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Pees With Boner
Jun 7, 2005

by Y Kant Ozma Post


Detective Thompson posted:

I think either of those would be a fine choice. The best thing is to go to a range and try them both out and see which one feels better. Some people have a problem with the grip angle of the Glock, but you seem like you have at least handled a few Glocks before and would be aware of the grip. So really, I think it's up to you. I think the Glock would be a bit cheaper (don't be afraid to buy used), but a good used P226 probably wouldn't be all that expensive, either. If it were me, I'd go for the Sig, but that's just my opinion. They're both fine guns. As an aside, does the company hiring you not really give you a firearm? Are they at least going to subsidize all or part of the cost of the gun?

They give me a small subsidy since I'm doing training through them, if I wasn't then I think they just have an approved list you have to go by. You might be surprised how half-assed even armed security companies can be.

I'm leaning towards the P226 also although I can't say I have any good reason having never fired it. I'll find a range with both at some point and compare them, good suggestion

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Ophannin
Mar 11, 2010


Pees With Boner posted:

I'm leaning towards the P226 also although I can't say I have any good reason having never fired it. I'll find a range with both at some point and compare them, good suggestion

Between those guns, as others have said, it's entirely personal preference based on which feels more comfortable. After a "let's test a wide variety of guns as potential CCW/Home Defense weapons" trip to the range with the girlfriend, I walked away loving Sigs even more, and she got a Glock 19.

Space Gopher about C&R Licenses posted:

but the ATF can't show up at your door and demand to go over your records and inventory whenever they please.

I was previously under the impression that they could. Can someone clear this up for me? I haven't dug into C&Rs enough yet, as I don't plan to apply for one until next year.

PirateDentist
Mar 28, 2006

Sailing The Seven Seas Searching For Scurvy

Ophannin posted:

Between those guns, as others have said, it's entirely personal preference based on which feels more comfortable. After a "let's test a wide variety of guns as potential CCW/Home Defense weapons" trip to the range with the girlfriend, I walked away loving Sigs even more, and she got a Glock 19.


I was previously under the impression that they could. Can someone clear this up for me? I haven't dug into C&Rs enough yet, as I don't plan to apply for one until next year.

Unless they have a warrant the following apples.

CFR 478.23 (c)

quote:


(c) Any ATF officer, without having reasonable cause to believe a violation of the Act has occurred or that evidence of the violation may be found and without demonstrating such cause before a Federal magistrate or obtaining from the magistrate a warrant authorizing entry, may enter during hours of operation the premises, including places of storage, of any licensed collector for the purpose of inspecting or examining the records, documents, firearms, and ammunition referred to in paragraph (a) of this section (1) for ensuring compliance with the recordkeeping requirements of this part not more than once during any 12-month period or (2) when such inspection or examination may be required for determining the disposition of one or more particular firearms in the course of a bona fide criminal investigation. At the election of the licensed collector, the annual inspection permitted by this paragraph shall be performed at the ATF office responsible for conducting such inspection in closest proximity to the collectors premises.

From what I've heard, because C&R holders don't have business hours, they just call and arrange an appointment to show up. They do have the right to see your records and collection. But they won't just show up and break in to try and inspect your guns like so many (paranoid) people think will happen.

Ophannin
Mar 11, 2010


PirateDentist posted:

Helpful :words:

Ah, I see. That makes sense. I guess I wasn't thinking too clearly about the distinction between "showing up whenever", and "they'll call you and ask (tell?)", which would be the logical requisite. :ughh:

On a separate note entirely, could anyone elaborate precisely on their gun cleaning regimen? When I started on guns, I got some vague instructions from my grandfather, and since then I've heard varying advice ranging from drastically over oiling guns, to nigh neglect, with little detail on the dos and don'ts. If it helps, I've got a Ruger Mark III, Savage Mark II, Sig Pro, and a Mosin to take care of.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



A Magical Unicorn posted:

From what I've read, since they aren't a major part like a receiver or barrel, and they're worth less then $100USD, then no paperwork is required. Or is there something I'm missing?

Annoyingly Brownells and the like don't stock these sights.

It's never as simple as that.

It seems like youve already read up, so my apologies if any of this is bit basic:

There's this thing called ITAR. Basically it's a list of poo poo the US gov't doesn't want getting exported because it is considered sensitive by the Department of Defense. All sorts of random poo poo is on there, from medical equipment that can be used to make biological nasties to some types of computers. Needless to say there's a gently caress ton of gun stuff on that list too.

