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Walked
Apr 14, 2003



Twerk from Home posted:

Do you have any details? This is a pretty big deal if so, even though those CPUs themselves were super cheap they were integrated into some pretty drat expensive complete systems. I was thinking about a Denverton 8 core NAS whenever those roll around, but this is pretty alarming.

http://www.intel.com/content/dam/ww...spec-update.pdf

Page 34.
AVR54

It starting making the rounds as a Cisco failure; but it was then revealed that the failing component in those Cisco systems was the Atom C2000 series processors. Then Intel released that document.

Doesnt look pretty.

quote:

AVR54. System May Experience Inability to Boot or May Cease Operation

Problem: The SoC LPC_CLKOUT0 and/or LPC_CLKOUT1 signals (Low Pin Count bus clock
outputs) may stop functioning.

Implication: If the LPC clock(s) stop functioning the system will no longer be able to boot.

Workaround: A platform level change has been identified and may be implemented as a workaround
for this erratum.

Status: For the steppings affected, see Table 1, “Errata Summary Table” on page 9.

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Toast Museum
Dec 3, 2005

30% Iron Chef


Walked posted:

Anyone keeping track of this fun clock issue that's making the rounds?

Apparently Atom C2xxx series processors have a known fault where they will fail hard after ~18month.

I have a DS1515+ thats 17 months old, too.


gently caress. I'm in the same boat, just with a little more time on the clock. Thanks for the heads-up.

Walked
Apr 14, 2003



Toast Museum posted:

gently caress. I'm in the same boat, just with a little more time on the clock. Thanks for the heads-up.



I'm running my DS1515+ backups through a new level of scrutiny right now. Fortunately it's mostly media; but I'd rather not have to re-create any of it.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


Twerk from Home posted:

Do you have any details? This is a pretty big deal if so, even though those CPUs themselves were super cheap they were integrated into some pretty drat expensive complete systems. I was thinking about a Denverton 8 core NAS whenever those roll around, but this is pretty alarming.

Well drat http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/0...onent_may_fail/

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Malcolm XML posted:

The EU already sued Intel for a paltry rear end 1 bil eurobucks

Intel has nothing to fear
If the EU can't seem to make their budgets work, they'll draw up some more weak-rear end consumer protection bullshit and sue some more.

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002






Walked posted:

http://www.intel.com/content/dam/ww...spec-update.pdf

Page 34.
AVR54

It starting making the rounds as a Cisco failure; but it was then revealed that the failing component in those Cisco systems was the Atom C2000 series processors. Then Intel released that document.

Doesnt look pretty.
lmao

is there a high volume market that intel HASN'T amusingly hosed up in any way yet this year

NihilismNow
Aug 31, 2003


Even if AMD goes under there is still Via Eden. Not much worse competition than constructor cores really.

EdEddnEddy
Apr 5, 2012





That sell replacement for W3.1 is pretty awesome, I may have to boot up the old Acer P66 and see if I can get that working.

Also I have my old P3 933 still around with Win 98SE on it for some legacy gaming but the one game I just cannot get to run correctly, emulated or otherwise, is Mechwarrior 2. It's DOS only and drat if I can't get any soundcard I can to work with it in DOS. It seems to pretty much need a ISA soundcard to work correctly and the lowest I was able to get was a PCI SB16 card.

MW2 Mercs and others work great in Windows at least, and there was an unofficial Service Pack for Win98SE that makes it much more stable over what that OS ran patched up from a fresh install, no matter what hardware it seems. (This same hardware ran 98SE/ME/XP through it's life and outside of burning out a PCI Voodoo Banshee (now has an AGP Banshee in it) runs like a top.

Another interesting probably speed/16bit related glitch I remember seeing is two games that seem to have a 1Ghz clock limit before they start acting wonky.

Need for Speed Porsche unleashed and Railroad Tycoon 3.

Both games work and look great below 1Ghz. The second you try to use them >1ghz, they force some sort of super low graphics setting that no setting under their options menu is able to overcome. Porsche Unleashed looks terrible and the textures are reduced to the lowest res, and RT3 does the same with the wheels being spinning square boxes of blurry muck, same with the smoke and everything else really.

The games work fine, just look terrible. Throw it on my laptop with low power mode forcing it to stay at 800Mhz and everything is just fine.

Apparently there is an unofficial patch for RT3 that fixes this among other things, but I haven't found anything to fix it for NFS PU except the lower mhz fix.

Goof stuff old tech.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


NihilismNow posted:

Even if AMD goes under there is still Via Eden. Not much worse competition than constructor cores really.

Via doesn't have the license to x86-64 though, right?

Rastor
Jun 2, 2001



PerrineClostermann posted:

Via doesn't have the license to x86-64 though, right?

The VIA code name "Isaiah" chips released starting in 2008 support x86-64, MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, and SSE4.

https://www.extremetech.com/computi...ah-architecture

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



If Intel, AMD, and all their assets disappeared overnight, how long do you think it would take for people to stop hoarding Intel/AMD chips like holy relics and start using VIA’s latest and greatest?

Probably forever because everyone would switch architectures before VIA caught up.

NihilismNow
Aug 31, 2003


Appearently the fastest Via is the quad core 2.0 ghz E series. The 1.6 Ghz version of that board is slightly faster than a AMD E350 so you're looking at least at 2012-2013 low end performance. Up to 16 GB DDR 1333, 4x PCIe slot. Price is not to great at $330 though.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_loo...02.0GHz&id=2618

It gets beat by CPUs from 2007—quite possibly earlier, but that’s as far back as PassMark’s database goes.

eames
May 9, 2009



re AVR54, apparently the fix is "a minor silicone tweak".

I set up a DS1515+ connected to a pfsense firewall and VPN into that with another pfsense box last December.
As far as I can tell all use the same C-2000 series CPUs so the race is on.

The 1515+ seems to have a 3 year warranty but the Netgate pfsense boxes only come with 1 year (which already expired). There is probably going to be a lot of bad blood if they just leave their customers SOL.
On the other hand every single
device they make is affected and they aren't making billions from other products like Cisco, so what else can they do. Wouldn't want to be in their shoes!

NihilismNow
Aug 31, 2003


Platystemon posted:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_loo...02.0GHz&id=2618

It gets beat by CPUs from 2007—quite possibly earlier, but that’s as far back as PassMark’s database goes.

That is why i specified low end, it still beats a 2015 Intel N3700, most of the A4 APU's and gets close to the J2900. So 2013 low end is about right.

Monteunicorn
Jun 19, 2004


Combat Pretzel posted:

If the EU can't seem to make their budgets work, they'll draw up some more weak-rear end consumer protection bullshit and sue some more.

Yes, this is exactly how it works.

http://curia.europa.eu/juris/docume...rt=1&cid=265926

Josh Lyman
May 24, 2009





Lol at people talking about VIA like they haven't been irrelevant since the Bush presidency.

EdEddnEddy
Apr 5, 2012





Honestly, I haven't heard about anything VIA since then so yea. They ain't going to just come back from the undead at this point even if AMD and Intel fall apart. Watch Qualcomm and Nvidia take that torch first.

Unless VIA has a bigger enterprise presence then I know about...?

Rastor
Jun 2, 2001



I wonder if the main use of VIA processors is to be in ATM machines running eComStation.

If so,

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

I remember VIA being the worst AMD chipsets ever. Goddamn things were incredibly unstable.

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002






Rastor posted:

I wonder if the main use of VIA processors is to be in ATM machines running eComStation.

If so,
Yep. They cost like nothing and use no power though

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985


redeyes posted:

I remember VIA being the worst AMD chipsets ever. Goddamn things were incredibly unstable.

Via. The nForce2 by comparison was excellent at the time. I miss Abit.

JnnyThndrs
May 29, 2001

HERE ARE THE FUCKING TOWELS

redeyes posted:

I remember VIA being the worst AMD chipsets ever. Goddamn things were incredibly unstable.

Their Intel chipsets were no better. I fought with a Via Apollo 694A dual-socket mobo for the better part of two years that would occasionally spontaneously reboot when you loaded both IDE channels at the same time, and their Sound Blaster bug was well-known.

And their super-7 poo poo was even worse, but all super-7 poo poo was bad, so

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

So I really hope that it's true that Intel has their panties in a bunch over the Ryzen and that I can net either a cheaper i7-6900K or whatever Skylake equivalent there'll be this summer/fall.

Rastor
Jun 2, 2001



The impression I get is less that Intel has their panties in a bunch and more that a dog sleeping in the sun is being annoyed by a fly and might actually stand up for the first time in hours.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Rastor posted:

The impression I get is less that Intel has their panties in a bunch and more that a dog sleeping in the sun is being annoyed by a fly and might actually stand up for the first time in hours.

To then go take a leak on the shub with a small "Cisco" placard next to it.

Who wants to bet Intel tries to offer a fix to vendors, but lets the vendors absorb all the costs associated with conducting the inevitable warranty repairs? Like "ok, here's a free replacement chip (that cost us $1 to fabricate). Now you deal with paying for shipping all your products back and forth at hilarious aggregate cost."

EdEddnEddy
Apr 5, 2012





I am lucky that since 2000 almost all the boards I have built with were ASUS with a side of ASRock and hah, ECS on a few super budget builds (though those drat things still work to this day..) but I missed the VIA/Abit realm a little which sounds like a good thing outside of the systems that I had to try and fix running them. I have been on both sides of Liking/Hating Abit but I don't think I have met a VIA powered device that I would have recommend to anyone back then.

Also nForce boards were....iffy. One thing is for sure, compared to Intel chipsets they ran hot as hell, but they were fast. Just don't have all the slots used that you could use without some major active cooling on the NB, but this goes for anything Intel and overclocked as well at the time, just with nForce, you needed it even not overclocked.


Ahh the good (and sometimes bad) old days...

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003


Hello darkness,
my old friend


The worst platform I ever used was on AMD Socket 754 when I got the "cheap" Athlon 64 on an Asus KT800 board. That chipset was the absolute worst piece of trash I've ever dealt with. If you put a PCI card into any slot, it would cut the AGP performance in half. I couldn't figure out why my games played like poo poo. Turns out it was the hardware NIC I bought because the onboard NIC sucked rear end. I ended up replacing that board with a DFI Nforce 3 which was less persnickety, but that thing ran for years afterwords.

eames
May 9, 2009



Vendors are now reacting to the 18-month timebomb errata. None of them are allowed to mention the component or company, Synology even had to pull a statement because they mentioned Intel.

Pfsense/Netgate vowed to replace all affected units within 3 years of purchase which seems fair.

https://blog.pfsense.org/?p=2297

Still, having a ticking timebomb as a firewall which is often a single point of failure feels bad.

edit: better link:

https://www.servethehome.com/intel-...ries-bug-quiet/

servethehome posted:

Our educated guess is that Intel may have tied access to those reserve funds to signing an NDA for not discussing the issue.

eames fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Feb 7, 2017

Gyrotica
Nov 26, 2012

Grafted to machines your builders did not understand.

Those that do will not suddenly stop working, but if the component fails, the system will not successfully reboot.

So you won't know if you have a problem unless you have to reboot and it bricks. Hope you aren't running Jurassic Park's security on that thing.

mewse
May 2, 2006




Life... finds a way

Lowen SoDium
Jun 5, 2003

Highen Fiber


Clapping Larry

I have nearly 50 devices worldwide we have to replace because of this that are all less than 1 year old.

Not looking forward to it.

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002






eames posted:

Vendors are now reacting to the 18-month timebomb errata. None of them is allowed to mention the component or company, Synology even had to pull a statement because they mentioned Intel.

Pfsense/Netgate vowed to replace all affected units within 3 years of purchase which seems fair.

https://blog.pfsense.org/?p=2297

Still, having a ticking timebomb as a firewall which is often a single point of failure feels bad.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Oh geez, NASes and such. That's gonna be a lot of hassle.

EdEddnEddy
Apr 5, 2012





Guess it is a good thing that all my NAS's run on AMD at home lol. Still that is a lovely issue that is going to be bad for those that don't realize it's going to be an issue until it's too late.

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.


When did Xeon-Ds launch? What if it turns out every one of those bursts into flames at exactly 30 months old?

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.


Lmao at all these scrubs who have important systems on non-redundant multiply sourced products

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.


Malcolm XML posted:

Lmao at all these scrubs who have important systems on non-redundant multiply sourced products

OK wise guy lets see you multiply source x86 CPUs in 2017.

Boiled Water
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER


I wonder what my cloud provider will do about this. I imagine something and also won't have to do anything about it.

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PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


Twerk from Home posted:

OK wise guy lets see you multiply source x86 CPUs in 2017.

Okay. Watch this.



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