Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Cycloneman
Jan 31, 2009
ASK ME ABOUT
SISTER FUCKING


Bored As gently caress posted:

Che Guevara was a war criminal.

Maybe that's why.
Gonna need a citation on that.

Inspector_71 posted:

Why ever would I do that?
I don't know, but you can find people who will poo poo talk any given progressive leader in the entire twentieth century, from Henry Wallace to Zhou Enlai to Alexander Lukashenka.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Easychair Bootson
May 7, 2004

Where's the last guy?
Ultimo hombre.
Last man standing.
Must've been one.


Am I more intoxicated than I think, or am I phrasing the question that poorly?

I know that you don't just measure the distance between two bullet impacts at 100 yards. I understand that it is an angular measurement. What I don't understand is why Fang said the center of the arc is the muzzle of the gun.

Fang posted:

It is the arc between the two most distant holes where the center of the arc is the muzzle of the gun.

He's usually pretty precise in his language, so I am wondering if there is something that I don't understand beyond the fundamentals.

edit: I may have had an epiphany. If I'm picturing it correctly, Fang is correct, and Pitch's explanation helped me figure it out. I was thinking about the vector (if I'm using that term correctly) represented by the bullet's path in the barrel, but the angle of a measured group originates at the muzzle. Correct?

edit 2 for Atticus: What I was envisioning was your diagram but with the bullet impacts at, say, 1 o'clock and 2 o'clock instead of at 11:30 and 12:30.

edit 3 for Schigolch: Actually, we're back before square one with that diagram...

Easychair Bootson fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Jul 27, 2010

Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


GroovinPickle posted:

Am I more intoxicated than I think, or am I phrasing the question that poorly?

I know that you don't just measure the distance between two bullet impacts at 100 yards. I understand that it is an angular measurement. What I don't understand is why Fang said the center of the arc is the muzzle of the gun.


He's usually pretty precise in his language, so I am wondering if there is something that I don't understand beyond the fundamentals.

The black line is the gun. It is at the center. Both the lines are the path of the bullets that struck the target farthest apart from each other in the group. You then measure the angle between.

Atticus_1354 fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Jul 27, 2010

Schigolch
Apr 30, 2008

Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the Lamb, make thee?


Atticus already did it in a simpler way but I'll be damned if I spent minutes over a hot MSPaint for nothing.

Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


Schigolch posted:

Atticus already did it in a simpler way but I'll be damned if I spent minutes over a hot MSPaint for nothing.



I like your picture better. I am on a laptop and my gun kept turning out like poo poo. I am saving yours for future reference.

Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


GroovinPickle posted:

edit: I may have had an epiphany. If I'm picturing it correctly, Fang is correct, and Pitch's explanation helped me figure it out. I was thinking about the vector (if I'm using that term correctly) represented by the bullet's path in the barrel, but the angle of a measured group originates at the muzzle. Correct?

edit 2 for Atticus: What I was envisioning was your diagram but with the bullet impacts at, say, 1 o'clock and 2 o'clock instead of at 11:30 and 12:30.

Yes. As was stated before, considering a perfectly still gun the first chance a bullet has to change its path is as it exits the muzzle. I think you get it, but feel free to ask any more questions.

SadWhaleFamily
May 1, 2007



Pitch posted:

Che Guevara loved the FAL.

See, no one's all bad.

Alain Perdrix
Dec 19, 2007

Howdy!

Cycloneman posted:

Gonna need a citation on that.

Anderson, Jon Lee (1997). Che Guevara: A Revolutionary Life. New York: Grove Press. ISBN 0-8021-1600-0, pages 237-238, 269270, 277278.

Luther, Eric (2001). Che Guevara (Critical Lives). Penguin Group (USA). ISBN 002864199X, pp. 276.

incredibull
Sep 7, 2008

GENERIC

Getting pretty tired of hearing about zombies, the coming zombie apocalypse, zombie resistance training camps, zombie shooting events, and all the other zombie related bullshit that fills up every other single gun forum that I visit. The zombies are no longer just a joke that's been run into the ground in some places, instead now viewed as a likely SHTF scenario.

Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

incredibull posted:

Getting pretty tired of hearing about zombies, the coming zombie apocalypse, zombie resistance training camps, zombie shooting events, and all the other zombie related bullshit that fills up every other single gun forum that I visit. The zombies are no longer just a joke that's been run into the ground in some places, instead now viewed as a likely SHTF scenario.

