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Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!

If you know you'll drive a car into the ground and want a car with a known history, there are worse things than buying new, particularly with a relatively slowly-depreciating car like a Camry.

I can't speak to the price, but I'd take the 0% financing if there's not a big difference from the 3%. Don't go out more than a 5-year loan. What I would recommend is putting aside an additional amount in savings that's earmarked for the car (at least $100/month). I would not pay early on a 0% loan.

This additional savings will be there for maintenance once your car goes out of warranty.

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Kenny Rogers
Sep 7, 2007

Chapter One:
When I first saw Sparky, he reminded me of my favorite comb. He was missing a lot of teeth.


Engineer Lenk posted:

I would not pay early on a 0% loan.
Also this.
With a non-zero-percent loan, paying extra on the principal saves you interest payments over the life of the loan. Since there are no interest payments on a 0% loan, paying early is financially exactly the same as paying on schedule.

SO
You could pay an extra $100 on the loan, and get basically nothing for it, since you're effectively paying cash for the carą
or
you could put that same $100 into a savings or investment account with a return between 0.6% and 6% on it, and end up with $6,0000 to $7000 in the bank at the end of 5 years.

MrKatharsis
Nov 29, 2003

feel the bern


Kenny Rogers posted:

OPTION A) 0 Down, 15k miles/year, $448/mo. for 36 months.
$448 first month's payment due up front, which is normal and expected.
Probably a security deposit (A second full month's payment as SD is reasonable, and I should negotiate or walk away if they want more, yes?)
Acquisition fee of probably $700ish.
$348 dealer handling and "additional profit fee" (at least they're up front about it - it doesn't make me begrudge it any less)
So, if I'm figuring that correctly, that's $1944 up front, some of which could potentially be rolled into the lease with a modest increase in the monthly payment.
I don't know what the MF is, I'm calculating the residual at .59 or .60 ($17600 to $17900 ballbark).

OPTION B) Same deal, but trade in my 195,750 mile E36 M3 for ~2500 as cash down. I know that I can get (some) more for it in a private sale, so I'm not inclined to use it as a trade. This is a low risk option that does not maximize the value of an existing asset.
Payment of (N<$448)/mo. for 36 mo. 15,000 miles/year.
The deal would be similar to the last, but the upfront would be my trade-in, which would (in theory?) pay for the security deposit, ACQ, Handling/Profit, 1st month's payment, and have $550 available for Cap Cost Reduction. Am I correct there?

OPTION C) Put $2500 or $3000 down (temporarily) on my lovely high-interest rate credit card. Sell the M3 or my DRZ400 in a private sale. Pay the balance with the proceeds.
It's a more efficient conversion of my existing assets to cash. It's higher risk predicated on neither one selling, but not that much higher risk and I think the likelihood that NEITHER one would sell for $3000ish is fairly low.
This seems like the best option of the three Lease options to me.

You already own a car and a motorcycle, you're trying to lease a brand new car, and don't have $3000 cash already budgeted? This screams emotional purchase. Why would you put a down payment on a rental car anyway? If you crash it in the second month and insurance pays out, will you get the $2000 back?

It has been a while since anybody talked about the second half of this thread title. I know some car salesman came in here and talked a good game but

Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!

Oh, my BFC response would be more like this: pick a dollar repair value and/or number of days in the shop that is 'unreliable'. Drive your current car until it hits one of those markers, paying a comfortable car payment into a savings account each month in the meantime.

While you are waiting for your car to hit unreliable status, research reliability and features of late-model cars. Find a few good options with features you like, and look for value over the expected mileage of the car to decide on new vs used and narrow it down further. It becomes a word problem: you expect to put x miles/year on a car, you expect it to run to y miles, repair costs average z/year out of warranty. Find the price point/mileage that minimizes expected cost over the life of the car subject to the constraint that buying a car is a pain in the rear end and you want it to last at least 8 years.

Unamuno
May 30, 2003
Cry me a fuckin' river, Fauntleroy.

Recently, I was out of town and rented three different cars; spending a month driving newer cars really highlights the many flaws in my current ride, a 2000 Camry with 199k miles on it.

I'm also a complete car-purchasing noob. I have never owned a car that wasn't a hand-me-down from my sister or parents. I bought that Camry off my dad in 2008 and have averaged ~15k miles/year (so this makes leasing a terrible option, right?). I have been a bigtime sucker with money in the past (eg paying cash for law school, giving out unsecured loans to friends, etc etc), so I also have very high potential for buyers' remorse. So I don't want to go nuts on a luxury car or anything.

Proposed Budget: $35k
New or Used: New; I really don't want the hassle of doing due diligence on a used car. I know very little about cars, so I am a very easy mark for someone who wants to get over on me with a lovely used car.
Body Style: 4 door sedan. I'm too tall to comfortably drive a Corolla and too cheap to comfortably drive an Avalon so something about the size of a Camry/Accord suits me well. I don't like how the Prius or other hatchbacks look. Also, it has to be automatic transmission and I prefer FWD (one of the rentals I recently drove was a Mustang; it gave me flashbacks to the monstrous Chevy Caprice RWD station wagon I drove in high school).
How will you be using the car?: General commute/errand/golf outing type driving around Las Vegas. Some longer road-trips to places like LA, the Bay Area, Denver, Arizona, Mexico, etc.
What aspects are most important to you? 1. Reliability. 2. Quietness/Interior Comfort/Smoothness of ride 3. Safety 4. Good interface with iphone/other easy-to-use interior features (not to keep making GBS threads on Ford, but the Mustang's interface was exasperating) 5. Fuel efficiency 6. quality audio

The way I drive, I only really care about acceleration/"fun" enough to be able to get up to the speed of traffic on the interstate and maybe go 7-8 MPH above the speed limit. Nothing crazy.

Myproductadvisor.com recommends, for under $35k, the 2013 Accord CVT EX-L, the 2013 Chevy Malibu LTZ w/2LZ, the 2013 Buick Verano Premium Group, the 2013 Buick Regal GS, and 2014 Ford Fusion Titanium in that order. That's the only one of those "help pick a car for me internet" websites I've used. Are any of the above-listed cars so rotten they wouldn't even be worth test-driving? Thanks in advance for your opinions and advice.

Unamuno fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Sep 5, 2013

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

I was wondering who acuras were made for these days. You.

