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Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009

by FactsAreUseless


Pretty sure you didn't even watch it.

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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours


Yuh huh!

Mahoning
Feb 3, 2007


DeimosRising posted:

Spielberg has made at least 2 romantic comedies but I don't see how that has anything to do with anything. I'm not criticizing what Burns should have or could have done. I'm criticizing what he did.

You seem to have this weird belief that Burns's portrayal of the war is neutral, drawing objectively from a well of pure experience and fact to show equally "what it was like" for "both sides". That's silly, of course - Burns had to decide whose experiences to highlight, whose to cut, who not to interview at all, what images would and wouldn't play with what accounts, which determines how we interpret those accounts, and so forth. Anytime something is presented to you as unbiased and you believe it, what's actually happening is you're being told what you already believe.

Of course nothing is unbiased and no one claimed that its unbiased. What Iím saying is that Burns doesnít go out trying force an opinion or judgement down your throat. If anything he hints around it, but it should be obvious to anyone who isnít a child. I guess he could make it more like a childrenís book and refer to the US Government as the Big Bad Wolf every time they appear, but maybe he assumes that his audience is a bit smarter than that.

I still havenít exactly heard what people wanted it to do better. The only intelligible complaint youíve made is that it didnít focus enough on Vietnam post-conflict? Ok? Is that really a legitimate complaint? It was like 17 hours and from a decidedly American perspective, like every Burns documentary ever. When it comes down to whatís gonna get cut (and poo poo always gets cut) Burns will eliminate non-American stuff every time, because his MO is purely American poo poo. Itís why his WWII doc is so bad. But I canít exactly fault him for not focusing too much on things that werenít part of the Vietnam War proper.

SimonCat
Aug 12, 2016

by Nyc_Tattoo


College Slice

I mean, if you want to watch a set of US critical Vietnam documentaries, most of John Pilger's stuff is on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krcNTkAgRrA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIXSa21y5Po

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9mKCBIQEL0

Lil Mama Im Sorry
Oct 14, 2012

I'M BACK AND I'M SCARIN' WHITE FOLKS

Mahoning posted:

Of course nothing is unbiased and no one claimed that its unbiased. What I’m saying is that Burns doesn’t go out trying force an opinion or judgement down your throat. If anything he hints around it, but it should be obvious to anyone who isn’t a child. I guess he could make it more like a children’s book and refer to the US Government as the Big Bad Wolf every time they appear, but maybe he assumes that his audience is a bit smarter than that.

I still haven’t exactly heard what people wanted it to do better. The only intelligible complaint you’ve made is that it didn’t focus enough on Vietnam post-conflict? Ok? Is that really a legitimate complaint? It was like 17 hours and from a decidedly American perspective, like every Burns documentary ever. When it comes down to what’s gonna get cut (and poo poo always gets cut) Burns will eliminate non-American stuff every time, because his MO is purely American poo poo. It’s why his WWII doc is so bad. But I can’t exactly fault him for not focusing too much on things that weren’t part of the Vietnam War proper.

obligatory:

Kull the Conqueror
Apr 8, 2006



SimonCat posted:

I mean, if you want to watch a set of US critical Vietnam documentaries, most of John Pilger's stuff is on Youtube.

Also, the best of them all, In the Year of the Pig:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz8H_oi1ck0

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours


"He was a man that gave up his country to fight for his state which in 150 years ago was more important than country. It was always loyalty to state first back in those days. Now it's different today. But the lack of an ability to compromise led to the Civil War. And men and women of good faith on both sides made their stand where their conscience had to make their stand." - immeasurably powerful, respected, decorated yet stupid piece of poo poo John Kelly

It was because we failed to do the thing we really have a genius for, which is compromise. Americans like to think of themselves as uncompromising. Our true genius is for compromise. Our whole governmentís founded on it. And it failed. - Shelby Foote, Ken Burns' Civil War, Episode One

BONUS

https://twitter.com/christinawilkie/status/925436547297677313

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Oct 31, 2017

SimonCat
Aug 12, 2016

by Nyc_Tattoo


College Slice

I will say this, I am completely over the Baby Boomers and their sense of self-importance. It seems like because Vietnam was their war, it has to be the most important war ever, and acting like no other war comes close. I get that Vietnam was a much busier war than the GWOT, but it's hard for me to listen to someone who spent 1 tour in Vietnam go on and on when there are plenty of modern day troops who have done multiple year long deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan and don't bitch that much about it.

