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Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Bigass Moth posted:

I need an answer quickly - a guy I'm selling a gun to send my payment via PistolPay. I've never used the service and I want to make sure it's legit.

FUUUUUUCK NO. I'd never heard of them before, but from what I'm reading I don't like it.

A) don't forget that GPay crashed and died not too long ago and lost a bunch of money in the process.

B) PistolPay is basically designed to give all the protections to the buyer. It functions like an escrow service, allowing the buyer an inspection period within which they can reject the payment and get their money back. Do you really want a person you've never met to have your gun AND the ability to just take his money back?

C) I'm seeing fees that would make even PP blush.

gently caress that noise, go with the gold standard of the postal money order. It's a touch riskier as a buyer but it's a billion times safer as a seller. I'm really, really hoping that the various credit card readers for iPhones and the like make private CC gun sales more common, as ideally that's what I'd use as a buyer just because of the ability to do a charge back if you get totally dicked over.

No way in blue hell that I'd use Pistol Pay until it is way more established and clear that it's not going to just shut down. Even then I'd be nervous about that escrow bullshit, and I'd be unhappy about those ridiculous fees and make the buyer eat them.

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Bigass Moth
Mar 6, 2004

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.

he knows...


Thanks, I have literally never heard of it before and the buyer is being super paranoid about sending an MO so I may have to talk him off a ledge.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



Bigass Moth posted:

Thanks, I have literally never heard of it before and the buyer is being super paranoid about sending an MO so I may have to talk him off a ledge.

Ugh. I hate people like that.

Here's the thing: unless the gun you are selling is such a bizarro niche item that only three people in the US want it, or you're raping this guy to the tune of double the gun's value, or you need the gun sold yesterday to pay rent or whatever, you hold all the cards. Tell the guy that PMOs are awesome and that it's how basically the entire US does gun purchases on the internet and if he won't do that tell him to pound sand and find another buyer. One will come along.

I've had to deal with super paranoid buyers who think I'm going to run with their money and demand the most crazy loving escrow schemes in the world and it's never worth your time to talk to them. Inevitably they end up treating a $300 purchase like it needs the transactional security of a multi-million dollar international deal or something.

Sometimes the deal just isn't worth the hassle.

edit: have you tried selling it on the TFR classifieds yet? If I've got something I want to move fast and don't mind discounting it a few bucks that's generally a good place. As long as you aren't a complete lurker who no one's ever seen post people are really chill about things like trusting that you will put something in the mail if they give you their money.

Bigass Moth
Mar 6, 2004

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.

he knows...


Cyrano4747 posted:

Ugh. I hate people like that.

Here's the thing: unless the gun you are selling is such a bizarro niche item that only three people in the US want it, or you're raping this guy to the tune of double the gun's value, or you need the gun sold yesterday to pay rent or whatever, you hold all the cards. Tell the guy that PMOs are awesome and that it's how basically the entire US does gun purchases on the internet and if he won't do that tell him to pound sand and find another buyer. One will come along.

I've had to deal with super paranoid buyers who think I'm going to run with their money and demand the most crazy loving escrow schemes in the world and it's never worth your time to talk to them. Inevitably they end up treating a $300 purchase like it needs the transactional security of a multi-million dollar international deal or something.

Sometimes the deal just isn't worth the hassle.

edit: have you tried selling it on the TFR classifieds yet? If I've got something I want to move fast and don't mind discounting it a few bucks that's generally a good place. As long as you aren't a complete lurker who no one's ever seen post people are really chill about things like trusting that you will put something in the mail if they give you their money.

He is offering me about 50% more than I paid so I'll make the deal with him if possible. I'm in no hurry to sell really, it's just sitting in the safe taking up space.

Independence
Jul 11, 2006



Bigass Moth posted:

He is offering me about 50% more than I paid so I'll make the deal with him if possible. I'm in no hurry to sell really, it's just sitting in the safe taking up space.

He can pay for delivery notification and signature if he wants to buy it, About the best way to go with a money order.

I like turtles
Aug 6, 2009



Point out to him that if you gently caress with him on a postal money order, he could theoretically sic the postal inspectors on you for mail fraud and that's a level of poo poo nobody wants to deal with.

Bigass Moth
Mar 6, 2004

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.

he knows...


He backed out entirely. Some people are just too old/stupid to deal with this newfangled internet stuff.

