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Motronic
Nov 6, 2009



Grimey Drawer

zapplez posted:

The only real benefit of having AWD / 4WD is if you need to get started from a stop on unplowed/offroads. And towing.

The only time I've cared about AWD/4WD for towing was offroad. It loving blows when you go over a crest just the right way that your trailer unloads your rear wheels on a RWD vehicle.

Also, I used to plow with a 2 wheel drive dump truck (I'm not talking big truck, I'm talking about an F250). And never once got stuck. Traction is traction, and with dual rear wheels that had proper tires on them, a dump bed/cylinder and additional weight from salt and a spreader hanging off the back you have to be really oblivious to get yourself stuck.

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Wickerman
Feb 26, 2007

Boom, mothafucka!

If only Jeep could figure out their transmission "software" issues.

Guinness
Sep 15, 2004



IOwnCalculus posted:

The CR-V's AWD is laughably bad, though. If the front tires have zero traction, it just cuts all power, period. Everything on the rear portion of the CR-V drivetrain is sized so small that it can't handle 100% of the engine's power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkiv-bWbLIo

The AWD systems I have driven in snow were an early P2 V70 XC, and my Jeep Grand Cherokee with Quadradrive. Proper mechanical systems that, at least on the Jeep, can send drat near full power to any one wheel if needed.

The CRV is perhaps the best (worst) example of how useless "AWD" is on most cars and CUVs. Other brands/models aren't quite that bad but the majority are not much better than that.

Credit to Subaru for actually having a functional AWD system in most/all models, but you pay the price in efficiency/weight.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005

#JusticeForBreonnaTaylor
#BlackLivesMatter
#StillIRise
#Blessed




I did just buy an AWD vehicle but thatís mostly because one of us has a job that requires you to be on site no matter what, potentially any time of day.

JnnyThndrs
May 29, 2001

HERE ARE THE FUCKING TOWELS

IOwnCalculus posted:

Everything on the rear portion of the CR-V drivetrain is sized so small that it can't handle 100% of the engine's power.

This is most non-performance-oriented cars w/AWD except Subies, though. The CRV-type system with a computer-controller clutch unit hooked to the front of a small rear diff is quite common among AWD systems designed for occasional winter traction. Some manufacturers do it better than others though, as you found out.

And Quadra-Drive is loving amazing in both design and performance, itís a drat shame that itís not used by everybody. Just donít use the wrong oil in them though, you have to disassemble EVERYTHING and soak all 20+ clutches in friction modifier overnight to get the vehicles to stop shuddering/groaning around turns.

Something Offal
Jan 11, 2018

by FactsAreUseless


I wonder how Audi's new system (used in everything now I think) does it. Maybe a larger diff than say a CR-V?

Also note that video is 5-6 years old and I bet if it was done with a new model, Honda has fixed that problem with software/diff iterations. That doesn't excuse how much it sucked back then, however.

zapplez posted:

You got it stuck with snow tires made in the past 5 years? Or all seasons

edit: The real problem with AWD is many people think because it helps them accelerate easier, it also helps turning and braking, and then they end up dead in a ditch.

They were all-seasons admittedly, but I know they were relatively new OEM and not cheap Chinese garbage. I know AI gets turned on by snows, but it'd surprise me greatly if snow tires alone would've saved me from having to push. Can't say for sure though. These modern all-seasons had plenty of tread and you could feel that they weren't rock hard or anything.

Something Offal fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Dec 29, 2018

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005

#JusticeForBreonnaTaylor
#BlackLivesMatter
#StillIRise
#Blessed




Something Offal posted:

I wonder how Audi's new system (used in everything now I think) does it. Maybe a larger diff than say a CR-V?

Also note that video is 5-6 years old and I bet if it was done with a new model, Honda has fixed that problem with software/diff iterations. That doesn't excuse how much it sucked back then, however.


They were all-seasons admittedly, but I know they were relatively new OEM and not cheap Chinese garbage. I know AI gets turned on by snows, but it'd surprise me greatly if snow tires alone would've saved me from having to push. Can't say for sure though. These modern all-seasons had plenty of tread and you could feel that they weren't rock hard or anything.

I can - they would have performed miles better.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009



Grimey Drawer

Something Offal posted:

I know AI gets turned on by snows, but it'd surprise me greatly if snow tires alone would've saved me from having to push. Can't say for sure though.

Chances are exceptionally high they would have done just that.

Something Offal
Jan 11, 2018

by FactsAreUseless


Hmm I'm probably wrong then. If I ever own a FWD car again I'll get snow tires and try it out.

Chu020
Dec 19, 2005
Only Text

Get winter tires, AWD is not a replacement for better traction.

https://youtu.be/STaximkaQxo

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





JnnyThndrs posted:

And Quadra-Drive is loving amazing in both design and performance, itís a drat shame that itís not used by everybody. Just donít use the wrong oil in them though, you have to disassemble EVERYTHING and soak all 20+ clutches in friction modifier overnight to get the vehicles to stop shuddering/groaning around turns.

The only things about it that suck are that a) they didn't include either a true 2WD mode or a fully locked high-range mode in the transfer case, and b) that rebuild parts for the differentials don't exist. They're great in anything from onroad to mild offroading, and the only thing that beats them offroad is a proper selectable locker. After 150k+ miles, if I get one wheel fully unloaded, the clutches don't quite grip hard enough to fully lock up the axle.

Something Offal posted:

Also note that video is 5-6 years old and I bet if it was done with a new model, Honda has fixed that problem with software/diff iterations. That doesn't excuse how much it sucked back then, however.

Keep in mind that video is of the revised 2014 model year - the 2012-13 CR-V failing that very test is what prompted Honda to "reprogram" it. The current generation is a fairly significant redesign over that model so maybe they've improved things, but the point is that on the small / light end of the market, AWD is far more a marketing tool than it is an actual improvement.

The reality is that a CR-V is not likely to get into situations where it has zero front traction, so they aren't seeing owners throw a fit about it. Maybe it helps once in a rare while but again I wouldn't expect it to succeed where FWD with traction control would fail.

vincentpricesboner
Sep 3, 2006

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Something Offal posted:

I wonder how Audi's new system (used in everything now I think) does it. Maybe a larger diff than say a CR-V?

Also note that video is 5-6 years old and I bet if it was done with a new model, Honda has fixed that problem with software/diff iterations. That doesn't excuse how much it sucked back then, however.


They were all-seasons admittedly, but I know they were relatively new OEM and not cheap Chinese garbage. I know AI gets turned on by snows, but it'd surprise me greatly if snow tires alone would've saved me from having to push. Can't say for sure though. These modern all-seasons had plenty of tread and you could feel that they weren't rock hard or anything.

Not to beat a dead horse, but in some 250,000 km of winter driving, almost always with just FWD and winters, mostly with small or mid size cars. I only couldnt get through the snow once, when it was over a foot solid packed, so my road clearance couldn't hack it. Otherwise, I've never had a problem getting started to move from a stop in snow tires with just FWD.

Unless
Jul 24, 2005

I art





Hey all! Looking for a new mid-to-small sized truck or van, settling pretty hard on a Honda Ridgeline, but I havenít signed yet, would love extra opinions.

Proposed Budget: $40,000
New or Used: New
Body Style: 2 or 4 door, 6-8 foot bed.
How will you be using the car?: I do construction and repair on remote mountain sites, often on dirt roads with tight turning radii. I live in an old town with steeeep paved roads. Need to haul non-weatherproof electronics and tools daily, but lumber and metal at least once every month.
What aspects are most important to you? Reliability, fuel economy, handling, cubic-foot carry capacity.

I havenít looked into vans much, Consumer Reports is all I trust and they donít keep up. Ridgeline is at the top right now, probably with a camper shell, and the lane assist looks nice for the quarterly 3 hour drive to the nearest city, yearly cross-country trip to visit family. Iíve already skipped oooking at the Ford Transit from reliability issues Iíve seen, but I know Nissan, Mercedes, and Dodge have decent cargo vans. Whatís worth it? Any daily-use problems folks have heard or seen about the Ridgeline?

vincentpricesboner
Sep 3, 2006

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Current Gen Ridgeline or prev gen?

Either way, they are great choices. If I didn't need a full size for my side business, the Ridgeline would be my dream truck.

Toyota used to be the king of pratical and reliable trucks, but their models barely changed over 10 years. Dodge is cheap but breaks. Ford is moderate expensive and has some neat tech but their eco-boosts explode. The chevys are expensive and break.

Notice a trend here?

Buy the ridgeline if you need a truck, assuming you arent occasionally hauling cattle or whatever.

Unless
Jul 24, 2005

I art





zapplez posted:

Current Gen Ridgeline or prev gen?

Either way, they are great choices. If I didn't need a full size for my side business, the Ridgeline would be my dream truck.

Toyota used to be the king of pratical and reliable trucks, but their models barely changed over 10 years. Dodge is cheap but breaks. Ford is moderate expensive and has some neat tech but their eco-boosts explode. The chevys are expensive and break.

