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nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

priznat posted:

In case of BMW wagon trade up: I'd want something that is fun to drive but also practical. Another RWD wagon would be ideal but BMW has lost the plot I feel. Not a fan of the E91s. I'm not opposed to going AWD either or a really nicely driving FWD. I've been burned by Audi mechanical failures in the past so they're not an option. I'm kind of interested by the look of the Kia Sportage and curious to find out how the SX drives with the turbo engine. Probably high with annoying body roll, though. Price range: $25-35k as well.

Anyway hit me up with some suggestions, keen to see what I should check out, I haven't gone car shopping in forever so I'm fairly excited.
Maybe a used CTS wagon or Acura TSX wagon if an automatic only is ok. (CTS-V wagon can be had in a stick, but not in your price).
Honestly if you want a wagon that isn't a $70 Cadillac or $100k Mercedes, there isn't much new or even newish. I have friends whould would kill for your car.
The Legacy GT was available in Canada with a stick until like 2007-2008, but it will be fairly rare. Also, the EJ25 turbo isn't without issues.
Honestly I'd keep the BMW and trade-in the Nissan. The SUV market has gotten somewhat better.

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priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Thanks! I think you guys are right, I'm going to hang on to my wagon and look at shopping the Pathfinder. Any thoughts on the 2012/2013 Kia Sorento? They seem to have nice value, decent amount of power and the one I looked at in the showroom looked well put together with a lot of room.

Oh I would love to check out a CTS or CTS-V wagon sometime, those would be fantastic :D (but expensive, something like that not for a few years at least)

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

The BMW is going to be up for a full cooling system replacement at the minimum pretty soon. It's not a ZHP or anything so I don't see any particular reason to be attached to it.

You can import a Legacy from the US with very little hassle, the original US warranty still applies too. The Legacy/Outback/Tribeca are all made in the US so there is no additional tax on them compared to an Impreza or German car. There was a period when everyone was importing Spec-Bs like crazy, I know a group buy on one toronto forum that ended up getting like 20-390 cars from a single NY Subaru dealer. Mostly high-trim stuff like 6 cylinder Outbacks and Tribecas too.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




Seafea posted:

Good point. It was night, so it'd probably be more noticable in the day. They seem to have been struck by like quarter sized pieces of hail briefly. Just dunno if a discount like that is a good deal or not since I've never bought a car before.

This is kind of an odd question, but has it been fixed or not? If it hasn't been fixed, it's quite expensive to get a PDR guy to pull all of those dents and it probably won't look quite right (but I have a collision repair background so I'm anal about poo poo like this). I'm doubting that it's been fixed at all, since if the dealer dropped a few grand in to it there's no way they'd be offering that discounting level.

The discount is fine provided you can deal with the issue. It's not as good as you think since TMV is only about 31K on the car, meaning that you should be able to negotiate to 31 without too much issue. Then you're looking at a 6K discount for the hail issue.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Seafea posted:

Good point. It was night, so it'd probably be more noticable in the day. They seem to have been struck by like quarter sized pieces of hail briefly. Just dunno if a discount like that is a good deal or not since I've never bought a car before.

A slightly used car with damage will depreciate in value very quickly. Seems like its a decent deal if you want to drive it for 15 years. If you plan to only keep it for 5 years or so, it will be very hard to sell for anything near a fair market price versus an unblemished vehicle.

Falcon2001
Oct 10, 2004

Eat your hamburgers, Apollo.

Pillbug

So, does anyone have any experience haggling around a factory-ordered car? Most of the tips I see online are 'find a car in a lot, hammer them down in price and buy it'.

Context: Got my financing in order, looking to pick up a new car. After going out and test driving a number of different ones, I'm pretty sold on the Mini Cooper S. The problem is that Mini works on the 'not much included, so there's a shitton of addons'. This doesn't make it out of my price range, but it does mean that shopping for a new one on a lot is ton more difficult than say, a Hyundai, where they only offer minimal trims and packages.

I'm vaguely confident in my negotiating skills, not in a position where I need to buy a car, and I'm happy to walk away, but it seems like doing a factory order would put me at a disadvantage when it comes to negotiations. Anyone had any experience with this?

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







On the one hand, a dealer is eager to move cars that have been sitting on his lot not selling, and that's something you can exploit especially at the end of the month to get a good deal.

On the other hand, a car which you order and then take delivery of spends no time sitting on his lot taking up space, which is a benefit to the dealer. If you show up knowing exactly what you want and hand him a printout of the car to order, he's also saving on employee time compared to a shopper who needs a couple hours of handholding.

