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Vintersorg
Mar 3, 2004

PRESIDENT OF THE OFFICIAL BRENDAN FRASER FAN CLUB





Sadly it does come down to just new and shiny. You're 100% right tho - there is no reason for me to queue up another debt hole. I can afford it without issue - thats not the problem - but that money can be used for better things, more savings.

You've steered me in the right direction - thanks.

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H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


Vintersorg posted:

Sadly it does come down to just new and shiny. You're 100% right tho - there is no reason for me to queue up another debt hole. I can afford it without issue - thats not the problem - but that money can be used for better things, more savings.

You've steered me in the right direction - thanks.

Making the payments and affording something are two different statements. Hit up various "bad with finances" threads to see why. Never let a dealer talk to you in terms of payments. When they put the four boxes in front of you write zeros in all of them.

CornHolio
May 20, 2001



Toilet Rascal

Alright guys, I don't remember if I've asked this before but I'm asking again.

I'm going to be (hopefully in the next year) getting a new car. My current car is a 2000 BMW 540i that will be hitting 200k this month. I don't see it not starting to be expensive. It already needs several thousand dollars in work (nothing major, just a full suspension refresh, a clutch soon, tires, some other odds and ends) and I'm ready to get something made significantly newer.

I've kinda settled on a 2015+ Dodge Challenger. I want something with a useable backseat, good power, a manual transmission and modern conveniences like a backup camera and satellite radio. The Challenger seems to have everything I need and I can get it with nothing I don't (radar assist, lane departure warning, etc). The one I've specced out is about $36k. I've driven one with almost exactly the specs I'd get and while I feel the heft and don't like the visibility, I enjoyed it.

My problem becomes, what else could I be looking at, new or used, for that kind of money? New I don't really see anything to compare it to, but used, I could look at a BMW 135i (smaller but ticks a lot of the same boxes, doesn't have the nice Uconnect system the Dodge does). I really like the new Mustangs and could get a lot of car (and like Fords, my wife has a newer Focus and it's really super) but the backseat is unuseable even for my kids.

I'd get a used Challenger, but in 2015 they updated the interior and went from utter garbage to really loving nice (in my opinion). I'd get a Charger but they're not available with a manual and don't look nearly as good anyway.

Ideas?

CornHolio fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Feb 11, 2016

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




Offhand that might fit the bill:

Used Audi S5
Camaro
G37 Coupe
Wacky idea: Golf R (not two doors, not sure how important that is to you)

There really isn't much other than ponycars.

Also, what do you want for the E39?

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






CornHolio posted:

Alright guys, I don't remember if I've asked this before but I'm asking again.

I'm going to be (hopefully in the next year) getting a new car. My current car is a 2000 BMW 540i that will be hitting 200k this month. I don't see it not starting to be expensive. It already needs several thousand dollars in work (nothing major, just a full suspension refresh, a clutch soon, tires, some other odds and ends) and I'm ready to get something made significantly newer.

I've kinda settled on a 2015+ Dodge Challenger. I want something with a useable backseat, good power, a manual transmission and modern conveniences like a backup camera and satellite radio. The Challenger seems to have everything I need and I can get it with nothing I don't (radar assist, lane departure warning, etc). The one I've specced out is about $36k. I've driven one with almost exactly the specs I'd get and while I feel the heft and don't like the visibility, I enjoyed it.

My problem becomes, what else could I be looking at, new or used, for that kind of money? New I don't really see anything to compare it to, but used, I could look at a BMW 135i (smaller but ticks a lot of the same boxes, doesn't have the nice Uconnect system the Dodge does). I really like the new Mustangs and could get a lot of car (and like Fords, my wife has a newer Focus and it's really super) but the backseat is unuseable even for my kids.

I'd get a used Challenger, but in 2015 they updated the interior and went from utter garbage to really loving nice (in my opinion). I'd get a Charger but they're not available with a manual and don't look nearly as good anyway.

Ideas?

