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Kruller
Feb 20, 2004

It's time to restore dignity to the Farnsworth name!



The best part of WoK is that Kaladan's pity party should be pretty much done with. Now he just has to worry about his bridge crew, and also being a super badass.

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Fellwenner
Oct 21, 2005
Don't make me kill you.



mistaya posted:

I'm listening to the Mistborn trilogy on audiobook, about 1/4 of the way through the 3rd one. (The audiobooks are excellent by the way.)

But this world just got so depressing it's almost hard to listen to. I feel like there's no fixing things, everyone's going to die a slow miserable death. Elend just gave this "What Would Kelseer Do? Smile!" speech to the crew and it didn't even help. I really liked the first book, and the second was okay, but this one the futility of it all is really starting to make it unenjoyable to read (well, hear).

Maybe it's just the audio format, since it's so much slower. 5 hours of every character acting doomed is just :smith:

Don't ever read Cormac McCarthy then.

Monolith.
Jan 28, 2011

To save the world from the expanding Zone.


Kruller posted:

The best part of WoK is that Kaladan's pity party should be pretty much done with. Now he just has to worry about his bridge crew, and also being a super badass.

This is definitely the best part.

treeboy
Nov 13, 2004

James T. Kirk was a great man, but that was another life.


Macdeo Lurjtux posted:

So I'm finally sitting down with Way of Kings (reading Mistborn, Elantris, Warbreaker and White Sand in quick succession kinda burned me out on his stock characters) and I'm just wondering, this is his Exalted campaign isn't it.

Is White Sand available somewhere? I can't find any information about it other than it was something he wrote early on that was incomplete

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!


treeboy posted:

Is White Sand available somewhere? I can't find any information about it other than it was something he wrote early on that was incomplete

I'm not sure, I think I got the copy I read from one of those old cd's TOR used to package with their hardcovers. You know, the ones that contained like 60-70 books in e-reader format.

Above Our Own
Jun 24, 2009

by Shine


Skellen posted:

Don't ever read Cormac McCarthy then.
I don't think that's going to be a huge issue in the Brandon Sanderson thread. There about as far apart on the literary spectrum as you can go.

Mahlertov Cocktail
Mar 1, 2010

I ate your Mahler avatar! Hahahaha!

Above Our Own posted:

I don't think that's going to be a huge issue in the Brandon Sanderson thread. There about as far apart on the literary spectrum as you can go.

I love McCarthy. :colbert:

IRQ
Sep 9, 2001

SUCK A DICK, DUMBSHITS!



Just because we read YA fantasy doesn't mean we don't read "literature" too. Jeez.

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011


IRQ posted:

Just because we read YA fantasy doesn't mean we don't read "literature" too. Jeez.

Speak for yourself, I wouldn't read "Literature" if you paid me. :colbert:

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004


here he comes
and he's gone again


Nap Ghost

Or, as I like to call it, "Litter-ature."

Natural Joe
Dec 27, 2006


I think we will be in for more Kaladin flash back stuff cause there was a bit about a woman who knew him while he was a slave and it seems like a hint at more of his past

This Post Sucks
Dec 27, 2004

It Gave Me Splinters!

Subterranean Press just released their cover for Legion:



I'm aching for more Sanderson stuff. :argh:

Popular Human
Jul 17, 2005

and if it's a lie, terrorists made me say it


Wolpertinger posted:

Speak for yourself, I wouldn't read "Literature" if you paid me. :colbert:

The depressingest post.

I'm honestly surprised there's not some website somewhere that's collected all of Sanderson's early drafts and unpublished novels (stuff like White Sand). I'd love to read the nuts-and-bolts stuff (and pore over it for Cosmere poo poo) and he apparently used to be really free with sending people unpublished stuff if they asked him for it.

Mahlertov Cocktail
Mar 1, 2010

I ate your Mahler avatar! Hahahaha!

Natural Joe posted:

I think we will be in for more Kaladin flash back stuff cause there was a bit about a woman who knew him while he was a slave and it seems like a hint at more of his past

Cool, I liked his flashbacks in Way of Kings. :colbert:


This Post Sucks posted:

Subterranean Press just released their cover for Legion:



I'm aching for more Sanderson stuff. :argh:

I saw that and love that cover. Also, I really hope it makes the projected late summer release so that I have it before I go to Germany!

Aggro
Apr 24, 2003

STRONG as an OX and TWICE as SMART


I'm a third of the way through The Way of Kings, and I'm having the same issue with it that I did with Elantris. There are three protagonists, but one of them has a vastly more interesting story than the others. For Elantris, Raoden was way more fun to read about than Sharene or Hrathen. In The Way of Kings, Kaladin's chapters are a huge step up from those with Dalinar and his son. Like, I get frustrated when they get back-to-back chapters because I want more Kaladin.

wellwhoopdedooo
Nov 23, 2007

Pound Trooper!