...okay?

Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


incredibull posted:

Getting pretty tired of hearing about zombies, the coming zombie apocalypse, zombie resistance training camps, zombie shooting events, and all the other zombie related bullshit that fills up every other single gun forum that I visit. The zombies are no longer just a joke that's been run into the ground in some places, instead now viewed as a likely SHTF scenario.

That is nice and all, but maybe you have the wrong thread.

incredibull
Sep 7, 2008

GENERIC

yep I do, well too late to edit that out...

Lincoln`s Wax
Apr 30, 2000
My other, other car is a centipede filled with vaginas.

Cycloneman posted:

Gonna need a citation on that.

Gonna need you to stop posting in here and get the gently caress out. Thanks!

Easychair Bootson
May 7, 2004

Where's the last guy?
Ultimo hombre.
Last man standing.
Must've been one.


Atticus_1354 posted:

I like your picture better. I am on a laptop and my gun kept turning out like poo poo. I am saving yours for future reference.
... but his picture is incorrectly labeled, and doesn't explain the concept of minute of angle at all

Black Stormy
Apr 1, 2003



Gtab posted:

TFR you are mind-numbingly easy to troll

Is it that, or that we don't want another puckins episode? I honestly don't know.

Illegal Clown
Feb 18, 2004



Black Stormy posted:

Is it that, or that we don't want another puckins episode? I honestly don't know.

Yeah, that was my first thought when he said "urban warfare." I was going to ask if anyone was messing with his puckins, but by then it had already spiraled into full on troll/crazy mode, so I just sat back and watched.

Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

Black Stormy posted:

Is it that, or that we don't want another puckins episode? I honestly don't know.

No, it's definitely that you're mind-numbingly easy to troll.

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008








Meh I caught on right away, the rest was just trying to mess with him.

Bored As Fuck
Jan 1, 2006
Be polite. Be professional. But be prepared to PARTAYYY!

Fun Shoe

spankmeister posted:

Meh I caught on right away, the rest was just trying to mess with him.

Me too. I guess I just suck at trolling trolls

ZebraBlade
Mar 26, 2010

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

Cross posting from the 1911 megathread:

Well after 4 years of USPSA with easily 2,000 draws and reholstering and 20k + rounds the Taurus pt1911 functions really good still but looks like absolute poo poo. Holster wear up the wazoo, the safety was black but is now half shiny silver from wear, same goes for other places. It has been retired from USPSA duty and will be my backup and fun gun 1911.

What does this all mean you ask? Well it is time to get it refinished!!!! but.... I have no clue where to start. I am not going to DIY it, just looking for how to have it done (leaning towards gunkote, dont know of other options) and where to send it to be done and what color(s) to have it finished. So let me break it down

1. What do I need to know about having my 1911 refinished?
2. What kind of refinishing options do I have?
3. Where can this be done?
4. What colors can be done?
5. What colors does TFR suggest? I dont know if I want to do a FDE or tan scheme or stick with black and do the parts a different color.

Any and (almost)all input is welcome

Sgt. Shaved Balls
Sep 6, 2006

by Lowtax


Using modern materials isn't it feasible to manufacture a 7.62x25 cylinder for a nagant revolver that can handle the pressures? Or manufacture one that is at a lower capacity as usual so it has more metal between chambers?

Why can't this be done? I know modifying an original cylinder can have dangerous outcomes but I'm talking a completely new one.

bongwizzard
May 19, 2005

Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"

Grimey Drawer

Sgt. Shaved Balls posted:

Using modern materials isn't it feasible to manufacture a 7.62x25 cylinder for a nagant revolver that can handle the pressures? Or manufacture one that is at a lower capacity as usual so it has more metal between chambers?

Why can't this be done? I know modifying an original cylinder can have dangerous outcomes but I'm talking a completely new one.

That is reaching for the stars, pressure wise. I understand the urge for cheap ammo but even if it could be done the cost would kinda defeat the purpose.

Now getting a 7.62x25 cylinder for one of those new .327fed Blackhawks might be cool.

Ron Mexico
Dec 31, 2004



bunnielab posted:

That is reaching for the stars, pressure wise. I understand the urge for cheap ammo but even if it could be done the cost would kinda defeat the purpose.