Focus RS.

CornHolio
May 20, 2001



Toilet Rascal

KillHour posted:

Focus RS.

That did cross my mind, but how would it be as a daily driver?

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

Offhand that might fit the bill:

Used Audi S5 - How would this be post-warranty though?
Camaro - I hate GM products, the look of the Camaro, and I think the back would be pretty useless
G37 Coupe - Interesting idea, maybe worth looking into
Wacky idea: Golf R (not two doors, not sure how important that is to you) - I'd honestly rather have four doors, never been a big VW guy though. Maybe worth looking into this too though.

quote:


Also, what do you want for the E39?

Not sure. It isn't worth much, I think, due to the miles and some minor rust. I'm considering keeping it around as a winter beater and selling my Volvo (also not worth much)... how much would a 200k 540i/6 go for that has some rust and needs all new ball joints and bushings?

CornHolio fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Feb 11, 2016

Guinness
Sep 15, 2004



CornHolio posted:

That did cross my mind, but how would it be as a daily driver?

Compared to a 540i or a Challenger/Charger, or even a 135i, harsh as gently caress.

I really want to like the RS and I'm kind of waiting to buy anything new until they are for sale and can be cross-shopped, but I'm not holding my breath. To justify the price it'd have to be my single do-everything car, and I imagine that it'll be obnoxious to drive around town and on road trips with normal people. Plus there's also the fact that even with all the whiz bang go fast bits you're still spending 40k+ on a Ford Focus. And that's ignoring all the dealer fuckery with markups and no-test-drives rules that will surely happen in the first year of availability because dealers are arseholes.

In the real world where I'm spending my own money and living with the car on a daily basis, I'd honestly be more tempted by the Focus ST, if only it had AWD...

Guinness fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Feb 11, 2016

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert



Not many options with a manual transmission.

With GM off the table the SS, Impala, and the recent Buicks are off the table.
Ford doesn't have anything of note, although the new 2017 Fusion V6 Sport will be around 36K to start when it comes out later this year.

Not sure how you feel about the imports. A Genesis Sedan has always intrigued me. 36K also gets you close to/in to CPO 5 series territory if you want another BMW.

CornHolio
May 20, 2001



Toilet Rascal

skipdogg posted:

Not many options with a manual transmission.

With GM off the table the SS, Impala, and the recent Buicks are off the table.
Ford doesn't have anything of note, although the new 2017 Fusion V6 Sport will be around 36K to start when it comes out later this year.

Not sure how you feel about the imports. A Genesis Sedan has always intrigued me. 36K also gets you close to/in to CPO 5 series territory if you want another BMW.

I'd probably consider an SS but don't they start at 45k?

I do really like the Fusions, and even test drove one with an automatic but it was just kind of a nice car. Boring but good-looking. A V6 sport may be nice but I don't think I'd pick one over a Challenger.

What does Subaru have? I may consider a WRX unless the Legacy has a manual option...

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert


CornHolio posted:

I'd probably consider an SS but don't they start at 45k?

New, yeah, if used is on the table though lightly used 2014's are in the 36K and under range, with the 2015's being just a little over.

TKIY
Nov 6, 2012


Grimey Drawer

skipdogg posted:

Not many options with a manual transmission.

With GM off the table the SS, Impala, and the recent Buicks are off the table.
Ford doesn't have anything of note, although the new 2017 Fusion V6 Sport will be around 36K to start when it comes out later this year.

Not sure how you feel about the imports. A Genesis Sedan has always intrigued me. 36K also gets you close to/in to CPO 5 series territory if you want another BMW.

I've been in my (3.8L AWD) 2015 Genesis for just under a year. It's a stellar car and I'll vocally recommend it until you all hate me and tell me to shut up.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




skipdogg posted:

New, yeah, if used is on the table though lightly used 2014's are in the 36K and under range, with the 2015's being just a little over.

It's basically impossible to buy a manual SS though.

CornHolio posted:

Used Audi S5 - How would this be post-warranty though?
G37 Coupe - Interesting idea, maybe worth looking into
Wacky idea: Golf R (not two doors, not sure how important that is to you) - I'd honestly rather have four doors, never been a big VW guy though. Maybe worth looking into this too though.


Not sure. It isn't worth much, I think, due to the miles and some minor rust. I'm considering keeping it around as a winter beater and selling my Volvo (also not worth much)... how much would a 200k 540i/6 go for that has some rust and needs all new ball joints and bushings?

The S5 would not be as reliable as the Challenger, probably. In the same ballpark as a 135.

I would give you like a thousand bucks for your E39, maybe. Ball joints and bushings aren't cheap.

CornHolio
May 20, 2001



Toilet Rascal

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:


I would give you like a thousand bucks for your E39, maybe. Ball joints and bushings aren't cheap.

I'll keep that in mind.

I'm a ways out though, it won't be anytime in the near future unless I get a big windfall or something.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009
NOT MY MVP


I've been driving the 16 impala a lot it's very nice. I would not write it off.

It's ENOURMOUS.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

euphronius posted:

I've been driving the 16 impala a lot it's very nice. I would not write it off.

It's ENOURMOUS.

Roomy and a decent interior, yes. I've never heard anyone describe it as a particularly fun or engaging car though.

Either you want a manual or you don't. I'd rather have a 4 cyl Fusion/V6 Challenger with a manual than a V6 Fusion/V8 Challenger with an auto (yeah I know half of those don't exist), not like you're going to be able to wring all that HP out on regular streets anyway.

How about an Acura TL? It's possible to get it with V6, AWD and manual trans, it's pretty fast and also a Honda Accord.

Guinness
Sep 15, 2004



Throatwarbler posted:

How about an Acura TL? It's possible to get it with V6, AWD and manual trans, it's pretty fast and also a Honda Accord.

Interesting, I didn't know you could could get TLs with AWD and a manual trans as late as 2014. They look fairly rare, though, as there are only 15 of them listed on AutoTrader right now in the entire United States. But that'd be probably be a pretty good combo of comfy, fun, and well-built.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




Throatwarbler posted:

Roomy and a decent interior, yes. I've never heard anyone describe it as a particularly fun or engaging car though.

It's not engaging but it's quiet, comfortable and decently quick. It's a good way to eat up highway miles. I think it's significantly better than the Taurus, and on par with the Avalon.

antiga
Jan 16, 2013



The impala has noticeably more interior space than the Taurus, especially in the front seat. Unfortunately it's also noticeably pricier.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




antiga posted:

The impala has noticeably more interior space than the Taurus, especially in the front seat. Unfortunately it's also noticeably pricier.

I absolutely hate the Taurus interior. Nobody has ever managed to make a big car feel smaller inside.

I bet once you start negotiating the price difference is not that great.

antiga
Jan 16, 2013



If I remember right the impala is a four cylinder standard and the Taurus is a 6. Haven't gotten to the point of negotiating so you could be right but the difference in asking prices for a similarly equipped car is substantial.

I agree that the interior space isn't well optimized on the Taurus but I'm not the buyer. I told her to get the fusion instead but no dice, shrug.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




Yeah you do have to step up to the 2LT for the six cylinder which is about $32k nominally.

CornHolio
May 20, 2001



Toilet Rascal

Throatwarbler posted:


How about an Acura TL? It's possible to get it with V6, AWD and manual trans, it's pretty fast and also a Honda Accord.

That grill though

My dad had a TL for awhile, I think an '04, it was an incredibly nice car. He liked it a lot more than his subsequent CTS.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




That brings up the fact that you could get a used CTS-V or an ATS.

Ammanas
Jul 17, 2005

Voltes V: "Laser swooooooooord!"

Speaking of TLs im debating between an 04-08 TL vs 05-13 Lexus IS350 (not 250). The interior and engine (plus ~60hp with no mpg loss) seem superior in the Lexus but the body style is mediocre at best while I really like the clean lines in the TL.