They really were the "me" generation, weren't they?

mod sassinator
Dec 13, 2006

I was living a doritos and mt dew incel life locked in my room. Then covid happened and I could pretend I was some sort of special hero for that. Now I spend all day worrying that could get ruined.I guarantee the post next to this message is me talking in baby talk while hyping up fake doomer news.

SimonCat posted:

I will say this, I am completely over the Baby Boomers and their sense of self-importance. It seems like because Vietnam was their war, it has to be the most important war ever, and acting like no other war comes close. I get that Vietnam was a much busier war than the GWOT, but it's hard for me to listen to someone who spent 1 tour in Vietnam go on and on when there are plenty of modern day troops who have done multiple year long deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan and don't bitch that much about it.

They really were the "me" generation, weren't they?

They grew up hearing their parents talk about the depression, WWII, etc. and forever have a chip on their shoulder that they're better than their parents.

Duzzy Funlop
Jan 13, 2010


We real cool. We
Left school. We

Lurk late. We
Strike straight. We

Sing sin. We
Thin gin. We

Jazz June. We
Die soon.


Anyone have a recommendation for what to do for a regular fix of space / universe documentaries?

I dig ones along the lines of Discovery Channel's "How the Universe works", or the really similar "The Universe", but also sifted through the remake of Cosmos with deGrasse Tyson.

poo poo like black holes, galaxies, and how the universe finds ways to make gravity either look awesome or break things really beautifully is kinda my poo poo. I need something a little more digestable and less emotional than the Vietnam documentary, but that still has potential to blow my mind.

Mahoning
Feb 3, 2007


Duzzy Funlop posted:

Anyone have a recommendation for what to do for a regular fix of space / universe documentaries?

I dig ones along the lines of Discovery Channel's "How the Universe works", or the really similar "The Universe", but also sifted through the remake of Cosmos with deGrasse Tyson.

poo poo like black holes, galaxies, and how the universe finds ways to make gravity either look awesome or break things really beautifully is kinda my poo poo. I need something a little more digestable and less emotional than the Vietnam documentary, but that still has potential to blow my mind.

Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman ranges from lame to really amazing. Also, there was one a few years ago with Stephen Hawking that was really good.

Stare-Out
Mar 11, 2010

not all who wander are lost


I've asked this a few times in this thread and been completely ignored so what the hell, gonna try it again; any good documentaries about the post-classic era Mayans? Meaning their culture and stuff around the time of the Spanish conquest and the conquest itself in the late 15th and early 16th century? Most of the ones I find are about ancient aliens poo poo or otherwise really superficial and go on to be more about the Aztecs. There has to be some good ones out there. :(

Duzzy Funlop posted:

Anyone have a recommendation for what to do for a regular fix of space / universe documentaries?

I dig ones along the lines of Discovery Channel's "How the Universe works", or the really similar "The Universe", but also sifted through the remake of Cosmos with deGrasse Tyson.

poo poo like black holes, galaxies, and how the universe finds ways to make gravity either look awesome or break things really beautifully is kinda my poo poo. I need something a little more digestable and less emotional than the Vietnam documentary, but that still has potential to blow my mind.

A lot Brian Cox's (not the actor) documentaries are really good. The more recent ones are more about life on earth which is cool in its own right but being a physicist he's made some really interesting docs about space stuff too. I highly recommend them.

Duzzy Funlop
Jan 13, 2010


We real cool. We
Left school. We

Lurk late. We
Strike straight. We

Sing sin. We
Thin gin. We

Jazz June. We
Die soon.


Mahoning posted:

Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman ranges from lame to really amazing. Also, there was one a few years ago with Stephen Hawking that was really good.