BUSH 2112
Sep 17, 2012

I lie awake, staring out at the bleakness of Megadon.


I saw this old movie called Agent for HARM, and one of the spies in the film has a pistol with a magazine that pops out of the side of the grip, rather than the bottom of the grip like most semi-automatic pistols. Unfortunately, I can't get a screenshot that shows anything useful because the video is too low definition, and my Google-fu has entirely failed me. It's a mid-1960's movie, if that helps at all. I was just hoping someone had an idea of what it might be, I'm curious about the design.

Pitch
Jun 16, 2005

しらんけど


Probably something in the Sten/Sterling family.

Illegal Clown
Feb 18, 2004



BUSH 2112 posted:

I saw this old movie called Agent for HARM, and one of the spies in the film has a pistol with a magazine that pops out of the side of the grip, rather than the bottom of the grip like most semi-automatic pistols. Unfortunately, I can't get a screenshot that shows anything useful because the video is too low definition, and my Google-fu has entirely failed me. It's a mid-1960's movie, if that helps at all. I was just hoping someone had an idea of what it might be, I'm curious about the design.

The only gun I remember in that movie (MST3K episode) was the air gun they used to shoot the spores out of. There is a scene where the guy is taking it apart and snaps the grip back on the side.

Adult Sword Owner
Jun 19, 2011

u deserve diploma for sublime comedy expertise


Illegal Clown posted:

The only gun I remember in that movie (MST3K episode) was the air gun they used to shoot the spores out of. There is a scene where the guy is taking it apart and snaps the grip back on the side.

Also sweaters.

hagie
Apr 5, 2004

All sensitivity has long ago atrophied

Alright I think I am officially getting hosed over by my gun shop. Need some direction on my next step.

January 24th or so, I made an order for a Howa, thinking I might be able to slip a bolt-gun through the panic. I paid in cash, a little north of $500 (may be a portion of my mistake, but I received a substantial discount for paying cash). After months of "its still showing pending," "oh the FedEx guy hasn't come yet," "oh it should be here this week, we are starting to get guns trickling in from the distributor!" I attributed much of it to the panic, and was very understanding.

On April 25th we both decided it was time to cancel. He was probably tired of my calling, and I feel I can take my money elsewhere and get what I want or something near it elsewhere. Last Friday I went in expecting it as he told me he would "bird-dog it" as I was going to PSA that weekend. Money was a no show, he said it would be in this week.

I have not heard from him as of yet, and intended to show up tomorrow to demand my refund. My question is what do I need to do to expedite this? This might be a little far, but do I need to consider a lawyer (probably pissing more $ away)? Do I need to contact the local whistle-blower news station? I am considering a BBB complaint, as well as tossing some claims out on social media. I do not know of a business that takes over 2 weeks to get money back for a refund. I am at a loss on what direction to take.

tangy yet delightful
Sep 13, 2005





A lawyer will be a waste of money. The other options (really for revenge/warning others) could be useful.

Maybe you could pay a lawyer $1-200 bucks to write a letter threatening legal action and hope that the owner doesn't call your bluff (if he does then fold, a court battle over $500 isn't worth it).

MazelTovCocktail
Jun 23, 2012

Gritty's gonna cut you.


Totally TWISTED posted:

A lawyer will be a waste of money. The other options (really for revenge/warning others) could be useful.

Maybe you could pay a lawyer $1-200 bucks to write a letter threatening legal action and hope that the owner doesn't call your bluff (if he does then fold, a court battle over $500 isn't worth it).

This is possibly your best option if you need to get to the lawyer stage. Still try for the refund first at the shop,you may get lucky. You can always threaten to hand out flyers in front of the store detailing your problem. That's more high level escalation, but it did get my mom a new car from GM once.

hagie
Apr 5, 2004

All sensitivity has long ago atrophied

I have this feeling that he was ponzi-styling his purchases. Using these funds to order this, then the next buyer comes in and he uses those funds to fund the last. Or he was super lazy and never actually ordered it, even after my calling.

That is just a feeling, and how my luck usually goes.

Steeltalon
Feb 14, 2012

Perps were uncooperative.




hagie posted:

I have this feeling that he was ponzi-styling his purchases. Using these funds to order this, then the next buyer comes in and he uses those funds to fund the last. Or he was super lazy and never actually ordered it, even after my calling.

That is just a feeling, and how my luck usually goes.

How firm were you with him? Did you demand your money back and just let him give you another bullshit excuse? From your post it sounds like you just let him get away with another excuse and left. Go in there tomorrow, ask for you rifle and if he says it's not there, demand your money back and don't leave until you get it.

hagie
Apr 5, 2004

All sensitivity has long ago atrophied

Steeltalon posted:

How firm were you with him? Did you demand your money back and just let him give you another bullshit excuse? From your post it sounds like you just let him get away with another excuse and left. Go in there tomorrow, ask for you rifle and if he says it's not there, demand your money back and don't leave until you get it.

well I know its not there. Tomorrow is going to be my last stand. I am anticipating a "I haven't gotten it back from the distributor yet" that's what gets me tripped up on being firm. I'm taking him on his word, knowing it was "ordered" from a distributor. Not sure what proof I can ask for to verify this.

Oscar Wilde Bunch
Jun 12, 2012



Grimey Drawer

hagie posted:

Alright I think I am officially getting hosed over by my gun shop. Need some direction on my next step.

January 24th or so, I made an order for a Howa, thinking I might be able to slip a bolt-gun through the panic. I paid in cash, a little north of $500 (may be a portion of my mistake, but I received a substantial discount for paying cash). After months of "its still showing pending," "oh the FedEx guy hasn't come yet," "oh it should be here this week, we are starting to get guns trickling in from the distributor!" I attributed much of it to the panic, and was very understanding.

On April 25th we both decided it was time to cancel. He was probably tired of my calling, and I feel I can take my money elsewhere and get what I want or something near it elsewhere. Last Friday I went in expecting it as he told me he would "bird-dog it" as I was going to PSA that weekend. Money was a no show, he said it would be in this week.

I have not heard from him as of yet, and intended to show up tomorrow to demand my refund. My question is what do I need to do to expedite this? This might be a little far, but do I need to consider a lawyer (probably pissing more $ away)? Do I need to contact the local whistle-blower news station? I am considering a BBB complaint, as well as tossing some claims out on social media. I do not know of a business that takes over 2 weeks to get money back for a refund. I am at a loss on what direction to take.

Small Claims Court, yo.

$85 I think to file. You can use a lawyer, but I doubt he'd pay a lawyer more than the cost of the gun to lose a case.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

hagie posted:

well I know its not there. Tomorrow is going to be my last stand. I am anticipating a "I haven't gotten it back from the distributor yet" that's what gets me tripped up on being firm. I'm taking him on his word, knowing it was "ordered" from a distributor. Not sure what proof I can ask for to verify this.

Tell him to show you a dated copy of the order or invoice. If he can't come up with that, it never happened. Or if you know who the distributor is, you could contact them directly to verify that the order was placed.

hagie
Apr 5, 2004

All sensitivity has long ago atrophied

infrared35 posted:

Tell him to show you a dated copy of the order or invoice. If he can't come up with that, it never happened. Or if you know who the distributor is, you could contact them directly to verify that the order was placed.

hopefully there is an online trail. I believe it was ordered via distributor website.

But seriously, 2 weeks is MORE than enough time for a refund.

Pretty sure he screened my calls today too. As he has in the past.

my line: ring ring ring VM
Work land line: ring "gun shop..."

At least till he caught on to the number and stopped answering it. Then I called from the boss's cell phone...

Considering sending him an email tonight giving him fair warning that he has till 5pm Friday to have it in hand.

hagie fucked around with this message at 03:32 on May 10, 2013

Steeltalon
Feb 14, 2012

Perps were uncooperative.




infrared35 posted:

Tell him to show you a dated copy of the order or invoice. If he can't come up with that, it never happened. Or if you know who the distributor is, you could contact them directly to verify that the order was placed.

This seems like the most logical next step. I hope you have a receipt since you paid in cash. Please tell us you got a receipt.

e: he could honestly think he ordered it and never did.. :whoops:

hagie
Apr 5, 2004

All sensitivity has long ago atrophied

Steeltalon posted:

This seems like the most logical next step. I hope you have a receipt since you paid in cash. Please tell us you got a receipt.

e: he could honestly think he ordered it and never did.. :whoops:

Yea I have the cheap POS receipt he gave me for the order. I take it with me every time I go in.

MazelTovCocktail
Jun 23, 2012

Gritty's gonna cut you.


hagie posted:

Yea I have the cheap POS receipt he gave me for the order. I take it with me every time I go in.

You should scan and photocopy it too as a backup.