TLs tend to be about 2k+ less than IS and seen more frequently....thoughts between the two?

I want a sporty/comfortable car, am comfortable going up to 20k, reliability/cost of ownership is big though.

Ammanas fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Feb 15, 2016

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Somewhere in there TLs were making GBS threads automatic transmissions right and left. Don't know what year that stopped.
The lexus is RWD which is considered an advantage to some.

Ammanas
Jul 17, 2005

Voltes V: "Laser swooooooooord!"

Also do you guys have opinions either way on buying from carmax?

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Ammanas posted:

Also do you guys have opinions either way on buying from carmax?

Don't buy reliable cars from carmax. Carmax cars tend to be overpriced by thousands. The only reason to buy from there is to buy an extremely unreliable car like an AMG mercedes and get an under priced warranty.

edit: Carmax or any other companies inspections or carfaxes and the like do not replace a real PPI from either an independent shop or a dealer (who is not selling you the car).

powderific
May 13, 2004



Grimey Drawer

I sold my 3 year old Subaru to Carmax and they listed it at essentially the same price I paid new. I'm totally happy with what I got for it, but I can't imagine buying anything from them. Around me even regular dealerships are usually way less expensive, and that's without haggling.

antiga
Jan 16, 2013



My research before i bought mine revealed that the 07-08 auto transmission was significantly improved. I've heard someone say 06 was OK too, but check Acurazine for yourself to be sure. Get a PPI, preferably at an Acura dealer.

Watch out for a 7 year, 105k timing belt change requirement. Costs about $800 with water pump at the dealer.

Finally, the TL is not far from an accord so I wouldn't want to pay the carmax premium since it's especially bad for older cars. You can save $2500-3000 easy on CL compared to carmax on the TL and that's before the added warranty cost.

antiga fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Feb 15, 2016

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

Ammanas posted:

Speaking of TLs im debating between an 04-08 TL vs 05-13 Lexus IS350 (not 250). The interior and engine (plus ~60hp with no mpg loss) seem superior in the Lexus but the body style is mediocre at best while I really like the clean lines in the TL.

TLs tend to be about 2k+ less than IS and seen more frequently....thoughts between the two?

I want a sporty/comfortable car, am comfortable going up to 20k, reliability/cost of ownership is big though.

The back seats of the IS are very small even compared to other cars in its class, while the TL's are large even for its (larger) class.

Ammanas
Jul 17, 2005

Voltes V: "Laser swooooooooord!"

Aware. Back seat is storage space for me, rarely have 3+

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009



Grimey Drawer

nm posted:

Somewhere in there TLs were making GBS threads automatic transmissions right and left.

If it's what I'm thinking of, it's pretty much 99-04 (and possibly a few years after) Honda/Fancy Honda Acura v6es shredding the autoboxes behind (next to) them.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


Ammanas posted:

Also do you guys have opinions either way on buying from carmax?

I know 4 or 5 people who have sold what amount to scrap-heap worthy cars to carmax for far too much cash by doing shady things to radiator caps or similar. Top off the fluids, take it through a pay-n-spray and they will pay top dollar for a Saturn with a dying automatic transmission.

Glambags
Dec 28, 2003



So my current vehicle is an 03 Saturn Vue I've had since 2009 that is pushing 160k miles and is becoming more trouble than it's worth as far as repairs go, so I'm looking at options for a used car. I've read much of the thread and based on my needs/wants/budget I think either a Prius ('05-'10?) or a Mazda3 hatch (but probably the Prius) is the way to go. I've found a number of used Priuses in my area on craigslist, and I'm wondering if I can get some feedback - do these look like good prices for the mileage/year? I'd like to get the most bang for my buck. Obviously a carfax/independent PPI/etc. would be necessary but I'd just like to know if I'm in the ballpark so I'm not wasting my time when I go to take a look/test drive:

http://binghamton.craigslist.org/ctd/5431946006.html
http://binghamton.craigslist.org/ctd/5445761920.html
http://binghamton.craigslist.org/ctd/5439472567.html
http://binghamton.craigslist.org/ctd/5437865642.html
http://binghamton.craigslist.org/ctd/5414867858.html
http://syracuse.craigslist.org/ctd/5450285743.html
http://syracuse.craigslist.org/ctd/5417824462.html

