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Hiowf
Jun 28, 2013

We don't do .DOC in my cave.

Logitech G9x: First "gaming" mouse I ever bought. Have been really happy with it. Can be switched between palm or claw/fingertip grip and the weight is adjustable. Needs software for configuration, but can be uninstalled afterwards as the mouse has onboard memory (hence usable in Linux). The profiles remember all settings, you can quickly switch both between profiles and DPI on the mouse. Sensor has minor hardware acceleration. Tracks and works well on all pads. The mousewheel is accurate and can be switched between geared and ungeared mode. The latter is an incredibly useful feature for looking through big documents that I miss in all other mice. No longer made, if you want one expect to pay ~200 USD. The force to press the middle mouse button is very hard on some - it's a manufacturing inconsistency. Assymetric design. Braided cord.

Razer DeathAdder 3.5G: Bought for a second PC because it was well regarded. Major disappointment for 2 reasons: I found out I prefer claw/fingertip grip over palm grip, and it requires drivers. Note that although I have the original one with a hardware "profile" button and memory, in my experience those do not work without the drivers either. Maybe the drivers clear the memory after shutdown or watever, in any case the mouse is a PITA to use in Linux because it resets to (I think) 3500 dpi mode. The Windows drivers themselves are spyware-infested, login-requiring crap adding a bunch of processes and an entire Chrome instance. You can remove most of the crap if you're OK with doing that every time the drivers update (and they do so even via Windows Update!). The mouse tracks well and works on all surfaces. Sensor has no hardware acceleration. Regular geared mousewheel. Complete misbuy from my POV, might be usable if you use a palm grip and you can live with the drivers. Price is OK. Assymetric design. Braided cord.

SteelSeries Sensei: Bought for laptop. Works well with claw/fingertip grip. Reasonably heavy. Mouse is fully configurable via a built-in CPU+RAM+LCD (hence usable in Linux), although the switch at the top only switches DPI, not profile. There's optional reasonably decent drivers if you also want to change the colors on it (LOL). I think you can even change the logo? Tracks well on all surfaces, although it makes a terrible noise on SteelSeries' own HD plastic pads. Sensor has minor hardware acceleration. Regular geared mousewheel. The sides are fairly small and if you have large hands or fingers you might accidentally hit the side buttons. Ambidextrous design. Braided cord. Quite expensive. There's a RAW version that requires the drivers which from my perspective removes one of the biggest advantages of the mouse.

Zowie FK1: Bought as replacement for the DeathAdder. Slim and long compared to the Logitech/Razer, and very very light. Made for claw/fingertip grip. Mouse is configurable via a DPI button on the underside and via pressing button combinations when plugging in. No drivers whatsoever - works perfectly in Linux. Tracks extremely smoothly and works on all surfaces, but seems very sensitive to imperfections (I've seen some "cursor creep") on hard mousepads. Non-documented possibility to change LOD. State of the art sensor with zero hardware acceleration, smoothing etc. (might be the reason for the dust sensitivity?). Regular geared mousewheel. Somewhat hard buttons with a distinctive tactile click - doesn't seem to be a problem in CS:GO and seems to help me tap a bit better. Plastic cord. Ambidextrous design. Price is OK.

From my perspective the Zowie is a cheaper, better Sensei so if I had to buy a new mouse right now, I'd get another one. Logitech has some new models with the geared/ungeared mousewheel, but none look really tempting to me.

Hiowf fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Jan 16, 2015

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Josh Lyman
May 24, 2009





Tab8715 posted:

Just tested out the following

Logitech G402 - Looks interesting but feels so light but in a cheap way? There's a click but to much give on the buttons before you actually click. I don't like the glossiness either, looks gaudy.

Steelseries Sensi - Feels solid and very click with good feedback - tactile and audible. It's meant to be ambidextrous so no curvature of the mouse, which I think is a big drawback. Great cord.

Logitech M500 - Standard mouse but an improvement on the shape of the MX518. The buttons are a little squisher than I'd like but alright all around.

Overall, I'd want a combination of the Sensi and M500. I'm thinking I am going to keep the M500 just because I can't stand the ambidextrous design of the Sensi.
Have you felt the G502?

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002




That definitely looks different but still a little strange. Let me know after a few weeks if you've ever had issues with it collecting dust on there or not. I posted some images way back in the thread about what happened to the sensor on mine when that occurs, it gets super duper inaccurate at tracking.

Chickenwalker
Apr 21, 2011

by FactsAreUseless


Whoever first started doing the claw/fingertip mouse grip I feel like had to be a complete retard. It's like the Chinese folks who stand on the seat of Western toilets.

Hiowf
Jun 28, 2013

We don't do .DOC in my cave.

Chickenwalker posted:

Whoever first started doing the claw/fingertip mouse grip I feel like had to be a complete retard. It's like the Chinese folks who stand on the seat of Western toilets.

I dunno, our fingers are much better trained for precise motor skills/movements than our arms?

Zigmidge
May 12, 2002

Exsqueeze me, why the sour face? I'm here to lemon aid you. Let's juice it.

Skuto posted:

I dunno, our fingers are much better trained for precise motor skills/movements than our arms?

Er, claw grip only works right if you use your arms otherwise you're just an office worker. You claw grip because it makes it easier to pick up the mouse whole. Palming it isn't as reliable when you gotta throw your mouse 13 inches away to headshot that scrub standing behind you.

Cathair
Jan 7, 2008


Chickenwalker posted:

Whoever first started doing the claw/fingertip mouse grip I feel like had to be a complete retard. It's like the Chinese folks who stand on the seat of Western toilets.

People develop variants of the claw/fingertip grip on their own, just because that's what feels natural to them, it's not like it's some sort of technique deliberately started by anyone. I use a sort of half-claw grip because it allows my hand to make minute adjustments while my arm makes large ones, giving me a comfortable and seamless range of motion. Smothering the whole thing in my palm makes my hand useless and my wrist mostly useless, so that I'm relying solely on my arm for everything, which is comparatively clumsy unless you're a low-sensitivity pro fps player who's specifically trained for it. It's not like this is rocket science to figure out, either- when doing any kind of small work with physical tools, most people's natural inclination is to make fine adjustments with their fingers or hand in addition to their arm, not to clench the tool in their fist like a mongoloid and try to do everything with only their arm. For some people, it makes sense to approach mouse use the same way, less like driving a mouse around and more like trying to pick up the pointer on the screen and put it where you want.

I also find it easier to get the most out of multi-button mice using a claw/fingertip grip. Since you're not holding the mouse with your entire hand, it only takes a subtle shift in grip to maintain control while reaching for buttons, while a palm grip has a harder time accessing anything that you don't already have a finger resting on.

But a lot of people like to use a palm grip, and you know what? That's fine. Whatever works for them. I'm not going to go out of my way to show my rear end on a forum because somebody is using their mouse the 'wrong' way.

I dunno, maybe you just have misconceptions about what a claw/fingertip grip actually is? You know that a 'fingertip' grip doesn't literally mean holding a mouse with only your fingertips, right?

Cathair fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Jan 17, 2015

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

I'M DISAPPOINTED THAT CORTANA WILL BE A CIRCLE AND NOT THE ACTUAL SEXY WOMAN FROM THE GAME.


Zigmidge posted:

Er, claw grip only works right if you use your arms otherwise you're just an office worker. You claw grip because it makes it easier to pick up the mouse whole. Palming it isn't as reliable when you gotta throw your mouse 13 inches away to headshot that scrub standing behind you.

I can't handle the idea of actually picking the mouse up. I adjust my sensitivity so I never need to do more than twitch my mouse an inch or two

Horizontal Tree
Dec 31, 2009


You guys must have some weenie fingers. I palm my G502 and regularly lift it to adjust. Honestly, lifting it and placing it down in a good spot is just part of low-sensitivity muscle memory imo
Most of my aiming movements are done with my arm but fine adjustments are done with wrist/fingers. No movement is 100% on either the arm or hand. Fingers do recoil control, arm does the bulk of the aiming. Wrist/fingers might be used to adjust precise crosshair location.

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
"It has gunfights and shit!"


Lipstick Apathy

Do you guys know if there's a mouse that'll track on like, absolutely everything? I use a Microsoft Wireless 1000 mouse sometimes on my bedsheet, and sometimes on a clear glass table with nothing under it. It works on both but it skips on any bed sheet wrinkles, and skips a lot on the glass especially with fast motions, so I resort to using it on my thigh.

Also, is there any bluetooth mouse that can work within a motherboard BIOS? I'd like to save a USB port by using bluetooth, but I somehow doubt even the newest BIOS will recognize that.

Sh4
Feb 8, 2009


Zero VGS posted:

Do you guys know if there's a mouse that'll track on like, absolutely everything? I use a Microsoft Wireless 1000 mouse sometimes on my bedsheet, and sometimes on a clear glass table with nothing under it. It works on both but it skips on any bed sheet wrinkles, and skips a lot on the glass especially with fast motions, so I resort to using it on my thigh.

Also, is there any bluetooth mouse that can work within a motherboard BIOS? I'd like to save a USB port by using bluetooth, but I somehow doubt even the newest BIOS will recognize that.

On glass I had the best results with bluetrack sensors, but then it depends what kind of glass. It was working on most glass desks but then I found it didn't track at all on my glass coffee table (no obvious difference)

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free


I was complaining about my old Sidewinder upthread, and I just remembered I had a $75.00 Future Shop gift card. I want to go Logitech, and I think I've narrowed it down to a choice between a G502 ($79.99 CAD) and a G402 ($49.99 CAD on sale).

What are my pros and cons, mouse thread?

JohnnyCanuck fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Jan 18, 2015

Sh4
Feb 8, 2009


G502 is a good mouse with bad drivers and terrible scroll wheel

rarbatrol
Apr 17, 2011

Hurt//maim//kill.

Sh4 posted:

G502 is a good mouse with bad drivers and terrible scroll wheel

I can't help but think that Logitech has some consistency issues with the mouse wheel on the G502. I have no issues with mine, but I see a fairly large number of reviews complaining about it.

eriddy
Jan 21, 2005

sixty nine lmao


Sh4 posted:

G502 is a good mouse with bad drivers and terrible scroll wheel

What's wrong with the drivers? What's the solution to the issue, if there is one?

isndl
May 2, 2012
I WON A CONTEST IN TG AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS CUSTOM TITLE

rarbatrol posted:

I can't help but think that Logitech has some consistency issues with the mouse wheel on the G502. I have no issues with mine, but I see a fairly large number of reviews complaining about it.

I don't know if it's consistency issues or if people just aren't used to the style of the G502's wheel. The standard scroll is wonderful for gaming with its 'heavy' indents so you get precise zooming or weapon switching, but it's absolutely terrible for trying to scroll through web pages or documents. On the other hand, the free scroll is sensitive to being accidentally touched and takes some practice to use properly. I've gotten used to toggling between the different modes as needed and controlling the free scroll, but a lot of people hate adjusting to change.

I think someone was also complaining earlier about the sound the wheel makes when free scrolling, but I don't see how that's any worse than regular scrolling or mouse clicks or keyboard clatter.

GokieKS
Dec 15, 2012

Mostly Harmless.


The fact that people think hyperscroll is something you use all the time rather than a setting you selectively switch to only when you need it pretty much cements my notion that most of the complaints are stemming from people who don't realize how it's supposed to work.

I have 2 G502s, and other than it being a bit louder than most, the mouse wheel on each works wonderfully, and it also is much less prone to having middle click result in a wheel tilt instead.

And I have no idea what the problem with drivers are. I've used them on both OS X (using app detection) and Windows (using on-board profile), and no problems with either.

everythingWasBees
Jan 9, 2013



The scroll wheel is one of my favorite parts of my 502.

Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013



Zero VGS posted:

Do you guys know if there's a mouse that'll track on like, absolutely everything? I use a Microsoft Wireless 1000 mouse sometimes on my bedsheet, and sometimes on a clear glass table with nothing under it. It works on both but it skips on any bed sheet wrinkles, and skips a lot on the glass especially with fast motions, so I resort to using it on my thigh.

Also, is there any bluetooth mouse that can work within a motherboard BIOS? I'd like to save a USB port by using bluetooth, but I somehow doubt even the newest BIOS will recognize that.

Logitech Anywhere Mouse MX works on both glass and bed sheets. It isn't Bluetooth, though.

isnoop
Jan 9, 2001

I used to be an admin,
but then I took an arrow
to the knee.


Just got myself a G700s and I'm very happy with it. It replaced my decade old MX1000 quite nicely.

Josh Lyman
May 24, 2009





GokieKS posted:

The fact that people think hyperscroll is something you use all the time rather than a setting you selectively switch to only when you need it pretty much cements my notion that most of the complaints are stemming from people who don't realize how it's supposed to work.

I have 2 G502s, and other than it being a bit louder than most, the mouse wheel on each works wonderfully, and it also is much less prone to having middle click result in a wheel tilt instead.

And I have no idea what the problem with drivers are. I've used them on both OS X (using app detection) and Windows (using on-board profile), and no problems with either.
People are dumb, blame products instead of themselves, and create a perception of defects.

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002



eriddy posted:

What's wrong with the drivers? What's the solution to the issue, if there is one?

E: Think I recall there was an issue with the mouse's calibration actually, related to Surface Tuning, and you should just not use it (leave it at default).

I believe I also heard there were issues with the Linux drivers? Might be misremembering though.

Overall the software and drivers are pretty good, I'll double check a few places and see if I can dig anything else up though.

Josh Lyman posted:

People are dumb, blame products instead of themselves, and create a perception of defects.

Nope, the scrollwheel is just awful on the G502. In freespin it has issues with reverse scrolling for no apparent reason, and in regular mode it's quite inconsistent about when it actually scrolls due to the terrible design of how it polls for inputs. This is not people "blaming products instead of themselves", jesus christ.


It may be as rarbatrol suggested and there is a quality control issue or something. But on top of the scrolling being a bit inconsistent, I personally dislike the weight of the wheel and think the MMB Click is terrible (overly stiff and hard to activate). YMMV as always, if you like it then you're welcome to it.

Gwyrgyn Blood fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Jan 19, 2015

Shogunner
Apr 29, 2010

Ready to crash and burn.
I never learn.
I'm on the rapetrain.

Chickenwalker posted:

Whoever first started doing the claw/fingertip mouse grip I feel like had to be a complete retard. It's like the Chinese folks who stand on the seat of Western toilets.

Yeah those tourists are complete loving retards. gently caress those retards and their cultural differences.

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
"It has gunfights and shit!"


Lipstick Apathy

Shogunner posted:

Yeah those tourists are complete loving retards. gently caress those retards and their cultural differences.

I'd love to see him manage a Chinese toilet.

Anyway, back to the drawing board for me: All the Logitech mice that work on glass are lefty-unfriendly, I totally forgot to take that into account.

I guess I'm relegated to Bluetooth now since I don't want to risk losing an unpairable dongle like the Microsoft mice use.

Any high-end Bluetooth glass/pants-tracking lefty-friendly mice? Sorry for all the qualifiers.

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009




Fallen Rib

Zero VGS posted:

Any high-end Bluetooth glass/pants-tracking lefty-friendly mice? Sorry for all the qualifiers.

Get a trackpad?

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
"It has gunfights and shit!"


Lipstick Apathy

nielsm posted:

Get a trackpad?

Can't game on a trackpad mang...

Seems like this is the best bet I've found yet, ambidextrous Kensington: http://www.amazon.com/Kensington-Su...h/dp/B009VDSRJ8

Trisk
Feb 12, 2005



Zero VGS posted:

I'd love to see him manage a Chinese toilet.

Yeah, this is a pretty bad analogy. Squatting is healthier colon-wise vs western toilets, but the same can't be said ergonomically of claw vs palm grip.

Josh Lyman
May 24, 2009





Gwyrgyn Blood posted:

Nope, the scrollwheel is just awful on the G502. In freespin it has issues with reverse scrolling for no apparent reason, and in regular mode it's quite inconsistent about when it actually scrolls due to the terrible design of how it polls for inputs. This is not people "blaming products instead of themselves", jesus christ.


It may be as rarbatrol suggested and there is a quality control issue or something. But on top of the scrolling being a bit inconsistent, I personally dislike the weight of the wheel and think the MMB Click is terrible (overly stiff and hard to activate). YMMV as always, if you like it then you're welcome to it.
I'll agree the weight is a little strange and it took me a while to get used to, but that's fine now.

Normal scrolling has never, ever been a problem for me.

In freescroll mode, I will periodically notice it reverse scroll 1 line, but that's always because I'm nudging the wheel with the tip of my index finger as I'm raising it back up. As mentioned earlier, you should not be using freescroll most of the time.

Anecdotally, most of the complaints seem to be people too stubborn to accept that a new mouse might be different (heavier wheel) and that you might be holding scrolling it wrong (freescroll all the time), but it could also be bad QC.

eriddy
Jan 21, 2005

sixty nine lmao


Trisk posted:

Yeah, this is a pretty bad analogy. Squatting is healthier colon-wise vs western toilets, but the same can't be said ergonomically of claw vs palm grip.

I use the squat technique with my mouse and poop in my palm

A Dirty Sock
Nov 4, 2005

Death to Legoland!

I got a Logitech 400s as a warranty replacement for a 400 that had the USB cord disconnection problem. Thing is, I absolutely wrecked the mousewheel/middle-click playing Total War (you use middle-click for map scrolling in that game). It's all janky now with squeaky sounds, mushy middle-clicks and an uncomfortable scroll that feels off-center.

The tiny mouse wheel is a problem for me, so is there a good alternative optical mouse with a sturdy mousewheel? I really like the 400s form, so should I just get another one.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

Zero VGS posted:

Can't game on a trackpad mang...

Seems like this is the best bet I've found yet, ambidextrous Kensington: http://www.amazon.com/Kensington-Su...h/dp/B009VDSRJ8
I have a Razer Orochi which I meant to get for travel purposes and it is configurable as a left handed mouse with the drivers or via your generic OS button swaps. It's up frequently as refurbished lots on Woot and that's where I got mine for like $45 and it's been great aside from some issues I have related to using a USB switch. I think it's the only Bluetooth mouse I've seen that can operate in a wired USB mode, which is pretty much the reason I got it. The buttons on these are a bit stiff and definitely louder than the Logitech mice I'm used to, but I hardly have room to complain about noise when I have a mechanical keyboard.

Chillyrabbit
Oct 24, 2012

The only sword wielding rabbit on the internet



Ultra Carp

So while I'm waiting for support on my sensei raw mouse to get back to me (because my scroll wheel randomly scrolls up sometimes). I was thinking of picking up a new mouse, and wanted to know all my options.

I saw on the last few pages

Logitech G series
minox avior 7000
kone KTD
steelseries sensei
zowie fk 1

any others that are worth me researching?

I primarily play games; most common games World of tanks, cs:go, total war series, tera online, strategy games. So almost the whole board.

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002



That's a good list to look at. Specifically look at the G502 from the Logitech series. And also, check out the Naos 7000 while you're looking at the Avior, it's basically the same mouse with a different shape, I actually like the Naos much better and I used to exclusively use ambidex mice.

ihatepants
Nov 5, 2011

Let the burning of pants commence. These things drive me nuts.




Does anyone know what the difference is between the newer models of the Razer Deathadder and one from 2008 or so? I bought one around the time circuit city was closing and am looking for a new mouse.

I play all kinds of games, but I always wished that the DeathAdder had more buttons, either on thumb or near the scroll wheel. My favorite mouse, because of this, was my old Logitech MX1000.

I think I'm currently considering the Razer Naga or Logitech G502. How do they compare? Are there any others I should be looking into?

Horizontal Tree
Dec 31, 2009


Well, for starters, ones made by Razer and the other is made by Logitech. That should pretty much answer how they compare.

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002



To be fair to Razer's build quality, pretty much every gamer mouse these days is going to break down after a year or two thanks to poor quality switches mostly all coming from the same 1 or 2 manufacturers. As such, it's a really good idea to make sure that whatever mouse you buy either:

1) Has fantastic RMA support and will replace your mouse when a switch or something else breaks, with a minimum of hassle.
2) Is inexpensive enough that you don't mind replacing it periodically.

Sh4
Feb 8, 2009


The G302 is supposed to have really durable switches, my G502 right click is already hosed after around 100 hours of dota which is kind of disappointing

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
"It has gunfights and shit!"


Lipstick Apathy

I'm digging the mouse you guys steered me to, the Kensington SureTrack. Tracks on my pants and on glass, 1600dpi, bluetooth, works nice on my PC and my phone, lefty-friendly, not too bad at $40 on Amazon.

Uses an actual laser, some other mice that claim "laser" only use an LED.

It feels a little weird with my fingertip grip because the sides are concave, but hopefully I'll get used to that.

The clicking is sorta loud, if I'm cool with opening it up is there anything you guys know to help muffle the sound?

ihatepants
Nov 5, 2011

Let the burning of pants commence. These things drive me nuts.




Horizontal Tree posted:

Well, for starters, ones made by Razer and the other is made by Logitech. That should pretty much answer how they compare.

Thanks. I went to go try both out in-store and loved the feel of the Logitech, so I went with that one. Pretty happy with it just from the little testing I've done today.

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Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002



Sh4 posted:

The G302 is supposed to have really durable switches, my G502 right click is already hosed after around 100 hours of dota which is kind of disappointing

It's the double click issue right? I'm actually curious if you or anyone else has tried any of the software solutions to the problem (autohotkey scripts or other apps). I suppose the idea is that they look for any double clicks that are faster than what is humanly feasible and just treats them as a single click. Sounds like it could potentially work but I don't have any mice sitting around with that exact issue to test it with.

Looks like Steelseries has completely discontinued the Kana v2 now, they might have something new in the works. Mionix has a new mouse coming out called the Castor, which looks like it's a smaller mouse about half way between the shape of the Avior and the Naos.

Oh and it looks like Zowie have new models out as well. FK2, EC1-A and EC2-A, which have slightly newer sensors it seems.

Gwyrgyn Blood fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Feb 3, 2015

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