Also, all higher trim fords will have myfordtouch, which sucks. Cheaper trims of the same models won't have it.

Unamuno
May 30, 2003
Cry me a fuckin' river, Fauntleroy.

nm posted:

I was wondering who acuras were made for these days. You.

Also, all higher trim fords will have myfordtouch, which sucks. Cheaper trims of the same models won't have it.

Thanks, the Acura TSX looks like a pretty good fit for me. I'll definitely put it on the list of cars to test drive. I think right now the list is:

Honda Accord
Acura TSX
Buick Verano

I have a credit rating somewhere around 730. What kind of financing should dealerships be offering me on a car? Also, should I go through a car buying service (I have access to USAA and AAA services)? Are those generally cheaper than, say, driving back and forth between two (hopefully competing, not colluding) dealerships all day, gradually raising my extreme lowball offer until one of them accepts it?

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

I've seen people with 730s be offered 0% when they're trying to get rid of cars.
I'd put the Regal GS back on your list. Also, the Avalon is actually right in your price range, most people seem to think it is the top of the sort of near-lux fwd cruisers, though the seats are kind of hard (go sit in them).
Also, look at the Ford Taurus, in a lower trim to avoid my ford touch. Think it sounds more up your alley than a Fusion (though those are good too).

This is just at the max of your range and I've only sat in a pre-production model, but the Hyundai Azera actually wowed me. Absolutely gigantic inside and fairly nice.

Truecar is probably the better car buying service than AAA or something, though my parents have really liked these guys: http://www.cartelligent.com/
That said, you can do cheaper at the dealer. For these services you're paying for convenience, how much it really depends.

(Also, if it isn't too late, don't go to law school).

nm fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Sep 5, 2013

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

Unamuno posted:

Recently, I was out of town and rented three different cars; spending a month driving newer cars really highlights the many flaws in my current ride, a 2000 Camry with 199k miles on it.

I'm also a complete car-purchasing noob. I have never owned a car that wasn't a hand-me-down from my sister or parents. I bought that Camry off my dad in 2008 and have averaged ~15k miles/year (so this makes leasing a terrible option, right?). I have been a bigtime sucker with money in the past (eg paying cash for law school, giving out unsecured loans to friends, etc etc), so I also have very high potential for buyers' remorse. So I don't want to go nuts on a luxury car or anything.

Proposed Budget: $35k
New or Used: New; I really don't want the hassle of doing due diligence on a used car. I know very little about cars, so I am a very easy mark for someone who wants to get over on me with a lovely used car.
Body Style: 4 door sedan. I'm too tall to comfortably drive a Corolla and too cheap to comfortably drive an Avalon so something about the size of a Camry/Accord suits me well. I don't like how the Prius or other hatchbacks look. Also, it has to be automatic transmission and I prefer FWD (one of the rentals I recently drove was a Mustang; it gave me flashbacks to the monstrous Chevy Caprice RWD station wagon I drove in high school).
How will you be using the car?: General commute/errand/golf outing type driving around Las Vegas. Some longer road-trips to places like LA, the Bay Area, Denver, Arizona, Mexico, etc.
What aspects are most important to you? 1. Reliability. 2. Quietness/Interior Comfort/Smoothness of ride 3. Safety 4. Good interface with iphone/other easy-to-use interior features (not to keep making GBS threads on Ford, but the Mustang's interface was exasperating) 5. Fuel efficiency 6. quality audio

The way I drive, I only really care about acceleration/"fun" enough to be able to get up to the speed of traffic on the interstate and maybe go 7-8 MPH above the speed limit. Nothing crazy.

Myproductadvisor.com recommends, for under $35k, the 2013 Accord CVT EX-L, the 2013 Chevy Malibu LTZ w/2LZ, the 2013 Buick Verano Premium Group, the 2013 Buick Regal GS, and 2014 Ford Fusion Titanium in that order. That's the only one of those "help pick a car for me internet" websites I've used. Are any of the above-listed cars so rotten they wouldn't even be worth test-driving? Thanks in advance for your opinions and advice.

I don't really see why you must spend $35k on this car if you don't want RWD, luxury or speed. The Accord EX-L is a $25k car, if it does the job then spend the other 10k on a sport bike.

Skip the Regal GS. I don't know if you are aware but the GS is the absolute top performance trim of the Regal. Vs the regular Turbo it adds a more powerful engine via higher turbo boost, adjustable Hiperstrut suspension, Brembo brakes, bigger wheels and more bolstered(read: tighter more grippy) sport seats. Since you are not interested in going fast I'm not sure why you would want to pay for the fancy suspension and big brakes?

You can go try out a regular 2.4l Regal, but it really doesn't do anything that the Verano doesn't. It's not really much bigger, it's not faster, the interior is about the same, the only reason you would pick it over the Verano is that it looks better and has fancier suspension. You could say the same thing about the TSX, it doesn't really have any advantage over the Accord or most of the rest of the segment and it costs a fair bit more. All the reviewers and car mags seem to really hate the Malibu, to the point where GM is rushing a refreshed model into production next year after only 1 year of production. I also don't get the hype on the Fusion either. Yeah from certain angles it looks like an Aston Martin, but I don't know what else it has to recommend it. It has 4 or 5 engines that all lag behind the competition in fuel economy and power.

I think my list would be the following:

Accord: Does everything you need for much less than $35k.

Verano: Smaller, bit very nice interior and extremely quiet and comfortable on the road. Buick has its own infotainment system that is different from Cadillac/Chevy CUE and by all accounts much better. The 2.4l engine is adequate and I don't think you need to pay more for the turbo.

Taurus: The Taurus is a good buy right now because it's getting old. Truecar shows average transaction price of $22k for a mid-spec SEL FWD which is a lot of car for the money. The 2.0l turbo engine is more efficient than most others in the segment. Is very tall and built like a bunker, so you can't see poo poo out of the windows.

VW Passat: The Passat is turning into a disaster for VW and selling well short of expectations. Possibly because it only has one worthwhile engine and 40+% of sales are TDIs. VW is piling on the incentives and Truecar average transaction price for a base model S is a little over $17k which is ludicrous. The Passat use be to the slightly more adventurous European car that sold for a bit more than the competition. Now you can buy a one for the same price a manual trans Civic LX. Go with the smaller wheels to minimize road noise.