My experience is limited but when I bought my new car, I knew exactly what I wanted and it had to be ordered. I also knew the invoice price and made an offer that gave them a few hundred bucks (seven hundred I think?) for their time, which isn't bad for maybe an hour of paperwork spread between a few dealership staffers.

The other advantage is that you can call or email several dealers and one of them is likely to take your reasonable offer. Why not? Having a small amount of money and selling you a car is better than not having that money when someone else sells you the exact same car.

So, you're not going to get a massive deal well under invoice where a dealer's trying to rid himself of a car that's been lingering in his inventory for months on end and is ready to lose money to do it. But you've still got significant negotiating power.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Throatwarbler posted:

You can import a Legacy from the US with very little hassle, the original US warranty still applies too. The Legacy/Outback/Tribeca are all made in the US so there is no additional tax on them compared to an Impreza or German car. There was a period when everyone was importing Spec-Bs like crazy, I know a group buy on one toronto forum that ended up getting like 20-390 cars from a single NY Subaru dealer. Mostly high-trim stuff like 6 cylinder Outbacks and Tribecas too.
Problem is that Canada got wagons well after the US stopped getting them. Particularly if you want a turbo and/or a stick.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
Don't touch

Seafea posted:

Good point. It was night, so it'd probably be more noticable in the day. They seem to have been struck by like quarter sized pieces of hail briefly. Just dunno if a discount like that is a good deal or not since I've never bought a car before.

You have to examine this discount properly. 33k down to 25k due to hail damage might be a terrible proposition if you know you can talk the dealer down to 28k for a mint one. Find another Acura dealer and go through the motions with them. Find out invoice price, forget about MSRP.

Falcon2001
Oct 10, 2004

Eat your hamburgers, Apollo.

Pillbug

Leperflesh posted:

<Useful Words>

Thanks! I have a secondary problem that is now becoming more of an issue.

My current car is a 2007 Nissan Maxima SL 3.5 in great condition. (The only problem with the car is that it's both too drat big and a gas guzzler as well, so I'm upgrading to something newer as I can afford it. Additionally, the loan that this is under is at a 10.7% APR, as I got it back when my credit wasn't as good.)

KBB on that car's trade in value is 14.5k, and I owe 18 on it. What's the best way to negotiate this with a dealer? Ideally I'd like to just have them soak it and pay it off and then I'd take a bit higher price on the new car, as the loan I got approved for is only at 2.7%. My worry is that somewhere in this hassle I'm going to get screwed as this ends up being a multi-part negotiation. If it gets close I can just pay it off out of pocket, but covering the whole gap plus a down payment is pretty cost-prohibitive.

Anyone handled something like that before successfully?

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.


Falcon2001 posted:

Thanks! I have a secondary problem that is now becoming more of an issue.

My current car is a 2007 Nissan Maxima SL 3.5 in great condition. (The only problem with the car is that it's both too drat big and a gas guzzler as well, so I'm upgrading to something newer as I can afford it. Additionally, the loan that this is under is at a 10.7% APR, as I got it back when my credit wasn't as good.)

KBB on that car's trade in value is 14.5k, and I owe 18 on it. What's the best way to negotiate this with a dealer? Ideally I'd like to just have them soak it and pay it off and then I'd take a bit higher price on the new car, as the loan I got approved for is only at 2.7%. My worry is that somewhere in this hassle I'm going to get screwed as this ends up being a multi-part negotiation. If it gets close I can just pay it off out of pocket, but covering the whole gap plus a down payment is pretty cost-prohibitive.

Anyone handled something like that before successfully?

When dealers see someone upside down on a loan, they get giant dollar signs in their eyes. They will be extremely willing to help you roll the extra debt into a new car loan and make it easy on you as they can. Just negotiate both parts of the deal separately, make sure you get a decent price on the new car and a fair trade in rather than letting them talk to you about monthly payments.

Are you sure that the gas savings make sense at all? Changing cars to save money on gas is almost always a losing proposition unless you have an extreme commute (50+ miles daily) or are driving a V8 or V10 SUV or truck that gets 10-13 mpg.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"



Hey guys I'm not at all a car person, I only started driving in my mid-late 20's and have an old 89 Honda Accord (given to me by my dad) that is clearly on its last legs. The prospect of having to buy a car terrifies me as I have no idea the the prices or what's a good buy.

