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BananaNutkins posted:Mistborn isn't supposed to be YA. Sanderson just writes very simply, and has soft, family friendly sensibilities due to his religious beliefs. Although these are less true as of The Way of Kings and Warbreaker, respectively.
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Apr 23, 2012 04:35
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Monolith. posted:And Vin's earring: Did she not have to have any metal on her to use the mists or...? As was spelled out to the reader (and eventually to Vin herself), the earring was actually a Spike, compounding her Bronze and letting her pierce Copperclouds. As a side effect, she couldn't burn the Mists (which were Preservation's body) while under Ruin's influence (read: Spiked).
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Apr 23, 2012 06:08
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404GoonNotFound posted:As was spelled out to the reader (and eventually to Vin herself), the earring was actually a Spike, compounding her Bronze and letting her pierce Copperclouds. As a side effect, she couldn't burn the Mists (which were Preservation's body) while under Ruin's influence (read: Spiked). Oh holy poo poo how did I miss that? Thanks!
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Apr 23, 2012 06:12
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Also Sazed fixed the planet, not Elend and Vin. He was able to take the power of Preservation and Ruin, which allowed him to reshape the planet to be as it once was. Elend burns up Ruin's body, and Vin kills his... other body, I guess. That part confused me a little.
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Apr 23, 2012 06:47
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Kruller posted:Also Sazed fixed the planet, not Elend and Vin. He was able to take the power of Preservation and Ruin, which allowed him to reshape the planet to be as it once was. Elend burns up Ruin's body, and Vin kills his... other body, I guess. That part confused me a little. His consciousness, to be exact. Each Shard is made up of three parts: a body, a consciousness, and their power (the actual Shard of Adonalsium, whoever or whatever that originally was). Preservation's body was the Mists, and his consciousness was all but completely fried when he imprisoned Ruin in the Well of Ascension, leading to the vague waving and stabbing and whatnot by the mist figure. Ruin's consciousness was inside said well, and his body was the Atium, as previously explained. So by the end of Hero of Ages there was nothing left of each of them except for their respective powers, which were both absorbed by Sazed. And as for the Hero's identity seemingly coming out of nowhere, don't forget Sanderson's love of foreshadowing: The (presumably real part of) the prophecy said that the Hero would "carry the world on his arms". Not his shoulders, his arms. Of course everyone thought that it was a "weight of the world" reference, but oh look someone just happened to have about 5,000 years of oral history bolted onto his forearms. And don't forget Sazed and Tindwyl complaining about the prophecy using a gender-neutral pronoun, making it so that anyone could be the Hero... or maybe just a eunuch, who was technically genderless  This was probably already explained better in the book itself, but gently caress it I love the trilogy so drat much I can't help but nerd out about it once in a while. 404GoonNotFound fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Apr 23, 2012 |
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Apr 23, 2012 07:01
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Thanks for the explanations. 
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Apr 23, 2012 19:12
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BananaNutkins posted:Its a light, fast paced read. Not everything has to be highbrow literature. Really they're both just books and it's meaningful to weigh them on their own merits without mindlessly confining them to categories that are largely based on the opinions of others. It's like a defense mechanism to keep what you like from being critiqued. No, not every book is Shakespeare. Thank you for pointing that out.
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Apr 23, 2012 19:22
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Above Our Own posted:This is a dumb thing that people sometimes say when you compare something they like to something widely believed to be high quality. In your mind, you have these categories of "good" things and "just for fun" things and for some odd reason you invent a separate scale for each. It's sort of like the way I put all your posts in this thread into the category of pointlessly condescending douchebag.
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Apr 23, 2012 19:38
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soru posted:It's sort of like the way I put all your posts in this thread into the category of pointlessly condescending douchebag.
