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BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

canyoneer posted:

Intel's earnings call has some neat stuff in it. They say they expect to ship the 3D X Point "Optane" SSDs by the end of the year.

They're almost certainly going to be the things only of multimedia workstations and trust fund enthusiasts at first, though. Wouldn't shock me in the least if the only board you'll be able to use them on at the enthusiast level will be a special trim of the X99's successor.

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Rastor
Jun 2, 2001



BIG HEADLINE posted:

They're almost certainly going to be the things only of multimedia workstations and trust fund enthusiasts at first, though. Wouldn't shock me in the least if the only board you'll be able to use them on at the enthusiast level will be a special trim of the X99's successor.

3D Xpoint is going to come in PCIe NVMe and DRAM interface versions, I expect the NVMe version to be widely compatible but yeah don't expect to be able to afford one for quite a while.

~Coxy
Dec 9, 2003

R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD

mayodreams posted:

When I had ThinkPads for work, disabled that loving thing in the BIOS.

Unfortunately on Latitudes you need to run the lovely Alps software at startup to disable it (and the bonus mouse buttons.)

Gabriel S.
May 20, 2006
EVERY MORNING I WAKE UP AND OPEN PALM SLAM TURDS INTO MY MOUTH


canyoneer posted:

Intel's earnings call has some neat stuff in it. They say they expect to ship the 3D X Point "Optane" SSDs by the end of the year.

I didn't listening to the earnings call however it doesn't appear that we'll see Kaby Lake until Q1 '17. That's whole 6 months until Apple, Lenovo, Microsoft, etc. release new hardware.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


What exactly is NVMe, anyway?

PCjr sidecar
Jan 26, 2011

dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme



PerrineClostermann posted:

What exactly is NVMe, anyway?

Flash (or PCM or whatever) over PCIe instead of SATA/SAS. It's fast.

BurritoJustice
Oct 9, 2012



PerrineClostermann posted:

What exactly is NVMe, anyway?

It's a storage protocol (think AHCI or IDE), that is made to handle both the increased throughput of PCI-E as well as the random access speeds of SSDs.

It's distinct from PCIE/SATA (interfaces) and M.2/SATA (connectors).

Yes it's all a bit of letter soup.

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.


Tab8715 posted:

I didn't listening to the earnings call however it doesn't appear that we'll see Kaby Lake until Q1 '17. That's whole 6 months until Apple, Lenovo, Microsoft, etc. release new hardware.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10503...-core-kaby-lake

Looks like fall this year!

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

I'm not sure what to take from this:

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/hi...her-socket.html

I can't figure if that first diagram means the Skylake-X processor will control "up to" 44 PCIe 3.0 lanes on its own total, or if the PCH 'southbridge' it seems to be connected to will control an additional 24 PCIe lanes for things like NVMe drives. If so, I think I've found my upgrade point. Hopefully they make an eight-core Sky-X.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

BIG HEADLINE posted:

I'm not sure what to take from this:

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/hi...her-socket.html

I can't figure if that first diagram means the Skylake-X processor will control "up to" 44 PCIe 3.0 lanes on its own total, or if the PCH 'southbridge' it seems to be connected to will control an additional 24 PCIe lanes for things like NVMe drives. If so, I think I've found my upgrade point. Hopefully they make an eight-core Sky-X.

Looks like a 6, 8 and 10 core Skylake-X! And since the Skylake-X uses the same PCH as the Kaby Lake-X it could be up to 24 PCH PCIe lanes plus 44 CPU lanes.. Crazy!

Yeah I'd love to get the 8 core too. Gonna be tough to hold off on the upgrade til 2H 2017 though.

Gabriel S.
May 20, 2006
EVERY MORNING I WAKE UP AND OPEN PALM SLAM TURDS INTO MY MOUTH



I am reading this roadmap correctly? Intel Readies New NUCs Based on Kaby Lake and Apollo Lake SoCs

All the NUCs with Kaby Lake don't appear until Q1 '17.

Eletriarnation
Apr 6, 2005

People don't appreciate the substance of things...
objects in space.