Proposed Budget: No idea! Cheaper is better. I'd like to keep it under 10k
New or Used: You tell me
Body Style: I'd like a tiny 4-door like a Fit or something
How will you be using the car?: Driving to work like 5 min away maybe 4-5 times a month, going grocery shopping once ever other week or so, driving out to the country for hikes and nature things.
What aspects are most important to you? I want a very reliable car that will last a long time, is fuel efficient, and is small but hopefully 4 door. Hatch-back strongly preferred. The max speed it would ever need to go is like 100kph. Basically I think I want a Fit or something like it. Get a used one??

Falcon2001
Oct 10, 2004

Eat your hamburgers, Apollo.

Pillbug

Weinertron posted:

When dealers see someone upside down on a loan, they get giant dollar signs in their eyes. They will be extremely willing to help you roll the extra debt into a new car loan and make it easy on you as they can. Just negotiate both parts of the deal separately, make sure you get a decent price on the new car and a fair trade in rather than letting them talk to you about monthly payments.

Are you sure that the gas savings make sense at all? Changing cars to save money on gas is almost always a losing proposition unless you have an extreme commute (50+ miles daily) or are driving a V8 or V10 SUV or truck that gets 10-13 mpg.

Gas savings is definitely not a huge cost driver here - the biggest current problem I have is actually the size of the car, but additionally I'm just looking for something new. I'd also like to just use less gas from an ideological stance.

to clarify this a bit: I live in Seattle and driving a big Sedan with a terrible turning radius around has been something of a constant irritation the whole time I've owned the car.

Falcon2001 fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Sep 13, 2012

reflex
Aug 9, 2009

I'd rather laugh with the mudders than cry with the saints. The mudders are much more fun. Hoorah.


Baronjutter posted:

Hey guys I'm not at all a car person, I only started driving in my mid-late 20's and have an old 89 Honda Accord (given to me by my dad) that is clearly on its last legs. The prospect of having to buy a car terrifies me as I have no idea the the prices or what's a good buy.

Proposed Budget: No idea! Cheaper is better. I'd like to keep it under 10k
New or Used: You tell me
Body Style: I'd like a tiny 4-door like a Fit or something
How will you be using the car?: Driving to work like 5 min away maybe 4-5 times a month, going grocery shopping once ever other week or so, driving out to the country for hikes and nature things.
What aspects are most important to you? I want a very reliable car that will last a long time, is fuel efficient, and is small but hopefully 4 door. Hatch-back strongly preferred. The max speed it would ever need to go is like 100kph. Basically I think I want a Fit or something like it. Get a used one??

I bought a used Fit a month ago, privately. 2007 Sport with 98,000km on it. It needed new brake pads but I gladly bought the car knowing that. I always refuel when I hit half empty, which is 200-250km city driving in a week. Highly recommended.

Test drive as many cars in that class as you can (Yaris, Versa, Accent, maybe even a Civic). I read on Edmunds that Aveos are total crap so I didn't even look into them.

Thing rips on the highway too. Getting up to 130km/hour is no biggie with just myself driving (175lbs).

some lucid delights
Sep 9, 2007


Hi all, I recently passed my driving test in the UK and am thinking about buying my first car. It's a bit overwhelming though and I'm a bit worried about being ripped off or finding myself with something unreliable and would appreciate it if you could point me to a few models

Proposed Budget: up to 700
New or Used: Used
Body Style: small car/compact car hatchback
How will you be using the car?: run around car, going to university (~80 miles) with all my belongings for example
What aspects are most important to you?: definitely reliability and low maintenance costs, low insurance costs but I am earning a salary so will be able to keep a car running

I hope that's ok, I looked through some of the recent pages and couldn't find anything similar to this. Thanks guys.

TotallyUnoriginal
Oct 15, 2004

Damnit bob

I don't know if this is the right place to ask but here goes!

My dad is listed as the owner of my car but I have the title in my possession. The reason this happened is because his credit gave me a great interest rate on financing. The car has been paid off for a few years now and I want to trade it in for a new car. How do I go about giving the dealership possession of the car? Does my dad have to be present or can he just sign off on the title and transfer it to the buyer?

ifuckedjesus
Sep 5, 2002
filez filez filez filez filez filez filez filez filez

TotallyUnoriginal posted:

I don't know if this is the right place to ask but here goes!

My dad is listed as the owner of my car but I have the title in my possession. The reason this happened is because his credit gave me a great interest rate on financing. The car has been paid off for a few years now and I want to trade it in for a new car. How do I go about giving the dealership possession of the car? Does my dad have to be present or can he just sign off on the title and transfer it to the buyer?

Depends on the state. In Ohio the back of the title has a spot where the seller signs & a notary witnesses. When that is complete the title is "open" and if anyone takes it to the BMV after filling in the buyer portion they can register the vehicle.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







Falcon2001 posted:

Thanks! I have a secondary problem that is now becoming more of an issue.