Notice a trend here?

Buy the ridgeline if you need a truck, assuming you arent occasionally hauling cattle or whatever.

Thanks!

Current gen, natch. I put in with the local dealer. Just gotta catch the RTL-E or Black Edition (SO EDGY) when the next right one gets allocated.

incogneato
Jun 4, 2007

Zoom! Swish! Bang!

Regarding snow tires, it's not just the tread that makes the difference. It's the material they're composed of. Snow tires are engineered to stay soft at much lower temperatures. All season tires get hard and less pliable at low temperatures, which makes it harder for them to find purchase on slick surfaces.

We drive our low powered 2WD up the mountains to sno parks in the winter with good snow tires. They made a huge difference.

Wickerman
Feb 26, 2007

Boom, mothafucka!

Are you guys/gals just keeping a second set of rims with snow tires on them or are you actually paying a shop to mount and balance them every year?

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005

#JusticeForBreonnaTaylor
#BlackLivesMatter
#StillIRise
#Blessed




Wickerman posted:

Are you guys/gals just keeping a second set of rims with snow tires on them or are you actually paying a shop to mount and balance them every year?

The first option.

vincentpricesboner
Sep 3, 2006

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Wickerman posted:

Are you guys/gals just keeping a second set of rims with snow tires on them or are you actually paying a shop to mount and balance them every year?

Buy a set of steelies to go with them. About the same cost of a shop mounting them twice.

Guinness
Sep 15, 2004



Definitely a second set of wheels for the snow tires, preferably in the smallest diameter that will clear your brake calipers and a relatively narrow width.

My summers are on 18s but my winters are on 16s.

Separate set of wheels makes changing them a 30 minute job in my own garage. Plus it makes both sets of tires last longer.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005

#JusticeForBreonnaTaylor
#BlackLivesMatter
#StillIRise
#Blessed




Guinness posted:

Definitely a second set of wheels for the snow tires, preferably in the smallest diameter that will clear your brake calipers and a relatively narrow width.

My summers are on 18s but my winters are on 16s.

Separate set of wheels makes changing them a 30 minute job in my own garage. Plus it makes both sets of tires last longer.

Duck and Cover
Apr 6, 2007


You too can enjoy lifting wheels.

Guinness
Sep 15, 2004



Duck and Cover posted:

You too can enjoy lifting wheels.

Yeah those 6 inches from the ground to the wheel hub of the jacked up corner sure is a feat of Herculean strength.

Otherwise they roll pretty nicely, considering they are wheels after all.

Duck and Cover
Apr 6, 2007


Guinness posted:

Yeah those 6 inches from the ground to the wheel hub of the jacked up corner sure is a feat of Herculean strength.

Otherwise they roll pretty nicely, considering they are wheels after all.

Hey hey we store our tires in the basement so shush it. I probably should buy wheels though.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005

#JusticeForBreonnaTaylor
#BlackLivesMatter
#StillIRise
#Blessed




You can roll the wheels in a wheel bag down the stairs if youíre so inclined

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






This winter, I had my SO help me install the wheels so she could learn how to do it. The very first thing she did was try to roll the wheel and it fell over on its face and curbed the everliving gently caress out of it.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005

#JusticeForBreonnaTaylor
#BlackLivesMatter
#StillIRise
#Blessed




KillHour posted:

This winter, I had my SO help me install the wheels so she could learn how to do it. The very first thing she did was try to roll the wheel and it fell over on its face and curbed the everliving gently caress out of it.

Ex-SO right?

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007







Inshallah

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




Unless posted:

Thanks!

Current gen, natch. I put in with the local dealer. Just gotta catch the RTL-E or Black Edition (SO EDGY) when the next right one gets allocated.

if you are doing construction and ever have to haul long stuff, the ridgeline (and all other short beds) will be a huge pain in the rear end

Father Wendigo
Sep 28, 2005
This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.



Proposed Budget: 14k
New or Used: Used/Cert.
Body Style: Compact
How will you be using the car?: Commuting
What aspects are most important to you? reliability, MPG, and cost of ownership/maintenance - in that order.

I've seen a few recent model (past three years) Kia Souls around the 11k price point, what else should I look for and avoid?

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005
NOBODY HAS SUFFERED AS MUCH AS BOOMERS AND I WILL DEFEND THEM TO MY LAST BREATH

Father Wendigo posted:

Proposed Budget: 14k
New or Used: Used/Cert.
Body Style: Compact
How will you be using the car?: Commuting
What aspects are most important to you? reliability, MPG, and cost of ownership/maintenance - in that order.

I've seen a few recent model (past three years) Kia Souls around the 11k price point, what else should I look for and avoid?

Mazda3 and Prius are the usual thread recommendations.

vincentpricesboner
Sep 3, 2006

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Father Wendigo posted:

Proposed Budget: 14k
New or Used: Used/Cert.
Body Style: Compact
How will you be using the car?: Commuting
What aspects are most important to you? reliability, MPG, and cost of ownership/maintenance - in that order.

I've seen a few recent model (past three years) Kia Souls around the 11k price point, what else should I look for and avoid?

I'm not a fan of the Soul because of the garbage trannys they had, used to drive a bunch of them that were 2011s or so, and they were very prone to premature failure. We had a fleet of 10 Souls at work and 4 of them had tranny failures before 50,000 km. Overall Kia is a pretty good brand now though...

Recommendations for the 10k or so price point

Buy the newest year car you can afford., under 75k miles, of either a

2012+ Corolla
2010+ Camry
Any civic
2012+ elantra
2012+ sonata
Any prius if you dont mind the bubble butt
2014/2015 Malibu

vincentpricesboner fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Jan 1, 2019

my morning jackass
Aug 24, 2009



Budget: 3k
Body type: midsize/SUV/light pickup
Use: commuting, probably some hauling of lumber or whatever
Important considerations: good clearance, snow reliability, easy maintenance

Iím about to move across the country to the cape breton highlands for work. My 07 legacy just blew a cylinder and has given me enough reason to let it go after many happy years of ownership. I need something reliable that can handle driving in very snowy conditions frequently. Iíll need 2 vehicles eventually but this one will just be a beater as was planned for the legacy before its demise.

I was looking at used rangers because I hear they are very reliable and could easily handle the weather of where I am moving but I would love other recommendations. I may just get the non-beater before I go and drive that down as it seems a bit more straightforward given I have less than a week to figure this out.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





I liked my Ranger a lot. It wasn't perfectly reliable - no $3k truck ever is - but it was solid enough. Parts are insanely cheap for it.

If your budget can swing it, 98+ is the last generation with better brakes and a larger cab. Assuming you want 4WD, that also rules out 4cyl trucks, so your best bet is an earlier one with a 4.0 OHV. The 3.0 is just as anemic as a 4cyl, and the 4.0 SOHC has major longevity problems with its timing chain abomination.

An Explorer should be good as well, with the giant caveat of UHaul still won't rent trailers for them.

I like my WJ Grand Cherokee a lot too, but it has been vastly more expensive to run than the Ranger was. Partly because I keep modifying it, mostly because it's a Chrysler product with a constant thirst for fluid changes and window regulators.

got fired from Snopes
Aug 27, 2014


I've had a 96 Ranger, 4wd, 4.0, Manual for a few years now.

It's been pretty reliable. Left me stranded only once due to the fuel pump inertia cutoff going bad and cutting fuel to the motor which needed replacement. Took a while to track down the problem, but once I figured it out it was a simple job and cost about $15 bucks. As others have mentioned before, ranger parts are dirt cheap.

Otherwise its really good at making fluids disappear, I end up topping off everything under the hood every couple months. But it never gives me any problems.

Terrible in snow in 2wd, but as soon as I switch to 4wd it goes through anything I've encountered.

Impossibly Perfect Sphere
Nov 6, 2002


Guinness posted:

Definitely a second set of wheels for the snow tires, preferably in the smallest diameter that will clear your brake calipers and a relatively narrow width.

My summers are on 18s but my winters are on 16s.

Separate set of wheels makes changing them a 30 minute job in my own garage. Plus it makes both sets of tires last longer.

How does that drop in size affect gear ratio and speedometer stuff?

Guinness
Sep 15, 2004



Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:

How does that drop in size affect gear ratio and speedometer stuff?

Overall tire diameter is the same, no difference

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




My overall diameter for winters on 16" vs summers on 18" is slightly smaller, which just means that the speedometer reads just a bit high and true mileage is just under odometer mileage. Not a big deal. Some German cars (naturally) have ways where you can adjust the speedometer and odometer based on wheel diameter.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009



Grimey Drawer

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

My overall diameter for winters on 16" vs summers on 18" is slightly smaller, which just means that the speedometer reads just a bit high and true mileage is just under odometer mileage. Not a big deal. Some German cars (naturally) have ways where you can adjust the speedometer and odometer based on wheel diameter.

Not at all just a German car thing. I've done this a bunch of times on various newer GM ECUs (i.e. things that you can tune with EFI Live).

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KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




VW does it through the user accesible settings in infotainment.

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