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Oracle
Oct 9, 2004




Senerio posted:

They've already confirmed a DBMAT

Which means what? Dragon Ball Martial Arts Tournament? They did say the holder of both the ladybug and cat miraculouses would have some kind of phenomenal cosmic power...

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Senerio
Oct 19, 2009

Ooh! Are we messing with Adora?



He had hinted at things to come by saying DBMAT as one of them, and then tweeted that as an explanation that yes, he means Dragon Ball Martial Arts Tournament.

Waffleman_
Jan 20, 2011

I'm just goin' with the FLOW, baby.




We have premiere date for OK KO

https://twitter.com/cartoonnetwork/...127442475778049

CuddlyZombie
Nov 6, 2005

I wuv your brains.



That's all very well and good, but will it have the ending to RPG World?

Digamma-F-Wau
Mar 22, 2016

...puh-
puhroud..??




Guess it's time to make the thread them

kidcoelacanth
Sep 23, 2009




More duckes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyX6LEyLthc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FCwOJ4Ok_4

Ramos
Jul 3, 2012





Thanks for the birthday present, CN.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

Just noticed something interesting rewatching the pilot of Sabrina: The Teenage Witch - Libby didn't fire the first shot. Her initial barbs are basic ribbing of the new kid, commenting that the smell may not have been from dissecting a frog, sweeping the lab partner, mild bullying but nothing overly direct - just a little power play at the new kid, and a little joke to amuse Jill and Ceecee, but Sabrina follows up with an accidental cannonball, making a retort that Libby uses aftershave to remind her of a boy who dumped her - instead of playing it off like everything else, she freezes and can only say "How did you know that?" She wasn't able to play it off - it genuinely hurt her. Libby starts with teen stuff, but their rivalry truly begins with Sabrina being the cruellest one..

Edit: If the do-over hadn't been granted that rivalry could have gone nuclear with the accidental kidnapping and all. Also had a really nice introspective moment with Salem about his regrets about failing to take over the world.

Also an interesting detail in the spellbook, The Discovery of Magic, there is a set of drawings on the page with Edward Spellman's portrait - anatomical drawings and a sketch of what looks like a Sleight-of-Hand maneuver - apparently science is just as important to magic as the magical part, as will be mentioned a few times later like with the Quizmaster being annoyed that Sabrina didn't expect making it really hot then really cold really quickly would result in indoor rain.

BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Jul 5, 2017

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



BioEnchanted posted:

Libby starts with teen stuff, but their rivalry truly begins with Sabrina being the cruellest one...
I've seen other attempts to rationalize the Mean Character (like Sharpay in HSM) and it always falls flat because there's never a point where they stop being complete dickbags to other people/the 'less important'/or the perceived outcasts.

It's like oh poo poo someone stood up to the Mean Machine and they couldn't let it go for 4 years.

Rand Brittain
Mar 24, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

I've never really understood the archetype of the "popular" person who is popular in spite of being brutally and pointlessly unfriendly to everyone outside of a tiny clique. Generally people become "popular" because they are pleasant to be around.

Well, I didn't understand it until 2016, I guess.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



It only makes sense if you assume the writers got dunked on for being gross weirdos and couldnt figure out thats why everyone else agreed with the popular person.

Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010

There's only one prescription for Nazism and it's 76mm HVAP





Ultra Carp

I think the idea is that nobody actually likes the popular person, but they're rich and attractive and can control access to parties, give expensive gifts, and are well-connected enough that they can easily spread nasty rumors about people they don't like, so nobody wants to get on their bad side.

I just find it funny because the whole idea of there being one "popular kid" atop the high school social strata is hilariously far removed from my own high school experience, where there were so many students (6,200 across a three-school campus) that nobody knew who you were and nobody cared if they did.

Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Jul 5, 2017

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


I have a theory that the vast bulk of high school archetypes are entirely made up and have no real basis in anything; they've just been parroted so much by fiction throughout the decades that people just assume they're accurate.

Then again, maybe I was just stuck with my head in the mud during high school, who knows.

Waffleman_
Jan 20, 2011

I'm just goin' with the FLOW, baby.




I don't think the nerds vs. jocks thing has ever existed and I'm pretty sure it was just invented for movies to avoid confronting the real reasons for bullying, which are usually things like race and sexuality.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

Admittedly it's a dumb trope, that may have started in the 80s with Heathers, I don't know if it predated that, but I just thought that that was an interesting aspect of that take on the archetype. Also, last point I'll make on the subject - Libby as a cheerleader is not that big a part of her character, she positioned herself there due to what they represent - she is shown to be just as manipulative if involved with other cliques, when she is turned into a nerd in that one episode, after a brief stint being made fun of by her former cohorts she pretty much takes over that clique instead and they develop a surprising amount of confidence on becoming the new "bullies" on the block during her tenure that afternoon, although in their case is more intellectual/cultural elitism and relatively mild exclusion.

BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Jul 6, 2017

xcheopis
Jul 23, 2003




I was hoping Penn Zero would be fun but my enjoyment has been destroyed by it being yet another god damned loving musical show.

Madurai
Jun 26, 2012



Waffleman_ posted:

I don't think the nerds vs. jocks thing has ever existed and I'm pretty sure it was just invented for movies to avoid confronting the real reasons for bullying, which are usually things like race and sexuality.

Congrats on going to a school that wasn't a dystopic jockocracy, I guess. Maybe things have changed since the Eighties, but I doubt it.

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine


xcheopis posted:

I was hoping Penn Zero would be fun but my enjoyment has been destroyed by it being yet another god damned loving musical show.

I think they only do musical bits in one or two episodes

Thompsons
Aug 28, 2008

Ask me about onklunk extraction.

SlothfulCobra posted:

I have a theory that the vast bulk of high school archetypes are entirely made up and have no real basis in anything; they've just been parroted so much by fiction throughout the decades that people just assume they're accurate.

It reminds me a lot of how even into like the mid-2000s you'd have cartoons showing elementary/middle school kids still wearing like 50's style beanies and Jughead hats.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012


Madurai posted:

Congrats on going to a school that wasn't a dystopic jockocracy, I guess. Maybe things have changed since the Eighties, but I doubt it.

It depends on the school size and region I think. When I went to high school in the mid 00s at a small town in Florida, a sizable number of the academic high achievers were also in sports. Mind, all of our sports teams sucked or, at very best, did decent in the division. Divisions were more based on race, SES and whether or not you wore flannel regularly

X_Toad
Apr 2, 2011


xcheopis posted:

I was hoping Penn Zero would be fun but my enjoyment has been destroyed by it being yet another god damned loving musical show.
There is one episode that's a musical? How did you stumble on this one as your first watching?

Bobbin Threadbare
Jan 2, 2009

I'm looking for a flock of urbanmechs.



drrockso20 posted:

I think they only do musical bits in one or two episodes

Actually, I rewatched the series recently since the new season is coming out and there's a song in like every other episode. Usually there's some in-story excuse for people to burst into song or it plays over a montage sequence or something, so it's more like Phineas and Ferb than MLP. That's probably why you don't really remember them.

Guy Mann
Mar 28, 2016

by Lowtax


SlothfulCobra posted:

I have a theory that the vast bulk of high school archetypes are entirely made up and have no real basis in anything; they've just been parroted so much by fiction throughout the decades that people just assume they're accurate.

Then again, maybe I was just stuck with my head in the mud during high school, who knows.

That and I figure that up until very recently television writing was considered some of the lowest and most inglamorous writing you could do so if you were not only a professional writer but one that couldn't hack it in the big leagues then you're probably exactly the kind of poorly-adjusted poindexter that would carry grudges about high school well into adulthood and use the modicum of power your job gives thrm to totally stick it to all those Stacies and Chads who you imagine slighted you.

cant cook creole bream
Aug 15, 2011
I think Fahrenheit is better for weather

Guy Mann posted:

That and I figure that up until very recently television writing was considered some of the lowest and most inglamorous writing you could do so if you were not only a professional writer but one that couldn't hack it in the big leagues then you're probably exactly the kind of poorly-adjusted poindexter that would carry grudges about high school well into adulthood and use the modicum of power your job gives thrm to totally stick it to all those Stacies and Chads who you imagine slighted you.
That sounds oddly specific.
Which show did you write?

Crabtree
Oct 17, 2012


Dinosaur Gum

Man, I guess I was just a weird freak in my early 2000s high-school time where I am oddball enough to be known by way more people than I'd ever remember or actually met. Especially when I put my name in to the - I guess Junior section of Homecoming as a joke and wound up being elected Homecoming "prince"(?). Annoyed the girl that was probably hoping for someone better, but I told her to just let any grief hit me because I didn't expect anyone to call my bluff like that.

But yeah, I'm assuming the one popular mean kid was something of an easy target to not only write for as sometimes a show needed a bad guy/girl to make anything happen, to aforementioned vindictiveness in actual nerds that either made or watched the show wanting to root for the downfall of the normal ones. A combo of a stuck up rich kid which is universally annoying to everyone at some point in their life, a perfect child that could annoy anyone that couldn't compete with them or I guess the one kid that really lucked out in looks department driving everyone's hormones crazy - even the doinks who didn't know how to actually talk to them AND THUS ALL OF THEM ARE AGAINST ME and boom. Easy foil for a school setting that didn't have to go into aforementioned real reasons of bullying.

FuzzySkinner
May 23, 2012



I watched that "cry baby lane" movie that aired on the 90's nick block a few nights a go.

I wondered why I had never heard of it nor watched it. Turns out I was at Notre Dame-Air Force that afternoon, and then was listening to Purdue-Ohio State with my dad in the car. It only aired once.

Anyways. I noticed that was filmed in Northern Ohio right away because I could detect familiarity in the scenery. This kinda made the movie more ridiculous to me because the only thing I associate with small town ohio is crippling boredom. Also they really hosed up with the creation of the parents. They didn't seem like Ohio parents to me.

Anyway the movie sucked. I don't understand how it got made. Just seems ripe for Rifftrax more than anything.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

Despite the overplayed nature of the character I feel that Libby was a particularly good example of it because she went beyond the trappings of the character - I'd compare her more to a low-rent Heather or Plastic because her position was always ancilliary to her behaviour - she was genuinely manipulative in a few different situations after losing her social standing for an episode, and she had a reason for lashing out, although not a very good one - her terrible mother. Also that same episode gives a potential "out" for the character - when turned into a Jigsaw Puzzle, she has a piece missing - she has weaknesses, and feelings of course, two of her pieces are her achilles heel and her heart (She's failing maths and the only person in the world she actually cares about on any real level is her grandmother) but she lacks empathy. Likely because of her mother's general shrewishness she never had positive behavioural lessons instilled in her - Sabrina is given a task that is abandoned, which is a shame as the idea has potential - be nicer to LIbby, try to get on with her and eventually, maybe, it may help break through her protective, calculated exterior.


The writing had (unrealised) potential.

For further context about me - I'm not entirely speaking from nostalgia - that was the reason I revisited it, and possibly the reason I still find it funny, but I've had strong opinions about more recent shows as well - there was an episode of Drake and Josh that I was like "OK, this could be interesting", and even a sequence in Hannah Montana, a show that I avoided and only caught by accident flipping channels that had either a potentially amusing gag (her Father and brother trying to hide each other's cars after they both crash them, and a moment where Miley wanted to out herself, had second thoughts and made it look like she was just a nutso fan. Not particularly funny until her father walks in and just closes the deal with "Hi. I'm Billie Ray Cyrus.") or potential for interesting drama (her friend accidentally calling her by her stage name in the pilot, making it seem like she only cared about her for her fame). If a bad show writes something with potential, even by accident, I notice.

BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Jul 12, 2017

Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010

There's only one prescription for Nazism and it's 76mm HVAP





Ultra Carp

Some news from D23:



In addition, Star's book of spells from Star vs the Forces of Evil will be getting the Journal #3 treatment:



blacklight edition unconfirmed

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




High school shows, if they avoid a typical 'rich good looking jerk' antagonist usually have to go for corrupt, tyrannical or otherwise antagonistic teachers and school staff instead. Recess usually had the teachers cast as antagonists, though they often had humanising moments, while Daria mainly focuses on a corrupt principal funnelling the school's sparse funding into increasingly absurd security measures and sports facilities rather than classroom equipment and teacher salaries. (I did like the episode where a teacher's strike results in Li hiring (briefly) an obvious pedophile and then drafting Daria herself as a substitute teacher)

On the other hand, a lot of more recent shows tend to downplay school as an element or bypass it entirely. (Gravity Falls, Steven Universe, to a lesser extent Star Vs)

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

Some shows had both, Libby would often team up with the headteacher to cause the main character misery. Gave a good reason for her power, she was the most powerful teacher's favourite student. I also felt that the actress had some fairly funny reaction shots. Not as strong as Martin Mull, but not a bad performance by any means.

