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Its the classic first book example of the Sanderlanche. I can't give you a real number since its been so long since I last read it but its like 90% buildup then 10% nonstop things happening
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Feb 1, 2021 22:51
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I think another thing that hurts this book is how much he leans on a bunch of meat up fantasy words for everything. So certain characters can be referred to by their name, their fantasy title, their fantasy position, their fantasy heritage, or three other names that he might have for them each with very little meaning. I feel like I spent the first few hours of the audiobook completely overwhelmed by all the proper nouns. Just because it is a fantasy book doesn’t mean that everything needs made up names.
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Feb 1, 2021 22:55
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Is the audiobook based on the original version or is it from his revised 10(?) year anniversary edition? I read the latter and heard it was an improvement but it was still pretty rough since I'd started with Stormlight 1-2 and Mistborn Era 1.
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Feb 1, 2021 23:36
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Mordiceius posted:When does Elantris pick up and stop being a bunch of people standing around spouting proper nouns at each other? Elantris may be the single most back-loaded Sanderson book of all. Almost everything good in the book is in the last 10-15%
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Feb 2, 2021 00:08
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ConfusedUs posted:Elantris may be the single most back-loaded Sanderson book of all. Almost everything good in the book is in the last 10-15% Seconding this, and why a lot of people recommended reading something else or even skipping it. It has one of the very best characters ever though
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Feb 2, 2021 02:26
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I don't like audiobooks in general, but the idea of sitting through the first 3/4 of Elantris on audiobook sounds extremely terrible.
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Feb 2, 2021 16:33
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aparmenideanmonad posted:I don't like audiobooks in general, but the idea of sitting through the first 3/4 of Elantris on audiobook sounds extremely terrible. It's 28 hours long. I like audiobooks for dry, horrible things I want to get through because it just keeps going.
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Feb 2, 2021 18:02
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His Hrathen voice isn't bad and that helps.
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Feb 2, 2021 21:08
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uPen posted:It's 28 hours long. I like audiobooks for dry, horrible things I want to get through because it just keeps going. socialsecurity posted:His Hrathen voice isn't bad and that helps.
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Feb 2, 2021 21:20
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aparmenideanmonad posted:I guess that makes sense, but it's still 8+ hours of torturous Sarene chapters and several hours of bad Raoden ones. I'd probably just start tuning out or, more likely, listen to music/podcasts instead. I hate how slow audiobooks go compared to regular reading, and I don't have many life situations outside of the occasional road trip where I have the option to listen but not read. Hey 1/3 of a good book is still better then some books that are 0% bad...
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Feb 2, 2021 21:21
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I mean, the one time I reread Elantris, I mostly skimmed the non-Hrathen chapters. It helped a lot, but a first time reader or audiobook listener doesn't have that choice. By the way, we shouldn't openly talk about how good Hrathen is, I don't think Mordiceius is at that point quite yet.
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Feb 2, 2021 23:08
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Hrathen seems cool af. I think one problem with the audiobook narrator is that he sounds like he’s reading ever line with a drat smirk on his face, like he’s overly pleased with himself. Also, he only has like three character voices and they’re all bad. His Galladon voice is particularly cringe. I’ve been enjoying going with audiobooks just because I can’t make myself sit down and read books much anymore (unless I’m reading them to my wife before bed). My main problem with Elantris is still that I feel like Sanderson leans too much on unnecessary proper nouns. It just feels to me like he felt the need to come up with a fantasy proper noun for almost everything, no matter how unnecessary it is. In the Sarene chapter I’m in, he just referenced two different fantasy card games, giving them each unique names. Did it help the story at all? Not one bit. I think this problem would be mitigated a slight bit if he wasn’t a slave to the split narrative format. Each character is experiencing a different community with a different set of proper nouns, so by the time I get back to Hrathen, I have forgotten what Arteths and Odivs are. The extra devastating aspect is that for some reason Sarene’s chapters are often as long as the other two characters combined. 
