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Monte Blood Bank
Dec 1, 2005

and we are faceless
you cannot attack us

take the money and then
run


Subaru WRX question: is market rate really 25%-50% markup on kelly blue book? I know they're great cars with solid resale, but I just talked with a salesman about a 2009 Impreza WRX sedan with 138k miles, 2 owners, and a minor accident, and they're asking 14000. KBB value is 10,500.

I have financing through a local credit union and am shopping countrywide via ebay motors. I get the gut feeling that the asking price on many of these Subarus is ridiculous.

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smackfu
Jun 7, 2004



KBB should be based on the prices of actual sales, so it shouldn't be far off from market rate.

Calidus
Oct 31, 2011

Stand back I'm going to try science!

Butt Bidness posted:

Subaru WRX question: is market rate really 25%-50% markup on kelly blue book? I know they're great cars with solid resale, but I just talked with a salesman about a 2009 Impreza WRX sedan with 138k miles, 2 owners, and a minor accident, and they're asking 14000. KBB value is 10,500.

I have financing through a local credit union and am shopping countrywide via ebay motors. I get the gut feeling that the asking price on many of these Subarus is ridiculous.

Most people drive their WRX into the ground or a tree so the used market isn't that big. I was given this line by multiple dealers: "Subaru is basically at capacity when it comes to production, so they are not producing very many new WRX because every new WRX is one less Legacy, Outback or Forester which is much easier to sell.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Butt Bidness posted:

Subaru WRX question: is market rate really 25%-50% markup on kelly blue book? I know they're great cars with solid resale, but I just talked with a salesman about a 2009 Impreza WRX sedan with 138k miles, 2 owners, and a minor accident, and they're asking 14000. KBB value is 10,500.

I have financing through a local credit union and am shopping countrywide via ebay motors. I get the gut feeling that the asking price on many of these Subarus is ridiculous.

Run the gently caress away from that car at any price.

Guinness
Sep 15, 2004



Nothing against the WRX itself, but frankly I'd only buy a WRX new. The ownership demographic is, statistically, exactly who you do not want to buy a used car from. Especially one that is turbocharged.

Relatedly, be sure to get an insurance quote on a WRX before you buy one. Depending on all the various factors, it might be normal cost or it might be LOL due to the aforementioned demographic.

Monte Blood Bank
Dec 1, 2005

and we are faceless
you cannot attack us

take the money and then
run


Good to know. I was looking for something maybe a touch sportier with 4WD for occasional hiking trips in the mountains of the Pac NW. Should I just go regular impreza?

Edit: budget flexible around 13k

BRAKE FOR MOOSE
Jun 6, 2001

It Could Save Your Life
HUNDREDS OF COLLISIONS



Butt Bidness posted:

Good to know. I was looking for something maybe a touch sportier with 4WD for occasional hiking trips in the mountains of the Pac NW. Should I just go regular impreza?

Edit: budget flexible around 13k

Skip AWD/4WD and you'll save yourself money, because you sure don't need it to drive to a PNW trailhead.

Awesome!
Oct 17, 2008

Ready for adventure!




Guinness posted:

The ownership demographic is, statistically, exactly who you do not want to buy a used car from. Especially one that is turbocharged.

is there something wrong with buying a used car with a turbo in general or are you talking specifically about wrxes owned by 18-26 year old guys who probably drive them really hard?

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Awesome! posted:

is there something wrong with buying a used car with a turbo in general or are you talking specifically about wrxes owned by 18-26 year old guys who probably drive them really hard?

I might be a little leery of buying a turbo car used, although modern turbos are quite reliable. It's more the flat-brimmed-hat-wearing Ken Block wannabe retards (full disclosure, I am a 27 year old male with a Focus ST) that cause the trouble.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Butt Bidness posted:

Good to know. I was looking for something maybe a touch sportier with 4WD for occasional hiking trips in the mountains of the Pac NW. Should I just go regular impreza?

Edit: budget flexible around 13k

Sportier than what? I have a friend who went from a 1998 Toyota Corolla CE 4-speed auto to a 2013 Chevy Cruze 1.4T and she thinks the Cruze is a loving rocket ship. It's all relative. What are you coming from?

Monte Blood Bank
Dec 1, 2005

and we are faceless
you cannot attack us

take the money and then
run


Monte Blood Bank fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Jan 15, 2017

Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!

disheveled posted:

Skip AWD/4WD and you'll save yourself money, because you sure don't need it to drive to a PNW trailhead.

Seconding this - our 97 Geo Prizm has worked just fine getting to trailheads (and not getting broken into) for years.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Butt Bidness posted:

2003 Accura integra. I liked having a fairly reliable hatchback, and I'd like a manual this time around if possible.

The Integra is sportyish, but basically anything you get with a manual is going to be sportier feeling with some exceptions.