Adult Sword Owner
Jun 19, 2011

u deserve diploma for sublime comedy expertise


hagie posted:

well I know its not there. Tomorrow is going to be my last stand. I am anticipating a "I haven't gotten it back from the distributor yet" that's what gets me tripped up on being firm. I'm taking him on his word, knowing it was "ordered" from a distributor. Not sure what proof I can ask for to verify this.

"Give me my money back or I will call my lawyer right here in your shop"

If he stutters call the lawyer right there and then.

Oscar Wilde Bunch
Jun 12, 2012



Grimey Drawer

hagie posted:

Yea I have the cheap POS receipt he gave me for the order. I take it with me every time I go in.

If he still gives you the runaround do this.

Write an old fashioned certified letter. Include a copy of the receipt, and a recap of what's been going on. Document all the calls and visits you can. Document his responses. State that this letter indicates your intent to start legal action if the matter is not resolved in x number of days. State that you'll file action in small claims court demanding the refund plus filing and legal fees, plus an amount to compensate you for wasting time on this. State the available courses of action necessary to satisfy you. If you have a family lawyer or something indicate that he's been copied on the letter.

After X days file action in small claims court.

You'll find it resolved quite quickly.

IANAL, but I do work for them.

Unskilled Labour
Jul 23, 2009


Do you have a state or federal consumer protection agency? If so, they'd be another place to go.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009




Bleak Gremlin

My understanding of the Better Business Bureau, the US' vague equivalent to our ACCC is that it is at best a toothless waste of time and at worst a syndicate for legitimate companies to pay what amounts to protection money to, in order to not bad mouth them.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Memento1979 posted:

My understanding of the Better Business Bureau, the US' vague equivalent to our ACCC is that it is at best a toothless waste of time and at worst a syndicate for legitimate companies to pay what amounts to protection money to, in order to not bad mouth them.

Yup.

Unskilled Labour
Jul 23, 2009


Memento1979 posted:

My understanding of the Better Business Bureau, the US' vague equivalent to our ACCC is that it is at best a toothless waste of time and at worst a syndicate for legitimate companies to pay what amounts to protection money to, in order to not bad mouth them.



I love the ACCC, especially whenever they bitchslap scammers, Telstra or any other major corporation.

OWLS!
Sep 17, 2009

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


E; this isn't the airgun thread.

Memento
Aug 25, 2009




Bleak Gremlin

Sweet airgun. You should post it somewhere other than the general question thread

E: Dammit!

Oscar Wilde Bunch
Jun 12, 2012



Grimey Drawer

Again, Small Claims Court. It's entire purpose is to handle these types of problems. It's inexpensive, and they will help you get your case filed.

Don't dick with the BBB, no theatrics in store. Calm, professional, documented.

If you don't resolve it today, do what I said above. Write up a demand letter with a summary of the problem, document your repeated attempts to fix it, your demands, and what can be done to resolve it. Make sure to mention that if a case gets filed the price to resolve it goes up, since you'll want him to cover your filing fees and compensation for taking time out of your life to deal with his stupidity. Keep a copy, send it certified. It'll get resolved fast.

The guy isn't going to want to pay a lawyer $300 an hour to defend a suit that he'll lose. He's not even going to want to take the time out of running his business to deal with a court hearing.

I can't stess enough how easy and productive this can be. Small Claims' entire reason for existing is to handle this type of problem.

Here's a link to what I think is your Madistrate's Court, if you have any questions call and talk to the clerk.

http://www.yorkcountygov.com/departments/Magistrate/Magistrate-RockHill/default.aspx

Oscar Wilde Bunch fucked around with this message at 15:54 on May 10, 2013

Herr Tog
Jun 18, 2011



Grimey Drawer

Some good advise ITT

hagie
Apr 5, 2004

All sensitivity has long ago atrophied

T minus 5 minutes or so till I make my case.

Edit: loving closed till Tuesday. At some show in Greenville.

Looks like its time for a warning email. Then the intent letter I suppose?

hagie fucked around with this message at 22:16 on May 10, 2013

Bloody Queef
Mar 22, 2012

by zen death robot


This might be more of a Gun Control thread question, but it's kind of general.

Let's say you're in a state that just banned magazines larger than 10 rounds. And they allow grandfathering and you have a bunch of 30 round magazines. Are you covered if you go to another state to shoot on a range with your 30 round mags, then bring them back home? Or once you cross the state line with your grandfathered mags are they no longer grandfathered? This may be entirely dependent on the state and more details needed, just kind of a thought exercise.