2014 Chevy Impala: Looks very nice inside and out and is probably best in segment right now, but given that it's brand new there probably won't be much room to negotiate in the price.

The Hyundai Azera, Kia Cadenza and Toyota Avalon are all nice but all start at over $30k and go over your budget quickly, and I don't really see much in them that isn't also in the above cars that cost less money.

Unamuno
May 30, 2003
Cry me a fuckin' river, Fauntleroy.

nm posted:

Truecar is probably the better car buying service than AAA or something, though my parents have really liked these guys: http://www.cartelligent.com/
That said, you can do cheaper at the dealer. For these services you're paying for convenience, how much it really depends.

(Also, if it isn't too late, don't go to law school).

Thanks. FWIW I dicked around with the USAA car buying service last night. If nothing else, it spat out some prices I should aim for. I'll probably try negotiating directly with the dealer(s) because the interest rate USAA offered me on a pre-approved loan was pretty rotten (while the rates competing dealers should offer after they see my credit score should be much lower).

And it's way too late re: law school, I'm already a (non-practicing) member of the bar. Pretty bad ROI on those bux so far.

Throatwarbler posted:

I don't really see why you must spend $35k on this car if you don't want RWD, luxury or speed. The Accord EX-L is a $25k car, if it does the job then spend the other 10k on a sport bike.
...and then maybe I could spend the other $200k on hospital bills. But seriously, thanks for the thorough response. It's extremely helpful to have actual information and informed opinions instead of basing this decision on emotion and admonitions from my mom not to buy "nazi cars." Since it's my first time going through the car-buying process, I'm probably more susceptible to making emotional decisions than average, too.

Throatwarbler posted:

Skip the Regal GS. I don't know if you are aware but the GS is the absolute top performance trim of the Regal. Vs the regular Turbo it adds a more powerful engine via higher turbo boost, adjustable Hiperstrut suspension, Brembo brakes, bigger wheels and more bolstered(read: tighter more grippy) sport seats. Since you are not interested in going fast I'm not sure why you would want to pay for the fancy suspension and big brakes?
I was not aware of that; thank you for the info. At what speeds do those named things become important? It'd have to be some sort of emergency for me to even consider going above, say, 90 MPH.

Throatwarbler posted:

You can go try out a regular 2.4l Regal, but it really doesn't do anything that the Verano doesn't. It's not really much bigger, it's not faster, the interior is about the same, the only reason you would pick it over the Verano is that it looks better and has fancier suspension. You could say the same thing about the TSX, it doesn't really have any advantage over the Accord or most of the rest of the segment and it costs a fair bit more. All the reviewers and car mags seem to really hate the Malibu, to the point where GM is rushing a refreshed model into production next year after only 1 year of production. I also don't get the hype on the Fusion either. Yeah from certain angles it looks like an Aston Martin, but I don't know what else it has to recommend it. It has 4 or 5 engines that all lag behind the competition in fuel economy and power.
Thanks; I'll probably stick with just test-driving the Verano. I still want to test-drive the TSX, if only to see what the differences are and if they come close to justifying the cost increase. Also, I think I'll avoid Fords in general for a couple reasons. First, NAZI CAR obviously. Second, really didn't like driving the Mustang. The complaints you make about the Taurus ("built like a bunker") really reminded me of the Mustang's lack of visibility.

Also, why do people prefer RWD? It always makes me feel like the car is going to fishtail, no matter how routine the turn.

Throatwarbler posted:

Go with the smaller wheels to minimize road noise.
Smaller wheels make for less road noise? Explains why the Mustang seemed so loud.

Throatwarbler posted:

2014 Chevy Impala: Looks very nice inside and out and is probably best in segment right now, but given that it's brand new there probably won't be much room to negotiate in the price.
I've always liked the idea of driving an Impala (if for no other reason than it gets mentioned somewhat frequently in rap lyrics). Best in segment makes it sound worthy of a test drive. I guess that makes the list...

Accord
TSX
Verano
Impala

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.


Unamuno posted:

Accord
TSX
Verano
Impala

With your requirements it's also worth taking a quick look at the Kia Optima and the Hyundai Sonata, just to round out the boring midsize selection. The Koreans make some solid cars now.

Edit: People also really like RWD because at a certain point you just can't put any more power through the front tires without problems. For smaller cars this number is somewhere around 250-300HP.

Twerk from Home fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Sep 5, 2013

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

We like rwd because oversteer (rear end getting loose) is better than understeer (car not turning when you want it to).

Samu
Jan 11, 2010

The only thing I hate more than hippie neo-liberal fascists and anarchists are the hypocrite fat cat suits they grow up to become.

I have a bit of a different question for you guys. I recently rebuilt a SBC 350 with the intent of putting it into an S10, but I've fallen out of love with the idea and also bought a new truck so I'm leaning more towards building a car. I want it to be street legal and weld in a cage to take it to the loacl track that just opened up.

The 350 makes around 400 - 450 HP, haven't got it dyno'd but when I rebuilt it I did a 30 over bore, new cam/crank, vortec piston heads, aluminum performance heads and I rebuilt the original quadrajet carb.

So I'm just looking for ideas and recommendations. I was thinking I'll probably go for an 80's Camaro but I like the 351 Windsor Mercury Comet swaps you see from time to time. I'd like to do a swap that won't require huge modifications, something fairly easy that'll make an insane car.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Samu posted:

I have a bit of a different question for you guys. I recently rebuilt a SBC 350 with the intent of putting it into an S10, but I've fallen out of love with the idea and also bought a new truck so I'm leaning more towards building a car. I want it to be street legal and weld in a cage to take it to the loacl track that just opened up.

The 350 makes around 400 - 450 HP, haven't got it dyno'd but when I rebuilt it I did a 30 over bore, new cam/crank, vortec piston heads, aluminum performance heads and I rebuilt the original quadrajet carb.

So I'm just looking for ideas and recommendations. I was thinking I'll probably go for an 80's Camaro but I like the 351 Windsor Mercury Comet swaps you see from time to time. I'd like to do a swap that won't require huge modifications, something fairly easy that'll make an insane car.
This is probably a mit more AI.
That said, the answer is a volvo 240 wagon. A reasonable well documented, apparently fairly easy, and completely awesome swap for great sleeper.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

986 Boxster S or Cayman S mit blown engine due to intermediete shaft like Das Volk had shouldn't be too hard to find, and the renegade hybrids swap kit is another couple grand.