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Apr 23, 2012 19:57
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404GoonNotFound posted:And as for the Hero's identity seemingly coming out of nowhere, don't forget Sanderson's love of foreshadowing: The (presumably real part of) the prophecy said that the Hero would "carry the world on his arms". Not his shoulders, his arms. Of course everyone thought that it was a "weight of the world" reference, but oh look someone just happened to have about 5,000 years of oral history bolted onto his forearms. And don't forget Sazed and Tindwyl complaining about the prophecy using a gender-neutral pronoun, making it so that anyone could be the Hero... or maybe just a eunuch, who was technically genderless
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Apr 23, 2012 22:03
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Above Our Own posted:You're just mad about getting owned earlier. Oh man you totally owned him bro hope you're not arbitrarily putting him in the category of "owned" though, that would be stupid.
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Apr 24, 2012 00:53
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No he was just dismissive of my earlier posts because I didn't love every aspect of the books, which is unfair IMO. I enjoyed the book quite a bit but I can still honestly appraise it's faults.
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Apr 24, 2012 01:43
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Above Our Own posted:This is a dumb thing that people sometimes say when you compare something they like to something widely believed to be high quality. In your mind, you have these categories of "good" things and "just for fun" things and for some odd reason you invent a separate scale for each. I don't think you understood properly. We were arguing that Mistborn has simple characters. You are the one who equated "simple" with "bad" and placed Mistborn into some kind of "bad" category. On the other hand, I claimed that simple characters were appropriate for what Mistborn was trying to achieve, and that I believe the story would not be much improved by more realistic, deeper characterization. I actually think it would be worse, because it would shift the focus away from constant action and magic system tomfoolery, and because Sanderson didn't have the writing chops at that point in time to pull off much more than he did. He was intelligent enough to realize his limitations and he played to his strengths. MartingaleJack fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Apr 24, 2012 |
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Apr 24, 2012 03:11
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I wish I could discuss more in this thread, but I'm terrified of spoilers. I'm currently reading The Well of Ascension, and while I don't enjoy it as much as The Final Empire, Chapter 47 is one of the best pieces of fantasy I've ever read. Every moment leading up to the fight between Zane and Vin was gripping and believable. The action itself was stellar, as it has been throughout the series, and the conclusion was bittersweet and poignant. It's rare for a book to strike a strong emotional response in me, but that chapter did it two or three times. Amazing. I loved seeing Vin exploit her gifts in another way, and the actions of Also, this is the first series I've ever read in which I actually give a gently caress about the relationships of a teenage girl.
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Apr 24, 2012 04:47
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Aggro posted:I wish I could discuss more in this thread, but I'm terrified of spoilers. Zane was much more compelling a character than Elend. I was firmly on Team Zane for Vin's love interest, had the story gone a different way.
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Apr 24, 2012 06:12
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BananaNutkins posted:I don't think you understood properly. I think Sanderson's works are imaginative and a lot of fun. I intend to read the next Stormlight Archives books. I also think his characterization is very bad, even for fantasy. His plot lines are also unoriginal. You can like a thing but also be aware of its faults unless you're one of those weirdos who feels personally attacked when something they like is criticized. Not directed at you, but in general.
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Apr 24, 2012 06:35
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Here's a 20 minute interview ABC radio did with Brandon Sanderson on his Australia tour. (Mostly WOT questions.) http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/booksandartsdaily/brandon-sanderson/3954680 EDIT: This is pretty much ALL about the WOT, but still its a good interview. Double EDIT: Actually, the last five minutes delve into his Mormon religion and his teaching job. Cartoon Man fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Apr 24, 2012 |
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Apr 24, 2012 22:57
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ConfusedUs posted:typical self-insert fantasy If you take out the parts where you mention Night Angel in this post, it's almost like you're talking about Patrick Rothfuss.
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Apr 24, 2012 23:36
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BananaNutkins posted:Zane was much more compelling a character than Elend. I was firmly on Team Zane for Vin's love interest, had the story gone a different way. Really? Wow, I can't even imagine. From the very beginning Zane was a complete abusive rear end in a top hat who sought nothing more than to belittle and demean Vin so that her self-esteem would drop enough that he could dominate her. He was the biggest sleezeball in a series that wasn't exactly lacking in sleezeballs. If he was a real world guy he would have posted on Reddit. Not to insult or anything, it's just really weird to hear. Zane is one of those guys I just couldn't find anything redeeming about, even when trying to approach from a different angle.
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Apr 25, 2012 18:45
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ImpAtom posted:Really? Wow, I can't even imagine. From the very beginning Zane was a complete abusive rear end in a top hat who sought nothing more than to belittle and demean Vin so that her self-esteem would drop enough that he could dominate her. He was the biggest sleezeball in a series that wasn't exactly lacking in sleezeballs. If he was a real world guy he would have posted on Reddit. No poo poo, but it makes perfect sense in my mind if I see you as actually one of those people who liked Twilight and must frame every book as a Twilight book.
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Apr 25, 2012 19:29
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I was probably just overbalancing my hatred of Elend. Somewhere around the middle of book 2 I realized I wanted him out of the story. It just got worse and worse from there.
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Apr 25, 2012 19:33
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arioch posted:No poo poo, but it makes perfect sense in my mind if I see you as actually one of those people who liked Twilight and must frame every book as a Twilight book. Alright? I'm not at sure how you got there, but whatever works for you. Zane was literally a psycho murderer who worked to cut Vin off from the people she cared about so she would leave with him. It's hard for me to find that character sympathetic, even if he was manipulated by Ruin. BananaNutkins posted:I was probably just overbalancing my hatred of Elend. Somewhere around the middle of book 2 I realized I wanted him out of the story. It just got worse and worse from there. That I can understand. Elend got tiresome right around the point he lost his king status to me.
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Apr 25, 2012 19:44
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ImpAtom posted:Alright? I'm not at sure how you got there, but whatever works for you. Zane was literally a psycho murderer who worked to cut Vin off from the people she cared about so she would leave with him. It's hard for me to find that character sympathetic, even if he was manipulated by Ruin. That "you" wasn't you you, if it makes my post make more sense to you you. Sorry for the confusion.
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Apr 25, 2012 19:49
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ImpAtom posted:Alright? I'm not at sure how you got there, but whatever works for you. Zane was literally a psycho murderer who worked to cut Vin off from the people she cared about so she would leave with him. It's hard for me to find that character sympathetic, even if he was manipulated by Ruin. He meant "you" in the general sense, that Twilight fans are going to ship whatever the most dysfunctional bullshit is they can find, which would explain why there's people out there who wanted Zane/Vin to pair up. When you consider the fact that the relationship dynamic in Twilight would in reality be aggressive stalking and harassment it totally makes sense.
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Apr 25, 2012 19:56
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arioch posted:That "you" wasn't you you, if it makes my post make more sense to you you. Sorry for the confusion. No problem, I read it poorly. Sorry.
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Apr 25, 2012 20:16
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Zane was a super-typical troubled badboy with "issues". The sympathetic crutch for his character is that he was abused and forced to become a monster, so it really wasnt his fault. We can see that had things gone a different way he might have become a good person. Its a bit of a cheap characterization tool, but hey, even realizing that I still found him more interesting than book 2 and 3 Elend. Maybe because "Knives" was such an awesome section.
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Apr 25, 2012 20:23
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Not to distract from the Mistborn discussion but Way of Kings is 900+ pages? Holy moly. Should I read Elantis before that or after?
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May 4, 2012 22:04
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Monolith. posted:Not to distract from the Mistborn discussion but Way of Kings is 900+ pages? Holy moly. Should I read Elantis before that or after? Elantris is pretty short and fast to read. I'd go with it first. It's also Sanderson's first novel and it shows. Way of Kings is better written, by a long shot. However, Elantris is fun. All the talk about how it was Sanderson's first novel scared me off for a long time. Don't let it scare you.
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May 4, 2012 22:25
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Monolith. posted:Not to distract from the Mistborn discussion but Way of Kings is 900+ pages? Holy moly. Should I read Elantis before that or after? Elantris is his first book and it shows in some places, I personally love the book but a few people have told me it is their least favorite of his books. If you ask me The Way of Kings is his best book so far but if only being able to read the first book of a 12 book series will bother you then read Elantris first, if not start with The Way of Kings. On the other hand Mistborn is a really good introduction to his work and the first trilogy is complete so if you haven't read those that might be a better place to start.
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May 4, 2012 22:26
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Yeah, I already finished the Mistborn series. Thanks!
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May 4, 2012 23:41
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I listened to 2/3s of Elantris through audiobook on a long trip. I absolutely HATED the beginning; I was completely bored, but I'd already listened to my other books first so it was either that, or the radio. I stuck it out, but it was just so boring until 4 or 5 hours in, and then it started getting interesting. Part of the problem was the audiobook's quality; they basically did it like a narrated movie with sound effects and voice actors, rather than directly just reading the book, and I found that extremely annoying, but barely anything was going on at first. I'd already listened to over half of the book by the time I got home, but it definitely had gotten better, and then read the rest, and liked that much more than the audiobook, too. So I don't know if it's really that boring and tedious when you read it, but regardless, it's my least favorite Sanderson book. I still liked it regardless, but those first few hours I was so completely bored. The Way of Kings is 1007 pages? Holy crap, no wonder it took me so long to read. One of the things I really hate about Kindle is that it doesn't really give you a page count that you can immediately understand, so I had no idea how long the book was. That explains why when I stayed up to finish it at 87% that it took so long, I guess. Absolutely loved the book, though; frustrated as hell waiting for the next one.
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May 5, 2012 00:13
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I think they have started associating actual page numbers with location counts in Kindle now.
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May 5, 2012 02:30
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OneTwentySix posted:I listened to 2/3s of Elantris through audiobook on a long trip. I absolutely HATED the beginning; I was completely bored, but I'd already listened to my other books first so it was either that, or the radio. I stuck it out, but it was just so boring until 4 or 5 hours in, and then it started getting interesting. Part of the problem was the audiobook's quality; they basically did it like a narrated movie with sound effects and voice actors, rather than directly just reading the book, and I found that extremely annoying, but barely anything was going on at first. Was it the one by these folks? They turn books into radio dramas, so if you've never listened to any before, I could see it being kind of weird.
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May 5, 2012 05:40
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Kreeblah posted:Was it the one by these folks? They turn books into radio dramas, so if you've never listened to any before, I could see it being kind of weird. Yes. At first I thought it would be kind of neat, but I didn't like it. The voice acting wasn't very good for more than a few characters, or was just retarded ("You can tell I'm evil because I have an evil voice!!!"), and I really did miss some of the stuff in between dialog that they didn't narrate; it made enough of an impression that I realized that I was able to notice that they weren't reading the entire book, skipping sentences here and there. Just not my kinda thing, I guess.
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May 5, 2012 05:56
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OneTwentySix posted:("You can tell I'm evil because I have an evil voice!!!" To be fair, that's pretty much how the book reads.
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May 6, 2012 12:27
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I started The Way of Kings tonight after finishing Elantris and wow you can immediately tell that Sanderson has improved so much. Elantris was an awesome book too.
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May 7, 2012 07:09
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Hmm, thinking on Compounding, what happens with a Copper Twinborn? You store memories...then burn them to release more memories than you put in?
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May 9, 2012 09:26
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veekie posted:Hmm, thinking on Compounding, what happens with a Copper Twinborn? You store memories...then burn them to release more memories than you put in? Well compounding is generally an enhanced version of whatever burning it would do so... I dunno, you extend the emotional allomancy immunity to anyone else in the cloud?
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May 9, 2012 09:41
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Well, we know Gold compounding gives you health for free, so I figure it would give you the Feruchemical attribute, available as an Allomantic metal. If it simply boosted the allomantic aspect of the metal you'd have basically the same effect as Duralumin after all.
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May 9, 2012 09:56
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Above Our Own posted:This is a dumb thing that people sometimes say when you compare something they like to something widely believed to be high quality. In your mind, you have these categories of "good" things and "just for fun" things and for some odd reason you invent a separate scale for each. I've read lots of literature in college that was objectively good and intellectually stimulating but which I did not enjoy whatsoever. I can definitely understand people wanting to put good books and fun books on different scales.
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May 9, 2012 16:29
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