Oven Wrangler

Timelines for general Kaby Lake availability and for Kaby Lake NUC availability specifically won't necessarily line up. Skylake also took a few months, I think.

suck my woke dick
Oct 10, 2012

I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!


Twerk from Home posted:

I go the other way and turn off the trackpad in the BIOS, the nipple mouse is vastly superior. I've got a Dell Latitude right now and it's got a decent nipple mouse.
Also, there doesn't exist a trackpad in the world that isn't garbage. Even apple trackpads are merely less garbage, not good.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

It is unforgivable how Apple led the trend of not having actual buttons.

ZobarStyl
Oct 24, 2005

This isn't a war, it's a moider.

canyoneer posted:

Intel's earnings call has some neat stuff in it. They say they expect to ship the 3D X Point "Optane" SSDs by the end of the year.
Has there been any details about the form factor or compatibility of Optane? I really don't want to sidegrade from Skylake to Kaby Lake for storage alone.

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you


ZobarStyl posted:

Has there been any details about the form factor or compatibility of Optane? I really don't want to sidegrade from Skylake to Kaby Lake for storage alone.

Not that I've heard but this

BIG HEADLINE posted:

They're almost certainly going to be the things only of multimedia workstations and trust fund enthusiasts at first, though. Wouldn't shock me in the least if the only board you'll be able to use them on at the enthusiast level will be a special trim of the X99's successor.

is probably going to be the case. I have no idea if we'll even see the Optane stuff outside of the data center in 2016

Aquila
Jan 24, 2003



ZobarStyl posted:

Has there been any details about the form factor or compatibility of Optane? I really don't want to sidegrade from Skylake to Kaby Lake for storage alone.

I talked to people at conferences who've used both the DIMM form factor and regular nvme pcie versions of Optane/3dxpoint. I strongly expect all optane devices to be big data center only for at least a year. Hell remember that even the original P3700 devices were nearly impossible for smaller shops to get for six months+

I'm very interested in getting the DIMM stuff into the hands of all the db developers (sql, kvp, etc) as it's a sea change to have all your ram be non volatile and to have 10x as much of it. From what I've seen so far no one (people, operating systems, kernels, db software) has any inkling of what to do with it.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Aquila posted:

From what I've seen so far no one (people, operating systems, kernels, db software) has any inkling of what to do with it.

Stop doing garbage collection 'cuz you've got "so much more space" now?

eames
May 9, 2009



PC Watch posted this:



Looks like high end iGPUs (GT4e) died a fiery death. That would also explain the massive delays across Apple's mac product line.
Imagine Mr. Ive sitting on his finalized design for a new Retina Macbook Pro thin enough to slice cheese and then learning that he'll have to make room for another 45W chip (dGPU) because that planned GT4e CPU is not going to happen.

Coffee Lake looks to be another 14nm design (tock #4?)

eames fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Jul 21, 2016

mmkay
Oct 21, 2010


DrDork posted:

Stop doing garbage collection 'cuz you've got "so much more space" now?

Remember that since the memory is persistent any memory leak in say the kernel won't be solved by restarting the machine. Also stuff like data corruption coupled with application/OS crash also brings their own set of problems.

SuperDucky
May 13, 2007

by exmarx


BIG HEADLINE posted:

I'm not sure what to take from this:

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/hi...her-socket.html

I can't figure if that first diagram means the Skylake-X processor will control "up to" 44 PCIe 3.0 lanes on its own total, or if the PCH 'southbridge' it seems to be connected to will control an additional 24 PCIe lanes for things like NVMe drives. If so, I think I've found my upgrade point. Hopefully they make an eight-core Sky-X.

Yes, DP Skylake lanes

e: Coffee Lake looks to be another 14nm design (tock #4?)
also yes, it was also a surprise (lol)

japtor
Oct 28, 2005
WELL ARNT I JUST MR. LA DE FUCKEN DA. oh yea and i suck cocks too


BIG HEADLINE posted:

I'm not sure what to take from this:

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/hi...her-socket.html

I can't figure if that first diagram means the Skylake-X processor will control "up to" 44 PCIe 3.0 lanes on its own total, or if the PCH 'southbridge' it seems to be connected to will control an additional 24 PCIe lanes for things like NVMe drives. If so, I think I've found my upgrade point. Hopefully they make an eight-core Sky-X.
Skylake-X sounds like the usual Xeon EP derived part, so it could be on the CPU...then again there was that big rear end LGA3647 socket shown a while back. It shows Broadwell-E there as "40/28 lanes", how are those laid out, or does it just vary by model/core count?