Ford Focus would be a good choice with a manual. A Mazda3 would also be a good choice, again with a manual.

It will be tough to get something that is practical and reliable and significantly faster at your budget number.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Are the non-GTI Golfs a decent sporty option? Or out of the budget? I imagine they are available with decent MTs.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







priznat posted:

Are the non-GTI Golfs a decent sporty option? Or out of the budget? I imagine they are available with decent MTs.

Flappy-paddle GTIs are actually an option, yes. E.g.,
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/4796703249.html

That would be a mark V I believe, so not as unreliable as the old MkIVs, and it looks to be in reasonable shape.

Frankly though that price makes me suspicious, because it's lower than e.g.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/4791156706.html

which is a regular golf, only a year older, lower miles, and at least as good condition, with an auto gearbox and significantly more expensive.

At the top of the $13k price range, though, you can get a fully manual GTI like this one:
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/4791342341.html

That price actually seems more line with what I'm used to for golfs.

theHUNGERian
Feb 23, 2006



Throatwarbler posted:

A Jeep compass or patriot should do the job.

A Jeep is more reliable than an Outback, Volvo XC, Honda CR-V, and Nissan XTerra? I am confused because of this. I realize that the Volvo will not fulfill my requirement for low maintenance cost (luxury brand = luxury prices for parts).

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005


theHUNGERian posted:

A Jeep is more reliable than an Outback, Volvo XC, Honda CR-V, and Nissan XTerra? I am confused because of this. I realize that the Volvo will not fulfill my requirement for low maintenance cost (luxury brand = luxury prices for parts).

Mercedes number 2...? That seems to go against conventional wisdom. Also, kind of like you said, that is problems per 100 cars and totally ignores the cost of the repair.

[Edit: I agree Jeeps suck. Don't tell the guys in AI.]

EugeneJ
Feb 5, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


I think this site is more accurate for repairs/long-term reliability:
http://www.tradeinqualityindex.com/

This manufacturer chart they made is about right:


I completely forgot about Geo cars and would totally grab one off craigslist if I could drive stick. They seem pretty drat reliable.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

It seems like every time I've seen one of those reliability surveys Land Rover is really near the bottom, if not the worst. They must be positively dire. I imagine they wouldn't be cheap repairs either.

VideoTapir
Oct 18, 2005

He'll tire eventually.


theHUNGERian posted:

A Jeep is more reliable than an Outback, Volvo XC, Honda CR-V, and Nissan XTerra? I am confused because of this. I realize that the Volvo will not fulfill my requirement for low maintenance cost (luxury brand = luxury prices for parts).

JD Power Vehicle Dependability counts number of problems per vehicle in, IIRC, through the first year and/or the third year. (I think there are two different rankings for that?) Regardless, it doesn't go very long, and it counts things that don't stop the car from going to point A to point B.

That doesn't mean the Jeep Compass and Patriot aren't pieces of poo poo, it means that the JD Power surveys don't tell you anything one way or the other. JD Power exists to give manufacturers something to point to and say "see, buy our cars!" They make their money by licensing their trademark to manufacturers to use in their advertisements. They work for the manufacturers, not for you. It is only useful at all if you are buying a new car, and then take it with a grain of salt.


Edit: This might be better, but I'm not familiar enough with it to know if they are to be trusted.
http://www.truedelta.com/

VideoTapir fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Dec 10, 2014

Nuclear Tourist
Apr 7, 2005

L'absinthe, c'est la mort!

Internet Explorer posted:

[Edit: I agree Jeeps suck. Don't tell the guys in AI.]

From a reliability standpoint, you mean? Otherwise it depends on what Jeep you're talking about. About a year ago I had a rental Grand Cherokee for a week and I thought it was lovely and very comfortable, even looked pretty good for a big boxy SUV. I've also driven a rental first-gen Jeep Compass which is a vehicle that I'm pretty sure was designed and built by drunken apes.

MrKatharsis
Nov 29, 2003

feel the bern


EugeneJ posted:

I think this site is more accurate for repairs/long-term reliability:
http://www.tradeinqualityindex.com/

This manufacturer chart they made is about right:


I completely forgot about Geo cars and would totally grab one off craigslist if I could drive stick. They seem pretty drat reliable.

Depends on the Geo. The Prizm is straight out of the Toyota factory. Don't let anybody you like ride in a metro or Storm.

Monte Blood Bank
Dec 1, 2005

and we are faceless
you cannot attack us

take the money and then
run


Leperflesh posted:

At the top of the $13k price range, though, you can get a fully manual GTI like this one:
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/4791342341.html

That price actually seems more line with what I'm used to for golfs.