Unamuno
May 30, 2003
Cry me a fuckin' river, Fauntleroy.

Weinertron posted:

With your requirements it's also worth taking a quick look at the Kia Optima and the Hyundai Sonata, just to round out the boring midsize selection. The Koreans make some solid cars now.

Thanks. One of the cars i rented was a Sonata. I thought it was alright; felt similar to my Camry but assuredly tighter/safer/quieter/less of a death trap. The Sonata had a few annoying iphone interface bugs (eg defaulting to the first song alphabetically on my iphone) that turned me off.

I test drove a 2013 Accord Ex-L today. It'll be tough to beat. It was super smooth, steering felt especially easy. Pretty comfortable seat, lumbar support was a nice touch. The car was quiet enough to listen to spoken word audio even when accelerating to reach interstate speed; sound system seemed pretty quality (eg good bass when listening to rap). I tried to test the "lane departure warning" feature; i saw a flashing alert on the dash display but didn't hear any sort of claxon or other audio cue (to be fair i was listening to music pretty loudly). Another feature i hadn't even considered (but like) is a side camera that activates when you turn on the right blinker, seems convenient for highway driving and parallel parking. My one minor concern was that the bluetooth/touchscreen interface had noticeable lag. The salesman said it gets better as you use the phone more with the car; seems a bit dubious but i guess there could be some caching mechanism that would improve responsiveness. I'm sure i'll find ways to nitpick any car's interface, but of all the iphone interfaces i've used the Accord's seems like the best.

Guess I'll test drive the Impala (free $50 amazon gift card), tsx and verano tomorrow. The salesman's manager at the Honda dealership seemed pretty open to negotiate. He gave me a highballish offer (28.5k iirc) and offered 0% financing (after initially pre-approving me for 1.9%; guess they're trying to anchor me). He also said he really wanted to move the 2013 Accords off the lot as he's (allegedly) getting a bunch of 2014s in the next week. No idea if that's true or standard car salesman bs. Invoice price is $26.5k so i gotta try to get closer to that, right? Or at leadt have them throw in some freebies like window tinting?

Here's another noob question: should the length of my car loan match the length of the warranty?

Unamuno fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Sep 6, 2013

Samu
Jan 11, 2010

The only thing I hate more than hippie neo-liberal fascists and anarchists are the hypocrite fat cat suits they grow up to become.

nm posted:

This is probably a mit more AI.
That said, the answer is a volvo 240 wagon. A reasonable well documented, apparently fairly easy, and completely awesome swap for great sleeper.

http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-1988-Volvo-240-Wagon-W0QQAdIdZ519688109

That would be pretty awesome. I'd like to keep the car looking beat up too, and this guy only wants 550 for his 88 beater Volvo Wagon.

Juando290
Apr 22, 2007


Unamuno posted:

Thanks. One of the cars i rented was a Sonata. I thought it was alright; felt similar to my Camry but assuredly tighter/safer/quieter/less of a death trap. The Sonata had a few annoying iphone interface bugs (eg defaulting to the first song alphabetically on my iphone) that turned me off.

I test drove a 2013 Accord Ex-L today. It'll be tough to beat.

So, as I stated a page or two ago...I am a car salesman at a dealership that sells many makes new...including honda and Acura. In a correct world, the Acura TSX should be nicer than the EX-L accord you drove. It is not. Other than looks and ride quality, the Tsx does not have the gas milage, rear seat space, lane departure warning, collision warning system, side view camera system, multi angle rear view with dynamic guidelines (if you get the Tech TSX, it has multi angle rear view, but at a lower resolution and no dynamic guides) no touchscreen, no keyless entry (stone ages...you have to take your key out of your pocket and hit a button) and that means you have the ability to lock your keys in your car...no chance of that with the accord, even if you try to shut it in the truck, it will pop back open on the accord. And since you mentioned iPod controls on the sonata, they are frustrating n the Acura. Bluetooth is clumsy on the TsX as well, with no voice control over your phone other than telling it to dial a number (like saying "dial, 555-555-5555") but if you want to call someone by name, you have to record a speed dial in your own voice associated with their number. The accord has true voice recognition so you say "Call bobby" and it will call bobby.

The pricing on the accord he is quoting is a joke. Msrp is $28785. Now I don't know what accessories are on it (all weather mats and cargo tray and mud guards I assume) but if he was quoting you that price without fees or accessories, then you really need to get them to come down. The car by itself, go for around 200-300 over invoice. Around 26,900. They will keep talking about how they can not hit that number, but if you stick to it they will cave. Don't let them "bump" you. The only reason they might not go that low is that honda is only offering the 0.9 for 36 or 1.9 up to 60 months...in order for him to offer you 0% is because they are buying that rate...so they have some skin in the game. If you go with the 0%, add about $200 on to my previous recommendation. With the accessories I mentioned above(if they already included them), a good price with the 0% interest would be about 27,500. The price he quoted you would be more fair for an EX-L with navigation.

And on that not, if you can swing it, do go with Navigation. It gives you full voice control over the entire climate control, navigation, phone (more in depth) and audio system...including voice search on iPods, "play artist, Bruce Springsteen". It also has a hard drive that stores between 350 and 400 CDs. The voice controls are a bit more intuitive than the fords. Like if you want to listen to 96.1 fm, you just click the talk button and say "96.1". It natively can figure out the difference of what number you said in relation to what you wan it to do. Want the car 72 degrees, press the talk bUtton and say "72 degrees"..."fan speed two"..."rear defrost on"..."find nearest coffee shop" etc. it understands roughly 1400 commands, so you really don't have to touch much in the center console once you get the hang of it. And don't be afraid of how complicated it sounds, most of those commands are redundant, like "navigation/address/destination" all take you to the same screen...it just makes it easier to talk naturally without having to remember specific commands.

Hope that helps.

TLDR....pass on the TSX, check out the remaining cars and then let us know what you think of the Accord you end up getting, haha.


Samu posted:

http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-1988-Volvo-240-Wagon-W0QQAdIdZ519688109

That would be pretty awesome. I'd like to keep the car looking beat up too, and this guy only wants 550 for his 88 beater Volvo Wagon.
I have an 86 240 DL with 336000 miles on it...I will drive that fucker into the ground. And it has a recently upgraded stereo...so it will die thumping bass someday.

