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tkNukem
Feb 12, 2005



Splizwarf posted:

This is a funny discussion because I never felt bad about paying ~$1.25 to get somewhere on the PA Turnpike but since I moved to just south of DC it takes twenty-five loving dollars to drive back to Philly on I-95 (180 miles). I know there's workarounds for some (probably all) of those tolls but I've taken most of them and they universally suck a big fat dick. A special gently caress-you goes out to Delaware on this one, 95 is in Delaware for what, 13 miles? And it costs five bucks? What does it cost to cross PA on the Turnpike now (at least 100 miles longer than my trip), like $18?



I feel ya on the Delaware hate. You can easily get around their toll and lose only a few minutes of time (or save, depending on how backed up the toll traffic is). When going northbound, take exit 109/MD-279 E, keep going 2 or so miles and make a right onto DE-896 and a right again to stay on 896 until you meet up with I-95. Obviously, it's the reverse when you're coming south from Philly.


Slightly more related to the thread and had you known this a few months ago... you could've driven past the Newark, DE Chrysler plant being demolished.
http://www.udel.edu/scitechsite/aerial.html

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i own every Bionicle
Oct 22, 2005

cstm ttle? kthxbye


Sponge! posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v36MCcRPRTc

That's the powerstroke issue at least.

loving awesome.

Motronic posted:

Lightning: inadequate spark plug thread depth. They would blow out (never addressed). Intercooler issues (that one was addressed via recall), and piston slap (never addressed).

6.0L PowerStroke (all of them, but especially 03-04): FICM dies, constantly. This is the fuel injection control module, which is right on top of the motor. It gets hot and the solder joints break/discreet components smoke. You end up with a no start condition. Also, the EGR cooler rots out, and you end up with black coolant. The EGR cooler and oil cooler need to be changed as a unit. This is pretty much expected at about 100k miles or so. It costs you about $3k in parts to replace it all with factory parts, although a lot of people just block the EGR and cooler and there are several places that reman the boards in the FICMs.

Cool, thanks for that.

Seizure Meat
Jul 23, 2008

by Smythe


Paul Boz_ posted:

Please. Look at the vehicle that each manufacturer is putting out right now and tell me that Ford's quality and attractive vehicles have nothing at all to do with their current success. GM had the misfortune of selling poo poo vehicles and Chrysler hosed themselves on the Daimler deal.

No, it's true. Ford dodged the bullet by like 6 months by leveraging everything they had, with Chrysler and GM set to revamp a bit later. That was a smart move on Fords part, but it wasn't because they could see the economic collapse coming, it was because they were actually the worse off of the big 3. In the early to mid 00's, GM was still numero uno with the SUV sales, and Chrysler was fresh off the successful 90's with things like the 300C and Charger on the slate. Mercedes then raped Chrysler of money, Katrina destroyed SUV sales, and all three were in trouble.

Auto design takes time, and what you see rolling out of GM and Chrysler now was in the pipeline years ago, for the most part. Ford really did get lucky. They were 6 months ahead of a product line revamp, and then a disaster happened. Timing is everything.

e- remember the Ford Five Hundred? The Freestyle? Yeah.

Seizure Meat fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Jul 7, 2011

Shroomie
Jul 31, 2008



Motronic posted:

Lightning: inadequate spark plug thread depth. They would blow out (never addressed).

This isn't just limited to Lightnings, either. My mothers '00 F150 blew two out in a matter of months, and a friends Mustang has blown one out.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

Shroomie posted:

This isn't just limited to Lightnings, either. My mothers '00 F150 blew two out in a matter of months, and a friends Mustang has blown one out.

True, it was just worse on the Lightnings. The other thing that definitely wasn't limited to them is the piston slap. My 4.6l '97 pickup has had it (mostly when cold) for a good 150,000 of its 220,000 miles.

You can find problems like this with any car company. But Ford consistently does this crap on "special" models that people are obviously paying a premium for, and then doesn't stand behind them.

The Scientist
Nov 6, 2009



Ramrod XTreme

What did Katrina do to SUV sales?

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

The Scientist posted:

What did Katrina do to SUV sales?

The average US gasoline price was $2.50 the day before Katrina. In the following weeks, prices were as high as $6/gal in places like Georgia. The prices never really went all the way back down again.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


The Scientist posted:

What did Katrina do to SUV sales?
Surprisingly, neither 1985's Walking On Sunshine, nor their 1990s Eurovision performance showed any impact.

However, you can see a sharp rise beginning in 1992 to coincide with Whitney Houston's I will always love you, the same song's performance by Dolly Parton in The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas having turned a downward trend into a surprise upward jump in 1982.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Grimey Drawer

Paul Boz_ posted:

Please. Look at the vehicle that each manufacturer is putting out right now and tell me that Ford's quality and attractive vehicles have nothing at all to do with their current success. GM had the misfortune of selling poo poo vehicles and Chrysler hosed themselves on the Daimler deal.
And the only reason they could fund those vehciles was the loans they secured way back when (2006). Go look at what ford was making in 2006. They were still making the old taurus back then.

Friar Zucchini
Aug 6, 2010



The Scientist posted:

This looks pretty drat treacherous. Incredibly overgrown weeds engulfing railroad track.
hah that's nothing, there's a set of tracks near where I used to live that's got several trees fallen over on them, it's been like that for several yea








Jesusfuckingchrist that seems somewhat unsafe.

ApathyGifted
Aug 30, 2004
Tomorrow?

VikingSkull posted:

remember the Ford Five Hundred? The Freestyle? Yeah.

Still exists, as the Taurus. (They cancelled the Taurus, then just rebadged the 500 since it filled the same niche and had better brand recognition.)

The Freestyle was rebadged as the Taurus X (The station wagon version), but that was discontinued in '09.

So basically, those cars weren't really failures, they were just rebadged for better brand recognition when Ford consolidated models to stop competing with itself.

Edit: The Taurus is still sold as the Five Hundred outside of the U.S. and Canada.

Seizure Meat
Jul 23, 2008

by Smythe


ApathyGifted posted:

Still exists, as the Taurus. (They cancelled the Taurus, then just rebadged the 500 since it filled the same niche and had better brand recognition.)

The Freestyle was rebadged as the Taurus X (The station wagon version), but that was discontinued in '09.

So basically, those cars weren't really failures, they were just rebadged for better brand recognition when Ford consolidated models to stop competing with itself.

Edit: The Taurus is still sold as the Five Hundred outside of the U.S. and Canada.

I work for Ford, I know what happened to them, lol

Just illustrating the point that Ford had a period in the mid 00's where they really lost their way. Why was it named the Five Hundred in the first place? IT'S A TAURUS

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

Oct 3, 2016 00:06: SO I'm also in 1st year classes and it's going pretty well I think.

Dec 9, 2016 15:46: Well I just took my first law school final exam. I think I've made a huge mistake.

ApathyGifted posted:

Still exists, as the Taurus. (They cancelled the Taurus, then just rebadged the 500 since it filled the same niche and had better brand recognition.)

The Freestyle was rebadged as the Taurus X (The station wagon version), but that was discontinued in '09.

So basically, those cars weren't really failures, they were just rebadged for better brand recognition when Ford consolidated models to stop competing with itself.

Edit: The Taurus is still sold as the Five Hundred outside of the U.S. and Canada.

The Five Hundred started in 2005, the old bubble style Taurus was still available as a fleet model all they way up to 2007. When Mullaly came in in 2008 and decided to switch the names back, the Five Hundred was getting a substantial revamp at the same time anyway, and the old Taurus finally died. Compared to the Five Hundred, the (new)Taurus has a completely new engine and transmission (the old 200hp 3l V6 and CVT were both poo poo compared to the new 3.5l and 6 speed) and can correctly be called a new, better car.

JD Brickmeister
Sep 4, 2008

by Y Kant Ozma Post


Nam Taf posted:

Also, stuff *can* grow in ballast. It's not easy, but it can. Ballast will get contaminated with all kinds of poo poo.

In Italy, ballast literally gets contaminated by poo poo. On many (like easily 30-40%) trains, the toilet is a seat on top of a cylinder that narrows down and deposits *whatever* directly on the tracks. They have lots of signs reminding you not to use the facilities when you're parked in a station.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


MOTRONIC FOR MODERATOR, MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN


Grimey Drawer

JD Brickmeister posted:

In Italy

Is there anywhere in Europe where this is not the case, other than crossing the chunnel?

Sockington
Jul 26, 2003


JD Brickmeister posted:

They have lots of signs reminding you not to use the facilities when you're parked in a station.

Hahaha. Stay classy Italy.

grover
Jan 23, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







JD Brickmeister posted:

In Italy, ballast literally gets contaminated by poo poo. On many (like easily 30-40%) trains, the toilet is a seat on top of a cylinder that narrows down and deposits *whatever* directly on the tracks. They have lots of signs reminding you not to use the facilities when you're parked in a station.
It's not just an Italian thing, I've taken shits in trains like this in the US, too. No attempt to hide it, no flush lever, just a poop chute- you can look down and see the ties going past. Bizarre that it could still be legal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFqJ13_YclA#t=73s

grover fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Jul 7, 2011

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.

Grimey Drawer

Motronic posted:

Is there anywhere in Europe where this is not the case, other than crossing the chunnel?

Haven't been on a train in Sweden without a water toilet in the past 12 years or so, so yeah.

Oh, and this used to be a crankshaft for a Husaberg.

Nidhg00670000 fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Jul 7, 2011

meatpimp
May 15, 2004

Psst -- Wanna buy

EVERYWHERE
some high-quality thread's DESTROYED!



Nidhg00670000 posted:

Haven't been on a train in Sweden without a water toilet in the past 12 years or so, so yeah.

Oh, and this used to be a crankshaft for a Husaberg.


It seems to end rather abruptly.

Skyssx
Feb 2, 2001

by T. Fine


nm posted:

Ford got lucky and don't let anyone tell you different.
Ford had the "luck" of nearly going insolvent first when credit markets were still open. They mortgaged everything from factories to the blue oval (no, really) to get financing right before the bubble burst.
GM and Chrysler had the fortune to me slightly less messed up and only run out of money after the bubble burst.

I know Ford got HUGE loans while there was still any money *to* loan. I don't refuse to believe Ford was incredibly lucky, it just seems unlikely. Getting loans just before there were no loans, having a large lineup of fuel efficient cars at just the right time?

The mod engine sparkplug issue is hugely widespread. Acknowledging and repairing all of the affected heads would have ruined any company.

Geoj
May 28, 2008

BITTER POOR PERSON


^
I think its more likely Ford saw the writing on the wall and started to turn things around before poo poo hit the fan in the form of the financial crisis. The other two either pretended nothing was wrong or didn't see it coming until it was too late to do anything. Luck probably did factor in but only as far as the timing of securing private loans.

Fo3
Feb 14, 2004

RAAAAARGH!!!! GIFT CARDS ARE FUCKING RETARDED!!!!

(I need a hug)


Yeah, ford sold off AM, jag, land rover, and a lot of mazda shares before the poo poo hit the fan as well.

Also they always had decent economical cars to drop into the US market whenever they needed to, since they had ford in europe making decent cars.
Chrysler didn't have anything ready, GM just want to sell you daewoos.

Fo3 fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Jul 8, 2011

Mental Hospitality
Jan 5, 2011

This is a front row seat to the greatest show on earth.

Motronic posted:


I like Fords, and I've owned them for years. But they have a history of pulling crap like this, sticking the early model holders with a problem which they don't acknowledge, and fixing it on subsequent model years.


Or they just ignore the problem entirely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_SHO_V8_engine

bentvalves.jpg

There are 1200 failures listed on V8SHO.com, and the list hasn't been updated in a year+. Who knows how many went unreported to that site. There were 21,537 SHO's made from the 96-99 model years. Engines blew from anywhere between 20,000 miles to 170,000. *And for shits and giggles, Ford sold 68,650 2011my mustangs, could you imagine a few thousand owners with blown motors, multiplied by a few years?*

STR
May 12, 2006

I thought I was a nice jester


grover posted:

It's not just an Italian thing, I've taken shits in trains like this in the US, too. No attempt to hide it, no flush lever, just a poop chute- you can look down and see the ties going past. Bizarre that it could still be legal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFqJ13_YclA#t=73s

I was on Amtrak twice this year - the toilets drained into a tank, I believe. Definitely not onto the ground, I took a dump while the train was on an overnight layover in San Antonio and it didn't wind up on the ground - at least, when I got off the train to find food I didn't see/smell any turds.

DoomTrainPhD
Feb 12, 2009



SouthLAnd posted:

Or they just ignore the problem entirely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_SHO_V8_engine

bentvalves.jpg

There are 1200 failures listed on V8SHO.com, and the list hasn't been updated in a year+. Who knows how many went unreported to that site. There were 21,537 SHO's made from the 96-99 model years. Engines blew from anywhere between 20,000 miles to 170,000. *And for shits and giggles, Ford sold 68,650 2011my mustangs, could you imagine a few thousand owners with blown motors, multiplied by a few years?*

Technically that was a Yamaha motor, but yeah, Ford had control over it. The major failing point was the cams yeah? From what I understand, if you weld the cam sprocket to the cam, it's far FAR more stable ya?

Geoj
May 28, 2008

BITTER POOR PERSON


some texas redneck posted:

I was on Amtrak twice this year - the toilets drained into a tank, I believe. Definitely not onto the ground, I took a dump while the train was on an overnight layover in San Antonio and it didn't wind up on the ground - at least, when I got off the train to find food I didn't see/smell any turds.

The first hit if you Google "Amtrak cars retention toilets" is a railroad forum thread discussing a story that a Florida state senator was fishing in a boat under a railroad bridge when an Amtrak train crossed and someone flushed the toilet at just the right moment, resulting in the senator being coated in poo poo. The story goes that the senator made a bunch of noise and as a result Amtrak retrofitted/did away with their "heritage" cars.

There's also speculation later in the thread that western trains still discharge sewage onto the tracks because they run too long between stops to pump the holding tanks and keep the toilets running.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





ratbert90 posted:

Technically that was a Yamaha motor, but yeah, Ford had control over it. The major failing point was the cams yeah? From what I understand, if you weld the cam sprocket to the cam, it's far FAR more stable ya?

Yeah, the factory configuration is a glorified press-fit of the cam gear to the cam itself. Don't know why a bolt, a threaded hole in the cam, and a pinned cam gear like any other car wouldn't have worked.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.


IOwnCalculus posted:

Don't know why a bolt, a threaded hole in the cam, and a pinned cam gear like any other car wouldn't have worked.
Costs more.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





InitialDave posted:

Costs more.

I think the extra $5 per car can be justified by "but people won't hate us when their valves and pistons meet at 30,000 miles".

Geoj
May 28, 2008

BITTER POOR PERSON


^
But the short term savings of $5 per car (x 21,000 odd cars, and then applied further across the entire lineup) is better for upper management, because by the time the problems materialize they will have already cashed out their stock options and will be off lining their pockets further by running some other company into the ground. Its the next guy's problem when some massive reliability issue destroys the company's image.

See also; putting people with MBAs who have no knowledge about cars at all in charge of a major automaker.

Geoj fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Jul 8, 2011

Sockington
Jul 26, 2003


IOwnCalculus posted:

I think the extra $5 per car can be justified by "but people won't hate us when their valves and pistons meet at 30,000 miles".

They'll just hate Ford for taking the manual tranny out of the SHO for that poo poo V8.

rscott
Dec 10, 2009


Geoj posted:

The first hit if you Google "Amtrak cars retention toilets" is a railroad forum thread discussing a story that a Florida state senator was fishing in a boat under a railroad bridge when an Amtrak train crossed and someone flushed the toilet at just the right moment, resulting in the senator being coated in poo poo. The story goes that the senator made a bunch of noise and as a result Amtrak retrofitted/did away with their "heritage" cars.

There's also speculation later in the thread that western trains still discharge sewage onto the tracks because they run too long between stops to pump the holding tanks and keep the toilets running.

Didn't Dave Matthews do this to someone on their tour bus in Chicago or something

Vanagoon
Jan 20, 2008


Best Dead Gay Forums
on the whole Internet!

Sockington posted:

They'll just hate Ford for taking the manual tranny out of the SHO for that poo poo V8.

If we're going to hate on Ford for reliability issues it must again be mentioned that the Taurus' Automatic Transmission sucked harder than several overlapping black holes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_AXOD_transmission

Seriously the biggest piece of poo poo transmission ever.

There was a special AX4N SHO version of the autobox that got used in the V8 SHO and the Lincoln Continental that was based off the D186 (Taurus) platform and even the most strong version of this thing may as well have been made of tinfoil.

DoomTrainPhD
Feb 12, 2009



Vanagoon posted:

If we're going to hate on Ford for reliability issues it must again be mentioned that the Taurus' Automatic Transmission sucked harder than several overlapping black holes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_AXOD_transmission

Seriously the biggest piece of poo poo transmission ever.

There was a special AX4N SHO version of the autobox that got used in the V8 SHO and the Lincoln Continental that was based off the D186 (Taurus) platform and even the most strong version of this thing may as well have been made of tinfoil.

You know whats funny is I have had 3 ford cars with AXOD transmissions in them, and with regular transmission fluid changes, they can last forever.

People in general it seems like never really bother replacing anything but the oil and ignore the transmission altogether.

Hell, the last Taurus I had was at 250k miles and shifting just fine when I sold it. It was a 1996 and my dad bought it new.

Anecdotal evidence ahoy!

an AOL chatroom
Oct 3, 2002

The important thing is that you tried


rscott posted:

Didn't Dave Matthews do this to someone on their tour bus in Chicago or something

If I remember correctly, they flushed or dumped their waste chamber while going over a bridge and the piss hit a goon on a boat underneath it.

edit: http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...hreadid=1174437

Paul Boz_
Dec 21, 2003

Sin City


Mr Piston, meet Miss Valves.





vg30dett timing belt pop. Not mine.

Phy
Jun 27, 2008





Fun Shoe

Geoj posted:

The first hit if you Google "Amtrak cars retention toilets" is a railroad forum thread discussing a story that a Florida state senator was fishing in a boat under a railroad bridge when an Amtrak train crossed and someone flushed the toilet at just the right moment, resulting in the senator being coated in poo poo. The story goes that the senator made a bunch of noise and as a result Amtrak retrofitted/did away with their "heritage" cars.

There's also speculation later in the thread that western trains still discharge sewage onto the tracks because they run too long between stops to pump the holding tanks and keep the toilets running.

You could almost certainly build a Bridge-Toilet-Evacuate-Holdoff system that'd work pretty well. Have a "this is a loving bridge" broadcaster ahead of each problem bridge, and a sensor in each loco that could send a "CLOSE TOILET DUMP VALVE" signal to each car with a crapper. The problem would be, would it be cheaper than just straight-up building sewage tanks into human-carrying cars?

dissss
Nov 10, 2007

I'm a terrible forums poster with terrible opinions.

Here's a cat fucking a squid.

Fo3 posted:

Also they always had decent economical cars to drop into the US market whenever they needed to, since they had ford in europe making decent cars.
Chrysler didn't have anything ready, GM just want to sell you daewoos.

GM has European operations too making a roughly comparable range of cars to Ford.

lazer_chicken
May 14, 2009

PEW PEW ZAP ZAP


Paul Boz_ posted:

Mr Piston, meet Miss Valves.





vg30dett timing belt pop. Not mine.

This is fantastic. When I saw the first picture I thought those were valve reliefs in the piston and my first response was "where's the failure?" I'm amazed how consistent they are and that none of them punched straight through the piston.

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BeastPussy
Jul 15, 2003

im so mumped up lmao

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