Again, though, this price is nowhere near the KBB price (8.2k). I understand 1-2k, but 4-5k above KBB still seems like market distortion. Or that I'm terrible with their online tool.

theHUNGERian
Feb 23, 2006



VideoTapir posted:

JD Power Vehicle Dependability counts number of problems per vehicle in, IIRC, through the first year and/or the third year. (I think there are two different rankings for that?) Regardless, it doesn't go very long, and it counts things that don't stop the car from going to point A to point B.

That doesn't mean the Jeep Compass and Patriot aren't pieces of poo poo, it means that the JD Power surveys don't tell you anything one way or the other. JD Power exists to give manufacturers something to point to and say "see, buy our cars!" They make their money by licensing their trademark to manufacturers to use in their advertisements. They work for the manufacturers, not for you. It is only useful at all if you are buying a new car, and then take it with a grain of salt.


Edit: This might be better, but I'm not familiar enough with it to know if they are to be trusted.
http://www.truedelta.com/

Thanks for the link. I'll take a look.

I wasn't trying to generalize an entire brand, I was still talking in the context of my requirements (see last post of previous page).

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004



The metro is that hillarious 3 cylinder hatchback/convertable right?

Why is the Mini so loving awful on that chart? They rank worse than Saab and Lincoln together.

SLICK GOKU BABY
Jun 12, 2001

Havin' a roni


SLICK GOKU BABY posted:

Hello, I recently bought a used car and have myself in a less than perfect situation.

I bought a reasonably nice mid 00s car from a dealer, final price was 2200 that didn't disclose had a previos salvage title. I have contacted the sales person about the issue and have in writing that he didn't know about the title issue.

He asked what I would like him too do to make the situation right and I'm not sure what / how much to ask for.

I am in a state where written disclosure of previous salvage is required by a dealer.

Sorry to put this back up but I am really struggling with asking for a full re efund or finding a reasonable price adjustment to compensate for the lower resale value in the future.

Space Gopher
Jul 31, 2006

BLITHERING IDIOT AND HARDCORE DURIAN APOLOGIST. LET ME TELL YOU WHY THIS SHIT DON'T STINK EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW IT DOES BECAUSE I'M SUPER CULTURED.


SLICK GOKU BABY posted:

Sorry to put this back up but I am really struggling with asking for a full re efund or finding a reasonable price adjustment to compensate for the lower resale value in the future.

Get the refund, and be glad you live somewhere that's an option.

There is no way a competent dealer would buy a car for resale without knowing it had a salvage title. Either they're too pants-on-head stupid to pay for carfax, or they're lying to you. The sales guy is probably banking on you taking a token payoff to keep a car they couldn't sell if they were honest in the first place. Get your money back before you're stuck with a terrible car that wasn't ever worth repairing.

Remy Marathe
Mar 15, 2007




For the sake of argument- what if he could angle for a substantial refund? Who finds a car that's not a piece of poo poo in need of major repairs for < $2000 anymore?

Resale value seems pretty ridiculous to consider on a $2200 car. What if he could get it down to like $1000-$1500, AND is confident in it being [reasonably] mechanically sound, AND he's already established the insurance situation as acceptable (who buys more than basic liability on a $2k car?), AND he means to drive it into the ground and expect nothing more than a few bucks from his local auto recycler when he's done with it? Couldn't this be turned into a reasonably priced disposable car?

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

theHUNGERian posted:

A Jeep is more reliable than an Outback, Volvo XC, Honda CR-V, and Nissan XTerra? I am confused because of this. I realize that the Volvo will not fulfill my requirement for low maintenance cost (luxury brand = luxury prices for parts).

Yes, a $7k to $10k Jeep Compass will be more reliable than a $7k-$10k any of the above, because the Jeep will be much newer.

Some Jeeps are very unreliable, the old Grand Cherokees are very unreliable, the new ones might be a bit better but still bad especially with the air suspension. The Wrangler is unreliable and shoddily built to the point where there is more than one instance of someone getting a new Wrangler with mismatched fenders (one side painted the other not). Those tend to drag their average down. Jeep's top sellers are the GC and Wrangler, the Compass/Patriot are relatively low volume sellers in the lineup.

The Compass and Patriot are quite reliable, probably the most reliable Jeeps you could ever buy. They are essentially just Dodge Calibers with different sheetmetal. The 4 cyl engines are fine, the CVT is fine, just get the FWD version and you don't even need to worry about any other driveline components.

The only major reliability issue with them is that prior to 2011 the suspension used low quality bushings that failed often, and the dealer solution is always to replace all the control arms which got very expensive quite quickly. This was fixed in 2011 AFAIK, you should try to get one newer than that, and even on the old ones you can get after market suspension parts that fix the problem so you only need to replace them once.

SLICK GOKU BABY
Jun 12, 2001

Havin' a roni


Remy Marathe posted:

For the sake of argument- what if he could angle for a substantial refund? Who finds a car that's not a piece of poo poo in need of major repairs for < $2000 anymore?