I have no idea of what, exactly, is on the list, but suffice it to say it's a gently caress ton of stuff. Pretty much anything that can be considered a gun optic or sighting device is on there, more or less as a blanket way to try and keep random terroristic assholes and governments we don't like from buying aimpoints and trijicons and the like.

Along similar lines, it's almost impossible to get high cap magazines out of the US, evne to countries where they're legal, but it's not too hard to get rebuild kits (so say magpul followers, etc) out.

I'm sure you could get your sight out to Australia if you wanted, but all of the ways I can think of doing it are a touch grey-area, so it's up to you to poke around and figure that out on your own.

Sir Sidney Poitier
Aug 14, 2006

My favourite actor


Here is what might be a stupid question, but I don't know much about this sort of thing:

If you've got two projectiles which are identical in all ways except that one is, for example, twice the weight of the other and you fire them both at the same muzzle velocity, will they both follow the same trajectory?

Uncle Caveman
Jun 16, 2006

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.


I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue :saddowns:

Uncle Caveman fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Sep 25, 2010

Sir Sidney Poitier
Aug 14, 2006

My favourite actor


Uncle Caveman posted:

My basic understanding is that if the powder charge is the same for both, the heavier bullet will lose velocity and drop faster than the lighter bullet.

I don't think I'm talking about when the powder charge is the same - because surely that would result in a lesser muzzle velocity for the heavier projectile. I'm talking about a charge that would result in them leaving the barrel at exactly the same velocity.

LavistaSays
Dec 25, 2005



Uncle Caveman posted:

My basic understanding is that if the powder charge is the same for both, the heavier bullet will lose velocity and drop faster than the lighter bullet.

I think I know what you're meaning to say, but shouldn't it be inferred that both projectiles will in fact drop at the same rate, both being governed equally by the same law of gravity?

The heavier bullet will have a lower muzzle velocity yet retain that velocity better over distance. The lighter bullet will have a higher muzzle velocity but will bleed off velocity faster because it has less momentum.


E: I just saw that^. If muzzle velocity is equal the heavier bullet will retain its velocity further then the lighter weight bullet. Both would drop at the same rate for the reason I mentioned above, but the heavier bullet would be however many X yards further down-range because it will be going notably faster then the light-weight bullet after several hundred yards.

LavistaSays fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Sep 25, 2010

Pitch
Jun 16, 2005

しらんけど


Anjow posted:

If you've got two projectiles which are identical in all ways except that one is, for example, twice the weight of the other and you fire them both at the same muzzle velocity, will they both follow the same trajectory?
The heavier bullet will shoot slightly flatter, because air drag will affect it slightly less.

foghorn
Oct 8, 2006

Haters gunna hate.


Uncle Caveman posted:

My basic understanding is that if the powder charge is the same for both, the heavier bullet will lose velocity and drop faster than the lighter bullet.

e: duh, I completely misread your question. I saw "projectile is identical" but my brain read "cartridge is identical" :downs:

:sigh: physics...

Neither bullet will drop faster. No matter how heavy an object is, they will always drop at exactly the same rate. Identical (in terms of BC) rounds traveling at identical speeds will "drop" identical distances and have identical trajectories.

The problem you're having is that you remember that light bullets aren't accurate at distance. And you're right, but not for the right reasons. A 55gr round will make it the full 1,000 yards down MCB Quantico's range (and faster than a 90gr round), but it'll probably hit the target 3 stands down because of the wind pushing it there. A slower 90gr round will require a little more elevation, but it'll at least be on paper despite a crosswind.

HERE is Hornaday's ballistics calculator running my current load. HERE is a hypothetical 25gr round with the same properties and velocity. Notice that the come-up does not change.

tl;dr: Round weight does not contribute to drop. Velocity does.

Dogbrisket
Jun 10, 2009



What sort of lifespan could I expect from magazines made from polymer? Is there any sort of timeframe in which the plastic would become brittle enough to cease to be serviceable?

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



What's the TFR hivemind opinion on the GSG-1911 pistols? I've heard the Chiappa ones are pretty awful...but internet reviewers seem to like them. What's the scoop on them? It's going to be entirely a cheap plinker, not a target or hunting pistol of any kind.

widefault
Mar 16, 2009


IuniusBrutus posted:

What's the TFR hivemind opinion on the GSG-1911 pistols? I've heard the Chiappa ones are pretty awful...but internet reviewers seem to like them. What's the scoop on them? It's going to be entirely a cheap plinker, not a target or hunting pistol of any kind.

The GSGs are basically conversion kits on a semi-standard 1911 frame. Something like 88% of the parts are the same, but while the slide and barrell can be put on a regular 1911 frame, you can't put a .45 barrel and slide on the GSG frame.

I don't think anyone here has actually shot one, but I know I'd like to give one a try.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



widefault posted:

The GSGs are basically conversion kits on a semi-standard 1911 frame. Something like 88% of the parts are the same, but while the slide and barrell can be put on a regular 1911 frame, you can't put a .45 barrel and slide on the GSG frame.

I don't think anyone here has actually shot one, but I know I'd like to give one a try.

GSG's reputation is also mixed, to say the least, when it comes to the quality of their products.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


IuniusBrutus posted:

What's the TFR hivemind opinion on the GSG-1911 pistols? I've heard the Chiappa ones are pretty awful...but internet reviewers seem to like them. What's the scoop on them? It's going to be entirely a cheap plinker, not a target or hunting pistol of any kind.

I can't see a single reason to own one. As far as I know there is no cheap .22lr 1911 thats worth buying, even as a plinker. It's really hard to beat a Browning Buckmark here unless you just gotta have a 1911 style gun.

kuffs
Mar 29, 2007

Projectile Dysfunction


widefault posted:

The GSGs are basically conversion kits on a semi-standard 1911 frame. Something like 88% of the parts are the same, but while the slide and barrell can be put on a regular 1911 frame, you can't put a .45 barrel and slide on the GSG frame.

I don't think anyone here has actually shot one, but I know I'd like to give one a try.

ATI is the worst importer. Please don't be tempted.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Cyrano4747 posted:

GSG's reputation is also mixed, to say the least, when it comes to the quality of their products.


FWIW I handled a GSG 22lr mp5 looking thing in a pawnshop today. It felt like a 10/22 dress up kit. It was solid plastic and felt oddly light/balanced. It legitimately feels like a toy, maybe even a bargain bin airsoft gun. I'd pick one up for 200 or so, maybe, just to gently caress around with. This one was priced well above that at 600 dollars, so I just put it back.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Behind every great engineer is someone just hoping the "genius" doesn't bankrupt everyone.



QuarkMartial posted:

FWIW I handled a GSG 22lr mp5 looking thing in a pawnshop today. It felt like a 10/22 dress up kit. It was solid plastic and felt oddly light/balanced. It legitimately feels like a toy, maybe even a bargain bin airsoft gun. I'd pick one up for 200 or so, maybe, just to gently caress around with. This one was priced well above that at 600 dollars, so I just put it back.

Talk to European shooters about GSG and you tend to get some loving HUGE eye rolling. There is a lot of stuff in the market out here that we don't get in the US, and apparently most of it us utter poo poo.

I've heard from more than one person that the GSG .22LR AK47, for example, is a hilariously bad chunk of poo poo.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Cyrano4747 posted:

Talk to European shooters about GSG and you tend to get some loving HUGE eye rolling. There is a lot of stuff in the market out here that we don't get in the US, and apparently most of it us utter poo poo.

I've heard from more than one person that the GSG .22LR AK47, for example, is a hilariously bad chunk of poo poo.


Like I said, it really felt like a toy. And the "maybe" in my post is a very strong maybe. I mean, if I were to buy one I wouldn't expect a whole lot out of it. Wouldn't laud it as a great gun either.

Ygolonac
Nov 26, 2007

pre:
*************
CLUTCH  NIXON
*************

The Hero We Need


Cyrano4747 posted:

I've heard from more than one person that the GSG .22LR AK47, for example, is a hilariously bad chunk of poo poo.

I've handled one in the store, and it certainly *feels* like a cheap hunk of poo poo. I'm also pretty sure it's been the same one not selling since they brought it in.

DELETED
Nov 14, 2004
Disgruntled

I picked one of those MP5 clones at a gun show and was reminded of my $20 airsoft shotgun. It even had a comical movie star rattle

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



That's sort of disappointing. I've never seen one in a store, only a Chiappa-1911 which I don't like...I wasn't about to drop $300 on one from AIM without good opinion of it.

Ninja Rope
Oct 22, 2005

Wee.


Ygolonac posted:

I've handled one in the store, and it certainly *feels* like a cheap hunk of poo poo. I'm also pretty sure it's been the same one not selling since they brought it in.

I don't really know what people expect them to be. Like QuarkMartial said, it's a 22lr with a dress up kit on it. I've handled and shot most of the "tactical" 22's that have come out recently and they're all similarly light weight and plastic-y. It doesn't surprise me that they're not "heavy" or whatever metric people seem to expect from a 22lr, it surprises me that people still pay $500+ for them. I would have thought prices would have dropped from all the competition.

Advantage Arms supposedly makes the best 22lr kit for Glocks, and they also make a 1911 kit. I don't know of anyone that has ever used the 1911 kit, but if the Glock kits are as good as I've heard they might be worth researching.

Edit: Ciener also makes a 22lr kit for 1911's, but I hear he is / they are a pretty big douche.

Ninja Rope fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Sep 26, 2010

walrusman
Aug 4, 2006



Advantage Arms makes awesome Glock kits but I've heard their lead time is huge.

Ciener is a loving rear end in a top hat fuckface who should surrender control of his company over to someone who speaks a language other than fuckface.

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



Also Tactical Solutions is making a Glock .22 conversion kit that's supposed to be released any day now.

Ygolonac
Nov 26, 2007

pre:
*************
CLUTCH  NIXON
*************

The Hero We Need


Ninja Rope posted:

Advantage Arms supposedly makes the best 22lr kit for Glocks, and they also make a 1911 kit. I don't know of anyone that has ever used the 1911 kit, but if the Glock kits are as good as I've heard they might be worth researching.

Edit: Ciener also makes a 22lr kit for 1911's, but I hear he is / they are a pretty big douche.

I have an AdArms Standard (as opposed to the Target) model for the 1911, and I love it.

Quickie 1911 conversion rundown: Marvel is spendy and highly accurate; Tactical Solutions is spendy, not sure of the accuracy; AdArms is... mid-range, I'd say, for price, and is decently accurate (unless I'm shooting it); Kimber is about as low as non-import/Ceiner get. Ceiner the man is a dick, from all accounts, but his kits are usually decent, lower-priced units. (God forbid you need support.) Oh, and Colt made a bunch - the Ace is significantly better than the later Ace II, but you pay the pony tax. There were Argentinian-made Colt conversions as well, but I've not actually seen those for sale - apparently, they were license-built, just like the Sistema 1927s.

There's a few others - EAA had/has<?> one, and Wilson Combat as well. (Ceiner actually made some Kimber and Wilson units.) Kart used to make one that was highly regarded (at the time) for accuracy, and I think Marvel bought the rights to it.

Dedicated .22 1911s are more rare - Kimber and Colt. US PALM is building guns using a Marvel kit and Caspian frames, and those ain't cheap - list is $1500. Both the GSG and Chiappa guns are 1911-shaped, with some (not a lot of) parts compatibility. Armscor has a dedicated .22 listed, but the import status is still unknown, as is whether it's like the GSG/Chiappa or if it's an actual 1911. Supposedly, Umarex will be making a Colt-branded .22 1911, probably -shaped, and Umarex doesn't have a great rep.

It's not a cheap solution to owning a .22 handgun, compared to buying a Buckmark/Ruger. It does allow you to stick with the same feel and operation (other than recoil); if you swap the conversion on and off your centerfire pistol, it keeps the same trigger and controls as you normally use.

widefault
Mar 16, 2009


According to ATI, these are the parts that are interchangeable on the GSG 1911.

quote:

Barrel Bushing
Front & Rear Site
Hammer
Trigger
Grip Safety
the Whole Main Spring Housing
Thumb Safety
Sear
Disconnector
Sear Spring
Grip Panels (but not the screws because they're in metric)
Mag Release
Sear Pin
Hammer Pin
Plunger Tube
Plunger Spring

Now if there was a list of what the main differences are.

Detective Thompson
Nov 9, 2007

Sammy Davis Jr. Jr. is also in repose.

Does anyone happen to know how long (nose to base) a .32 S&W Long bullet is (not the whole round including the case, just the projectile)? Also, this may sound like a weird request, but does anyone have one or two fired pieces of the brass they might be able to send my way?

Gray Stormy
Dec 19, 2006



I just got my annual dividend from one of my stock portfolios and I am having a dilemma. I want to build/buy myself a good AR for 3 gunning, but I also want to buy a PSL. If I buy them both my wife will straight up murder me.

As of right now, I would probably put way more mileage on an AR and Im not sure how well I could preform with a PSL at competition(if at all). I think I may have just answered my own question, but if anyone wants to weigh in on the positives of the PSL, please do.

ShaiHulud
Dec 31, 2007


Secret Ooze posted:

if anyone wants to weigh in on the positives of the PSL, please do.

...





They're heavy, the balance is pretty bad, magazine capacity is limited to 10 unless you like to weld, and optics choices are laughable


That said, here's mine, but I'd never compete with it

MazeOfTzeentch
May 2, 2009

rip miso beno


Secret Ooze posted:

I just got my annual dividend from one of my stock portfolios and I am having a dilemma. I want to build/buy myself a good AR for 3 gunning, but I also want to buy a PSL. If I buy them both my wife will straight up murder me.

As of right now, I would probably put way more mileage on an AR and Im not sure how well I could preform with a PSL at competition(if at all). I think I may have just answered my own question, but if anyone wants to weigh in on the positives of the PSL, please do.

Honestly, I'd get the AR. I've only seen one person ever use a full size rifle at a 3 gun, and that was a dude at tiger with an M1A. Build yourself the exact AR you want and don't look back.

Black Stormy
Apr 1, 2003



Secret Ooze posted:

I just got my annual dividend from one of my stock portfolios and I am having a dilemma. I want to build/buy myself a good AR for 3 gunning, but I also want to buy a PSL. If I buy them both my wife will straight up murder me.

As of right now, I would probably put way more mileage on an AR and Im not sure how well I could preform with a PSL at competition(if at all). I think I may have just answered my own question, but if anyone wants to weigh in on the positives of the PSL, please do.

We already had this conversation. You know the correct answer, and it doesn't start with PSL.

bongwizzard
May 19, 2005

Then one day I meet a man,
He came to me and said,
"Hard work good and hard work fine,
but first take care of head"

Grimey Drawer

Detective Thompson posted:

Does anyone happen to know how long (nose to base) a .32 S&W Long bullet is (not the whole round including the case, just the projectile)? Also, this may sound like a weird request, but does anyone have one or two fired pieces of the brass they might be able to send my way?

I have brass I can send you and I even think I have a few complete rounds. Im not sure if I have the right shell holder that would let me pull a bullet though. sent me a PM as a reminder and I will mess with it this afternoon.

eine dose socken
Mar 9, 2008



GSG mainly produces AIRSOFT guns.

Their .22lr guns are plastic airsoft frames with cheap .22lr actions.

This isn't necessarily all bad, but lower your expectations accordingly.

Illegal Clown
Feb 18, 2004



Secret Ooze posted:

I just got my annual dividend from one of my stock portfolios and I am having a dilemma. I want to build/buy myself a good AR for 3 gunning, but I also want to buy a PSL. If I buy them both my wife will straight up murder me.

As of right now, I would probably put way more mileage on an AR and Im not sure how well I could preform with a PSL at competition(if at all). I think I may have just answered my own question, but if anyone wants to weigh in on the positives of the PSL, please do.

I've already mentioned my ideas of buying guns and hiding them from the wife. You need to buy both and just keep the other one hidden. ARs are smaller and easy to break down so you should be able to find all types of places to hide it. The only trouble will be remembering where it is.

Fifty Three
Oct 29, 2007



That's, like, four and a half bad ideas. Guns are not a good reason to gently caress with your wife's trust.

I like turtles
Aug 6, 2009



I'm in the position of making quite a bit more money than my fiance, and have substantial savings. I show her the new stuff I get, and she laughs at me for spending more money on guns, but she doesn't care, since it is my disposable income. *shrug*

As a potential way to royally gently caress with my disposable income in the future: Anyone here fly? Fly helicopters? I did a helicopter flight in Hawaii last week, and with my suddenly improved vision, it seems like a cool, but crazy loving expensive, hobby.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


If it floats, flies, or fucks, it's better to rent than to buy.

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tangy yet delightful
Sep 13, 2005





Get a pilot license, but don't buy the plane/helo.

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