My current car is a 2007 Nissan Maxima SL 3.5 in great condition. (The only problem with the car is that it's both too drat big and a gas guzzler as well, so I'm upgrading to something newer as I can afford it. Additionally, the loan that this is under is at a 10.7% APR, as I got it back when my credit wasn't as good.)

KBB on that car's trade in value is 14.5k, and I owe 18 on it. What's the best way to negotiate this with a dealer? Ideally I'd like to just have them soak it and pay it off and then I'd take a bit higher price on the new car, as the loan I got approved for is only at 2.7%. My worry is that somewhere in this hassle I'm going to get screwed as this ends up being a multi-part negotiation. If it gets close I can just pay it off out of pocket, but covering the whole gap plus a down payment is pretty cost-prohibitive.

Anyone handled something like that before successfully?

First: I hope you are aware you will get significantly more for the Nissan if you sell it private party, than you will as a trade-in? The dealer gives you a fraction of its sellable value because of course he wants to make money on it too.

Second, if you trade it in and roll over the remaining debt onto your next car, you are ensuring that you will be underwater on your next car for significantly longer. You must purchase gap insurance to avoid a situation where your car is totaled in an accident, but the payout still leaves you owing thousands on your car loan. The cost of the gap insurance adds to the cost of making this trade while you're still underwater.

Your best financial option is to sell your Nissan private party for what you owe on it (or more).

If that's not possible, then here is how you approach the dealer:
First, pick and negotiate the car you are purchasing. They will ask you if you have a trade-in and your answer is "possibly, but let's not discuss that right now". Be prepared to put your foot down and absolutely resist even discussing what you have to trade in, much less how much you want for it. The reason is because you want to get a good price on the car you're buying: as soon as you start adding in a trade-in price, you no longer have a straightforward apples-to-apples comparison between what they want you to pay, and what the car ought to cost you based on your research.

This is the same reason you don't negotiate payment method until the price is set. Know what you want, offer a small amount over the dealer's own invoice, and be firm on that. Walk if you don't get a price you're completely happy with. There are always more dealers, more cars, more opportunities: you have all the power, but you have to recognize that and be prepared to wield it.

Once you have price, then discuss trade-in. Know what you want for your trade-in and be prepared to insist on it. Be ready to walk if they won't give you what you want.

Once you have price and trade-in, so you have a firm dollar amount you're paying for the car minus trade, then and only then do you discuss payment options (down payment, financing, etc.) Ideally you already have an offer from your bank or credit union, so the dealer can choose to try to beat that offer or not. Once more, no matter how much time you've already spent on it and how much you are excited about your new car, do not accept a deal you're not happy with. Get up and walk out if you can't get what you want. Your social conditioning is to be nice to friendly people who have given you their time: you must fight that social conditioning and remember that this is a business transaction involving many thousands of your very own dollars. The merchant is always trying to fleece you and you must not allow him to do it, no matter how nice a guy he is.

If you realistically consider what you're going to pay for the new car over what you've already paid (and will pay if you finish paying it off) for your current car, I suggest you take that dollar amount and divide it by the current price of gas. See how many gallons of gas you have to save before it's actually worth doing this. It may well be that you'll have to drive for eight years before you even break even or something. There's nothing wrong with wanting a new car, but if the only reason is to save four dollars a tank on gas, it's almost never worth it.

Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Sep 13, 2012

Falcon2001
Oct 10, 2004

Eat your hamburgers, Apollo.

Pillbug

Leperflesh posted:

First: I hope you are aware you will get significantly more for the Nissan if you sell it private party, than you will as a trade-in? The dealer gives you a fraction of its sellable value because of course he wants to make money on it too.

Thanks for the reply - one of my reasons for going with a dealer trade in is that in WA, you don't pay sales tax on the trade-in amount, so in this case that's a good $1400. The difference between dealer rate and private party on my Nissan is 14.5 vs 16.6, so it's not a huge difference when you factor in the tax break, and private party is quite a ball of wax, from what I've heard.

Leperflesh posted:

Second, if you trade it in and roll over the remaining debt onto your next car, you are ensuring that you will be underwater on your next car for significantly longer. You must purchase gap insurance to avoid a situation where your car is totaled in an accident, but the payout still leaves you owing thousands on your car loan. The cost of the gap insurance adds to the cost of making this trade while you're still underwater.

Your best financial option is to sell your Nissan private party for what you owe on it (or more).