Juando290 fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Sep 6, 2013

Unamuno
May 30, 2003
Cry me a fuckin' river, Fauntleroy.

Juando290 posted:

So, as I stated a page or two ago...I am a car salesman at a dealership that sells many makes new...including honda and Acura. In a correct world, the Acura TSX should be nicer than the EX-L accord you drove. It is not. Other than looks and ride quality, the Tsx does not have the gas milage, rear seat space, lane departure warning, collision warning system, side view camera system, multi angle rear view with dynamic guidelines (if you get the Tech TSX, it has multi angle rear view, but at a lower resolution and no dynamic guides) no touchscreen, no keyless entry (stone ages...you have to take your key out of your pocket and hit a button) and that means you have the ability to lock your keys in your car...no chance of that with the accord, even if you try to shut it in the truck, it will pop back open on the accord. And since you mentioned iPod controls on the sonata, they are frustrating n the Acura. Bluetooth is clumsy on the TsX as well, with no voice control over your phone other than telling it to dial a number (like saying "dial, 555-555-5555") but if you want to call someone by name, you have to record a speed dial in your own voice associated with their number. The accord has true voice recognition so you say "Call bobby" and it will call bobby.

The pricing on the accord he is quoting is a joke. Msrp is $28785. Now I don't know what accessories are on it (all weather mats and cargo tray and mud guards I assume) but if he was quoting you that price without fees or accessories, then you really need to get them to come down. The car by itself, go for around 200-300 over invoice. Around 26,900. They will keep talking about how they can not hit that number, but if you stick to it they will cave. Don't let them "bump" you. The only reason they might not go that low is that honda is only offering the 0.9 for 36 or 1.9 up to 60 months...in order for him to offer you 0% is because they are buying that rate...so they have some skin in the game. If you go with the 0%, add about $200 on to my previous recommendation. With the accessories I mentioned above(if they already included them), a good price with the 0% interest would be about 27,500. The price he quoted you would be more fair for an EX-L with navigation.

And on that not, if you can swing it, do go with Navigation. It gives you full voice control over the entire climate control, navigation, phone (more in depth) and audio system...including voice search on iPods, "play artist, Bruce Springsteen". It also has a hard drive that stores between 350 and 400 CDs. The voice controls are a bit more intuitive than the fords. Like if you want to listen to 96.1 fm, you just click the talk button and say "96.1". It natively can figure out the difference of what number you said in relation to what you wan it to do. Want the car 72 degrees, press the talk bUtton and say "72 degrees"..."fan speed two"..."rear defrost on"..."find nearest coffee shop" etc. it understands roughly 1400 commands, so you really don't have to touch much in the center console once you get the hang of it. And don't be afraid of how complicated it sounds, most of those commands are redundant, like "navigation/address/destination" all take you to the same screen...it just makes it easier to talk naturally without having to remember specific commands.

Hope that helps.

TLDR....pass on the TSX, check out the remaining cars and then let us know what you think of the Accord you end up getting, haha.

Thanks for your information, it's a big help. First, I suppose it saves me a test-drive for the TSX; if it's inferior to the Accord in many ways I care about, why even bother testing it when it's $5k more?

Second, you might almost sell me on a Navi if I go with the Accord. That Navi voice-command stuff sounds awesome; on the other hand, I'm not the biggest voice-command guy; for example, I've had the iphone 5 for at least a year and haven't yet used Siri. Does Siri interface well with the Accord? I ask because the controls for car-related stuff (temperature, rear defrost) are easy enough to find and reach; just wondering if it's worth the $2k extra for those things when I could (presumably) use Siri or something else to access google maps/music/calls.

Right now I'm definitely leaning toward the Accord without yet having driven the other two. Also, looking at the dealership website I missed an opportunity to get a $25 gift card from the Honda dealership. BRUTAL.

Socrates16
Aug 21, 2012

"Mr. Roark, we're alone here. Why don't you tell me what you think of me? In any words you wish. No one will hear us."
"But I don't think of you."

Proposed Budget: Less than 5000

New or Used: used

Body Style: 4 door would be nice, 2 door is fine if I have a backseat that can drop for a bicycle. Compact/midsize are fine

How will you be using the car?: Driving to and from work 1/2 hour each way on the highway five days a week.

Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos? IDGAF about any of that

What aspects are most important to you?

Reliable, low maintenance cost and good MPG. I don't care how it looks or anything else. Just get me from point A to point B at the lowest cost.

Juando290
Apr 22, 2007


Unamuno posted:

Thanks for your information, it's a big help. First, I suppose it saves me a test-drive for the TSX; if it's inferior to the Accord in many ways I care about, why even bother testing it when it's $5k more?

Second, you might almost sell me on a Navi if I go with the Accord. That Navi voice-command stuff sounds awesome; on the other hand, I'm not the biggest voice-command guy; for example, I've had the iphone 5 for at least a year and haven't yet used Siri. Does Siri interface well with the Accord? I ask because the controls for car-related stuff (temperature, rear defrost) are easy enough to find and reach; just wondering if it's worth the $2k extra for those things when I could (presumably) use Siri or something else to access google maps/music/calls.

Right now I'm definitely leaning toward the Accord without yet having driven the other two. Also, looking at the dealership website I missed an opportunity to get a $25 gift card from the Honda dealership. BRUTAL.

They don't have Idrive for complete control with Siri from apple yet, but from what I understand it will be a free software update when it comes out for people who purchased a 2013 accord between the end of the year and early 2014. Not sure if it will be integrated with the navigations actual navi functions, but you will be able to activate Siri from the steering wheel. I use the voice commands mostly for navigation and audio. It is way easier to get to an XM channel or find music on the HD or iPod or request a radio station than manually tuning.

Too bad you don't live in oregon. I could get it all handled for you with the goon connection.

Edit: One thing that really bothers me about Honda is that they don't advertise enough. They actually spend less money on advertising than any other manufacturer in the US. The problem is is that the navigation systems have had very good voice control for roughly 6 years but no one knew it. Better than fords or toyotas. They don't even have a catchy marketing name for it.