Aggro posted:

I'm a third of the way through The Way of Kings, and I'm having the same issue with it that I did with Elantris. There are three protagonists, but one of them has a vastly more interesting story than the others. For Elantris, Raoden was way more fun to read about than Sharene or Hrathen. In The Way of Kings, Kaladin's chapters are a huge step up from those with Dalinar and his son. Like, I get frustrated when they get back-to-back chapters because I want more Kaladin.

I felt the same way at around the 1/3 mark.

Then I flipped the page, and was horrified to find that I was already halfway through. Then I flipped the page, and it was tomorrow. The book really hits its stride after the 1/3-1/2 way through mark on your first readthrough. On the second, the first 1/3 is much more interesting, because you understand the characters.

FewtureMD
Dec 19, 2010

I am very powerful, of course.




Wolpertinger posted:

Speak for yourself, I wouldn't read "Literature" if you paid me. :colbert:

Holy crap, someone else who's read Walter Moers!

For content: I recently purchased the Mistborn RPG. Would anyone like to see a review or tour through even more worldbuilding/magic explanations?

Drunk Tomato
Apr 23, 2010

If God wanted us sober,
He'd knock the glass over.

FewtureMD posted:

Holy crap, someone else who's read Walter Moers!

For content: I recently purchased the Mistborn RPG. Would anyone like to see a review or tour through even more worldbuilding/magic explanations?

I would love to see a review!

IRQ
Sep 9, 2001

SUCK A DICK, DUMBSHITS!



FewtureMD posted:

Holy crap, someone else who's read Walter Moers!

For content: I recently purchased the Mistborn RPG. Would anyone like to see a review or tour through even more worldbuilding/magic explanations?

Definitely.

404GoonNotFound
Aug 6, 2006

The McRib is back!?!?


FewtureMD posted:

Holy crap, someone else who's read Walter Moers!

For content: I recently purchased the Mistborn RPG. Would anyone like to see a review or tour through even more worldbuilding/magic explanations?

Only if you crosspost it in the FATAL & Friends thread (which I am like 50 pages behind on :ohdear: )

syphon
Jan 1, 2001


Aggro posted:

I'm a third of the way through The Way of Kings, and I'm having the same issue with it that I did with Elantris. There are three protagonists, but one of them has a vastly more interesting story than the others. For Elantris, Raoden was way more fun to read about than Sharene or Hrathen. In The Way of Kings, Kaladin's chapters are a huge step up from those with Dalinar and his son. Like, I get frustrated when they get back-to-back chapters because I want more Kaladin.
I had this same problem, so I reverted to a habit I had as a teenager. Basically, I read all the Kaladin POV's in sequential order, then went back and read the other POV's in order. I'm not too sensitive about spoilers, so it didn't bother me that much (it only becomes problematic towards the end when the POVs converge).

bowmore
Oct 6, 2008





Lipstick Apathy

So when does Elantris start to get interesting? I'm 200 pages in and so far it's been a bit of a bore. I tore through the Mistborn trilogy and Warbreaker and loved every second of it.

Clockwork Gadget
Oct 30, 2008

tick tock


Not really ever. I guess it picks up a bit towards the end, but it was really difficult for me to read through it after having read the rest of his stuff first. It's his first novel and it shows.

OneTwentySix
Nov 5, 2007

fun
FUN
FUN




bowmore posted:

So when does Elantris start to get interesting? I'm 200 pages in and so far it's been a bit of a bore. I tore through the Mistborn trilogy and Warbreaker and loved every second of it.

Maybe halfway in or so? By the end, it's pretty good, but it suffers big time from having three? point of view characters, and only one is even slightly interesting.

Aggro
Apr 24, 2003

STRONG as an OX and TWICE as SMART


OneTwentySix posted:

Maybe halfway in or so? By the end, it's pretty good, but it suffers big time from having three? point of view characters, and only one is even slightly interesting.

It does take a while. As a bit of a spoiler, I thought it picked up dramatically when Raoden finally meets Sharene, but that doesn't happen until ~60% through the book. The opening definitely suffers from Raoden's story being way more interesting than noble politicking.

Fearian
Nov 21, 2007

TSSSSSSssssss...



I'm only going to dip into this thread briefly - I'm about two thirds through well of ascension and I'm terrified of spoilers. I think I glanced one big spoil as I checked the thread so forgive me if this has been discussed:

I'm loving the series, but I'm hating Vin. It's not that I don't like her or sympathise her, but I feel like she's been written very flatly in the second book. In Book one we watched her get pulled out of the Ska life and slowly begin to change her view of the world, get more powerful and see a bit of her conflicting emotions regarding this change of view.

In Well, Sanderson seems to focus entirely on Vin's inner thoughts regarding her position in the world and among her friends in ways that reflect her lack of a guide and mentor. That's fine even if I feel it's dragged out and over analysed to the point of in your face obviousness. The problem I have is everything else that is rubbed in the readers face in regards to vin, that she herself fails to notice or act on, and how she and some others seem to ignore hugely obvious problems.

Here's some examples:
-Straight up, the nearly obvious similarities between vin and the log book author, which she thinks about every night, but takes an age to figure out and does nothing in regards to. Even when making the link, she uhm's and ah's over what to do about it. Understandable except:
-Vin's biggest fear is loosing trust in her friends, yet she tells no-one about the mist, the mist ghost, the drumming feeling, Zane, her history with Zane even when Elend meets Zane in the camp, OreSeur, her progress with the spy, EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS TO HER IN THE ENTIRE BOOK SO FAR. This is doing my loving head in. These Massive. Big. Important. things, many of them related to the CURRENT WAR and she tells no-one. The king is her lover and she doesn't even mention any of it. Even when she finally gets around to exchanging notes with Sazed, she leaves out half the story! Argh.


Whew. Ok, I did not realise how much I needed to vent about that. I know getting annoyed that characters don't do what you want them to do is like the lowest form of plot criticism, but even though much of these can be individually explained, it's mostly weak and I'm finding the same problem in another area as well.

Luthadell is at war. the amount of poo poo that Elend and the crew let slide is obscene. Number one is clearly the strong evidence that an extremely high ranking member of the city's innermost decision makers has been murdered and replaced by a spy. This prompts no action from anyone until Vin regretfully and occasionally decides to test whoever happens to be with her hat the time. The spy operates among them for weeks, possibly months, and several very key plans are ruined that cost heavily, put everyone in the poo poo, and lead to deaths along the way. No-one seems to give a flying actual gently caress. Number 2 on the list being Elend allowing Tindwyl in with him, the king, alone, and then accepting right off the bat that she 'is a friend of sazed'.

Please tell me these things bothered someone else. It's the spy bit I can't reconcile really. What the gently caress Vin. :sigh:

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!



Fearian posted:

I'm only going to dip into this thread briefly - I'm about two thirds through well of ascension and I'm terrified of spoilers. I think I glanced one big spoil as I checked the thread so forgive me if this has been discussed:

I'm loving the series, but I'm hating Vin. It's not that I don't like her or sympathise her, but I feel like she's been written very flatly in the second book. In Book one we watched her get pulled out of the Ska life and slowly begin to change her view of the world, get more powerful and see a bit of her conflicting emotions regarding this change of view.

In Well, Sanderson seems to focus entirely on Vin's inner thoughts regarding her position in the world and among her friends in ways that reflect her lack of a guide and mentor. That's fine even if I feel it's dragged out and over analysed to the point of in your face obviousness. The problem I have is everything else that is rubbed in the readers face in regards to vin, that she herself fails to notice or act on, and how she and some others seem to ignore hugely obvious problems.

Here's some examples:
-Straight up, the nearly obvious similarities between vin and the log book author, which she thinks about every night, but takes an age to figure out and does nothing in regards to. Even when making the link, she uhm's and ah's over what to do about it. Understandable except:
-Vin's biggest fear is loosing trust in her friends, yet she tells no-one about the mist, the mist ghost, the drumming feeling, Zane, her history with Zane even when Elend meets Zane in the camp, OreSeur, her progress with the spy, EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS TO HER IN THE ENTIRE BOOK SO FAR. This is doing my loving head in. These Massive. Big. Important. things, many of them related to the CURRENT WAR and she tells no-one. The king is her lover and she doesn't even mention any of it. Even when she finally gets around to exchanging notes with Sazed, she leaves out half the story! Argh.


Whew. Ok, I did not realise how much I needed to vent about that. I know getting annoyed that characters don't do what you want them to do is like the lowest form of plot criticism, but even though much of these can be individually explained, it's mostly weak and I'm finding the same problem in another area as well.

Luthadell is at war. the amount of poo poo that Elend and the crew let slide is obscene. Number one is clearly the strong evidence that an extremely high ranking member of the city's innermost decision makers has been murdered and replaced by a spy. This prompts no action from anyone until Vin regretfully and occasionally decides to test whoever happens to be with her hat the time. The spy operates among them for weeks, possibly months, and several very key plans are ruined that cost heavily, put everyone in the poo poo, and lead to deaths along the way. No-one seems to give a flying actual gently caress. Number 2 on the list being Elend allowing Tindwyl in with him, the king, alone, and then accepting right off the bat that she 'is a friend of sazed'.

Please tell me these things bothered someone else. It's the spy bit I can't reconcile really. What the gently caress Vin. :sigh:

Sanderson is bad about what we call the Sanderson Avalanche; lots and lots and lots of buildup, then everything falls downhill and just doesn't stop.

You're in the buildup phase right now.

The reveal for everything you said is entirely worth it.

bowmore
Oct 6, 2008





Lipstick Apathy

I can explain Vin in two words. Teenage Girl.

Fearian
Nov 21, 2007

TSSSSSSssssss...



ConfusedUs posted:

Sanderson is bad about what we call the Sanderson Avalanche; lots and lots and lots of buildup, then everything falls downhill and just doesn't stop.

You're in the buildup phase right now.

The reveal for everything you said is entirely worth it.

I dearly hope so!

bowmore posted:

I can explain Vin in two words. Teenage Girl.

Eh, I guess.

Also, something else that isn't a gripe so much as something I find a bit funny. If you listen to the audiobook, number one - you get to hear the drawled rhyme "The Inquisitoors, did not want Visitoors." and number two - you notice how often Sanderson has his characters exclaim "She's so strong!!!" in their minds (or some variant, "She's so quick!" "He's so tall!" "She's so light!" etc. etc.)

Drunk Tomato
Apr 23, 2010

If God wanted us sober,
He'd knock the glass over.

Fearian posted:

Also, something else that isn't a gripe so much as something I find a bit funny. If you listen to the audiobook, number one - you get to hear the drawled rhyme "The Inquisitoors, did not want Visitoors." and number two - you notice how often Sanderson has his characters exclaim "She's so strong!!!" in their minds (or some variant, "She's so quick!" "He's so tall!" "She's so light!" etc. etc.)

What bothered me is how often characters "snort". Seriously, it's like every other sentence.

Fearian
Nov 21, 2007

TSSSSSSssssss...



Haha, Or 'Flush'. At one point Vin thinks she sees OreSeur 'flush' as a dog.

Cartoon Man
Jan 31, 2004

Nyah hah hah hah hah!



I started to cringe every time Elend would open his mouth and say, "Now see. Blah blah blah blah blah."

Quantum Toast
Feb 13, 2012



Cartoon Man posted:

I started to cringe every time Elend would open his mouth and say, "Now see. Blah blah blah blah blah."
I'm pretty sure Tindwyl had the same reaction.

bowmore
Oct 6, 2008





Lipstick Apathy

I think I'm about the only person who liked Elend

Odette
Mar 19, 2011



bowmore posted:

I think I'm about the only person who liked Elend

You too? Nice!

I liked all of the characters though. :ohdear:

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Quantum Toast posted:

I'm pretty sure Tindwyl had the same reaction.

Yeah, it's probably intentional on both parts I think. Neither Vin nor Elend are any good with the situation they are in during Well of Ascension. Their entire life up to then is more or less defined by what they are rebelling against, and now it's suddenly reversed.

Fearian
Nov 21, 2007

TSSSSSSssssss...



Ahahaha, listening to the part where Vin and then Elend both come to Sazed for advice one after another and both send Tindwyl out. I can here the sitcom jingle for the scene changes already :)

Contra Calculus
Nov 6, 2009



Gravy Boat 2k

All right, after months of trying to read some other stuff like Pratchett and more WoT, I got back onto reading other Sanderson books and started Way of Kings today.

Can, I just say this poo poo loving owns? I read it non-stop for a good four hours today and I can already tell whatever flaws I felt were prevalent in Mistborn, he really cleaned up with this book. True, characterization and dialogue is still not very strong, but it still feels like a great improvement over Mistborn's. (Not that Mistborn is totally bad with characterization. Dialogue is another issue.)

Either that, or I'm just really excited to finally read about a new fantasy world and I'm blinded to its flaws in dialogue and characterization. I like Kaladin as a character so far, though.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

INSERT QUACK TO CONTINUE





Taco Defender

No, it's not just you. I'd only really consider Elantris to be rough, but he's still improved with pretty much every book he's written.

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The Glumslinger
Sep 24, 2008

Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?




Hair Elf

I would say that while WoK is definitely the best written book, my favorite is Mistborn by a wide margin. From about halfway through, it was the embodiment of :tviv:

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