Resale value seems pretty ridiculous to consider on a $2200 car. What if he could get it down to like $1000-$1500, AND is confident in it being [reasonably] mechanically sound, AND he's already established the insurance situation as acceptable (who buys more than basic liability on a $2k car?), AND he means to drive it into the ground and expect nothing more than a few bucks from his local auto recycler when he's done with it? Couldn't this be turned into a reasonably priced disposable car?

This is the exact thing that I've been considering. From doing some digging around I do know that a local body shop performed the repairs on the car (they owned the car for ~8 months). Its been 5 years since then, not sure if they would have the records or if they would be willing to share them if a random person called and asked about it.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

hey dude read the loving thread title

Michael Scott
Jan 3, 2010

by zen death robot


The world is composed of hardfast rules with no exceptions.

IRQ
Sep 9, 2001

SUCK A DICK, DUMBSHITS!



Michael Scott posted:

The world is composed of hardfast rules with no exceptions.

Only Sith deal in absolutes, and salvage titles.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Michael Scott posted:

The world is composed of hardfast rules with no exceptions.

With salvage titles, yes, unless you actually know what you're doing.

Dude can get his money back in full. Get that money and do literally anything else.

theHUNGERian
Feb 23, 2006



Throatwarbler posted:

Yes, a $7k to $10k Jeep Compass will be more reliable than a $7k-$10k any of the above, because the Jeep will be much newer.

Some Jeeps are very unreliable, the old Grand Cherokees are very unreliable, the new ones might be a bit better but still bad especially with the air suspension. The Wrangler is unreliable and shoddily built to the point where there is more than one instance of someone getting a new Wrangler with mismatched fenders (one side painted the other not). Those tend to drag their average down. Jeep's top sellers are the GC and Wrangler, the Compass/Patriot are relatively low volume sellers in the lineup.

The Compass and Patriot are quite reliable, probably the most reliable Jeeps you could ever buy. They are essentially just Dodge Calibers with different sheetmetal. The 4 cyl engines are fine, the CVT is fine, just get the FWD version and you don't even need to worry about any other driveline components.

The only major reliability issue with them is that prior to 2011 the suspension used low quality bushings that failed often, and the dealer solution is always to replace all the control arms which got very expensive quite quickly. This was fixed in 2011 AFAIK, you should try to get one newer than that, and even on the old ones you can get after market suspension parts that fix the problem so you only need to replace them once.

I used to think that a car with 100k miles and no major maintenance is better than a car with 30k miles and no warranty. Is this thinking wrong? I thought even Audi used to only use engines with 100k miles on them for their Le mans races back when Audi was the back-to-back-to-back... champion (somewhere between the 70s and the 90s).

Remy Marathe
Mar 15, 2007




SLICK GOKU BABY posted:

This is the exact thing that I've been considering. From doing some digging around I do know that a local body shop performed the repairs on the car (they owned the car for ~8 months). Its been 5 years since then, not sure if they would have the records or if they would be willing to share them if a random person called and asked about it.

Well the records won't show how well the work was done, and being "the record" and mechanics being generally untrustworthy individuals, it may even refer to things that weren't actually done. If you aren't assuming that car's very possibly a timebomb with used condoms stuffed where the airbags used to be, and happy with it anyway, then yeah return the car dude. No old invoice should be able to put your mind at ease.

Grumpwagon
May 5, 2007
I am a giant assfuck who needs to harden the fuck up.



How obvious is a salvage title? If (a malicious) someone were to attempt to sell a car with a salvage title, and didn't disclose it, when would you find out? Is it obvious on the actual paper title? Would you find out when trying to get insurance? Or is it just something like Carfax where you'd find it?

Michael Scott
Jan 3, 2010

by zen death robot


Salvage titles are controlled by insurance companies/state governments in most cases (as opposed to simple repair work being under the purview of body shops if it's not reported to insurance). So there's really no way to hide it once a VIN has been marked as a salvage.

Insurance companies must report the salvage VIN to the state government once they total out a vehicle.

So there are two ways to hide a salvage. One way is to hide the VIN from the buyers. The second is never to have an insurance company actually total/salvage out the VIN. Theoretically you could cover repair out of pocket AND have the shop not report to carfax, but that is very rare and unfeasible.

Michael Scott fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Dec 10, 2014

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Or you find a state or series of states that aren't good about keeping salvage notes on titles, and re-title the vehicle once or twice. Which is shady as gently caress and probably illegal on some level, but it can and does happen.

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VideoTapir
Oct 18, 2005

He'll tire eventually.


IOwnCalculus posted:

Or you find a state or series of states that aren't good about keeping salvage notes on titles, and re-title the vehicle once or twice. Which is shady as gently caress and probably illegal on some level, but it can and does happen.

It's also something that should be detectable on Carfax, unless you happen to live in said state.

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