Not to mention 7.62 Tok is kind of a wacky shaped cartridge to try and make a cylinder for. You'd probably have to use moonclips. I'd rather have a Nagant revolver with a .32 H&R cylinder or yeah, even .327 federal.

Ron Mexico fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Jul 28, 2010

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

ZebraBlade posted:

2. What kind of refinishing options do I have?
3. Where can this be done?
4. What colors can be done?

The pawn shop down behind the topless bar in Colorado Springs will Duracoat anything in any color you want, so I'd imagine you can find a local gunsmith to do it. I'm not sure of the difference between Duracoat and Gunkote, though. There's always the more classic options of rebluing it or having it parked.

bongwizzard
May 19, 2005

Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"

Grimey Drawer

Ron Mexico posted:

Not to mention 7.62 Tok is kind of a wacky shaped cartridge to try and make a cylinder for. You'd probably have to use moonclips. I'd rather have a Nagant revolver with a .32 H&R cylinder or yeah, even .327 federal.

Eh, iirc the Nagant uses an ejector rod so moonclips wound not be an issue. However, the only redeeming thing about the Nagant is the cheap price and the relevantly expensive ammo makes that pointless as well.

Sadly, while they are neat little guns they are impractical to shoot and there is no simple or cheap way to change that.

Illegal Clown
Feb 18, 2004



Ron Mexico posted:

Not to mention 7.62 Tok is kind of a wacky shaped cartridge to try and make a cylinder for. You'd probably have to use moonclips. I'd rather have a Nagant revolver with a .32 H&R cylinder or yeah, even .327 federal.

Yeah, I think the shape is the biggest problem. I just compared the two, along with .32ACP, and the Tok. ammo is about a millimeter thicker because of its tapered case. There's just not enough room on one of those cylinders. Those seven shots are crammed in there as much as possible.

bunnielab posted:

Eh, iirc the Nagant uses an ejector rod so moonclips wound not be an issue. However, the only redeeming thing about the Nagant is the cheap price and the relevantly expensive ammo makes that pointless as well.

Sadly, while they are neat little guns they are impractical to shoot and there is no simple or cheap way to change that.

I don't know if you've checked lately, but Nagant ammo is about half the price of what it was a few years ago. The first box I bought was like $.75 or more per round. Today it's less than $.50. I just checked AIM surplus and it was $.44. That's not too bad. Yes, 7.62 Tok is cheaper, especially surplus, and 9mm Luger and Mak are WAY cheaper than 7.62 Nagant, but I'm also not mag dumping half a box of the stuff in five seconds. It's a slow to load, slow to shoot gun, so you don't go through as much ammo. The guns are a lot of fun though and don't be turned off from them if you can get one for a good price.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



bunnielab posted:

Eh, iirc the Nagant uses an ejector rod so moonclips wound not be an issue. However, the only redeeming thing about the Nagant is the cheap price and the relevantly expensive ammo makes that pointless as well.

Sadly, while they are neat little guns they are impractical to shoot and there is no simple or cheap way to change that.

Ammo for the Nagant is about ~$.45/rd after shipping as long as you buy more than a box at a time and order online. I really wish that people would stop over-exaggerating how much it costs to shoot Nagant pistols. No, it's not .22LR or 7.62TOK cheap, but it's no more expensive than .44 or .357. Hell, that's only about double what 9mm costs if you buy the absolutely cheapest poo poo you can find online, and is anyone going to be putting the kind of round count through a 100 year old Russian pistol (or at least 100 year old design - your specific gun could be from the 30s or 40s I guess) that you would put through a Glock or Sig?

This is why I find all the conversion cylinders (or shooting improper ammo that just happens to fit and fire relatively safely) so silly. The amount of money you save with the cheaper ammo is negligible compared to a conversion cylinder, and shooting the wrong ammo leads to the accuracy going to poo poo - and at that point why the hell are you firing it anyways? Why not just buy a cap gun at that point?

Sgt. Shaved Balls
Sep 6, 2006

by Lowtax


I don't want 7.62tok because its cheap, I like it because its 7.62tok. It's bad rear end as hell.

Also why is making a bottle-necked chamber for a revolver unfeasible? (disregarding pressure stuff)

quote:

That is reaching for the stars, pressure wise.

Even if it was made of titanium steel alloy?

skul-gun
Dec 24, 2001
I got this account for Xmas.

