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LorneReams
Jun 27, 2003
I'm bizarre

My uncle transports two kids that do like every sport known to man in a Sonata. There seems to be more then enough room.

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Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.


Part of the huge conflict over what makes a car suitable for new kids is how much bigger infant seats have gotten. I think this is probably a side effect of new cars having 10+ airbags, though. I'm sure many of us, myself included, were riding in the front bench seat of parents cars or pickup tracks WAY before modern safety standards would say, but it didn't matter as much because there weren't airbags to injure or kill small children in an accident.

Edit: I just remembered that modern cars won't set off the airbag if not enough weight is detected. My knowledge of car safety is about 10 years out of date, I think. My car still has a switch to turn on or off the passenger airbag, and a couple of my friends cars don't have passenger airbags at all.

Twerk from Home fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Sep 21, 2012

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007






Yup. But I think that applies equally to all classes of vehicle.

And if you're going used, yeah, a used SUV is less expensive than a new van, but you could also get a used MPV, Sienna, Odyssey, etc for similar or less. And have better fuel economy, bigger doors, the same or more cargo space, a lot less hauling capacity, no 4 wheel drive, and a gutless 4cyl engine.

I agree that one of the "SUVs" that are front-wheel drive unibody econoboxes with little more than rugged styling and a little more ground clearance to suggest SUV-like qualities are pretty comparable to a minivan in price, performance, and utility.

Jetta wagon is fine. You can get it in diesel, too. A jetta sportwagon TDI with a man-tran would be an awesome family car that would last long enough for your kids to learn to drive on it. Starts at ~$27k MSRP.

They did fix the window regulators. VW still doesn't get the best reliability ratings, but they're a lot better than they were in the bad early years of the MkIV, especially if you go with a manual transmission, and religiously use the special VW oils properly affixed with the God Emperor's purity seals and holy markings.

Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Sep 21, 2012

NOTinuyasha
Oct 17, 2006

 


The Great Twist

Rhyno posted:

Seating for TEN motherfuckers.

I own one of these, a badge-engineered Colony Park, the rear seats are crazy tight for a car so large. I guess you could theoretically get ten people in legally (provided you have the third row option) but at some point you're just stuffing human bodies in a small box. Also, I've never done three people in the front, I imagine it'd be hilarious and undrivable.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





That Sportwagen TDI is pretty neat, but also not really any bigger than a Mazda3 hatch.

I guess my real issue is that there is dick on the market in terms of wagons based on bigger sedans. There's no Passat wagon, there's no Camry wagon, there's no Mazda6 wagon, there's no Accord wagon (no that abomination that is the CrossTour does not count), there's no 5-Series wagon in the US - because they'd rather sell you the more SUV-fan-friendly Tiguan, or Highlander / Venza, or CX9, or Pilot, or X5.

I personally think the Mazda5 is a neat as hell vehicle, but I expect that the N/A 2.5L probably gets a bit strained if you fully load the car, and despite being a minivan it's small enough that it's either a four seater plus cargo, or a seven seater and a couple of school bags. No Skyactiv, no turbo, no diesel, no manual if you want something that isn't the poverty spec.

That family truckster that Rhyno posted? There is nothing on the market like it today.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


NOTinuyasha posted:

I own one of these, a badge-engineered Colony Park, the rear seats are crazy tight for a car so large. I guess you could theoretically get ten people in legally (provided you have the third row option) but at some point you're just stuffing human bodies in a small box. Also, I've never done three people in the front, I imagine it'd be hilarious and undrivable.

We had a huge one, the LTD edition or something and the cargo area had a side split so you could sit FOUR back there. We routinely had 5 or 6 adults and 4 or 5 kids in one car.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007






I wonder if it has anything to do with fuel economy standards? An SUV is a truck so it's got different CAFE standards, but a wagon is definitely part of the auto line so a big heavy wagon weighs down the fleet average economy for an automaker?

Because one thing about those huge wagons, they got lovely mileage.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Probably part of it, but some of the guidelines are wonky - the PT Cruiser was considered a truck for some purposes. I don't know that the current crop of crossovers can really be counted as trucks.

Shyfted One
May 9, 2008


skipdogg posted:

Putting myself in your shoes...

Thanks a lot for the help. I ended getting a Ford Edge. I'll be picking it up Tuesday.

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert


Shyfted One posted:

Thanks a lot for the help. I ended getting a Ford Edge. I'll be picking it up Tuesday.

Neat! What did you compare it to? What made you buy it? (just curious)

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
Don't touch

sean10mm posted:

So far the main candidates seem to be, in rough order of guessed at suitability:

BMW 335i xDrive
Infiniti G37x
Mercedes-Benz C350 4Motion

The Audi A5 and TTS look like they're too slow and the S5 and TTRS break the budget. Acura and Lexus don't offer anything like what I'm looking for. I've heard the Cadillac CTS is a good car and they do offer AWD but the looks really put me off.

Does that pretty much do it? Are there any pros or cons that aren't obvious from the spec sheets before I start test driving? Are there any major differences in the real-world usefulness of the different manufacturers' AWD systems?

The 335 is the top performer and the most expensive. It is the least reliable, but within the warranty it'll be fine. I think BMW's xDrive is pretty mediocre and lots of people don't like to see it on the car at resale time. The G37 Sedan is more reliable, slightly less quick and significantly cheaper. It's a heavier Z with AWD and four proper seats. The Altessa AWD it uses is solid, mostly the G just drives like a RWD car, unless you are launching or in bad weather. I have only test driven the C350 (owned a 335 and a G) and the Merc feels like a really nice car for an older guy, but didnt really wow me the way the 335 and G do with regard to performance. The CTS is not in the same ballpark performance wise at all (unless you get the crazy one, V or whatever). It also has polarizing looks, as you note.

If you can afford an S5, that car is the winner of the three in my books. The A5 is junk (relatively), the S5 is loving awesome. You can't get a new S5 for 50k where I live though.

Saltin fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Sep 23, 2012

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




IOwnCalculus posted:

That Sportwagen TDI is pretty neat, but also not really any bigger than a Mazda3 hatch.

I guess my real issue is that there is dick on the market in terms of wagons based on bigger sedans. There's no Passat wagon, there's no Camry wagon, there's no Mazda6 wagon, there's no Accord wagon (no that abomination that is the CrossTour does not count), there's no 5-Series wagon in the US - because they'd rather sell you the more SUV-fan-friendly Tiguan, or Highlander / Venza, or CX9, or Pilot, or X5.

The Sportwagen is actually quite close in size to the last Passat wagon in terms of useable space, which is kind of why the Passat wagon got killed. The Tiguan is quite a bit smaller than the Sportwagen.

But yeah, I agree with you that there's a gap in the EPA Midsize/Large category for wagons.

Splizwarf
Jun 15, 2007
It's like there's a soup can in front of me!

IOwnCalculus posted:

That family truckster that Rhyno posted? There is nothing on the market like it today.

I'd consider the Flex to be the successor. It's too low and too long for a proper SUV and does seat 10. It'd look more like a big station wagon if it wasn't rolling on 22s stock.

Weinertron posted:

Edit: I just remembered that modern cars won't set off the airbag if not enough weight is detected.

It's often an absurdly small amount of weight that activates it, though, a lot less than a child seat + child. For example, apparently the BRZ will bitch about the passenger's seatbelt if there's even a couple of books on the seat.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




My 3.6 lb Lenovo laptop is evidently heavy enough to set off the seatbelt warning on a Jetta.

I LIKE COOKIE
Dec 12, 2010



Proposed Budget: >15, I have 9 saved up so far (make 650 a week right now with 0 expenses)
New or Used: Used
Body Style: sedan/4door manual
How will you be using the car?: daily driver with long commute. I drive ~500 miles a week.


I currently drive a 2001 accord, and am so bored of it. It's great for my long commute (40 miles each way, 4 days a week) but I want a more exciting car.

I've fallen in love with the 2000-2002 Audi s4.I love everything about it. The twin turbos, the classy/sleeper look, and the mod-ability of it. Maybe its because my parents had one when i was young. This is the car I want!

They seem to run around 6-10k depending on the condition and mods. All over 100k miles.


First of all, Can I afford this car? The maintenance is what scares me, especially on a 100k+ miles German car.
Do I need custom tools to work on it? I have little to no experience with working on cars.

So am I stupid for wanting this car? If so, what should I get?

Also this may matter, I'm 19.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




don't buy that car

edit: the 2.7tt in that car is a lovely engine for 30,000 miles. Then, due to an oil starvation issue, one of the K03s will eat itself, meaning that you have to replace it. The turbos are mashed up against the firewall, and you have to drop the engine to get to them. While you're in there, you might as well replace both of them because the other one is a ticking time bomb as well. This service costs an incredible amount of money, and it's not a question of if, it's a question of when.

The S4 is a beautiful car. It's also from the least reliable era in Audi's checkered history. It is also incredibly fuel inefficient - 22 MPG highway. To fuel the Audi, you will be paying for 91 gallons of fuel per month, at approximately $4/gal for 93. That's $364 in fuel ALONE, ignoring any maintenance costs, which will be astronomical.

You are 19 years old. You have The Perfect Car for a 19 year old. Buy a nice model of a 2.7 S4 and put it on your desk.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Sep 24, 2012

reflex
Aug 9, 2009

I'd rather laugh with the mudders than cry with the saints. The mudders are much more fun. Hoorah.


How can you have 0 expenses if you presumably have to pay for insurance and gas? How do you have 0 expenses when you're 19 (cell phone, clothes, probably beer money)? I would figure out your finances first. Are you going to school/do you want to go to school? Might want to pay for those loans first.

Guinness
Sep 15, 2004



I LIKE COOKIE posted:

make 650 a week right now...
I've fallen in love with the 2000-2002 Audi s4....
The twin turbos... the mod-ability of it...
All over 100k miles...
The maintenance is what scares me...
I have little to no experience with working on cars...
I'm 19.

No, you can't afford to keep a 10+ year old S4 on the road.

Keep driving that dependable Accord until you have a good paying job and are out on your own with steady finances before you start literally lighting money on fire trying to DD a notoriously unreliable/expensive 10+ year old German super-sedan without any mechanical experience. And once that happens you'll probably realize how bad of an idea that is.

Guinness fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Sep 24, 2012

reflex
Aug 9, 2009

I'd rather laugh with the mudders than cry with the saints. The mudders are much more fun. Hoorah.


Also don't go into debt for a car when you're 19. Jesus gently caress. You should be socking money away, not having negative amounts of it.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




Oh also in general, Do not buy a modded car unless you personally know the party who did the modding and know exactly what was installed. Do not buy a car with electronic or engine mods as a daily driver.

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.


I LIKE COOKIE posted:

Proposed Budget: >15, I have 9 saved up so far (make 650 a week right now with 0 expenses)
New or Used: Used
Body Style: sedan/4door manual
How will you be using the car?: daily driver with long commute. I drive ~500 miles a week.

I currently drive a 2001 accord, and am so bored of it. It's great for my long commute (40 miles each way, 4 days a week) but I want a more exciting car.

So am I stupid for wanting this car? If so, what should I get?

Also this may matter, I'm 19.

So when I was 19 and bored of my perfectly valid FWD econobox, I swapped it for a beater Miata and everything was great. I don't think there is any fun car that is cheaper to drive than a Miata. You could pick up a Mustang or something, but you'll get eaten alive on gas and the 4.6 Mod motor wasn't all that excellent.

I can't think of any fast 4 door sedans anywhere near your price range and suitable for your 2000 miles per month commute. Maybe look at a 4th generation Camaro? The LS1 is shockingly good on highway fuel economy and the thing will have lots of torque.

Twerk from Home fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Sep 24, 2012

Splizwarf
Jun 15, 2007
It's like there's a soup can in front of me!

I LIKE COOKIE posted:

I've fallen in love with the 2000-2002 Audi s4.I love everything about it. The twin turbos, the classy/sleeper look, and the mod-ability of it. Maybe its because my parents had one when i was young. This is the car I want!

They seem to run around 6-10k depending on the condition and mods. All over 100k miles.


First of all, Can I afford this car? The maintenance is what scares me, especially on a 100k+ miles German car.
Do I need custom tools to work on it? I have little to no experience with working on cars.

So am I stupid for wanting this car? If so, what should I get?

Also this may matter, I'm 19.

Don't buy an S4. From AI's Horrible Mechanical Failures thread:

Fucknag posted:



It's the 4.2L V8 out of an Audi S4. Wanna know the best part? That's the REAR of the motor. That's the end that faces the firewall. God help you if you ever need to replace a tensioner.

Superior German engineering, indeed.

thecobra posted:

Posted this picture on my friend's Facebook. He just bought one in the spring. His response:

"Yeah I recognize it, that's the exact picture I use when people ask me about a timing chain service on my car. 3000 in parts plus you have to pull the engine."

I think you should pass on that one.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
Don't touch

I LIKE COOKIE posted:



I've fallen in love with the 2000-2002 Audi s4.I love everything about it. The twin turbos, the classy/sleeper look, and the mod-ability of it. Maybe its because my parents had one when i was young. This is the car I want!

They seem to run around 6-10k depending on the condition and mods. All over 100k miles.


You can't afford to run that car. It will require thousands in maintenance each year. God help you if the turbo goes. Don't buy it.

I LIKE COOKIE
Dec 12, 2010



ugh you guys talked me out of it Guess I'll just keep my accord and put 5k into a Roth IRA or something. Thanks for the honest advice.

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.


I LIKE COOKIE posted:

ugh you guys talked me out of it Guess I'll just keep my accord and put 5k into a Roth IRA or something. Thanks for the honest advice.

That's the BFC solution, but I'm going to play devils advocate and say there are fun cheap cars. You spend a ton of time in your car and seem to have some disposable income, and sound like you're interested in learning to work on cars. If your drive isn't 100% straight highway and you don't need more than 2 seats or a real roof, you might look at Miatas. If your drive is all highway, take a peek at 4th generation Camaros and Firebirds. I'm sure we can come up with some other fun cars suitable for a 19 year old commuting 25,000 miles annually.

Edit: Also, used Honda prices are massively inflated so you should be able to do an even trade or even pocket a little cash if you find a good buyer and a good deal. There's no reason you can't have a car you're really excited about, it's just that getting THAT S4 would be as financially sound as setting your Accord on fire.

Twerk from Home fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Sep 24, 2012

Splizwarf
Jun 15, 2007
It's like there's a soup can in front of me!

I want to clarify that I don't recommend against getting a car, just that car.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




There's nothing wrong with something fun, but if you're relying on it to go 25k miles a year to your job, you should make sure that whatever fun thing you get is reliable.

The S4 is like the 180 degree opposite of reliable.

I LIKE COOKIE
Dec 12, 2010



Alright well maybe I should elaborate some more then. I live in Denver and plan on spending a lot of time in the mountains this winter, so AWD would be nice That's one of the reason's I was so attracted to the S4.

Decent gas Mileage is a plus considering my commute. 4 doors would be nice but I could deal with a 4 seater 2 door.

mod-able would be fun too.

I'll look more into the Miata, but I'm not a fan of the 4th gen Camero or Firebird.

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.


I LIKE COOKIE posted:

Alright well maybe I should elaborate some more then. I live in Denver and plan on spending a lot of time in the mountains this winter, so AWD would be nice That's one of the reason's I was so attracted to the S4.

Get a Subaru Impreza WRX. Budget for terrible gas mileage. Enjoy your fun-rear end car in the snow. Done.

Edit: Miatas are excellent at many things, but serious snow is not one of them. I'm sure you could man up with snow tires, but you live in a cold enough place that it wouldn't be ideal.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




WRX is a great choice.

Keep in mind it's tough (impossible) to get AWD and Fun and Good Gas Mileage and Reliable but if you pick maybe 2, 2.5 of them you're good to go.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

Splizwarf posted:

Don't buy an S4. From AI's Horrible Mechanical Failures thread:



I think you should pass on that one.

OK but that's not the one he's talking about though, the old ones like the others have mentioned is a V6.

Maybe he thinks fixing cars is fun? Learning how to fix cars can be a fun and valuable experience.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




Nobody should ever learn to fix cars on anything with a VAG 2.7TT.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

Well look, didn't forums regular Muffinpox have several years of successful B5 S4 ownership? I wonder if you could dig up some posts of his and get a better idea of how things are.

Saltin
Aug 20, 2003
Don't touch

Even if you leave the engine out of it, the control arms, tie rods, ABS system, hell most of the electrical system period, are all weak spots on the B5.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Throatwarbler posted:

Well look, didn't forums regular Muffinpox have several years of successful B5 S4 ownership? I wonder if you could dig up some posts of his and get a better idea of how things are.

Does successful involve crying and not being able to find replacement parts?

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




The only thing that's worse is the Allroad. Air suspension

DeathSandwich
Apr 24, 2008

I fucking hate puzzles.


I'm starting to put some feelers out on buying a new car, perhaps some of you goons can help me out. I'm still between 2 months and a year from actually committing to anything. When I do go in, I'm going to have a relatively large down payment ($10000 or so) ready on it.

Full story: I currently drive a '95 Toyota Camry that I've had for the last 9 years. I payed 2000 for it originally, it's got 160k miles on it now and at least until recently had been about as faithful of a car as I could hope for. Here recently though it's starting to hit some serious problems, I've spent about 1800 on it in the last year between replacing head gaskets and some other smaller miscellaneous problems, and I'm starting to think it's time to put the thing to bed.

So I've been looking at potential candidates for buying a brand new car, as I can afford it and prefer the warranties available for a new vehicle. I'm looking to stay in the same size category as my Camry or A bit Smaller. I'm single with no kids so I don't need a van/suv to tow a ton of people around. I'm hoping to find something that gets great gas milage (think 36+ highway) but still feels sporty and responsive. I'm a taller guy (6ft 2in) so I would want something that I can fit in: My brother has a Toyota Yaris and I hate it because I can only barely get my legs underneath the wheel while my head is banging against the roof.

The first vehicle I looked at was a Mazda 3. I really dug the aesthetics of it and felt like it was a good combination of fuel economy and good responsiveness and sporty handling. I got turned off by my local dealer being a colossal loving shark trying to get me in the building and signing papers before I even looked at the cars on the lot. Their financing was also total poo poo even what would be my large initial down payment.

On a lark, I popped over to the Toyota and Ford Dealership and looked around. I sat down in a Prius and quite liked the feel and overall look of it. The one thing I'm not super hot about is from reading online, it's apparently kind of sluggish and uninteresting to drive. I like the Toyota dealership a lot better than the Mazda one, no pressure and the sales guy stuck around and answered questions even though he knew I wasn't looking to buy right now. I will say they get bonus points because their financing at least at the time was very good. For the prius 3, which is like $5000 more expensive than the Mazda I was looking at, I would actually pay like $130 less per month than the Mazda3 for a 60 month lease.

Eventually down the line, I'm also going to be checking out a few others too. On my short list right now is a Ford Focus, A Chevy Cruze, A Hyundai Elantra, and a Subaru Impreza. The Impreza is one I really want to try out, because all wheel drive would be nice for the winter, but I don't have a local dealer and I'd get annoyed if I have to drive an hour and a half in order to get the thing warranty service. The Focus I'm kind of leery on because I'm not sure how well the fancy dash electronics/infotainment poo poo will hold up to time and temperature in the long haul. I fully realize these are all basically boring people cars, but there's got to some goons around that could help me out one way or another. In any case, best case I am able to hold out a full year and I get a cheap '13 year model when they start pushing out the '14s.

DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Sep 25, 2012

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




Don't lease for 60mo.

If you can put ten grand down, don't do a 60 month loan, either. You can do a shorter term loan.

If you're gonna drive it to death, buying outright is a better call than a lease.

You can get a Focus without all the fancy infotainment systems.

Why don't you drive the Prius and find out if you can live with how it drives?

Thwomp
Apr 9, 2003

BA-DUHHH



Grimey Drawer


So you're in the market for a compact. It's a high volume segment and everything brings a little something different to table.

Major Players
Civic - it's a Honda and is generally generic. It'll have a price premium because of the H on the front.
Corolla - If you want another bullet proof Toyota, you could always go for the Corolla. Again, it's pretty generic but a redesign is in the near future. Could be a possibility if you are leaning more towards buying a year from now.
Focus - Focus is big on style, sportiness (doesn't match the 3 though), and technology. If you aren't a big fan of Sync/all its buttons, maybe not worth it then.
Cruze - Cruze is a bit of GM's version of the generic-ness of the Honda/Toyotas. Offers a bit more "comfort" (car speak for it feels good to drive, not necessarily sporty) than everything else.

Other Contenders
Elantra - Hyundai is big on value so you'll get a lot for your money. Not really sporty but excellent warranty and theoretical gas mileage.
Dart - Brand new model from Fiat/Chrysler. Has really sharp looks and offers a lot of options for tech or sportiness.
Mazda 3 - Offers superior driving/handling/sportiness. Can feel kinda cramped though.
Jetta - Really depends how you feel about owning a VW. Some people love it, others won't go near 'em.
Sentra - Nissan is refreshing the Sentra in a few months so it may be worth a look.

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KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010




The current Civic isn't really worth buying, in my opinion, when you can buy the Fit.

Edit: I'd roll the Prius C in to the mix too.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Sep 25, 2012

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