TACTICAL SANDALS
Nov 6, 2009

click clack POW, officer down

I thought there was a MD shooters thread but I can't seem to find it... I live in PA and my parents have some woods property in MD. We're going down this weekend and I'd like to do some shooting on their land but just wanted to clarify what was and was not legal for me to bring:

VZ58: Doesn't seem to be listed as an "assault weapon," some sites say it's ok? Cool to bring in 30rd mags?
.22 pistol with suppressor seems to be okay?
Handgun with >10 round mags?
AR15? (I mostly use 20rd mags)

I'm assuming .22 rifles and shotguns are probably fine, right?

vvvvv Awesome, thanks!

TACTICAL SANDALS fucked around with this message at 23:56 on May 10, 2013

Independence
Jul 11, 2006



TACTICAL SANDALS posted:

I thought there was a MD shooters thread but I can't seem to find it... I live in PA and my parents have some woods property in MD. We're going down this weekend and I'd like to do some shooting on their land but just wanted to clarify what was and was not legal for me to bring:

VZ58: Doesn't seem to be listed as an "assault weapon," some sites say it's ok? Cool to bring in 30rd mags?
.22 pistol with suppressor seems to be okay?
Handgun with >10 round mags?
AR15? (I mostly use 20rd mags)

I'm assuming .22 rifles and shotguns are probably fine, right?

You can bring everything on th list. The 20 round thing is only for purchasing or selling mags in state.

Oscar Wilde Bunch
Jun 12, 2012



Grimey Drawer

hagie posted:

T minus 5 minutes or so till I make my case.

Edit: loving closed till Tuesday. At some show in Greenville.

Looks like its time for a warning email. Then the intent letter I suppose?

I wouldn't bother with the email, just go in. If that doesn't resolve send the demand letter. Remember, no emotion, just the facts.

hagie
Apr 5, 2004

All sensitivity has long ago atrophied

Iron Tusk posted:

I wouldn't bother with the email, just go in. If that doesn't resolve send the demand letter. Remember, no emotion, just the facts.

I'll keep with the advice thanks. I posted an ambiguous scenario on Facebook and all of them wanted me to get on the news.

My big play I decided to go with was "I am not doing business with the distributor, I am doing business with you, therefore YOU are to satisfy the return. Then you get reimbursed by the distributor." I hate I had a good plan in place for what I was to say, and then couldn't use it RIGHT THEN.

I got all adrenaline-d up. You would think for a 6'4" dude I would be able assert myself. I don't have a problem talking/dealing with people, just in these scenarios I immediately turn into a little bitch and just lay down and take it. I've only used my size for intimidation once, and that was in college on a 5' art teacher.

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Oscar Wilde Bunch
Jun 12, 2012



Grimey Drawer

hagie posted:

I'll keep with the advice thanks. I posted an ambiguous scenario on Facebook and all of them wanted me to get on the news.

My big play I decided to go with was "I am not doing business with the distributor, I am doing business with you, therefore YOU are to satisfy the return. Then you get reimbursed by the distributor." I hate I had a good plan in place for what I was to say, and then couldn't use it RIGHT THEN.

I got all adrenaline-d up. You would think for a 6'4" dude I would be able assert myself. I don't have a problem talking/dealing with people, just in these scenarios I immediately turn into a little bitch and just lay down and take it. I've only used my size for intimidation once, and that was in college on a 5' art teacher.

I had a similar situation when I was into competitive M:tG (shut up) and I had won some preorder sets. There was a huge demand and an understandable delay, then it because unreasonable, and the guy stopped communicating with me. I don't think he was being shady, just that he had too many pre sales on something he couldn't et inventory for. Anyway, PayPal wouldn't help me, so I sent him a demand letter stating that I was intending to file a suit against him, and since a small claims judgment in SC would be hard to enforce, that I was filing it in his district in CA. I told him I'd be asking for my money, plus airfare and lodging for me to appear at the hearing, plus filing fees, plus compensation for lost work. And that since eBay is supposed to be a binding contract that I might ask for punitive damages as well. Some of that was trolling, some of it was serious.

I got my merchandise 36 hours after he received the letter.

Oscar Wilde Bunch fucked around with this message at 03:14 on May 11, 2013

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