Ah, yeah, I've worked through that one too. One hell of a too-sleep-putter with that narration. Loved the bits where he ties his childhood into the topics as well. But I've cherry-picked the series dry pretty much, same with Brian Cox' series, was hoping there'd be a continuation or similar multipart-series like those.

Mahoning
Feb 3, 2007


Duzzy Funlop posted:

Ah, yeah, I've worked through that one too. One hell of a too-sleep-putter with that narration. Loved the bits where he ties his childhood into the topics as well. But I've cherry-picked the series dry pretty much, same with Brian Cox' series, was hoping there'd be a continuation or similar multipart-series like those.

Into the Universe was the one I was talking about with Stephen Hawking. It is just a 3 -part series but it is pretty good. It is narrated by Benedict Cumberbatch.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003



Are there any docs on an "underground" far left group in the contemporary US? Like Antifa, Maoists, or whoever dresses up in black and breaks poo poo during protests. But here's the kicker - without being an Alex Jones scare story for racist uncles. Something like "When a Tree Falls", but...better.

KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012

Easter was an Inside Job


Just found out about "Room Full of Spoons" in the wake of the new trailer for Disaster Arist which I probably won't be able to find anywhere anytime soon

I don't know if ive made it all the way thru the room but god drat do I appreciate it and does james franco's characterization look amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPSJYXi7BWA

Kull the Conqueror
Apr 8, 2006



Ramrod Hotshot posted:

Are there any docs on an "underground" far left group in the contemporary US? Like Antifa, Maoists, or whoever dresses up in black and breaks poo poo during protests. But here's the kicker - without being an Alex Jones scare story for racist uncles. Something like "When a Tree Falls", but...better.

The Weather Underground

e: Oh, contemporary nvm.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



KoRMaK posted:

Just found out about "Room Full of Spoons" in the wake of the new trailer for Disaster Arist which I probably won't be able to find anywhere anytime soon

I don't know if ive made it all the way thru the room but god drat do I appreciate it and does james franco's characterization look amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPSJYXi7BWA

The Disaster Artist Movie will probably be far better than Roomful anyway.

ICHIBAHN
Feb 21, 2007

by Cyrano4747


What's Room Full of Spoons?

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



Its a documentary about Tommy Wiseau, the guy who made The Room. Heís an interesting guy and thereís a lot of intrigue as to where heís from and where he got his money. Just a base feeling that prying into someoneís private life probably wonít make for a good documentary, unless theyíre involved in tickling videos.

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007
.

Taco Defender

EL BROMANCE posted:

Heís an interesting guy and thereís a lot of intrigue as to where heís from and where he got his money.

Greg Sestero talks about it in the book. He might of got alot of inheritance from an Aunt or he might of had a strong work ethic to amass the money. There a story in the book on how he used to run a street car shop/kiosk that sold European bird toys and there was this Italian(I think) restaurant near it. His little shop was so popular he could afford an apartment somewhere nice. He tried to use the bathroom of the restaurant one day and got kicked out because he wasn't a paying customer so he tried to apply for a job there. They denied him and each week Tommy would come back and try to get a job there. Then one day the restaurant was busy and they lost a busboy, they went over to Tommy and told him he can have a job but he had to start right now and he did. When he wasn't cleaning tables he was selling his toys outside.

There's also another part where they shot outdoor shots around a building for footage for The Room and its implied Tommy is talking to the guy who runs the place saying "We can talk about the rent later" for letting them shoot there. Greg Sestero had seen the building before in some ad or video Tommy had shot I think for a jean commerical of some knockoff jeans that were being sold.

The book is a good read and you would prob learn more than some documentary or the movie is going to show you.

Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Nov 5, 2017

BogDew
Jun 14, 2006

E:\FILES>quickfli clown.fli

Tommy getting his SAG card was amazing.
The guild states you need to have starred in a few productions of anything. Tommy cottons on that this also means commercials. So he goes and makes a few starring himself for his jeans company to get his accreditation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fqAFCb4-ec

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!



Yeah Iíve been meaning to either read or listen to the book in forever, everyone says the audio book is great as Greg does a really good Tommy impression.

Zwabu
Aug 7, 2006



SimonCat posted:

I will say this, I am completely over the Baby Boomers and their sense of self-importance. It seems like because Vietnam was their war, it has to be the most important war ever, and acting like no other war comes close. I get that Vietnam was a much busier war than the GWOT, but it's hard for me to listen to someone who spent 1 tour in Vietnam go on and on when there are plenty of modern day troops who have done multiple year long deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan and don't bitch that much about it.

They really were the "me" generation, weren't they?

Yeah the Boomers are terrible and self important, but the Vietnam era is really important because, among many other reasons, the cultural divisions of the 60s-70s/Vietnam/Nixon era are totally the same fault lines that define American politics today. Trump has directly appropriated the Silent Generation vs. Academic Liberal Elite poo poo from Nixon (even using the actual phrase). It's just updated with extra Fox News enhancements and more rigid polarization. And a substantial chunk of America is more than happy to wear that mantle.

The way I see it, the divisions from the Civil War are the fundamental fault lines in American politics down to this day, with some modifications that happened during the Vietnam era.

Alan_Shore
Dec 2, 2004



I watched One of Us on Netflix because I don't know much about Hassidic jews and drat if that situation wouldn't be a perfect horror movie. Shadows spying on you, people banging on your door, it's a dang nightmare. All this in New Jersey. Definitely worth a watch for a nice bit of anger.

Herv
Mar 24, 2005



Soiled Meat

The Polybius Conspiracy
https://www.radiotopia.fm/showcase/the-polybius-conspiracy/

quote:

The Polybius Conspiracy is a seven-part series, originally heard on Showcase, which tells the complex story of two men united by a decades-old urban legend. Polybius, a mysterious arcade game from the '80s whose alleged existence in the Pacific Northwest is fueled by myth and an obsessive online fan base, and which may have factored in the abduction of two teenage boys.

Ok this BS story was just a 5 minute read a decade ago, but its now a 7 part epic. Something you can listen to while you commute to work.

Pretty much every possible arcade game urban legend wrapped into one, but hey consider this entertainment!

Podcast it up!

GutBomb
Jun 15, 2005

Dude?


Herv posted:

The Polybius Conspiracy
https://www.radiotopia.fm/showcase/the-polybius-conspiracy/


Ok this BS story was just a 5 minute read a decade ago, but its now a 7 part epic. Something you can listen to while you commute to work.

Pretty much every possible arcade game urban legend wrapped into one, but hey consider this entertainment!

Podcast it up!

There was an hour long youtube episode of Ahoy about this and I can't imagine there being more than an hour of information out there about this...

Mahoning
Feb 3, 2007


If you want to watch a quick one, thereís a 40 minute doc on Netflix called Long Shot about a man accused of murder that is exonerated by a Dodger game and an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm. Not mind blowing but itís short and itís a pretty crazy story so itís worth it.

Asnorban
Jun 13, 2003

Professor Gavelsmoke




Mahoning posted:

If you want to watch a quick one, thereís a 40 minute doc on Netflix called Long Shot about a man accused of murder that is exonerated by a Dodger game and an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm. Not mind blowing but itís short and itís a pretty crazy story so itís worth it.

Please tell me itís because he is on camera in some random shot of the Car Pool Lane episode of Curb.

Asnorban fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Nov 20, 2017

Mahoning
Feb 3, 2007


Asnorban posted:

Please tell me itís because he is on camera in some random shot of the Car Pool
Lane episode of Curb.


It is!

Mahoning
Feb 3, 2007


Wow this thread really died. Iíve got two for ya:

Wormwood on Netflix is a 6-part half-documentary half-dramatic re-enactment (with famous actors even!) about a government scientist who committed suicide in 1953 by jumping out the window of his NYC hotel room. The official story is that the government was testing LSD on him (project MK-Ultra) but the truth could be much more sinister. The whole thing is centered around the guyís son who is a fascinating story teller and has basically made finding the truth his crusade over the last 60+ years.

