used: I'd prefer something with a warranty and thorough history, but I'm not against used cars. I'd like it to make economical sense in the long-term.
Body Style: Probably a compact
How will you be using the car?: This will be a daily driver. My commute isn't long, but I also do professional photography on the side, so something that can fit all of my gear comfortably would be nice. My previous car (2001 Nissan Maxima) did fine as far as trunk room was concerned, as does my fiance's Honda Fit. We're probably thinking that children won't be coming until at least 2015, and her car is a 2010, so by the time we'd need enough room for anything more than a carseat or two, we'll be probably replacing her car.
What aspects are most important to you?: Keeping costs down initially and over the lifespan of the car, long-term reliability, and safety are priorities. Beyond that, a smooth ride and low road noise is nice to have. Seats that fold down into the floor or flat are pretty rad for cargo, but I don't think they're essential. Tech is fun but nonessential -- I'm pretty happy with the navigation ability of my phone on a windshield mount, though some of the nifty handsfree features in the Civic, for example, appeal to me.

Elantra GT is an option, the seats fold flat and they are removable. I have a customer that does Wood Carvings with chainsaws and she needed something that folded down flat because of her wood, saws and big dogs. We drove everything (Sentra, Prius A/B/C, CRV, Rogue, Santa Fe Sport, Fit, Venza, Dart). The fit seats don't fold flat and the fuel economy isn't there. The Touch and Go Package will give you under trunk storage as well as the chrome wheels, push button start, etc. MSRP for Auto starts around $19,000. Hyundai's Bluetooth is pretty sold (better than Nissans and way better than Hondas IMO).

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

HappySpaceScience
Jun 5, 2013


KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

The 4AT Forester also drove like garbage and has a terrible interior, for what it's worth. My mom replaced a 4AT Forester with a Crosstrek and it is a pretty solid improvement on both fronts.

Yeah, I'm probably going to go test drive cars today, so I'll try all of the Subarus and see what I like best. Won't be buying anything today. I still need to pit dealers against each other.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply