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Nettle Soup
Jan 30, 2010

Oh, and Jones was there too.


Weltnarok posted:

So, I just finished Steelheart myself, and what a great ride it was!

I personally was very wrong, thinking that his weakness had something to do with his powers working on dead tissue, but not live tissue. I remember the book specifically saying that the barrel of the gun shot by David's father was sticking into the ashes of the dead security guard. Or, I thought the weakness could have been him being shot through another person or Epic. Maybe I'm just really morbid!


I thought the same, that he'd shot through the first guy so that's why it worked, or because it had blood on the bullet.

Overall, I enjoyed this, but the fake-swearing really got to me. "Idiot" wouldn't have gone out of circulation that fast...

Nettle Soup fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Oct 3, 2013

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Victorkm
Nov 25, 2001



I really enjoyed the book and like many others I thought that the weakness was that the bullet had to kill another Epic at the same time.

Jorenko
Jun 6, 2004

I think you're just mad 'cause you're single.

Benson Cunningham posted:

Read the new book.

I think it would have been much cooler if Megan was schizophrenic and only one of her personalities knew it had epic powers.

It was pretty good. Definitely aimed at young adults, not overly complex. Interesting setting, hope he leaves the city for the next book.

Do you know the difference between schizophrenia and multiple personalities disorder? This brings up a cool thought though: a schizophrenic illusionist epic. Maybe they THINK they're a gifter for some other power. But they only "gift" to their projections?

Xachariah
Jul 26, 2004



More disabilities amongst the people in Sanderson's books would be fairly refreshing. I mean, for being dystopias the people in the Mistborn and Reckoner's worlds are perplexingly perfect. No one has survived a disease or gotten into an accident or anything? No one happens to have a mental illness or genetic disorder? No asthma, back pains or deafness due to industrial machinery?

I know that the same thing is true for most non-Sanderson media too, but it seems to be more prominent to me when you're in a dystopia with no prevalent miracle healing.

Kwyndig
Sep 23, 2006

Heeeeeeey




Well in Mistborn it makes sense, since it explains in Well of Ascension that the Lord Ruler transformed humanity to be able to survive.

But yeah, Steelheart should feel more dystopic than it does..

snooman
Aug 15, 2013


I wonder about the temperature in a mostly steel city with no sunlight.

Winters there would be incredibly uncomfortable.

Odette
Mar 19, 2011



snooman posted:

I wonder about the temperature in a mostly steel city with no sunlight.

Winters there would be incredibly uncomfortable.

No sunlight = no Vitamin D = an incredibly depressed population = Steelheart drugs everyone by putting anti-depressants into the water supply!

Sanderson has obviously thought things through.

mossyfisk
Nov 8, 2010

FF0000


I found it a bit disappointing personally. I mean it's a YA so you can't expect that much, but I guessed all the twists from their first clue, thought all the characters were flat, and found the prose boring and simplistic. "Epics" is also a stupid name.

It was though - as always - very tightly put together, and I'd definitely recommend it to teenagers.

Also, my suspicion is all Epics are Gifters, and most just never try/let anyone know.

snooman
Aug 15, 2013


Odette posted:

No sunlight = no Vitamin D = an incredibly depressed population = Steelheart drugs everyone by putting anti-depressants into the water supply!

Sanderson has obviously thought things through.

Happy people can still freeze to death. Steelheart probably has a minion capable of maintaining some kind of temperature stasis, or else the tunnels have some sort of geothermal effect.

Nettle Soup
Jan 30, 2010

Oh, and Jones was there too.


I guess if the steel goes down as far as he says, possibly miles, it would maintain a steady, if somewhat cool, temperature, the whole place basically being one giant heatsink. Maybe geothermal, drawing heat up from the center of the earth.

That said, I may have put more thought into that than Sanderson himself and we should all just agree it's magic.

mystes
May 31, 2006



mossyfisk posted:

I found it a bit disappointing personally. I mean it's a YA so you can't expect that much, but I guessed all the twists from their first clue, thought all the characters were flat, and found the prose boring and simplistic. "Epics" is also a stupid name.

It was though - as always - very tightly put together, and I'd definitely recommend it to teenagers.
I agree with this. It was very predictable (I was actually amazed that the characters didn't guess Steelheart's weakness considering it was basically the only logical reason for the secret PR facility. They literally didn't even stop to think, "Wow, we found this ultra-secret facility wired with explosives, maybe it has some connection with his weakness considering that literally the only thing any Epics appear to spend any time worrying about is their weakness?"). All the characters were completely 1-dimensional (and annoying) and aside from the action sequences the writing was very dull. I think a lot of the quirks of Sanderson's prose grate a lot more in a contemporary setting than in a fantasy world, and I frequently found his dialogue unrealistic.

I thought this book was as bad as Elantris, which was disappointing considering that I hadd thought his writing had been improving over time.

mystes fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Oct 3, 2013

Benson Cunningham
Dec 9, 2006

Chief of J.U.N.K.E.R. H.Q.


Jorenko posted:

Do you know the difference between schizophrenia and multiple personalities disorder? This brings up a cool thought though: a schizophrenic illusionist epic. Maybe they THINK they're a gifter for some other power. But they only "gift" to their projections?

Sorry I used the colloquial definition of that word instead of saying what I actually meant. But yeah the combination of mental problems and superhuman powers is nearly limitless!

Tunicate
May 15, 2012





Xachariah posted:

More disabilities amongst the people in Sanderson's books would be fairly refreshing. I mean, for being dystopias the people in the Mistborn and Reckoner's worlds are perplexingly perfect. No one has survived a disease or gotten into an accident or anything? No one happens to have a mental illness or genetic disorder? No asthma, back pains or deafness due to industrial machinery?

At least one of the guys in kelsier's crew broke his leg and it didn't heal right. Zane was crazy even before Ruin spiked him (Ruin said he wasn't, but Ruin lied), as was Vin's mom.

treeboy
Nov 13, 2004

James T. Kirk was a great man, but that was another life.


Tunicate posted:

At least one of the guys in kelsier's crew broke his leg and it didn't heal right. Zane was crazy even before Ruin spiked him (Ruin said he wasn't, but Ruin lied), as was Vin's mom.

furthermore when even the healtiest members of society aren't particularly cared for and people think nothing of killing them for essentially sport, the crazy ones probably don't last very long or end up starving on the streets.

Zane only survived due to his usefulness and Ruin's machinations.

As for Steelheart I finished it yesterday.

I enjoyed it quite a bit! It's a very fun, if straight forward, adventure. The twists were appropriate for YA, and I only guessed about 80% correctly/completely.

Megan I kinda pegged as an Epic before she even manifested any powers. Partially because the main character claims he can spot them (which means eventually he'll fail to spot one) and because of how beautiful he describes her. That said I was *not* expecting her to be Firefight. More likely a minor talent or latent epic (if such a thing exists)

it's a solid addition to Sandersons repertoire in my opinion and I look forward to sequels. It did feel a bit...short? rushed? not sure how to describe it. It feels like a side project.
In the end however it's only whetting my appetite for Words of Radiance.

syphon
Jan 1, 2001


I guess I somewhat accurately guessed Steelheart's weakness early on. I thought it had something to do with being shot by someone who admires or cares for the person. When the dad shot Steelheart, he still thought he was a GOOD epic and was actually aiming for Deathpoint. It's not exactly the same thing as what his weakness turned out to be, but it was darn close!

New Yorp New Yorp
Jul 18, 2003

Only in Kenya.


Pillbug

syphon posted:

I guess I somewhat accurately guessed Steelheart's weakness early on. I thought it had something to do with being shot by someone who admires or cares for the person. When the dad shot Steelheart, he still thought he was a GOOD epic and was actually aiming for Deathpoint. It's not exactly the same thing as what his weakness turned out to be, but it was darn close!

I thought it was that you had to not be intentionally trying to hurt him, but since that was explicitly mentioned to be one of the things the characters thought it might be, I figured it wasn't.

treeboy
Nov 13, 2004

James T. Kirk was a great man, but that was another life.


Ithaqua posted:

I thought it was that you had to not be intentionally trying to hurt him, but since that was explicitly mentioned to be one of the things the characters thought it might be, I figured it wasn't.

I figured You had to be trying to save him when shooting him and it would come down to an internal mental/emotional decision to "save" him by preventing Steelheart from doing any more damage to society/people's lives.

it's why i'm glad that i'm not a writer

The Glumslinger
Sep 24, 2008

Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?




Hair Elf

Xachariah posted:

More disabilities amongst the people in Sanderson's books would be fairly refreshing. I mean, for being dystopias the people in the Mistborn and Reckoner's worlds are perplexingly perfect. No one has survived a disease or gotten into an accident or anything? No one happens to have a mental illness or genetic disorder? No asthma, back pains or deafness due to industrial machinery?

I know that the same thing is true for most non-Sanderson media too, but it seems to be more prominent to me when you're in a dystopia with no prevalent miracle healing.

There was plenty of discussion about beggers in Mistborn being the people who had gotten into accidents and lost limbs or had mental issues.

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Sanderson is too nice of a guy to do a lot of 'gritty' stuff like swearing, crippled people, torture, and humor that has any kind of edge to it. Or maybe it just seems that way since I recently binged on Abercrombie. Going from Red Country to Steelheart was quite the culture shock.

Hopeford
Oct 14, 2010

Eh, why not?


To be honest, I kind of enjoy the lack of grittiness in Sanderson's stuff. I kind of like the tone he uses in his stories better than the gritty, realistic tone a lot of fiction seems to go for these days. I mean, even when dark and gritty stories are good and the grittiness is a logical and well written consequence of the story, there's only so many times I can have an author go "Ha! Things are miserable because this is realistic!" before I go "Yeah I'm not having a lot of fun reading this." I'm exaggerating a bit, but I really do appreciate Sanderson's somewhat...I don't want to say lighthearted, because not all of his stuff is, but more like optimistic? Yeah, let's go with that. Optimistic approach in regards to tone. I like that even when his characters die, their deaths tend to happen in the best way possible instead of...you know, the other way around. I'm a huge baby, but I just prefer that type of story in general.

thespaceinvader
Mar 30, 2011

The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!


TBF, Sanderson's done gritty and disturbing, it just tends to be a bit more off-screen. The scenes from Marsh's PoV once he's a Steel Inquisitor are hosed up. As are the Steel Inquisitors and Haemalurgy in general. Everyone one of those spikes? Came from a magician who was killed with it. Usually by hammering it directly through that magician into the steel inquisitor below. Into their eyes. And spinal columns. By a bunch of people who are essentially enslaved by the spikes, and can choose either to be forced to enjoy what they're doing, or can exert a modicum of control, just enough to KNOW they're being forced to enjoy it, and would otherwise not if not for the spikes. Steel inquisitors are horrific.

Not to mention the loving Koloss.

It's not like Mistborn in general isn't incredibly dark, too. This is a world teetering on the very brink of apocalypse, and quite a lot of time is essentially spent fiddling whilst Rome burns.

Just because it's not (often and on-screen) gory, doesn't mean it's not dark. If anything, it's significantly darker than Abercrombie's world. Just with a more optimistic finish. The setting's nastier, but Sanderson is kinder about the human spirit, basically.

Where similar characters exist (looking at, say, Kelsier and Monza, two basically brutal murderers with no compassion in particular for large quantities of the populace. Monza goes about her revenge, gets it, carries on not hugely caring. Kelsier learns to get on with his crew, teaches a kid, and in the end sacrifices himself to the greater good.

It's pretty interesting to compare them, actually.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


I think, it's more that Sanderson's books are more idealistic, even if the world is on the brink of destruction, even when the petty and evil are stronger and more successful. Staying true to your beliefs and fighting the good fight works out in the end, though many sacrifices may be required of you.

egg tats
Apr 3, 2010


treeboy posted:

I figured You had to be trying to save him when shooting him and it would come down to an internal mental/emotional decision to "save" him by preventing Steelheart from doing any more damage to society/people's lives.

it's why i'm glad that i'm not a writer

I assumed the same thing but instead of what you said I figured prof was going to go hardcore darkside at the end, and the mc was going to shoot at him and accidentally hit steelheart and for ya'll talking about sanderson's lack of grit, keep in mind that at the end of steelheart, it's heavily implied that the first thing prof did after calamity was destroy the school he worked at, killing all of the students.

I would go so far as to say Sanderson's specialty is hosed up apocalyptic hellscapes. Warbreaker is the only one of his novels I can think of that doesn't fit that (elantris is 50/50 but it's still pretty hosed up with its hall of permanently injured, undying, mentally broken children and all).

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

I don't see how The Way of Kings is an apocalyptic hellscape. Yeah there's terrible parts to the world and a big bad thing coming but that's pretty much always true in high fantasy.

NinjaDebugger
Apr 22, 2008




Cicero posted:

I don't see how The Way of Kings is an apocalyptic hellscape. Yeah there's terrible parts to the world and a big bad thing coming but that's pretty much always true in high fantasy.

That's only because Stormlight is about a world about to undergo the apocalypse. I mean, the entire opening was about the reincarnating saviors who are supposed to save the world time and time again saying "gently caress this, I quit."

Victorkm
Nov 25, 2001



Cicero posted:

I don't see how The Way of Kings is an apocalyptic hellscape. Yeah there's terrible parts to the world and a big bad thing coming but that's pretty much always true in high fantasy.

Technically it is because of the storms, but then the world has been evolving and adapting to the storms for so long its a lot less so these days.

This Post Sucks
Dec 27, 2004

It Gave Me Splinters!

Cicero posted:

Sanderson is too nice of a guy to do a lot of 'gritty' stuff like swearing, crippled people, torture, and humor that has any kind of edge to it. Or maybe it just seems that way since I recently binged on Abercrombie. Going from Red Country to Steelheart was quite the culture shock.

Echoing what others have said, there were plenty of brutal, gritty parts to this book. They just weren't in your face:

At the very beginning where Deathpoint killed a baby in its mother's arms. I kind of did a double take and thought "That's pretty harsh for a YA book." That whole scene and the viciousness of Deathpoint was fairly gruesome.

Also, numerous mentions of how the Epics would kill people at a whim.

Also, the broadcast with Steelheart where he just randomly destroys a skyscraper full of people without saying a word.


Also, (Rithmatist and Steelheart spoilers)I was actually kind of surprised that the main character didn't have Epic powers, especially since this is the second book in a row where the main character's only outstanding qualities have been their own, mundane abilities.

Odette
Mar 19, 2011



This Post Sucks posted:

Also, (Rithmatist and Steelheart spoilers)I was actually kind of surprised that the main character didn't have Epic powers, especially since this is the second book in a row where the main character's only outstanding qualities have been their own, mundane abilities.

Wasn't Mistborn similar? As the trilogy progressed, a couple of characters gained more powers. Haven't read them for a while so I can't recall which ones.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?









College Slice

So the next book is titled Firefight but apparently (one of?) the big bads is a high epic that rules New York. So I guess that tells us that we're not going to stay in Chicago. And Firefight won't be the villain, if that isn't obvious enough already.

Also, Chicago weather sucks. If anything changing all the city and land to steel probably improved it.

Frabba
May 30, 2008

Investing in chewy toy futures

Regarding the next book: It is not that surprising that it will not be in Chicago, there is going to be a massive power vacuum from the death of Steelheart and Nightweilder and it is unlikely that firefight is strong enough on her own to consolidate power under herself, or if she even has that kind of desire after the resurrection. It would make sense to see her ending up as a high level lackey for the big bad in NY.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012





Frabba posted:

Regarding the next book: It is not that surprising that it will not be in Chicago, there is going to be a massive power vacuum from the death of Steelheart and Nightweilder and it is unlikely that firefight is strong enough on her own to consolidate power under herself, or if she even has that kind of desire after the resurrection. It would make sense to see her ending up as a high level lackey for the big bad in NY.

Although Conduit could probably keep control of a lot of stuff

Democratic Pirate
Feb 17, 2010



This Post Sucks posted:

Also, (Rithmatist and Steelheart spoilers)I was actually kind of surprised that the main character didn't have Epic powers, especially since this is the second book in a row where the main character's only outstanding qualities have been their own, mundane abilities.
Rithmatist: I'm leaning towards the main character does have powers, based on the weird thing that happened in the chamber, but doesn't believe it yet so his lines don't work. I doubt kids who didn't get powers would not be able to talk about a weird chalkman character.

Carrier
May 12, 2009


420...69...9001...