Thanks!

tater_salad
Sep 15, 2007




"The battery pack in any hybrid Toyota is warranted either for 10 years or 150,000 miles (in states with California emissions laws) or 8 years or 100,000 miles in all other states." And, he adds, "There's no pro-rating at all. The battery will be replaced at no cost if necessary during the warranty period.

Do not buy buy a Prius that is approaching this limit, a dead battery is 4500 to replace. And at that age and mileage the battery is going to pretty much be toast.

Also poo poo on a Prius gets expensive faaaast. Heater not blowing, please insert 1000 into the money hole since the electric coolant pump and heater is probably broken.
Nitrogen in the brake booster leaked past seals, insert 2000 to the money hole
Everything is specialty and at 10 years old poo poo sarts dying.

Find a nice 8-10k civic or corolla and enjoy nearly the same mileage with wayyyyy less money in repairs.

Grumpwagon
May 5, 2007
I am a giant assfuck who needs to harden the fuck up.



tater_salad posted:

"The battery pack in any hybrid Toyota is warranted either for 10 years or 150,000 miles (in states with California emissions laws) or 8 years or 100,000 miles in all other states." And, he adds, "There's no pro-rating at all. The battery will be replaced at no cost if necessary during the warranty period.

Do not buy buy a Prius that is approaching this limit, a dead battery is 4500 to replace. And at that age and mileage the battery is going to pretty much be toast.

Also poo poo on a Prius gets expensive faaaast. Heater not blowing, please insert 1000 into the money hole since the electric coolant pump and heater is probably broken.
Nitrogen in the brake booster leaked past seals, insert 2000 to the money hole
Everything is specialty and at 10 years old poo poo sarts dying.

Find a nice 8-10k civic or corolla and enjoy nearly the same mileage with wayyyyy less money in repairs.

Um, I'm not sure where you're getting your information for that, but many sources have been cited throughout the thread showing the Prius is literally the most reliable car ever made. There are aftermarket battery packs that are not nearly $4500. Not only that, but a battery at low health doesn't affect the operation of the car. Your mileage will be hurt, but it will still be close to class leading.

The Prius is not an exciting car in any way, so it gets a bad rap with car people, but if all you're looking for is the lowest total cost of ownership to get from point A to point B, it's exactly what you want. One of those cars he linked had 92k miles. That's not even close to a lot of miles for a Prius. People recommend gen 2s with 150k or more, and back that up with data.

If you're going to make an extraordinary claim like that tater, you'd better come with the data to back it up. That doesn't mean a link to a $4500 battery pack, that means longitudinal studies showing TCO over the lifetime of the car, and its competitors.

tater_salad, for the last month or so I've been beating around the bush about this, because I'm not a regular advice giver in this thread, but you came in here a month ago asking for advice, mostly ignored it, and have been giving suspect advice here ever since. I don't pretend to be a mod, but as a personal suggestion, I think you should do some more research before continuing to offer advice here.

tater_salad
Sep 15, 2007




Grumpwagon posted:

.words...

tater_salad, for the last month or so I've been beating around the bush about this, because I'm not a regular advice giver in this thread, but you came in here a month ago asking for advice, mostly ignored it, and have been giving suspect advice here ever since. I don't pretend to be a mod, but as a personal suggestion, I think you should do some more research before continuing to offer advice here.



I looked at a Prius and also looked through several prius forums and saw enough folks with issues with thr battery and thr dealer quoted battery pack as we all as others saying not to buy 10 year old priii since you then have an unremarkable car with bad gas mileage.
I know 3 people who own(ed) a Prius, one had a 600 dollar heater part +labor die with the electric coolant pump or warmer I can't remember exactly what. The other had a 3k brake booster issue. Both were dealer prices an indi shop may be less, I was not aware that 3rd parties really touched prius batteries but a lot of what I saw in my research was folks wanting to dump their 8-10 year old prius becsuse the batteries may be on the way out and usually cost as much or 1/2 the value of the vehicle. Yes it will run on Gas 100% of the time but why get a Prius that gets 35mpg. Maybe the folks I know have bad luck but my experience is at 10 years it may not be a good choice.

I didn't ignore the thread when they advised me, I took to heart the advise of why go sporty when you drive 14 miles a day and don't have time to go racing. That's why instead of a civic si or focus st or wrx I ended up with a 13 accord, and will be putting money aside for the purchase of aside fun toy in 4-5 years, I'd rather not have a daily that is a project / moded car. I test drove an si and it was fun.. really fun but I didn't fit in the coupe, and as much fun as it was in the end it wasn't practical.

I did ignore the (don't get a car becsuse yiu got free cash all of the sudden) assuming all other over estimates budgeting including increasing my car payment by $700 per month, healthy savings in 401k, retirement account and emergency funding, I still have an excess of a little over 1xxx a month which will not mean I get to toss money around. However it does mean I do get to drive something with things like a cd player, or that I can sit in without having to flop into or crawl out of.

I've given really bad advice that you've beaten around the bush on like.. tell your insurance company your car is worth more and provide proof of value of vehicles in your area from autotrader or craigslist.

Or in a high mileage vehicle look for the timing belt to replace because it's it's a good idea to do so at the cost of 800 (since at worst it will asplode your motor, and at best leave you stranded with an $800 repair bill after.

A real Doosey was finance on your own when looking at used cars since dealers can add interest points for their own profit.

tater_salad fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Feb 17, 2016

Babysitter Super Sleuth
Apr 26, 2012

THERE'S FASCISM IN MY GIANT ROBOT ANIMES


If you've seen so much posted proof of priuses being unreliable and expensive then how about you post some links to counter the literal mountain of evidence saying otherwise

Not even being a smartass, I'm about a month away from pulling the trigger on one of several used 3rd gens in my area and want to see any reasons why not to do this.

tater_salad
Sep 15, 2007




Here is a while thread where the magic number is right around 10-11 years, doesn't seem to be a mileage issue.
http://priuschat.com/threads/battery-pack-life-expectancy.132021/

You can also go to yahoo answers (blah) Wich most people also see to be at about 10 years of use

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090510110216AAH8aH2

Most of what I saw when reading is battery is going to last around 200k or 10ish years.

This is what happened to my friends car.
http://priuschat.com/threads/p1121-coolant-control-valve-replacement-with-pics.102648/

This is from our own AI stupid question thread, but also happened to someone else I know, was told that once the motor keeps running on it it will end up dying at some point

some texas redneck posted:

Yeah uh, about that... coworker's 2006 Prius just needed the brake booster replaced. And it's only a little above average mileage for its age.

$2500 later.... The original one still worked, but the motor on it would run nearly constantly.


I'm not saying that all prises have isues they may be reliable as a freight train, but when poo poo breaks it's a bit more expensive to fix.

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aldantefax
Oct 10, 2007

ALWAYS BE MECHFISHIN'

So I've been looking at the local market (Austin TX) for prices and I'm finding that dealerships are consistently marking up +20% over KBB dealership advised prices. Is this normal in other US regions? The last car I bought was from a private seller and I named the exact KBB price for the condition of the car and we were solid. The local Subaru place marked up a 2003 Forester over 20% KBB value and wouldn't budge. They have since marked it down 500 bucks cheaper, but it's still too expensive by a wide margin. If I was going to pursue the dealer route, how do I fairly bargain them down to the KBB value?

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