If that's not possible, then here is how you approach the dealer:
First, pick and negotiate the car you are purchasing. They will ask you if you have a trade-in and your answer is "possibly, but let's not discuss that right now". Be prepared to put your foot down and absolutely resist even discussing what you have to trade in, much less how much you want for it. The reason is because you want to get a good price on the car you're buying: as soon as you start adding in a trade-in price, you no longer have a straightforward apples-to-apples comparison between what they want you to pay, and what the car ought to cost you based on your research.

This is the same reason you don't negotiate payment method until the price is set. Know what you want, offer a small amount over the dealer's own invoice, and be firm on that. Walk if you don't get a price you're completely happy with. There are always more dealers, more cars, more opportunities: you have all the power, but you have to recognize that and be prepared to wield it.

Once you have price, then discuss trade-in. Know what you want for your trade-in and be prepared to insist on it. Be ready to walk if they won't give you what you want.

Once you have price and trade-in, so you have a firm dollar amount you're paying for the car minus trade, then and only then do you discuss payment options (down payment, financing, etc.) Ideally you already have an offer from your bank or credit union, so the dealer can choose to try to beat that offer or not. Once more, no matter how much time you've already spent on it and how much you are excited about your new car, do not accept a deal you're not happy with. Get up and walk out if you can't get what you want. Your social conditioning is to be nice to friendly people who have given you their time: you must fight that social conditioning and remember that this is a business transaction involving many thousands of your very own dollars. The merchant is always trying to fleece you and you must not allow him to do it, no matter how nice a guy he is.


Leperflesh posted:

If you realistically consider what you're going to pay for the new car over what you've already paid (and will pay if you finish paying it off) for your current car, I suggest you take that dollar amount and divide it by the current price of gas. See how many gallons of gas you have to save before it's actually worth doing this. It may well be that you'll have to drive for eight years before you even break even or something. There's nothing wrong with wanting a new car, but if the only reason is to save four dollars a tank on gas, it's almost never worth it.

Minor edit: It looks from my previous post that I was seriously thinking switching cars would save me gas money. Bad word choice on my part.

The gas mileage is absolutely not a financial driver for me switching. 100% not, I don't even drive a ton. I just would like to use less gas as a personal goal thing, and it's really only driving my decision between different new cars, not just the entire buying a new car thing. A lot of it comes from frustration with owning my Maxima and living in a downtown heavy city area.

That being said, I do appreciate the tips, and I understand that what I'm looking at here is something that could end up with me just getting screwed. On the other hand, I can actually probably cover some portion of the gap in my trade-in out of savings if needed as well, just figured that lumping it into the new loan was probably easier.

Falcon2001 fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Sep 13, 2012

norton I
May 1, 2008

His Imperial Majesty Emperor Norton I

Emperor of these United States

Protector of Mexico


reflex posted:

I bought a used Fit a month ago, privately. 2007 Sport with 98,000km on it. It needed new brake pads but I gladly bought the car knowing that. I always refuel when I hit half empty, which is 200-250km city driving in a week. Highly recommended.

Test drive as many cars in that class as you can (Yaris, Versa, Accent, maybe even a Civic). I read on Edmunds that Aveos are total crap so I didn't even look into them.

Thing rips on the highway too. Getting up to 130km/hour is no biggie with just myself driving (175lbs).

I bought a new Fit 2 years ago, and its been a great car. Pretty roomy for a subcompact, easy to drive around cramped areas, and gets very good gas mileage.

They're pretty expensive used, but the car is so simple there's not a lot that can go wrong. The only thing that might have any issues is the 5 speed auto, they've been selling these since 2006 or so, so no information on how well it lasts over the very long term.

RushMix
May 16, 2007


So I'm thinking that Corollas, Camrys, and Malibus are just lightly too boring, but I'm still looking for an economy car that I can maintain fairly easily. Am I barking up the right tree with this? I'm trying to spend around 8k.
http://www.cars.com/for-sale/vehicl...onal&listType=1

Oh, it has to be manual.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




Falcon2001 posted:

Thanks for the reply - one of my reasons for going with a dealer trade in is that in WA, you don't pay sales tax on the trade-in amount, so in this case that's a good $1400. The difference between dealer rate and private party on my Nissan is 14.5 vs 16.6, so it's not a huge difference when you factor in the tax break, and private party is quite a ball of wax, from what I've heard.



Minor edit: It looks from my previous post that I was seriously thinking switching cars would save me gas money. Bad word choice on my part.

The gas mileage is absolutely not a financial driver for me switching. 100% not, I don't even drive a ton. I just would like to use less gas as a personal goal thing, and it's really only driving my decision between different new cars, not just the entire buying a new car thing. A lot of it comes from frustration with owning my Maxima and living in a downtown heavy city area.

That being said, I do appreciate the tips, and I understand that what I'm looking at here is something that could end up with me just getting screwed. On the other hand, I can actually probably cover some portion of the gap in my trade-in out of savings if needed as well, just figured that lumping it into the new loan was probably easier.

Don't roll in to a new car if you live in a downtown urban area. Sell the Maxima private party and use the proceeds to buy a capable, fuel-efficient, ever so slightly used smaller car.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




RushMix posted:

So I'm thinking that Corollas, Camrys, and Malibus are just lightly too boring, but I'm still looking for an economy car that I can maintain fairly easily. Am I barking up the right tree with this? I'm trying to spend around 8k.
http://www.cars.com/for-sale/vehicl...onal&listType=1

Oh, it has to be manual.

You're barking up the wrong tree. The Lancer was pretty uncompetitive after maybe 1-2 model years, and sold mainly off the strength of the Evolution.

Again, 5-10k on an economy car? Focus Civic Corolla Protege Sentra(maybe). The Focus and the Protege are the most interesting of the bunch.

Miss Hime
Jun 14, 2008


I just wanted to give my personal experience with a Kia Picanto as someone who knows absolutely nothing about cars and lives in the UK. Had it for 5 years now from brand new and now has 65,000 miles on the clock. For two years I drove 70 miles every day (my clock was pretty much at 20,000 by the end of the first year), it got a bit of a break last year and half when I started taking the train for a while, but now I'm back doing 50 miles every day again in it. Considering my high annual mileage I've taken it to the garage only once outside of the normal servicing etc. for a check engine light and that was covered by the warranty. While it does have a very small tank, the fuel efficiency is great (I can generally go four days commuting 50 miles before needing to refill).

The comparison was my sister's Fiat Punto, which was a complete disaster and she got rid of it after only 4 years. The number of times my dad had to rescue her because of a failure with the electronics or some other poo poo. The highlight was probably when the gearbox got stuck and my dad had to drive it to the garage in 4th gear (an interesting experience when you consider we have roundabouts here).

I will definitely be buying another KIA in the near future (possibly the c'eed or the optima as we're planning on starting a family soon and need the extra space) just because the relability I've had with my car is pretty awesome. I don't know if KIA have a good reputation or not but I do recommend them to anyone I know. The local service that we have with them it always nice (free tea and biscuits always gets you brownie points though).

I did have a small question on financing. Is it generally better to trade in a used car or sell your car independently and use the money as a deposit? What gets you the best bang for buck?

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




Never talk trade-in before you negotiate the terms of the note.

You will get more money, in absolute terms, if you sell the car private party and then use the money down on your new note. However, tax on the sale may eat in to your margin. You also have to factor in your time and aggravation - trade-in is easy. So, if you get your note all set and then you say "I have a 2007 Hyundai Accent, how much will you give me in trade" and they say "four grand" when you know that private party you'll get maybe five grand tops, it may be worth it to you to take the trade in offer.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


God drat it.

Costello Jello
Oct 24, 2003

It had to start somewhere

Rhyno posted:

God drat it.



So when are the flower rims coming in?

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Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


She already asked me where to find the drat eyelashes.




I hate my life.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003



I think I'm going to try to buy this car: http://www.springbranchhonda.com/detail-2010-toyota-corolla-le-used-9188587.html

2010 Corolla, 46k miles listed at $13.2k. What should I ask for?

Oxford Comma
Jun 26, 2011
Oxford Comma: Hey guys I want a cool big dog to show off! I want it to be ~special~ like Thor but more couch potato-like because I got babbies in the house!
Everybody: GET A LAB.
Oxford Comma: OK! (gets a a pit/catahoula mix)


Rhyno posted:

She already asked me where to find the drat eyelashes.




I hate my life.

At least you're not that goon who paid $40,000+ for some lovely Honda(?) sedan a few years ago.

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert


Oxford Comma posted:

At least you're not that goon who paid $40,000+ for some lovely Honda(?) sedan a few years ago.

Pretty sure it was a Nissan Altima.

Ramrod Hotshot posted:

I think I'm going to try to buy this car: http://www.springbranchhonda.com/detail-2010-toyota-corolla-le-used-9188587.html

2010 Corolla, 46k miles listed at $13.2k. What should I ask for?


I'd start at 10,500 for that car with it's history. It's hard for me to give good advice on that car because I wouldn't want to buy it personally, but I think 10.5K would be a good starting point considering it's history. It's a former rental, and then the 2nd owner only had it 5 months and put 10,000 miles on it. Not sure whats up with that.