I was pretty disappointed, thought The Rithmatist was much better.

veekie
Dec 25, 2007

Dice of Chaos


Democratic Pirate posted:

Rithmatist: I'm leaning towards the main character does have powers, based on the weird thing that happened in the chamber, but doesn't believe it yet so his lines don't work. I doubt kids who didn't get powers would not be able to talk about a weird chalkman character.

I suspect he has a different kind of chalk powers.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012





So, with all the signings happening, is anyone going to be in a position to go to one of them?

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?









College Slice

He had 2 signings in the Chicago area that I knew of and I wasn't able to make either because I was busy doing training. :(

Maybe he'll hit Illinois again for Words of Radiance.

Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

INSERT QUACK TO CONTINUE




Taco Defender

He hits up Seattle on pretty much every tour (as do most authors I follow), so if I don't see him this time around, I'll go the next time he's in town.

404GoonNotFound
Aug 6, 2006

The McRib is back!?!?


Kreeblah posted:

He hits up Seattle on pretty much every tour (as do most authors I follow), so if I don't see him this time around, I'll go the next time he's in town.

Just remember that Steelhunt codes will be deactivated if they're posted in open forums in plain view.

PMs, however.... :devil:

Tunicate
May 15, 2012





Kreeblah posted:

He hits up Seattle on pretty much every tour (as do most authors I follow), so if I don't see him this time around, I'll go the next time he's in town.

Ah, he's hitting Seattle exactly a week from now. Would it be too much to ask for you to record it, or at least write down any questions you ask him?

quote:

Big List of Signing Locations!

Portland, OR - Powell’s Cedar Hills Crossing
Date: Tue, Oct 08, 2013 Time: 7:00 PM-10:00 pm

Los Angeles, CA - Barnes & Noble – The Grove
Date: Wed, Oct 09, 2013 Time: 7:00 PM-10:00 pm

Bay Area, CA - Books Inc.
Date: Fri, Oct 11, 2013 Time: 7:00 PM-10:00 pm

Bay Area, CA - Barnes & Noble
Date: Sat, Oct 12, 2013 Time: 5:00 PM-8:00 pm

Seattle, WA - UBooks@University Temple United Methodist Church
Date: Mon, Oct 14, 2013 Time: 7:00 PM-10:00 pm

Tacoma (Military Only), WA - Fort Lewis AAFES (military ID required)
Date: Tue, Oct 15, 2013 Time: 4:00 PM-6:00 pm

San Diego, CA - Mysterious Galaxy
Date: Wed, Oct 16, 2013 Time: 7:00 PM-10:00 pm

Salt Lake, UT - Barnes & Noble
Date: Sat, Oct 19, 2013 Time: 7:00 PM-10:00 pm

New York, NY - Paolini, Dashner & Sanderson at the 92nd Street Y
Date: Sat, Nov 16, 2013 Time: 3:00 PM

Colorado Springs, CO - Superstars Writing Seminars
Date: Thu, Feb 06, 2014 - Sat, Feb 08, 2014

Provo, UT - Life, the Universe, & Everything 32
Date: Thu, Feb 13, 2014 - Sat, Feb 15, 2014

Atlanta, GA - JordanCon 6
Date: Fri, Apr 11, 2014 - Sun, Apr 13, 2014

Baltimore, MD - Balticon 48
Date: Fri, May 23, 2014 - Mon, May 26, 2014

Salt Lake, UT - Westercon 67 / CONduit 24
Date: Thu, Jul 03, 2014 - Sun, Jul 06, 2014

Avilés, Spain - Celsius 232
Date: Wed, Jul 30, 2014 - Sat, Aug 02, 2014

EDIT: I just spammed half the thread in PMs. I hope this is acceptable - I heard apparently they look down on people begging publicly or something.

Tunicate fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Oct 8, 2013

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Kreeblah
May 17, 2004

INSERT QUACK TO CONTINUE




Taco Defender

Tunicate posted:

Ah, he's hitting Seattle exactly a week from now. Would it be too much to ask for you to record it, or at least write down any questions you ask him?

EDIT: I just spammed half the thread in PMs. I hope this is acceptable - I heard apparently they look down on people begging publicly or something.

I have no idea how well my new phone would record something like that, but I can give it a go if I'm there. If that turns out crappy or something, then at the very least, I can take notes about what gets asked. And thanks for the PM. I'll have to read through that stuff after I'm done with the new Scott Lynch book (which just came out).

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