Voyeur is also on Netflix and is the story of a motel owner who had a catwalk in his motel and spied on his guests for over a decade, writing down everything he saw in a journal. When famous author Gay Talese begins to publish a book about him, things begin to unravel a bit. This is basically a documentary about the documentary about the book about the man. Not the best structured documentary ever but it did remind me a bit of both Icarus and Exit Through the Gift Shop in that the subject of the documentary starts off as one thing and ends up as another.

MeinPanzer
Dec 19, 2004
anyone who reads Cinema Discusso for anything more than slackjawed trolling will see the shittiness in my posts

Mahoning posted:

Wow this thread really died. Iíve got two for ya:

Wormwood on Netflix is a 6-part half-documentary half-dramatic re-enactment (with famous actors even!) about a government scientist who committed suicide in 1953 by jumping out the window of his NYC hotel room. The official story is that the government was testing LSD on him (project MK-Ultra) but the truth could be much more sinister. The whole thing is centered around the guyís son who is a fascinating story teller and has basically made finding the truth his crusade over the last 60+ years.

Just finished this with my family. I thought it was a fantastic return to form for Morris after the mediocre Tabloid and The Unknown Known. I have to admit that I found the re-enactments a little off-putting at first, since I generally dislike that kind of thing in documentaries, but given the whole recurring motif of collage that is so prominent throughout I came to like it. The whole thing probably could have been cut down a bit, maybe to 5 episodes instead of 6, but I still really enjoyed the careful, piecemeal revelation of twists and turns. The themes it addresses (especially about deception, whether you can ever reconstruct the truth, and what that drive reveals about us) are pure Errol Morris, and the broader context makes it an interesting sequel of sorts to Fog of War

The story did make me curious though about how exactly Eric Olson used collage in his psychological research. They seemed to imply that he got people to choose images and put them together in order to reveal their subconscious, but I'm curious if, or how, that was effective.

Waltzing Along
Jun 14, 2008

There's only one
Human race
Many faces
Everybody belongs here

I thought Voyeur was interesting.

Wormwood I couldn't get through the first episode.

cloudchamber
Aug 6, 2010

You know what the Ukraine is? It's a sitting duck. A road apple, Newman. The Ukraine is weak. It's feeble. I think it's time to put the hurt on the Ukraine

Waltzing Along posted:



Wormwood I couldn't get through the first episode.

I started watching it expecting to like it but have found it amazingly tedious. Feel no real compulsion to watch the remaining episodes even though the subject matter is normally the kind of thing I find intriguing.

cloudchamber fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Dec 29, 2017

MeinPanzer
Dec 19, 2004
anyone who reads Cinema Discusso for anything more than slackjawed trolling will see the shittiness in my posts

The pacing is a bit uneven, and the first episode is IMO unnecessarily vague on what exactly the story is about. Nonetheless, it really picks up in the second episode, when it becomes more of a straightforward documentary with some illuminating reconstructions instead of a confusing mix of reconstruction and seemingly random snippets of information. By the time we'd gotten to the fourth episode my parents and I felt compelled to watch the last three back-to-back, which is not something we often do.

Dr.Caligari
May 5, 2005

"Here's a big, beautiful avatar for someone"


So those that consider Burns documentary on Vietnam bad, whatís a good documentary? Iím on the third episode of Burnsí and donít find it to be horrible or anything

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004



Dr.Caligari posted:

So those that consider Burns documentary on Vietnam bad, whatís a good documentary? Iím on the third episode of Burnsí and donít find it to be horrible or anything

10000 Day War and Letters From Home are both a must.

Dr.Caligari
May 5, 2005

"Here's a big, beautiful avatar for someone"


Thank you!

Hell, while Iím here, if you could please give me a couple of good Korean War documentaries.

The REAL Goobusters
Apr 25, 2008



Ken burns Vietnam is good wtf?

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Zwabu
Aug 7, 2006



The REAL Goobusters posted:

Ken burns Vietnam is good wtf?

The critics of it in this thread seem to feel, generally, that it's too neutral in not rendering judgment on the choices made and actions taken by the U.S. and therefore by default is favorable to the U.S. in a way that it shouldn't be. I don't agree with this, personally.

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