I can put up to 2K miles on my car a month but I have full dealer service records for it... buying an vehicle with unknown service records is a crapshoot. I would put a premium on finding a non rental CPO unit somewhere around you if you have your heart set on a Corolla.

another edit: Toyota is doing 1.9% for 60 financing on their CPO vehicles. I checked out the Katy TX Toyota dealer and they have a ton of CPO Corollas on the lot. I would go check with them.

skipdogg fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Sep 14, 2012

LuckyDaemon
Jan 14, 2006

Lower your standards.
This means dating fat girls because you can't do better.


I don't know if this is the right place for it as we're not buying a new car, but it is BFC worthy.

My husband has a 96 Neon that he uses for work. It runs great and we know the history since my mother bought it new. Last week the hood flew up when my husband was on the highway and shattered the windshield. It was probably due to a fender bender my mom was in when she owned the car.

My husband needs a car for work like yesterday, but we're debating whether to go through fixing it for ~a grand because:

1) The odometer is broken, stopped at 141286 a several years back, it's not fixable.

2) My husband is a fisheries observer and has to transport his equipment, so the car smells like rotten fish. It's upholstery and not leather, so I think this will stick. He doesn't mind it.

3) The gearshift is broken and you have to use a small object to depress it in order to shift from drive to park and stuff. My husband doesn't mind but it's another reason it can't be resold.

4) The last time we got an oil change the guy said there was a "large fluid leak" but couldn't be more specific. Since it's such an old car we don't know how mechanically sound it is. My husband regularly checks and tops off the fluids and notices that he has to add a quart of over the time between oil between changes (every 3 months), but hasn't noticed any other fluid problems.

So basically, the car can't be resold, ever, and it runs great right now but there are some potential big problems. Is it worth fixing it right now so he can work or should we start looking into buying another car?

My thinking is that if we fix the body we should fix any potential mechanical problems (like the unspecified leak). Since we know the history and my husband has developed a fond attachedness to this clunker, my husband thinks we should go ahead and fix it and then keep it. I'm hesitant about putting so much money into it and then it breaking down for some other reason down the line, resulting in a significant loss on our investment.

What would make the best financial sense? At what point is it not worth fixing a car?

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







LuckyDaemon posted:

96 Neon

My husband needs a car for work like yesterday,

You didn't say, but just a quick reminder that you can always rent a car for a little while if it means not rushing into a bad financial decision. Moving on:

quote:

1) The odometer is broken, stopped at 141286 a several years back, it's not fixable.

There is no such thing as a car problem that is "not fixable." The only question is how much it will cost. In this case, you could replace the instrument or the sender or both for probably a couple hundred bucks plus labor, tops. But now that the odo is inaccurate, it's likely not worth it.

quote:

the car smells like rotten fish

This is the real issue. I'll come back to it in a bit.

quote:

The gearshift is broken and you have to use a small object to depress it in order to shift from drive to park and stuff.

Again, this is definitely fixable, probably for pocket change. It just needs a new button thingy. By no means does this being broken render a car "not sellable."

quote:

4) The last time we got an oil change the guy said there was a "large fluid leak" but couldn't be more specific. Since it's such an old car we don't know how mechanically sound it is. My husband regularly checks and tops off the fluids and notices that he has to add a quart of over the time between oil between changes (every 3 months), but hasn't noticed any other fluid problems.

You missed a word in there somewhere but it sounds like it's leaking coolant. This could be as simple as a cracked hose (replaced in 20 minutes for a few dollars) or as bad as a blown head gasket spraying coolant everywhere (fixable in many hours for a bunch of money, oh and also maybe the engine is being damaged).

quote:

So basically, the car can't be resold, ever, and it runs great right now

It could at a minimum be sold for scrap, but anyway: a car with a fluid leak probably shouldn't be said to "run great."

quote:

My thinking is that if we fix the body we should fix any potential mechanical problems (like the unspecified leak).

What's wrong with the body?

quote:

Since we know the history and my husband has developed a fond attachedness to this clunker, my husband thinks we should go ahead and fix it and then keep it.

OK. I think the car, as it sits, cannot be sold private party. But mostly because of the fish smell. Nobody is going to buy that after test driving it, there's nothing remarkable about an old Neon to compel a purchase.

I think fixing the odo and the shifter button are fairly trivial and not expensive, and if either bother you you should go ahead and do those.

But first, find out what is leaking. You said it would cost a grand to fix: is that an estimate from a mechanic? If so, check the estimate and tell us exactly what is listed for the work. If it's just a guess on your part, it might be worth having a mechanic look it over and give you the lowdown.

I think if the car is mechanically sound (after you fix that leak!) then your options are to keep it and keep driving it, try and get something for it on a trade-in (and hope the dealer signs the paperwork before they find out how much it smells), or sell it for scrap.

Financially, fixing it is probably the best option. Yes, you could scrap it and buy another car... but it's also going to reek of fish within a year, right? Basically your husband's job involves ruining the car he drives, so any consideration of residual value is out the window. You will never get that smell out and therefore the car will never be worth more than maybe a few hundred bucks, however much you paid for it. Might as well fix the reasonably sound Neon and keep driving it. If it's at like 150k miles it's still got some life in it, eventually the engine or the auto trans will die and at that point, scrap it and get another very cheap beater because why pay more for a car that cannot be resold? If you want to replace it with a car that will last a good long while, get something for around $5k that is mechanically sound, without any concern for cosmetic damage, that still has 100k left on it.

Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Sep 14, 2012

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


Oxford Comma posted:

At least you're not that goon who paid $40,000+ for some lovely Honda(?) sedan a few years ago.

I'm not that stupid.

Also she's paying for it alone!

There is this part of it that concerns me though.

Costello Jello
Oct 24, 2003

It had to start somewhere

LuckyDaemon posted:

What would make the best financial sense? At what point is it not worth fixing a car?

Considering how averse you are to making any kinds of repairs to a car, and your husband needing to treat it like a beater anyway, I think you should just keep it, IF the costs aren't prohibitive once you've actually taken it to a shop and gotten a full tally.

If you do get a newer car, you should definitely considering get a roof rack and a cargo box on the top for your husband's equipment so the next one doesn't smell like fish. You can get really huge cargo boxes, this one pictured is just a medium size.

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Leperflesh
May 17, 2007







Rhyno posted:

I'm not that stupid.

Also she's paying for it alone!

There is this part of it that concerns me though.



Just keep reminding yourself of an Audi Quattro from Group B Rally. That's an inline five-cylinder turbocharged engine! Right?Right? :negative:

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert


I love old Dodge Neons. Keep the car, there isn't poo poo that can't be fixed on that thing for less than 300 bucks in parts. If your husband can work on cars, that thing can run forever on a few hundred bucks in parts here and there. If he's not handy, find a guy that does sidejobs for cash. Seriously those things are so cheap and easy to work on. Pretty sure I could replace the entire drive train for under 1,000 bucks and a weekend worth of time.

Maker Of Shoes
Sep 4, 2006

AWWWW YISSSSSSSSSS
DIS IS MAH JAM!!!!!!


skipdogg posted:

I love old Dodge Neons. Keep the car, there isn't poo poo that can't be fixed on that thing for less than 300 bucks in parts. If your husband can work on cars, that thing can run forever on a few hundred bucks in parts here and there. If he's not handy, find a guy that does sidejobs for cash. Seriously those things are so cheap and easy to work on. Pretty sure I could replace the entire drive train for under 1,000 bucks and a weekend worth of time.

This is the answer. About the only thing I dislike about the Neon is its poor side impact ratings but seeing as the OP of the Neon post lets cars degrade to the point of not being safe that's not a huge issue. Fix the Neon, it's cheaper than other alternatives you may think of. They are good little workhorses that will run forever.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

Leperflesh posted:

Just keep reminding yourself of an Audi Quattro from Group B Rally. That's an inline five-cylinder turbocharged engine! Right?Right? :negative:

Oh hello noted VW apologist Leperflesh. Is that a joke or do you seriously not recognize the 20v 1.8T?


Rhyno posted:

I'm not that stupid.

Also she's paying for it alone!

There is this part of it that concerns me though.


For once someone actually took my advice. :unsmith:

Remember that guy who had the thread with the thread titled "400+WHP GTI build" until AI ran him out of the forum and told him to go back to VWvortex?

Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Sep 14, 2012

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Oxford Comma
Jun 26, 2011
Oxford Comma: Hey guys I want a cool big dog to show off! I want it to be ~special~ like Thor but more couch potato-like because I got babbies in the house!
Everybody: GET A LAB.
Oxford Comma: OK! (gets a a pit/catahoula mix)


Leperflesh posted:

Just keep reminding yourself of an Audi Quattro from Group B Rally. That's an inline five-cylinder turbocharged engine! Right?Right? :negative:

Why does your house not have like 25 cars in various states of disassembly in front of it?!

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