Also the neutral teachers had strong characterisation - Mr Pool while kind of a milquetoast in life, would try to engage in the classroom, mostly with dumb jokes but it seemed to come naturally to the character. (Also he's the biology teacher and his name is Gene Pool ) And the other major teacher Mrs Quick would often get involved in magical goings on, with someone great reactions, like when Sabrina tries to enlist her help solving the family secret and they both end up punished by having to live with no shortcuts in a frontier environment for a couple of days. Mrs Quick is loving the whole crunchy baking-our-own-bread thing considering it a small break from the rigours of modern life. She is also a character who is generally weak in personality but when she gets passionate she gets forceful, like in the episode where she 'catches' Sabrina's magic when she gets sick, calling Mr Kraft the "PTA's trained chimp", and accidentally turning him into one, resulting in a really cute line read: "*initially bubbly but voice cracking toward the end*I'm just fine Sabrina, it's just things are getting a little unusual, Mr Kraft is a chimp... and I think I'm going INSANE!"

Also to be fair, rich strong kids seem natural antagonists in a school setting - they are physically powerful and have easy shortcuts, so makes them an effective counterpoint to the usual kids show Underdog Story that most of them try to tell, so it's a cliche I'm willing to forgive.

BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Jul 15, 2017

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine


Honestly I'd love a show with a school setting where the main characters ARE the rich, popular, good looking kids, if just for how unique that would be, same for an animated sitcom where the main character's family are wealthy enough that money issues almost never come up, cause money problems are too easy and overused as plot hooks these days in my opinion

Bobbin Threadbare
Jan 2, 2009

I'm looking for a flock of urbanmechs.



drrockso20 posted:

Honestly I'd love a show with a school setting where the main characters ARE the rich, popular, good looking kids, if just for how unique that would be, same for an animated sitcom where the main character's family are wealthy enough that money issues almost never come up, cause money problems are too easy and overused as plot hooks these days in my opinion

Well, one of the protagonists lives in a trailer park, but otherwise Riverdale is pretty close to the mark.

raditts
Feb 21, 2001

The Kwanzaa Bot is here to protect me.



drrockso20 posted:

Honestly I'd love a show with a school setting where the main characters ARE the rich, popular, good looking kids, if just for how unique that would be, same for an animated sitcom where the main character's family are wealthy enough that money issues almost never come up, cause money problems are too easy and overused as plot hooks these days in my opinion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu2eawfTiCM

PhazonLink
Jul 17, 2010


So Richie Rich?

Or that Warren Buffet cartoon "Secret Millionaires Club" that aired on the pony channel.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Star Butterfly is technically rich, popular, and good looking, and has her parents buy off the principal basically to solve any problems. And she's played against a pretty stereotypical obnoxious rich teenager, though she's basically only put up with because she's rich and can afford nice things.

Probably not gonna change much, especially since money problems are something more and more people are experiencing, and there's not a lot of sympathy for the rich going around.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



Placing the main characters on the top of the foodchain eliminates a lot of growth and conflict. Kind of hard to develop stuff when 90% of their problems could be solved with Bruce Wayne stacks of cash, or when they can just rally the student body to save the watering hole or whatever.


Inescapable Duck posted:

Probably not gonna change much, especially since money problems are something more and more people are experiencing, and there's not a lot of sympathy for the rich going around.
Yeah, word. Money is like the biggest thing that causes friction in families. Even if the kids don't realize they might not be financially secure, they at least know mom cant get BoneSpur 3 because she needs to pay the electric bill or buy her monthly bus pass or whatever.

Children's and Adolescent literature often is based upon power struggles, because children feel like they have none and teenagers are testing the boundaries of their quickly-growing capabilities. Giving a character a ton of money really changes the dynamic because they have access to a real-world superpower, so one needs to be careful that its not alienating.

Probably the closest we get to "Theyre all cool and awesome" comes to us in, what, Beverly Hills 90210 or Saved by the Bell? in the first, the students are well off enough to attend an affluent school in an affluent zipcode. In the second, Zach is a well-to-do popular kid with a cel phone, Kelly is the head cheerleader and girl next door, Lisa is fashionable and kind of a brat, Slater is the Ur-Jock with a decent set of brains to accompany, Jessie is the hardworking perfectionist, and then Screech is the rich dork they were friends with because he had some cool poo poo (he had a robot).

And despite that, they still have power struggles with other school factions and teachers.

FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Jul 15, 2017

Guy Mann
Mar 28, 2016

by Lowtax


I was always more puzzled why shows were still doing episodes about mumps and measles in the 1990s when everyone had been immunized.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

They were predicting the anti-vax movement.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister



Acebuckeye13 posted:

Some news from D23:



In addition, Star's book of spells from Star vs the Forces of Evil will be getting the Journal #3 treatment:



blacklight edition unconfirmed

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Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Most writers are basing stories on their dimly remembered childhood and adolescence with occasional blind stabs at relevance.

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