Mordiceius fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Feb 2, 2021 |
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Feb 2, 2021 23:30
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Elantris isn't great but it's ok considering how old it is (and I'd rather read it than the Kingkiller books, though that's a low bar to clear). Besides, it could be worse. It could have Shallan POV chapters. 
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Feb 2, 2021 23:55
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Ugh why'd you remind me that series is never going to be finished  I liked a lot of KC except for how like 1/3 of the second book is just Kvothe going on about how good he is at doing the sex to a lady
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Feb 3, 2021 00:05
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Sab669 posted:I liked a lot of KC except for how like 1/3 of the second book is just Kvothe going on about how good he is at doing the sex to a lady I was debating whether or not to start and now I think I will, but I'll be going through it while reading BotL's accompanying posts from the old Rothfuss thread. Evil Fluffy posted:It could have Shallan POV chapters. Hey I actually enjoy the Shallan POVs more than mopey Kaladin POVs. But I feel like I'm the only one in this thread who does
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Feb 3, 2021 00:43
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Sab669 posted:Ugh why'd you remind me that series is never going to be finished I’ve never read Kingkiller Chroncles despite owning the first book for a decade. I know people that swear by it. Even though Patrick Rothfuss isn’t a writer. If you’re going to be a writer... you need to write. Which he doesn’t seem to like to do. Also saw a headline recently saying “there will be a 4th book” which lol when the 3rd book hasn’t even come out.
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Feb 3, 2021 00:50
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Leng posted:Hey I actually enjoy the Shallan POVs more than mopey Kaladin POVs. But I feel like I'm the only one in this thread who does You and me both buddy!
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Feb 3, 2021 01:11
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I posted that I read Way of Kings in the fantasy thread, so I'll just quote my post from there. (I changed my mind, and tagged the whole thing until I figure out the Rhythm of Posting)Pennsylvanian posted:Kept hearing about Brandon Sanderson for years, so I picked up Way of Kings because it was a series-starter and on the top of the list when I searched for him. I really liked it. It's the first fantasy book I've finished in about ten years. A few thoughts: In the replies, someone mentioned that the pacing issue is known and is called the Sanderlanche. Also in the replies, people mentioned that praise for Shallan's wittiness is probably a mixture of characters just putting up with the noble light-eyed girl, and I agree. It definitely made sense that Kabsal put up with it so he could get closer to her, and there were times that Jasnah straight-up chided her for it. But I also felt that Brandon was trying to have it both ways by outright congratulating his characters for being witty in a way that almost breaks the fourth wall. Also, it's not really just Shallan. I actually groaned out loud when I read a particularly bad line that a sailor said to her (something about "walking backwards"). I showed it to my girlfriend who's a Sanderson fan, and she said she remembered that line for being particularly bad, as well. It's not something that's killing my enjoyment, I just don't like when humor gets same-voicey while the author is constantly congratulating themselves, and Sanderson is far, far, from the only author who's guilty of doing it. The Szeth scenes I think were important for setting him up as a dangerous character who was capable of doing incredible things. It's just that they were rough to read for someone completely unfamiliar with the author's work. Also, I liked Shallan's chapters just fine. Pennsylvanian fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Feb 3, 2021 |
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Feb 3, 2021 03:15
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Pennsylvanian posted:Also, I liked Shallan's chapters just fine. Don't worry, there's still time for your wrong opinions to change
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Feb 3, 2021 05:09
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Leng posted:
Why subject yourself to this anguish? Over the years I wound up agreeing with most of his actual arguments about the series but jesus thats a lot of heated posting about a mediocre book to read.
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Feb 3, 2021 05:21
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Pennsylvanian posted:In the replies, someone mentioned that the pacing issue is known and is called the Sanderlanche. Yeah. Sanderson likes to build up multiple threads/viewpoints and then they all come crashing together at the climax. One person's discovery gives context for what it cuts to another facing, or someone just gets a chance to catch a glimpse of another character and think "how are they doing THAT?" When this works it's pretty incredible, but it also means that his stories are very back-loaded and that back doesn't give an obvious point to stop and breathe. Less of an issue in a short story like Mistborn, moreso in something the size of Way of Kings. He's trying to get better at the unevenness; his first published book, Elantris, is basically dead until the avalanche happens.
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Feb 3, 2021 06:12
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Leng posted:Hey I actually enjoy the Shallan POVs more than mopey Kaladin POVs. But I feel like I'm the only one in this thread who does ConfusedUs posted:You and me both buddy! Pennsylvanian posted:Also, I liked Shallan's chapters just fine.   We're not alone!M_Gargantua posted:Why subject yourself to this anguish? Over the years I wound up agreeing with most of his actual arguments about the series but jesus thats a lot of heated posting about a mediocre book to read. Education?  Not an English lit major so every time SFF genre fiction gets a takedown by the ~literary crew~ in the wider TBB threads I have no idea what they're talking about or looking for when they're arguing about whether something is good or not. Also I skim read fast good, so it won't take that long in the scheme of things. I figure it can't be worse than slogging through Books 3-5 of Brent Weeks' Lightbringer and I survived that with my sanity relatively intact.
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Feb 3, 2021 06:20
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Rothfuss is absolutely worse than Lightbringer. It’s time you could spend doing something more enjoyable - maybe just schedule an unnecessary root canal during the time you’d spend reading KC instead? As helpful advice.
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Feb 3, 2021 08:56
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Wasn't the first Lightbringer book released before Name of the Wind, and the series has now concluded with I think 5 books? That alone makes it better than NotW/makes Brent Weeks a better author than Rothfuss. I could never agree with one of BotL's core premises, that magic must be mysterious, and having well established rules is just wrong. Many important plot twists in Sanderson's books wouldn't work if Brandon were following that school of thought.
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Feb 3, 2021 10:45
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Torrannor posted:
I'm not familiar with this person but yeah it's absolutely the wrong take. The entire appeal to me is that it's scientific, there's a sense of discovery about using the magic systems and when the rules are "broken" it drives the narrative to figure out why, either by the person with the special power or those trying to defeat them. And once it's solved it lets you build on a new mystery The prime example is Vin's ability to pierce copper clouds, (major major spoilers) which she thinks is because she's the Hero of Ages but really because she has a hemalurgic spike and being manipulated by Ruin ever since her mother stabbed her sibling to make her earring
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Feb 3, 2021 14:18
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Bruceski posted:Yeah. Sanderson likes to build up multiple threads/viewpoints and then they all come crashing together at the climax. One person's discovery gives context for what it cuts to another facing, or someone just gets a chance to catch a glimpse of another character and think "how are they doing THAT?" When this works it's pretty incredible, but it also means that his stories are very back-loaded and that back doesn't give an obvious point to stop and breathe. Less of an issue in a short story like Mistborn, moreso in something the size of Way of Kings. He's trying to get better at the unevenness; his first published book, Elantris, is basically dead until the avalanche happens. The back part of the book was okay with me. I like that for once, a battle scene was very well-paced. The only problem I had with the pacing was the hot-swapping without real buildup in the early parts of the book. I still don't know what the hell was up with that story in the fishing village. Unless it gets brought up again or I forgot what its relevance was, it just feels like he needed a cliffhanger chapter break.
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Feb 3, 2021 14:56
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I figure the fisherman chapter is a sign that (light spoiler) someone from a previous Sanderson book is bopping around in Roshar somewhere. I started with the Stormlight books too so I didn't get it either.
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Feb 3, 2021 15:17
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Tokelau All Star posted:I figure the fisherman chapter is a sign that (light spoiler) someone from a previous Sanderson book is bopping around in Roshar somewhere. I started with the Stormlight books too so I didn't get it either. it's this, yeah
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Feb 3, 2021 15:21
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DarkHorse posted:I'm not familiar with this person but yeah it's absolutely the wrong take. The entire appeal to me is that it's scientific, there's a sense of discovery about using the magic systems and when the rules are "broken" it drives the narrative to figure out why, either by the person with the special power or those trying to defeat them. And once it's solved it lets you build on a new mystery Same. I generally don't like Sci-Fi but for some reason I just love the hard, grounded rigidity of Sanderson's magic systems rather than just hand wavy, "X did Y, because I guess that's a thing they can do, because magic" kinda stuff. edit; Pennsylvanian posted:I still don't know what the hell was up with that story in the fishing village. Unless it gets brought up again or I forgot what its relevance was, it just feels like he needed a cliffhanger chapter break. The Interludes are... I don't want to say just world building chapters that let you take a breathe from everything going on in the actual story, because on subsequent re-reads / with greater Cosmere knowledge of all his works you'll pick up on important details in said Interludes, but things that happen in all of those chapters might not become relevant/apparent for a book or two or even three. Sab669 fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Feb 3, 2021 |
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Feb 3, 2021 15:23
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Torrannor posted:I could never agree with one of BotL's core premises, that magic must be mysterious, and having well established rules is just wrong. Many important plot twists in Sanderson's books wouldn't work if Brandon were following that school of thought. Legends of Ethshar's magic system is one of my favorites and rules for that include "wizardry, with proper preparation, can do literally anything and if you do something wrong there's no telling what will happen like this tower of fire that has been burning for centuries."
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Feb 3, 2021 15:34
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Sab669 posted:The Interludes are... I don't want to say just world building chapters that let you take a breathe from everything going on in the actual story, because on subsequent re-reads / with greater Cosmere knowledge of all his works you'll pick up on important details in said Interludes, but things that happen in all of those chapters might not become relevant/apparent for a book or two or even three. Yeah, I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt that it would be important or at least relevant. It was just frustrating when Kaladin's story hooked me so early on.
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Feb 3, 2021 15:45
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Torrannor posted:Wasn't the first Lightbringer book released before Name of the Wind, and the series has now concluded with I think 5 books? That alone makes it better than NotW/makes Brent Weeks a better author than Rothfuss. I enjoyed BotL's posts but a lot of his criticisms of the book were very odd. For example saying certain sentences didn't work because they were a combination of Anglo-Saxon and Latinate. I do agree there is a vagueness about Rothfuss' writing. For example saying a town is "halfway between a farming town and a mining town." Alright, I have not been given a description of either of those, guess I'll try imagining the combination now. Or "he moved with the subtle certainty that comes with knowing many things." Again, difficult to imagine what that really looks like. The effect is of a vague, pressing tension, though I suppose a writer creating any sort of tension among a plethora of scenes where the narrative never advances is a positive as it keeps people reading. I'd take Sanderson's straightforwardness over that sort of poetic attempts.
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Feb 3, 2021 15:47
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If you don’t like the Purelake or trade caravan interludes, I don’t even know what to tell you. Rysn owns and you’ll not tell me otherwise 
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Feb 3, 2021 15:48
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KKKLIP ART posted:If you don’t like the Purelake or trade caravan interludes, I don’t even know what to tell you. Rysn owns and you’ll not tell me otherwise I can see the Purelake one being dull when you just want more Kaladin/Syl, but yea Rysn is great.
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Feb 3, 2021 16:03
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Evil Fluffy posted:Legends of Ethshar's magic system is one of my favorites and rules for that include "wizardry, with proper preparation, can do literally anything and if you do something wrong there's no telling what will happen like this tower of fire that has been burning for centuries." Well now I’m intrigued. Are they worth reading, and in any particular order?
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Feb 3, 2021 16:39
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rafikki posted:Well now I’m intrigued. Are they worth reading, and in any particular order? I think there's a chronological order but only a few of the books directly connect to one another while some reference events from others. Misenchanted Sword is a decent starting point and chronologically I believe it's first as well.
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Feb 3, 2021 20:41
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Evil Fluffy posted:Legends of Ethshar's magic system is one of my favorites and rules for that include "wizardry, with proper preparation, can do literally anything and if you do something wrong there's no telling what will happen like this tower of fire that has been burning for centuries." I'm absolutely not saying that less well defined magic systems are bad, you can tell good stories without a rigid ruleset for your supernatural abilities. Lord of the Rings is a prime example of course. I just do not agree at all that strictly rules based magic is somehow wrong, as BotL maintained.
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Feb 3, 2021 23:29
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DarkHorse posted:I'm not familiar with this person You may not want to go down this rabbit hole, but here's the thread in the Goodmine: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3833655 Ccs posted:I enjoyed BotL's posts but a lot of his criticisms of the book were very odd. For example saying certain sentences didn't work because they were a combination of Anglo-Saxon and Latinate. I do agree there is a vagueness about Rothfuss' writing. For example saying a town is "halfway between a farming town and a mining town." Alright, I have not been given a description of either of those, guess I'll try imagining the combination now. Or "he moved with the subtle certainty that comes with knowing many things." Again, difficult to imagine what that really looks like. The effect is of a vague, pressing tension, though I suppose a writer creating any sort of tension among a plethora of scenes where the narrative never advances is a positive as it keeps people reading. The main gist that I got from skimming his thread is apparently the only criteria relevant to determining if a book is good according to a ~literary lens~ are things like prose and themes. Choice quotes:
The one critique I thought was most valid was that if you love reading, you should read widely and not limit yourself to any one type of thing in particular, because reading widely broadens your horizons and understanding as a person. It was immediately followed with the criticism that you wouldn't learn anything new reading something like Sanderson over more literary stuff. Personally, I think what matters is whether a work makes a significant impact on someone's life: whether it's someone on the brink of suicide reading about Kaladin and feeling like they're being represented and deciding to live instead or feeling enlightened by reading William Faulkner or whatever, then who are we to judge that one experience is more valid or worth more than the other? Torrannor posted:I could never agree with one of BotL's core premises, that magic must be mysterious, and having well established rules is just wrong. Sab669 posted:Same. I generally don't like Sci-Fi but for some reason I just love the hard, grounded rigidity of Sanderson's magic systems rather than just hand wavy, "X did Y, because I guess that's a thing they can do, because magic" kinda stuff. Yeah, apparently the literary crew really have a thing against this, which I genuinely find puzzling: Cacto posted:Is Sanderson just writing terrible science fiction? If it’s all rules-based and can be understood with experimentation then he means science when he says magic. His worlds just have odd fundamental laws. porfiria posted:It’s crazy to me how tangential this nonsense is to good story telling. Like it’s already been said but this poo poo is pure tabletop rpg/ videogame bullshit. Maybe it's just a weird thing they have with their definition of what constitutes fantasy. Captain Monkey posted:Rothfuss is absolutely worse than Lightbringer. It's time you could spend doing something more enjoyable - maybe just schedule an unnecessary root canal during the time you'd spend reading KC instead? Yowzers.  Duly noted.
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Feb 4, 2021 02:07
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Leng posted:Maybe it's just a weird thing they have with their definition of what constitutes fantasy. It's been said before, but in many ways Sanderson's work have more in common with sci-fi than they do with fantasy. Between the "natural laws" type of magic and the focus on how those effect society at large it's not hard to see the similarities. It's definitely still fantasy, but it does blur the lines a bit. That's why I really enjoy it as someone who often likes sci-fi but rarely likes fantasy. It's all built to be understandable, and revelations of the story or actions of the characters feel very earned and grounded, despite the supernaturality of it all.
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Feb 4, 2021 03:19
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Leng posted:Hey I actually enjoy the Shallan POVs more than mopey Kaladin POVs. But I feel like I'm the only one in this thread who does I love both
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Feb 4, 2021 03:52
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