Juando290 fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Sep 6, 2013

Cyberdud
Sep 6, 2005

Space pedestrian

Proposed Budget: variable : Really used : 3500. Used : 11k

New or Used: Used

Body Style: 4 door car, I think it's a sedan?

How will you be using the car?: Driving to work on occasions, vacations, groceries / shopping and other random usage, driving to my girlfriend's place.

Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos? Don't care, Automatic car with air conditioner / heating, that will not kill me thats it.

What aspects are most important to you? Safety, Very reliable, low maintenance, lasts a long time.

I have my eye set on this 2010 automatic Toyota Corolla that is a return from a lease. Only one owner. Minor repair on front bumber (900 bucks) in the car proof report. I was able to get him to drop the price to 10500$

http://www.chassetoyota.com/en/used/2010-toyota-corolla-gr-commodite/5042543/

Is this a good deal? ( I am getting it inspected, ofcourse)

Unamuno
May 30, 2003
Cry me a fuckin' river, Fauntleroy.

Juando290 posted:

They don't have Idrive for complete control with Siri from apple yet, but from what I understand it will be a free software update when it comes out for people who purchased a 2013 accord between the end of the year and early 2014. Not sure if it will be integrated with the navigations actual navi functions, but you will be able to activate Siri from the steering wheel. I use the voice commands mostly for navigation and audio. It is way easier to get to an XM channel or find music on the HD or iPod or request a radio station than manually tuning.
Cool; I'm assuming I'd have to bring the car into the dealership to get the software update? Also, would I need the Navi to be installed to be eligible for this iDrive update? If something like that is around the corner and I wouldn't need the Navi to be eligible for the upgrade, it seems like a point against spending the extra $2k.

I don't really relate to the problem of tuning to an XM channel; I generally just alternate between a few presets unless I'm browsing. Really leaning toward not parting with the extra $2k, especially when I don't anticipate using the car's Navi function will beat out the habit of using google maps. Thanks for the information.

Juando290
Apr 22, 2007


Unamuno posted:

Cool; I'm assuming I'd have to bring the car into the dealership to get the software update? Also, would I need the Navi to be installed to be eligible for this iDrive update? If something like that is around the corner and I wouldn't need the Navi to be eligible for the upgrade, it seems like a point against spending the extra $2k.

I don't really relate to the problem of tuning to an XM channel; I generally just alternate between a few presets unless I'm browsing. Really leaning toward not parting with the extra $2k, especially when I don't anticipate using the car's Navi function will beat out the habit of using google maps. Thanks for the information.

I believe they are going to add it to all trim levels but i fo know it will be free. I don't have enough information to be 100% on the trims. I would imagine you will be safe with an EXL though. I would imagine that if they were stupid enough to limit it on trims that it would maybe be LX or the sport model that wouldn't get it. When they do add I drive, I will tell you that they are not going to allow the actual video to display from your phone up on the main screen. It will give you voice control through the BT system of your Siri. If you use the Google maps the nice thing is if you have Bluetooth audio turned on it will actually play the audio from your maps through your stereo system. (Or USB) if you were already listening to it as an audio source.

Juando290 fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Sep 6, 2013

Muscular Typist
Oct 11, 2004



Juando290 posted:

<really helpful info>

I'm actually looking at an EX-L w/ navigation as well so your posts are really timely for me too. I want to have a little bit of fun with it too though so I'm thinking of getting a V6. The thing is I can't find a 2013 version of this car anywhere so I'm forced to look at 2014s.

The best offer I've gotten so far is $30,450 (invoice for a 2014 EX-L V6 w/ navigation is $30,162 going by Edmunds) which seems like a pretty good deal, and within my ~$30k budget. Do you think that's a fair price or should I negotiate harder? Maybe a 2013 Touring trim would be a better deal if they're trying to push those off the lot?

Juando290
Apr 22, 2007


sat. posted:

I'm actually looking at an EX-L w/ navigation as well so your posts are really timely for me too. I want to have a little bit of fun with it too though so I'm thinking of getting a V6. The thing is I can't find a 2013 version of this car anywhere so I'm forced to look at 2014s.

The best offer I've gotten so far is $30,450 (invoice for a 2014 EX-L V6 w/ navigation is $30,162 going by Edmunds) which seems like a pretty good deal, and within my ~$30k budget. Do you think that's a fair price or should I negotiate harder? Maybe a 2013 Touring trim would be a better deal if they're trying to push those off the lot?

You sir, got an excellent offer for a 2014. If you want to get a headache, you can push them some more, but we are talking barely any more movement from that price.
The touring would be awesome, but even a 13 is going to be hard to talk down to near invoice, because those are a limited production vehicle...but if you can swing it, he adaptive cruise control is nsane on those . I just sold one a couple weeks ago...during he test drive, I had the guy set it for a two second follow distance. We were cruising along at about 60 mph and I had him take an off ramp behind another car and told him not to touch the brakes. The car decelerated with the car in front of us, from 60 mph down to ten as we approached the intersection in less than 300 meters.

Plus who does not like LED headlights? (I will say though, the LED lights look awesome as your actual headlights instead of accent lights like the normal V6 has or a Lexus etc...and they are supposed to last the lifetime of the car, but if you ever have to replace one after your bumper to bumper warranty expires, be ready for a $1,000 + shop bill)

Muscular Typist
Oct 11, 2004



Juando290 posted:

You sir, got an excellent offer for a 2014. If you want to get a headache, you can push them some more, but we are talking barely any more movement from that price.
The touring would be awesome, but even a 13 is going to be hard to talk down to near invoice, because those are a limited production vehicle...but if you can swing it, he adaptive cruise control is nsane on those . I just sold one a couple weeks ago...during he test drive, I had the guy set it for a two second follow distance. We were cruising along at about 60 mph and I had him take an off ramp behind another car and told him not to touch the brakes. The car decelerated with the car in front of us, from 60 mph down to ten as we approached the intersection in less than 300 meters.

Plus who does not like LED headlights? (I will say though, the LED lights look awesome as your actual headlights instead of accent lights like the normal V6 has or a Lexus etc...and they are supposed to last the lifetime of the car, but if you ever have to replace one after your bumper to bumper warranty expires, be ready for a $1,000 + shop bill)

Right on, thanks for the info. I test drove the V6 and it's definitely smoother ride than the 4-cylinder and packs quite a punch. The accent lights give it a nice distinct look. Not as nice as the touring LEDs, like you said, but I should control myself. I'm probably too much of a pansy to use the ACC anyway.

purpleandgold
Apr 13, 2012


Kenny Rogers posted:

I apologize in advance for the wall of text. Lots of options that I'd like to get a second (dozen) pairs of eyes on.

Read your most recent post. I agree with the go with a 2014, lease, enjoy the factory maintenance and warranty, and just upgrade when your lease is out. If the money works for you and yes, MINI do retain their value that well- go for it. They're fun little cars!

Juando290
Apr 22, 2007


sat. posted:

Right on, thanks for the info. I test drove the V6 and it's definitely smoother ride than the 4-cylinder and packs quite a punch. The accent lights give it a nice distinct look. Not as nice as the touring LEDs, like you said, but I should control myself. I'm probably too much of a pansy to use the ACC anyway.

Congrats on what may be your new car. I am at work right now waiting for an appointment to show on a 4 cylinder Exl navi. This is where I am totally a sales person though, because we have no V-6 in stock, so I'm gonna try my damnedest to convince her that the four-cylinder is the way to go...in that I will talk up the gas mileage. Worst case scenario, we order a V6 for her, but after not selling anything yesterday, I need to get something done today.

Kenny Rogers
Sep 7, 2007

Chapter One:
When I first saw Sparky, he reminded me of my favorite comb. He was missing a lot of teeth.


purpleandgold posted:

Read your most recent post. I agree with the go with a 2014, lease, enjoy the factory maintenance and warranty, and just upgrade when your lease is out. If the money works for you and yes, MINI do retain their value that well- go for it. They're fun little cars!
Thanks!
That's exactly what we did!
With my 'recovering' credit situation, I paid (much) more out of pocket than I'd initially expected, but it wound up being a "bad news/good news" situation.
The bad news is that they needed $3280 up front to make the deal happen.
The bad news is that the $3280 contained no Cap Cost Reduction, so the payment is about $30 more than I'd initially budgeted.
The good news is that 100% of the "at signing" money, less the first payment, is a Security Deposit - which we'll get back, less $350 disposition fee, at the end of the lease.
The good news is that I rebalanced the budget by deducting $30 from "dining out" each month.

I think I did OK, thanks to this thread.

2014 Mini Clubman S - 6 miles (Lease)
code:
$29,345 value of vehicle ($1000 off MSRP, and less than TrueCar said was the Target Price)
$ 925 Acquisition fee 
$30,666 Gross Capitalized Cost
$12,459 Depreciation
$18,207 Residual Value (0.60 rate - research showed that Minis go from 0.58 to 0.61 depending on month, so that seems OK)
$ 3,519 Rent (interest) charge.
$   479 Lease Payment & tax x 35
$17,115 net
vs.

2009 Mini Clubman S - 53,400 miles (Purchase)
code:
$18,699 value of vehicle + 
$ 2,400 MaxCare Warranty to 120k miles +
$ 1,600 Tax = 
$22,699 Gross Capitalized Cost
$   472 Loan Payment x 60
$11,600 estimated depreciation
$28,320 total of payments
$-7,000 estimated return from sale of 120k mile car, based on current 120k mile 2002/2003 Cooper S sale values
$21,320 net
And, yes, MrKatharsis, you are correct. Emotion did weigh more than a little in this decision. I'll grant you that.

Kenny Rogers fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Sep 9, 2013

Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!

It seems like you're comparing a 3-year term on the lease to a roughly 6-year turn-around time on buying the 2009 (full 60 months of payments, comparing to 2002/2003 for car value). If you want apples to apples, price out what the owned car would be worth at the end of 3 years if you were to sell it or trade it in.

visuvius
Sep 24, 2007
sta da moor

Thoughts on the new Mercedes CLA 250? Most reviews I've read have been generally positive. 208 hp isn't a lot but the rest of the car is kind of awesome.

I'm in the market for a luxurish sedan and this has caught my eye. I looked at a bunch of stuff yesterday and nothing has me as excited as the Mercedes at this point. The new IS250 which I was most excited about is nice but in my opinion overpriced and its kind of tight. The G37 was a nice car but the sedan is kind of boring. The Audi and BMWs I would want are out of my budget.

The CLA 250 is supposed to be $30K plus $2k for the sports package I want. Under $35K is my budget to which I'll contribute $15-$18k down so it works out in that department. I'm planning on setting up a test drive for when my local dealer gets them in on the 20th.

Kenny Rogers
Sep 7, 2007

Chapter One:
When I first saw Sparky, he reminded me of my favorite comb. He was missing a lot of teeth.


Engineer Lenk posted:

It seems like you're comparing a 3-year term on the lease to a roughly 6-year turn-around time on buying the 2009 (full 60 months of payments, comparing to 2002/2003 for car value). If you want apples to apples, price out what the owned car would be worth at the end of 3 years if you were to sell it or trade it in.
Fair enough. I was comparing planned disposition vs. planned disposition, but apples to apples is worth looking at.

2009 Mini Clubman S - 53,400 miles (Purchase, trade in on something else, or outright sell after 36 months, rather than carrying to full payoff)
code:
$18,699 value of vehicle + 
$ 2,400 MaxCare Warranty to 120k miles (transferable, under some conditons)
$ 1,600 Tax = 
$22,699 Gross Capitalized Cost
$   472 Loan Payment ($28,337 original total of 60 payments)
$16,992 36 payments made, ~40,000 miles driven.
$10,328 remaining loan balance in September, 2016.
$ 8,400 estimated KBB return from sale of ~95k mile car, projected from current 2006 Cooper S sale values.
OR
$ 7,400 estimated (KBB/Edmunds Clean Trade-in Averaged) Trade-in value, also projected from current 2006 Cooper S sale values.
It appears that I'd likely be $1900-$2900 in the hole after 36 months, whereas at this point I'm expecting somewhere around $2,450 in Security deposit to come back at the end of the lease, tipping the balance in favor of the lease closer to $5000, if I'm comparing those two things properly?

Kenny Rogers fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Sep 10, 2013

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

visuvius posted:

Thoughts on the new Mercedes CLA 250? Most reviews I've read have been generally positive. 208 hp isn't a lot but the rest of the car is kind of awesome.

I'm in the market for a luxurish sedan and this has caught my eye. I looked at a bunch of stuff yesterday and nothing has me as excited as the Mercedes at this point. The new IS250 which I was most excited about is nice but in my opinion overpriced and its kind of tight. The G37 was a nice car but the sedan is kind of boring. The Audi and BMWs I would want are out of my budget.

The CLA 250 is supposed to be $30K plus $2k for the sports package I want. Under $35K is my budget to which I'll contribute $15-$18k down so it works out in that department. I'm planning on setting up a test drive for when my local dealer gets them in on the 20th.

The big question mark is that its a first year model, which historically have various gremlins that get shaken out in later years.

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert


The MB CLA seems intriguing, but I don't know if I can get behind a 30K Benz. The corners have to be cut somewhere, and the question is where?. I also messed around an optioned one up last night and if you want one nicely loaded you're pushing north of 37K anyway.

I'm sure they'll sell a ton of them to folks who want to be seen driving a MB, but if I was dropping 30K on a car I would pick a Fusion Titanium over a stripped down MB CLA.

Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!

Kenny Rogers posted:

Fair enough. I was comparing planned disposition vs. planned disposition, but apples to apples is worth looking at.

2009 Mini Clubman S - 53,400 miles (Purchase, trade in on something else, or outright sell after 36 months, rather than carrying to full payoff)
code:
$18,699 value of vehicle + 
$ 2,400 MaxCare Warranty to 120k miles (transferable, under some conditons)
$ 1,600 Tax = 
$22,699 Gross Capitalized Cost
$   472 Loan Payment ($28,337 original total of 60 payments)
$16,992 36 payments made, ~40,000 miles driven.
$10,328 remaining loan balance in September, 2016.
$ 8,400 estimated KBB return from sale of ~95k mile car, projected from current 2006 Cooper S sale values.
OR
$ 7,400 estimated (KBB/Edmunds Clean Trade-in Averaged) Trade-in value, also projected from current 2006 Cooper S sale values.
It appears that I'd likely be $1900-$2900 in the hole after 36 months, whereas at this point I'm expecting somewhere around $2,450 in Security deposit to come back at the end of the lease, tipping the balance in favor of the lease closer to $5000, if I'm comparing those two things properly?

You never included the 2450 in the cost of the lease, so don't double-count it. Also, a true equivalence test would have you put the same amount out of pocket upfront, which tips it mathematically in favor of the used car slightly.

Kenny Rogers
Sep 7, 2007

Chapter One:
When I first saw Sparky, he reminded me of my favorite comb. He was missing a lot of teeth.


Engineer Lenk posted:

You never included the 2450 in the cost of the lease, so don't double-count it. Also, a true equivalence test would have you put the same amount out of pocket upfront, which tips it mathematically in favor of the used car slightly.
How does it analyze on balance if:
$2400 MaxCare Warranty was out of pocket (presuming that the extra $2400 would put the deal over 110% LTV) instead of amortized.
vs.
$2800 Security Deposit down, $2450 returned at the end of the lease (deducting $350 disposition fee from the balance at the end).

I pondered it myself, but got all turned around just now.
Gross Cap Cost is less, meaning the Balance Owed is less, but the payments are smaller, so I think I'm at roughly the same risk for being upside down after 36 months either way?

e: More math
code:
$18,699 value of vehicle + 
$ 1402 Tax = 
$20,101 Gross Capitalized Cost
$   418 Loan Payment ($25,080 original total of 60 payments)
$15,050 36 payments made, ~40,000 miles driven.
$ 9,145 remaining loan balance in September, 2016.
$ 8,400 estimated KBB return from sale of ~95k mile car, projected from current 2006 Cooper S sale values.
OR
$ 7,400 estimated (KBB/Edmunds Clean Trade-in Averaged) Trade-in value, also projected from current 2006 Cooper S sale values.
Purchase: No Warranty
Net: -$745 to -$1745

With $2400 Warranty out of pocket up front:
net: -$3145 to $-4145, trending toward zero if the warranty covers repairs during the warranty period.

Even if I'm not getting all the answers lined up properly on the first go-round, this is good exercise for my brain - thanks for that!

Kenny Rogers fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Sep 10, 2013

Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!

If the payments are smaller that should factor into it as the tradeoff you make for possibly being upside-down, since you could always pay the same amount and speed your payoff.

Kenny Rogers
Sep 7, 2007

Chapter One:
When I first saw Sparky, he reminded me of my favorite comb. He was missing a lot of teeth.


Engineer Lenk posted:

If the payments are smaller that should factor into it as the tradeoff you make for possibly being upside-down, since you could always pay the same amount and speed your payoff.
With no warranty comfort zone, any difference between the two payments ($54) would go into the Car Emergency Maintenance Fund.
If I didn't have anything serious go wrong in those three years, and used that to pay off any upside-down, then I come out up $200-1200 by purchasing, no warranty.
I come out -$1200-2200 if I use the extra $54/mo to pay down the loan, but buy the warranty cash up front.

Looks like drilling down into this more than Exxon shows that - in my case, at least, it's mostly a wash, with a very very slight bias against purchasing, because purchasing a warranty to reduce the risk of having to pay many thousands of dollars in repairs on a major component is also the very thing that sort of poisons the deal, and makes it a net loss.

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Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!

Kenny Rogers posted:

With no warranty comfort zone, any difference between the two payments ($54) would go into the Car Emergency Maintenance Fund.
If I didn't have anything serious go wrong in those three years, and used that to pay off any upside-down, then I come out up $200-1200 by purchasing, no warranty.
I come out -$1200-2200 if I use the extra $54/mo to pay down the loan, but buy the warranty cash up front.

Looks like drilling down into this more than Exxon shows that - in my case, at least, it's mostly a wash, with a very very slight bias against purchasing, because purchasing a warranty to reduce the risk of having to pay many thousands of dollars in repairs on a major component is also the very thing that sort of poisons the deal, and makes it a net loss.

On the other hand, it also shows how bad a choice purchasing the car at the end of the lease would be, because if you apply the same 0.6 multiplier to the cost of the used car you get residual value of $11,219 - at a point where the depreciation curve should actually be shallower than that of a new car.

The other possibility is that your estimates of trade-in value are quite low, or the 2009 was significantly overpriced.

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