Sgt. Shaved Balls posted:

Also why is making a bottle-necked chamber for a revolver unfeasible? (disregarding pressure stuff)

I don't know about unfeasible:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.44-40_Winchester
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38-40_Winchester

just not much interest, I suppose.

Illegal Clown
Feb 18, 2004



Cyrano4747 posted:

This is why I find all the conversion cylinders (or shooting improper ammo that just happens to fit and fire relatively safely) so silly. The amount of money you save with the cheaper ammo is negligible compared to a conversion cylinder, and shooting the wrong ammo leads to the accuracy going to poo poo - and at that point why the hell are you firing it anyways? Why not just buy a cap gun at that point?

At one point it made sense when the right ammo was not available, but since it is now there is no reason. Me, I've thought about getting another cylinder (not seriously) because I also shoot .32APC, but the cylinder costs as much as I paid for the gun. I can buy a couple more boxes of ammo with that money.

Yeah, the Nagant just isn't a fire all day every weekend gun. It's a fire seven shots then pass to all your buddies to shoot type of gun.

Sgt. Shaved Balls posted:

I don't want 7.62tok because its cheap, I like it because its 7.62tok. It's bad rear end as hell.

Also why is making a bottle-necked chamber for a revolver unfeasible? (disregarding pressure stuff)


Even if it was made of titanium steel alloy?

On the Nagant, there is only like a two or three millimeter thick wall between chambers. The Tok. ammo is thicker than the Nagant, so it wouldn't fit and there's no room to make more space. Maybe you could make a six shot cylinder but would have to work on the timing. It's just not worth it.

Detective Thompson
Nov 9, 2007

Sammy Davis Jr. Jr. is also in repose.

Out of curiosity, would current production 7mm Mauser be safe to fire in an old rifle (old=1894 or so)? Is it like current commercial 8mm Mauser, where it's loaded to older specs to be safe in the antique rifles?

Sgt. Shaved Balls
Sep 6, 2006

by Lowtax


Illegal Clown posted:

At one point it made sense when the right ammo was not available, but since it is now there is no reason. Me, I've thought about getting another cylinder (not seriously) because I also shoot .32APC, but the cylinder costs as much as I paid for the gun. I can buy a couple more boxes of ammo with that money.

Yeah, the Nagant just isn't a fire all day every weekend gun. It's a fire seven shots then pass to all your buddies to shoot type of gun.


On the Nagant, there is only like a two or three millimeter thick wall between chambers. The Tok. ammo is thicker than the Nagant, so it wouldn't fit and there's no room to make more space. Maybe you could make a six shot cylinder but would have to work on the timing. It's just not worth it.

I smoke blunts everyday for my locked away homies.

Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

Sgt. Shaved Balls posted:

I smoke blunts everyday for my locked away homies.

i love your posting

Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

it has blossomed

Gtab
Dec 9, 2003
I am a horrible person, disregard my posts.

like a flower



Sgt. Shaved Balls
Sep 6, 2006

by Lowtax


Gtab posted:

like a flower





My life
came like dew
disappears like dew.
All of Naniwa
is dream after dream.
-Toyotomi Hideyoshi

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008








Man this thread is becoming like BYOB lite or something.

e: Not that that's necessarily a bad thing.

hangedman
Dec 20, 2003

Fish out of water

Sgt. Shaved Balls posted:

Also why is making a bottle-necked chamber for a revolver unfeasible? (disregarding pressure stuff)

Check out the .22 Jet. It was a tapered, bottlenecked cartridge that S&W chambered in their N-frames that had functioning problems out the wazoo, so they discontinued it. I don't think too many people have been wanting to repeat that mistake. Basically what would happen is that firing full-power loads would make the brass back out of the chamber and lock up the cylinder.

bongwizzard
May 19, 2005

Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"

Grimey Drawer

Even $.40 a round is too much. I wouldn't spend that much on .44 or .357 either. Reloading is the only way I can afford to shoot as much as like and due to the funky rear end case and bullets Nagant ammo isnt really worth it to reload either.

They are cool little guns but atleast to me, they arnt worth the expense or bother to shoot when there are a bunch of other weird guns out there that I could afford to shoot more often.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



bunnielab posted:

Even $.40 a round is too much. I wouldn't spend that much on .44 or .357 either. Reloading is the only way I can afford to shoot as much as like and due to the funky rear end case and bullets Nagant ammo isnt really worth it to reload either.


So, do you own any full-sized rifles at all that aren't in x54r?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply