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TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007



Infinite Karma posted:

With Adolin nearly bonding Maya without speaking the ideals, he could also become some kind of unbound surgebearer, and who knows how that would work out.

This is a very fun line of thought, given what we saw Ishar do as an unbound bondsmith.

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Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Evil Fluffy posted:

:sickos:

Though as good as Adolin is, when Adolin sees Dalinar fight Szeth on the plains he recognizes immediately that he's nothing compared to what his dad was like when younger and that yes, the Blackthorn really was that much of a force of nature because look at how well Dalinar can fight as an older man without shardplate against a dude who has murdered multiple shardbearers. Dalinar does better right then and there against Szeth than Adolin (and Kaladin without surges) did in their earlier fight. Adolin's a good duelist but his fighting skill isn't on the same level as Dalinar at the same age and the fight with Szeth strongly implies Adonlin might not even be on Dalinar's even now (though as we see in RoW even if that's true, Adolin's still a beast). If Dalinar had succumb and reverted he'd absolutely break Adolin in a one on one fight.
The impression I get is that Adolin is extremely skilled within the bounds of a structured duel. But he doesn't have nearly as much unstructured combat experience as his dad. Adolin knows how to duel, while Dalinar knows how to kill men.

Pennsylvanian
May 22, 2010


Finished Oathbringer. This was a good story sandwich. The beginning started out really good, then dragged (for me at least) at the tail end of when The Gang Went to Shadesmar , and then got really good again at the end. The slow parts were fewer for me in Oath than they were in the first two books (it really just amounts to a handful of chapters' worth of world-building in the middle), and I appreciate that he toned down the length of some of the interludes this time around.

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom Vroom, BEEP BEEP!

Nap Ghost

Cicero posted:

The impression I get is that Adolin is extremely skilled within the bounds of a structured duel. But he doesn't have nearly as much unstructured combat experience as his dad. Adolin knows how to duel, while Dalinar knows how to kill men.

Yeah this tracks for me.

That said Adolin knows how to improvise and use every advantage and psychology break he can find, which is how he managed to hold off all those raiders and survive a 4-on-1 fight

With experience I bet he could be comparable to the Blackthorn, though I don't know if anyone could match someone completely unconcerned for anything besides killing everyone around him

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



Without the Thrill he could never be The Blackthorn's equal. But I would agree with that he's still clearly a skilled and well-trained swordsman

loquacius
Oct 21, 2008

IT'S INCISIVE COMMENTARY!


I was honestly expecting Adolin to bond Maya before the last trial scene ended, I totally bond-ship them

Granted I had the same reaction toward Rlain and the Sibling and look how that turned out

I do really think that the Sibling just getting over themselves and bonding Navani already makes a whole lot of narrative sense though and I found it satisfying, even if it means Rlain got bonded by a rando spren ex machina instead

loquacius
Oct 21, 2008

IT'S INCISIVE COMMENTARY!


As for who Odium's champion is, obviously we're supposed to expect it'll be Moash, but I'm honestly leaning toward it being Szeth. Taravangian is Odium now, and he has a lot of experience making Szeth do stuff, especially since he's not dumb anymore. Szeth is about to go through some serious poo poo in Shin, and I'd be surprised if Taravangdium couldn't somehow twist that to his advantage. If you could choose between Moash and Szeth, wouldn't you do everything in your power to go with Szeth?

eke out
Feb 24, 2013



loquacius posted:

As for who Odium's champion is, obviously we're supposed to expect it'll be Moash, but I'm honestly leaning toward it being Szeth. Taravangian is Odium now, and he has a lot of experience making Szeth do stuff, especially since he's not dumb anymore. Szeth is about to go through some serious poo poo in Shin, and I'd be surprised if Taravangdium couldn't somehow twist that to his advantage. If you could choose between Moash and Szeth, wouldn't you do everything in your power to go with Szeth?

[major spoilers through the end of rhythm of war]:

i feel like the major stumbling block is that while Szeth is feeling all the right Bad Emotions, he personally hates taravangian more than anyone alive

of course, it raises the question of whether T can keep his identity as Odium secret for very long or what. either way I don't think we're going to get an obvious champion, I assume it'll be some trick.

i've posted this here before but the thing i want most to happen is Taravangian revealing himself as Odium's champion at the climactic moment and putting Dalinar in an impossible moral bind, would be a very good payoff for their books-long debates about whether the ends justify the means -- willing to kill an old man you like and respect to save the world, proving that he was right and you were wrong all along, Radiant?

eke out fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Mar 4, 2021

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE


eke out posted:

[major spoilers through the end of rhythm of war]:

i feel like the major stumbling block is that while Szeth is feeling all the right Bad Emotions, he personally hates taravangian more than anyone alive

of course, it raises the question of whether T can keep his identity as Odium secret for very long or what. either way I don't think we're going to get an obvious champion, I assume it'll be some trick.

i've posted this here before but the thing i want most to happen is Taravangian revealing himself as Odium's champion at the climactic moment and putting Dalinar in an impossible moral bind, would be a very good payoff for their books-long debates about whether the ends justify the means -- willing to kill an old man you like and respect to save the world, proving that he was right and you were wrong all along, Radiant?


But Taravangian is not just an innocent old man, even aside from bein Odium. Since champions apparently must willingly serve as such (otherwise Odium could probably have compelled Dalinar somehow), that means this old man willingly fights for the god who wants to wipe out all of humankind by using them as fodder in an endless Cosmere wide war. This is like a soldier storming a nuclear silo where a decrepit old man is just about to launch nukes to wipe out those drat Soviets. Even if a trained soldier with a gun is not a fair match for a grandpa, there's still no moral ambiguity whether the soldier has a right to kill that old man. Likewise, if Taravangian were old Odium's champion, Dalinar would still be fully justified to just kill him. And Dalinar would never see him as an innocent old man in the first place, since he knows that Big T had Szeth assassinate world leaders to sow chaos, that he helped fuel the horrendous civil war in Jah Kehved to become it's king, and that he had already betrayed Dalinar's coalition twice, once at the Battle of Thaylen City, once in their war in Emul. Dalinar would rightly see Big T as a lawful enemy combatant, even if he's a decrepit enemy combatant.

This could have been interesting if Dalinar didn't already know that Taravangian was far from innocent, and if he knew that Odium had somehow forced Big T to be his champion, like by occupying Karbaranth and threatening to destroy it. But since that scenario is out, I fail how a showdown between Taravangian and Dalinar could offer the moral quandary you describe.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007



loquacius posted:

As for who Odium's champion is, obviously we're supposed to expect it'll be Moash, but I'm honestly leaning toward it being Szeth. Taravangian is Odium now, and he has a lot of experience making Szeth do stuff, especially since he's not dumb anymore. Szeth is about to go through some serious poo poo in Shin, and I'd be surprised if Taravangdium couldn't somehow twist that to his advantage. If you could choose between Moash and Szeth, wouldn't you do everything in your power to go with Szeth?

That would definitely be a twist, given that Szeth has essentially sworn himself to Dalinar as one of his ideals

Infinite Karma
Oct 23, 2004
Good as dead







TheMadMilkman posted:

That would definitely be a twist, given that Szeth has essentially sworn himself to Dalinar as one of his ideals
And also Moash is blind and no longer magically, completely, fearless and confident. It seems like it'd have to be someone who makes a huge heel turn in the middle of Book 5, or else somehow the fight gets called off through a huge deus ex machina.

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



TheMadMilkman posted:

That would definitely be a twist, given that Szeth has essentially sworn himself to Dalinar as one of his ideals

Two of 'em one was, "I'll do whatever Dalinar says", and the other was, "I'mma go commit some serious Shinocide so long as Dalinar's cool with it"

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

eke out posted:

[major spoilers through the end of rhythm of war]:

i feel like the major stumbling block is that while Szeth is feeling all the right Bad Emotions, he personally hates taravangian more than anyone alive

of course, it raises the question of whether T can keep his identity as Odium secret for very long or what. either way I don't think we're going to get an obvious champion, I assume it'll be some trick.

i've posted this here before but the thing i want most to happen is Taravangian revealing himself as Odium's champion at the climactic moment and putting Dalinar in an impossible moral bind, would be a very good payoff for their books-long debates about whether the ends justify the means -- willing to kill an old man you like and respect to save the world, proving that he was right and you were wrong all along, Radiant?


To continue on your spoilers:
The champion is probably going to be Dalinar's grandson. Odium can easily convince a child that their dad's dead because grandpa did something that got him killed and don't you want to punish grandpa for being bad? Dalinar will never be able to kill an innocent (and manipulated) child, especially his only(?) grandchild.

Sab669
Sep 24, 2009



Evil Fluffy posted:

To continue on your spoilers:
The champion is probably going to be Dalinar's grandson. Odium can easily convince a child that their dad's dead because grandpa did something that got him killed and don't you want to punish grandpa for being bad? Dalinar will never be able to kill an innocent (and manipulated) child, especially his only(?) grandchild.

Gavinor? He's like 5 years old. And according to Coppermind he asked Adolin to train him in the sword so he can kill Moash. I definitely don't remember this in RoW but I don't remember a lot from it :v:

eke out
Feb 24, 2013



Evil Fluffy posted:

To continue on your spoilers:
The champion is probably going to be Dalinar's grandson. Odium can easily convince a child that their dad's dead because grandpa did something that got him killed and don't you want to punish grandpa for being bad? Dalinar will never be able to kill an innocent (and manipulated) child, especially his only(?) grandchild.

yeah no way is he convincing a child to "willingly" kill his granddad in the next 10 days

Torrannor posted:

This could have been interesting if Dalinar didn't already know that Taravangian was far from innocent, and if he knew that Odium had somehow forced Big T to be his champion, like by occupying Karbaranth and threatening to destroy it. But since that scenario is out, I fail how a showdown between Taravangian and Dalinar could offer the moral quandary you describe.

i meant in some kind of "i won't fight you, you'll have to kill me in cold blood if you think it's the right thing to do" kind of way

i fully admit this is highly unlikely to happen

loquacius
Oct 21, 2008

IT'S INCISIVE COMMENTARY!


TheMadMilkman posted:

That would definitely be a twist, given that Szeth has essentially sworn himself to Dalinar as one of his ideals

Taravangian could definitely justify it -- losing the duel makes Dalinar Odium's champion and as such immortal, and when you think about it isn't that really the best outcome for him etc etc etc. It wouldn't even be against Dalinar's orders necessarily, since Dalinar is contractually obligated to do this duel, and as such if Taravangian picks Szeth as his champion, Dalinar might be forced to tell him to just do the duel since the alternative would put him in breach.

Infinite Karma posted:

And also Moash is blind and no longer magically, completely, fearless and confident.

this part I actually literally forgot about somehow lol

a whole bunch of poo poo happens in like the last 40 or 50 pages of this book, it is a very dense climax w/r/t narrative progression

loquacius
Oct 21, 2008

IT'S INCISIVE COMMENTARY!


do the Fused not have healers? Like, I get how that might not work on Moash's blindness, and I get how they could very believably not give a single poo poo about healing anyone else, but it does seem like kind of a big hole in their capabilities

but maybe I'm just tainted by RPGs having "healer" as one of the base archetypes

is this enough spoiler-tagging? Having trouble judging lol

loquacius fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Mar 4, 2021

eke out
Feb 24, 2013



loquacius posted:

do the Fused not have healers?

I'm not sure if it's 100% confirmed yet, but iirc it seemed like the Fused that use Progression can maybe only use it on themselves to rapidly regenerate and can't externalize the power

they have all the powers except adhesion but their uses of them seem consistently more limited than what Radiants can do (with the tradeoff being they use them like breathing and can do them way more often)

eke out fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Mar 4, 2021

Captain Monkey
Aug 23, 2007



Everyone knows Odium's champion is going to be Kelsier reborn.

Leng
May 13, 2006

One song / Glory
One song before I go / Glory
One song to leave behind


No other road
No other way
No day but today


I doubt that RoW it's going to be as straight forward as we imagine. On T's ascension, he's explicitly disgusted that Rayse got himself bound into such a deal and at the same time, he's like hrmmm...there's a loophole here. Todium is going for the loophole, no question.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007



loquacius posted:

do the Fused not have healers? Like, I get how that might not work on Moash's blindness, and I get how they could very believably not give a single poo poo about healing anyone else, but it does seem like kind of a big hole in their capabilities

if I recall correctly, they tried to heal him with voidlight, but it didnít work on his eyes. It could be like Kaladinís brand was, where he wonít heal because he feels he deserves the injury, or Moash could be damaged some other way that we donít understand yet

And ya, there are going to be so many twists in Book 5. Sucks that we have to wait so long.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE


We've waited longer for the finale of Mistborn 2, and I'm very happy to get Lost Metal in a bit more than a year (fingers crossed!).

Infinite Karma
Oct 23, 2004
Good as dead







TheMadMilkman posted:

if I recall correctly, they tried to heal him with voidlight, but it didnít work on his eyes. It could be like Kaladinís brand was, where he wonít heal because he feels he deserves the injury, or Moash could be damaged some other way that we donít understand yet

And ya, there are going to be so many twists in Book 5. Sucks that we have to wait so long.
In the cosmere lore, I'm pretty sure "healing" works by restoring your physical body to what your spiritual body should be. If you change someone on the spiritual level, magic can't heal it.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Torrannor posted:

We've waited longer for the finale of Mistborn 2, and I'm very happy to get Lost Metal in a bit more than a year (fingers crossed!).

Especially because Mistborn 2's taking place only several years before Stormlight, so during all of Wax and Wayne's adventures you have Kelsier operating somewhere and Iyatil could very well be in the book, assuming they weren't already in Bands of Mourning and I forgot any mention/hints of it. The odds Wax and/or Wayne don't get pulled into the larger Cosmere activity seems unlikely and the end of that book is probably going to have a direct tie in to who Harmony's agent is and what their role is in the Stormlight books.

seaborgium
Aug 1, 2002

"Nothing a shitload of bleach won't fix"


TheMadMilkman posted:

if I recall correctly, they tried to heal him with voidlight, but it didnít work on his eyes. It could be like Kaladinís brand was, where he wonít heal because he feels he deserves the injury, or Moash could be damaged some other way that we donít understand yet

And ya, there are going to be so many twists in Book 5. Sucks that we have to wait so long.

I just reread some of it, they didn't heal him they just gave him Stormlight. All his other wounds healed, even a broken spine but he was still blind. It sounds like he thinks it's part of his Identity, so he can't heal it. Opposite reason that Lopen could regrow his arm after all those years, he never really saw himself as a one armed man, but as a dude who happened to be missing an arm for right now. It wasn't part of his capital I Identity so Stormlight could restore it.

TheMadMilkman
Dec 10, 2007



Thanks for looking at that. Iím not surprised I misremembered. The RoW conclusion is a massive information dump, and itís easy to lose a few of the details.

big mean giraffe
Dec 13, 2003

Eat Shit and Die


Lipstick Apathy

Evil Fluffy posted:

Especially because Mistborn 2's taking place only several years before Stormlight, so during all of Wax and Wayne's adventures you have Kelsier operating somewhere and Iyatil could very well be in the book, assuming they weren't already in Bands of Mourning and I forgot any mention/hints of it. The odds Wax and/or Wayne don't get pulled into the larger Cosmere activity seems unlikely and the end of that book is probably going to have a direct tie in to who Harmony's agent is and what their role is in the Stormlight books.

Mistborn Era 2 is between the SLA eras (or at least after era 1)

eke out
Feb 24, 2013



big mean giraffe posted:

Mistborn Era 2 is between the SLA eras (or at least after era 1)

all mistborn/stormlight 4: yeah, the implication is that Harmony forming a plan here is what he follows through with in horrifically manipulating Wax's life to make him his agent that can both ruin and preserve

the twist at this point is if it's not Wax because right now it appears to very clearly be Wax

White Chocolate
Jan 23, 2007
Sweat Baby, sweat baby

So Iím loving war breaker and Iím glad itís free on his website. Besides the mistborn/stormlight/elantris/warbreaker which cosmere should I jump to next? Iím thinking about white sand but drat.

eke out
Feb 24, 2013



White Chocolate posted:

So Iím loving war breaker and Iím glad itís free on his website. Besides the mistborn/stormlight/elantris/warbreaker which cosmere should I jump to next? Iím thinking about white sand but drat.

definitely the short story collection Arcanum Unbounded for Sixth of Dusk and Shadows of Silence if you haven't read it, then there's a chapter of the sequel to Sixth of Dusk online for free that is very interesting

edit: but if you haven't finished mistborn or stormlight, go to those first and do not read AU yet as it will spoil huge plot points

eke out fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Mar 5, 2021

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMPIN' ON INTO THE POWER LINES




Exciting Lemon

Either mistborn, or continue your adventure through stormlight. Leave white sands for the end.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

White Chocolate posted:

So Iím loving war breaker and Iím glad itís free on his website. Besides the mistborn/stormlight/elantris/warbreaker which cosmere should I jump to next? Iím thinking about white sand but drat.

eke out beat me to it, but he's right and here's everything in AU:

Elantris related:
The Emperor's Soul, a novella originally published in 2012
The Hope of Elantris, originally published as an e-book in 2007

Mistborn related:
The Eleventh Metal, originally released in 2011 as part of the Mistborn Adventure Game
Allomancer Jak and the Pits of Eltania, Episodes 28 through 30, originally released on August 3, 2014 as part of the Alloy of Law extension to the Mistborn Adventure Game
Mistborn: Secret History, a short novel originally published in 2016 as an e-book

Stormlight related:
Edgedancer, a Stormlight Archive novella

Other:
White Sand, an excerpt of the graphic novel originally published in 2016 and a previously unpublished opening section of the original prose version of the story.
Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell, a novella originally published in 2013 in the Dangerous Women anthology
Sixth of the Dusk, a novellette originally published in 2014 in the Shadows Beneath anthology

Leng
May 13, 2006

One song / Glory
One song before I go / Glory
One song to leave behind


No other road
No other way
No day but today


Guys, instead of just doing the annual State of the Sanderson, Brandon is now doing UPDATE VIDEOS on his YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiZdjaIhyWI

Mainly discussions on Skyward 3, which I am very excited for.

KKKLIP ART
Sep 3, 2004



I really need to read Emperor's Soul, White Sand, and Skyward. It is a big hole in my Cosmere world

Anshu
Jan 9, 2019




Skyward isn't Cosmere, I don't think.

Captain Monkey
Aug 23, 2007



Skyward is not Cosmere.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!



I believe that the rule of thumb is that has a version of Earth isnít cosmere.

Late Fees
Jan 8, 2004
Your fees are valid.


It's super good though

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

ConfusedUs posted:

I believe that the rule of thumb is that has a version of Earth isnít cosmere.

20 years and 60 books from now we'll get a reveal from Hoid that Adonalsium's main(?) world was called Terra.

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Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

I was terrified at first, but I think I'm okay with it.



Finished ďThe Emperorís Soul.Ē It was... fine? I think this thread overhyped it to a degree. Not my most favorite thing heís done, but I enjoyed the journey. Neat format. The magic presented felt far more soft than others. I think I ended up expecting some bigger twist. It was still a very solid story.

CURRENT SANDERSON RANKINGS -

The Final Empire
The Hero of Ages
The Emperorís Soul
The Well of Ascension
Elantris
The Hope of Elantris

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