Kinda curious about Kaby Lake-X since it doesn't seem like a huge difference from the standard -S, just fastest/hottest Kaby Lake and LGA2066 boards? (And presumably for a large price premium)

eames posted:

PC Watch posted this:



Looks like high end iGPUs (GT4e) died a fiery death. That would also explain the massive delays across Apple's mac product line.
Imagine Mr. Ive sitting on his finalized design for a new Retina Macbook Pro thin enough to slice cheese and then learning that he'll have to make room for another 45W chip (dGPU) because that planned GT4e CPU is not going to happen.

Coffee Lake looks to be another 14nm design (tock #4?)
So Skull Canyon's CPU is getting killed off right after they finally shipped them?

As for MBPs you know they'd just be like "gently caress it, GT3e it is" if it comes down to that. It'll be all about those Thunderbolt GPUs from now on anyway

SuperDucky
May 13, 2007

by exmarx


Yeah they must really be having yield issues with that L4 cache...

Of course, the most compelling upgrade reason in 3 years and they kill it off.

japtor posted:

Skylake-X sounds like the usual Xeon EP derived part, so it could be on the CPU...then again there was that big rear end LGA3647 socket shown a while back. It shows Broadwell-E there as "40/28 lanes", how are those laid out, or does it just vary by model/core count?

All E5-26XX v4 have 40 lanes/proc, just like Haswell (v3) if that answers your question.

SuperDucky fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Jul 21, 2016

Krailor
Nov 2, 2001
I'm only pretending to care

Taco Defender

I'm excited that it looks like they're finally going to increase the core count on mainstream processors to 6....in 2018.

dont be mean to me
May 2, 2007

I'm interplanetary, bitch
Let's go to Mars




SuperDucky posted:

Yeah they must really be having yield issues with that L4 cache...

Of course, the most compelling upgrade reason in 3 years and they kill it off.

I'm going to end up riding my 2500K into the ground, aren't I.

japtor
Oct 28, 2005
WELL ARNT I JUST MR. LA DE FUCKEN DA. oh yea and i suck cocks too


Krailor posted:

I'm excited that it looks like they're finally going to increase the core count on mainstream processors to 6....in 2018.
Mobile processors!

Speaking of core count, I think I'm gonna finally start a PC build and wondering how long I can get away with an i3 (or Pentium I guess?), or should I just spend the extra chunk for an i5 now for the extra cores? Going for something like a low end setup, but I'm hoping has enough longevity at lower settings or with simpler games to last a while.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames


Salad Prong

japtor posted:

Mobile processors!

Speaking of core count, I think I'm gonna finally start a PC build and wondering how long I can get away with an i3 (or Pentium I guess?), or should I just spend the extra chunk for an i5 now for the extra cores? Going for something like a low end setup, but I'm hoping has enough longevity at lower settings or with simpler games to last a while.

If you plan to play any sort of modern games, an i5 for more cores is definitely the way to go.

NewFatMike
Jun 11, 2015



i5+RX470/480/GTX1060 is shaping up to be the way to go this gen, should handle 1080p games with the 480/1060 largely indefinitely? If you plan on holding onto things for 3+ years, a Freesync monitor with the 480 is a combo that Nvidia can't really counter.

Also "Oh the Intel thread blew up, must be good news about Kaby Lake!" nope, HMS Boromir is using a crappy monitor.

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

Bote McBoteface. so what


Sormus posted:

Standard ball mice? Dear sirs, it is trackball or death

I actually used one of these, for gaming even, for quite a few years:
amazon.com/Logitech-TrackMan-Marble-Wheel-Mac/dp/B00004L8IG

Ak Gara posted:

I'm glad the clitoris fell out of favour. Those were annoying.

[edit] https://xkcd.com/243/

Not only is the Trackpoint great, I actually use one of these things (although mine is the US standard keyboard version,) which is kind of like the whole keyboard/wristrest surface area from an old IBM Thinkpad:



It's great, it's got a 2-port USB2 hub and combines all the best inputs from a Thinkpad; I use it for any work I have to do on a [otherwise typically] headless system or for newer system builds/rebuilds. The only issue is that since it's over a decade old, Windows 10 installs Synaptic drivers for it (which are just wrong) so the touchpad & Trackpoint stop working until you manually update/revert them (which you only have to do once) but that requires either just using the keyboard & tabbing around, or adding a temporary mouse.

blowfish posted:

Also, there doesn't exist a trackpad in the world that isn't garbage. Even apple trackpads are merely less garbage, not good.

Counterpoint: Google Pixel's glass trackpad.

NewFatMike posted:

i5+RX470/480/GTX1060 is shaping up to be the way to go this gen, should handle 1080p games with the 480/1060 largely indefinitely? If you plan on holding onto things for 3+ years, a Freesync monitor with the 480 is a combo that Nvidia can't really counter.

Also "Oh the Intel thread blew up, must be good news about Kaby Lake!" nope, HMS Boromir is using a crappy monitor.

Yeah, it was slow otherwise in here. I did want to add that part of the reason I was being so insistent is because of my experience with this system:

It's a Toshiba Satellite U845W-S400, a weird laptop with a 21:9 display. It's really only ideal for watching widescreen video and side-by-side multitasking, but it's nice because you can easily view wide content, use the whole display (contrasted with my Pixel's nice but 3:2 display,) while keeping the rest of the system very compact and portable. The sticking point is that the resolution is only 1792 x 768, which is fine when watching video but that vertical resolution is pretty limiting, particularly on Windows 10; some of the system windows don't even expect to launch on a display that shallow, so they extend beneath the taskbar. That's why I can't imagine Boromir actually enjoying his 1366x768 display, he's just being too goddamn stubborn about the whole situation.

Ak Gara
Jul 29, 2005

That's just the way he rolls.

Krailor posted:

I'm excited that it looks like they're finally going to increase the core count on mainstream processors to 6....in 2018.

Why don't they just make each transistor it's own core? 1.7 billion core aaah yeah!

...Games still programmed for 4.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

My guess is Kaby Lake-X will be a 5Ghz+ stock chip, while Skylake-X will be 4-4.5Ghz stock. The K-classes, of course, will be the more "affordable" SKUs, as Sky-X will supposedly cost $1500 for the ten-core.

Nomyth
Mar 15, 2013

And if a Nyto get a attitude
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot


BIG HEADLINE posted:

My guess is Kaby Lake-X will be a 5Ghz+ stock chip

Please don't play with my heart.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:

Please don't play with my heart.

It makes sense with the quoted TDP on that chart. *shrugs*

Nomyth
Mar 15, 2013

And if a Nyto get a attitude
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot


I, too, am also hopeful for a processor that can spit out DX9/11 draw calls like an open fire hydrant.

However, I'm not sure I can expect an architecture that's made on a process theoretically more prone to electromigration than its larger predecessors to suddenly be able to handle the voltage needed to push silicon to the highest reliable limit it's ever had before. Yes, I recall the AMD FX-9590.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through


Atomizer posted:

I actually used one of these, for gaming even, for quite a few years:
amazon.com/Logitech-TrackMan-Marble-Wheel-Mac/dp/B00004L8IG


Not only is the Trackpoint great, I actually use one of these things (although mine is the US standard keyboard version,) which is kind of like the whole keyboard/wristrest surface area from an old IBM Thinkpad:



It's great, it's got a 2-port USB2 hub and combines all the best inputs from a Thinkpad; I use it for any work I have to do on a [otherwise typically] headless system or for newer system builds/rebuilds. The only issue is that since it's over a decade old, Windows 10 installs Synaptic drivers for it (which are just wrong) so the touchpad & Trackpoint stop working until you manually update/revert them (which you only have to do once) but that requires either just using the keyboard & tabbing around, or adding a temporary mouse.


Counterpoint: Google Pixel's glass trackpad.


Yeah, it was slow otherwise in here. I did want to add that part of the reason I was being so insistent is because of my experience with this system:

It's a Toshiba Satellite U845W-S400, a weird laptop with a 21:9 display. It's really only ideal for watching widescreen video and side-by-side multitasking, but it's nice because you can easily view wide content, use the whole display (contrasted with my Pixel's nice but 3:2 display,) while keeping the rest of the system very compact and portable. The sticking point is that the resolution is only 1792 x 768, which is fine when watching video but that vertical resolution is pretty limiting, particularly on Windows 10; some of the system windows don't even expect to launch on a display that shallow, so they extend beneath the taskbar. That's why I can't imagine Boromir actually enjoying his 1366x768 display, he's just being too goddamn stubborn about the whole situation.

Man, nothing would make me happier than seeing an updated VAIO P, from the new VAIO company or some other OEM. I know like only 5 people would buy it, but whatever. Hi-res display, modern silicon, macOS (lol. But windows 10 is serviceable), and pocketable. Delightful. The iPad Mini is close, but too deep / narrow.

japtor
Oct 28, 2005
WELL ARNT I JUST MR. LA DE FUCKEN DA. oh yea and i suck cocks too


Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:

Please don't play with my heart.
It might explain where those 5 ghz Xeon rumors from a while back came from . I was thinking the same thing too though, other than socket for fancier chipset, the only thing that stands out (in that chart at least) is that TDP.

ignore that the other spec details of the rumor don't match

EdEddnEddy
Apr 5, 2012





Back on the ball mouse talk for a bit, I was cleaning out an old clients server room and came across a serial Microsoft mouse new in its bag. I remember getting one of these when I was a kid for my parents IBM 20 (thats what they called it, not sure exactly what it was. It played some DOS games like Treasure Island and Space Invaders like a champ, but the first game to use the mouse itself was Playroom I believe. Man that was old.)

Was kinda sad to throw it away as it practically was a piece of history.


On the CPU talk. I look forward to the new memory/storage tech, but it looks I will probably be able to hold off on a new PC build until 2018 at the earliest. Even the new Titan X (WTF Nvidia?) sort of disappoints me. Happy I built my system the way I did in 2013 though. However I do so wish AMD could release something to put at least a little competition into the market. These $1500 Enthusiast CPU's are downright stupid as hell.

Nomyth
Mar 15, 2013

And if a Nyto get a attitude
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot


BIG HEADLINE posted:

It makes sense with the quoted TDP on that chart. *shrugs*

japtor posted:

It might explain where those 5 ghz Xeon rumors from a while back came from . I was thinking the same thing too though, other than socket for fancier chipset, the only thing that stands out (in that chart at least) is that TDP.

ignore that the other spec details of the rumor don't match

After another look and another thought, the difference in power draw between the Kaby Lakes could partially be from a different memory controller, as well as having to interface with the beefier HEDT chipset through the megahuge socket. Kaby Lake-X looks to be projected to run DDR4-2666 standard, which is a step up from KBL-S.

This assumes that KBL-X is actually different silicon from the latter, instead of a direct transplant for binned chips to the X platform. Very strange that Intel didn't just go for 4-core Skylake-Xs--could it be related to the statements that 14nm was starting to have great yields and is shipping right now?

EDIT: I guess we have to find out if this SKU is supposed to be a design for entry-level consumers or something. Some people justify buying HEDT mobos/CPUs with their desire for extra PCIe lanes from the CPU. Why remove that option just to shoehorn Kaby Lake in there, unless the only goal is the possibility of cost-cutting somehow (and hopefully, price-cutting)?

Nomyth fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Jul 22, 2016

EdEddnEddy
Apr 5, 2012





Wait, finally looking over that Guru3D link, wtf is with the -X stuff now? Is it just a placeholder or will the same socket be used on both platforms now (or just 1 platform and your CPU decides some of the features directly?) Why change from the tried and true "New Gen Chip" "New - E Gen Chip with delayed name"? While it is partially confusing it will remain a lot less confusing than making everything -X with the same Current/Post naming schemes where the older name is actually the bigger multicore chip and such.

Guess we will see as the time gets closer, but still. Confusing.

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BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

X = Extreme Edition. I don't think they're getting rid of the K chips.

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