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Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


BobHoward posted:

I would take that with more than a few grains of salt. Semiaccurate is, well, look at the name. The guy who created and runs the site holds tons of grudges against particular companies because their PR departments pissed him off this one time. Not where you go to read accurate, levelheaded, technically competent analysis.

Charlie is a smart guy, he's maybe half a notch below Kanter or Waisson in my book, but oh man can the guy hold a grudge and it really colors all his analysis, so yeah, take what he says with a huge grain of salt. There may be some nuggets of truth in his technical analyses but you're gonna have to dig.

Remember a couple weeks ago at Ryzen's launch when he was sperging out about Intel reps "twisting arms"? (i.e. giving the usual counterpoints any company gives when their competitors launch?)

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Mar 30, 2017

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Eletriarnation
Apr 6, 2005

People don't appreciate the substance of things...
objects in space.



Oven Wrangler

redeyes posted:

Not sure what you mean by embedded but those are socket 1151.

There's a specific category of processors labeled embedded, the website even allows you to sort for it. Not sure if that means there's a BGA alternative as well but the tooltip on the spec sheets indicates that those models have extended availability so that embedded systems can be designed around them and not have to change to a new platform halfway through the lifecycle. Thus, not really intended for direct retail to consumers as you observed.

AARP LARPer
Feb 19, 2005



THE DARK SIDE OF SCIENCE BREEDS A WEAPON OF WAR


Buglord

Rastor posted:

Hey WAR DOGS OF SOCHI I mentioned the prototype before but this is now live on Kickstarter for purchase

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...for-high-perfo/

Woah. Awesome. Thanks!

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull


Paul MaudDib posted:

Charlie is a smart guy, he's maybe half a notch below Kanter or Waisson in my book, but oh man can the guy hold a grudge and it really colors all his analysis, so yeah, take what he says with a huge grain of salt. There may be some nuggets of truth in his technical analyses but you're gonna have to dig.

IDK who Waisson is, but David Kanter is in an entirely different league from Charlie. Kanter has done real engineering work on very interesting things (transactional memory). He's an actual expert on a lot of the things he writes about, and knows enough to be aware of what he doesn't know on the rest. Charlie (as far as I know) hasn't had a professional career outside of his brand of tech journalism. (Before he created S-A, he was a writer for The Register, so it's pretty easy to see where he got his predilection for tabloid-style overdramatic reporting from.)

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



Just a few weeks ago Charlie was ranting about how he wasn't going to be allowed in the Optane press week stuff and therefore Intel was up to no good. I guess they let him in but they are still up to no good.

I rarely read SA but him saying Intel was the gold standard in press info is surprising becausei always remember him always making GBS threads on them for one reason or another

WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Mar 30, 2017

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull


Eletriarnation posted:

There's a specific category of processors labeled embedded, the website even allows you to sort for it. Not sure if that means there's a BGA alternative as well but the tooltip on the spec sheets indicates that those models have extended availability so that embedded systems can be designed around them and not have to change to a new platform halfway through the lifecycle. Thus, not really intended for direct retail to consumers as you observed.

All correct except the last part. For example, the i7-7700 is considered an 'embedded' processor, and you can definitely buy that through retail.

As you say it's about availability; Intel commits to make embedded parts available for 7 years (I think?) after their launch date. Every new product line Intel launches will have at least a few speed bins chosen to be embedded. In my experience they never tag the highest frequency bins; it's always at least 1 or 2 steps back. Also, if you're looking at i3/i5/i7 instead of Xeon, 'K' parts are never embedded. My best guess is that they want to choose specs that are easy to yield, since once that CPU family isn't being sold to the mass market any more they won't be able to do much binning. As for 'K' processors, they naturally wouldn't want to permit OC in products targeted at markets that have much higher stability requirements than gaming PCs.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

BobHoward posted:

As for 'K' processors, they naturally wouldn't want to permit OC in products targeted at markets that have much higher stability requirements than gaming PCs.

The next frontier in competitive automotive ricing: overclocking.

Eletriarnation
Apr 6, 2005

People don't appreciate the substance of things...
objects in space.



Oven Wrangler

BobHoward posted:

All correct except the last part. For example, the i7-7700 is considered an 'embedded' processor, and you can definitely buy that through retail.

It might have an embedded option but I guess I was referring specifically to the list that I linked. The only processor on that list that I've seen in a consumer system is the 7100U, and I doubt end users are installing many of those.

Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Mar 30, 2017

Captain Hair
Dec 31, 2007

Of course, that can backfire... some men like their bitches crazy.


Ah well, the xeon overclocking is finished. Unfortunately I gave her the one motherboard I had that doesn't have decent voltage settings for overclocking.

Settled at 400 fsb x 8.5 for a 3.4ghz total. It made a significant enough improvement even if it's a little lacklustre.

On a good note it stays way under 70c, only uses 1.2v max and appears totally stable (only done a few hours burn in so far).

I could go to the effort of modding a better motherboard but tbh I don't think it'd stay cool at much more than 3.6 anyway so I'm happy with 3.4.

Sininu
Jan 8, 2014



I tried undervolting my i7 47620HQ. found out that during stress tests it was totally stable til -80, BUT it kept crashing during light loads like Spotify and web browsing even at -60. How normal is this? All the material I read said that it's good to go if it's completely stable during stress test.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985




It happens, it's probably not getting enough juice at none turbo clocks.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Apr 2, 2017

eames
May 9, 2009



Tokamak posted:


eames posted:

Cannonlake to be a stacked/3D modular architecture? On-die coprocessors for native ARM code?


The article pretty much explains why it isn't likely to be real in the first couple of paragraphs. Pretty much the only reason the writer thinks it could be real is that they used an acronym of an upcoming microarchitecture in one of the drawings. It isn't really feasible with how chips are currently produced. Anyone buying them would have to get a lot of them, and you wouldn't be designing them off a website.

One of the purposes of patent drawings is to express some of the patent's embodiments (implementations). So saying a customisable chip could have the latest intel cores, FPGA... is for illustrative purposes. They need to say that it can everything, be customised however, and procured whenever to cover their bases. So going with a codename (which we've known for a year prior) for a something that isn't even out makes the most sense in that context.

This is like seeing that PS4 patent where you say 'Mcdonalds' to skip an advert, and extrapolating that Mcdonalds is so specific that there must be some deal in place for it to happen. So therefore it will happen.

http://wccftech.com/intel-kaby-lake...-gpu-multi-die/

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011






Is an i7-7700K a safe buy in the next month or so? Or is Intel going to poo poo out something better in the next couple months?

Eletriarnation
Apr 6, 2005

People don't appreciate the substance of things...
objects in space.



Oven Wrangler

The 7700K itself has been out for only a few months. I believe Coffee Lake and Skylake-E are due before the end of the year, but it seems like definitely second half for the former and probably second half for the latter.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Kazinsal posted:

Is an i7-7700K a safe buy in the next month or so? Or is Intel going to poo poo out something better in the next couple months?

The 7000 series just a couple of months ago, with the 8000 series expected sometime in "2H 2017"--so probably not until fairly late in the year, really. Either way, unless you're really hankering for a 6-core, you probably won't see big gains between the 7000 and 8000 series anyhow. So yeah, buy away.

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you


Kazinsal posted:

Is an i7-7700K a safe buy in the next month or so? Or is Intel going to poo poo out something better in the next couple months?
For a 2 month time period

Announce? Maybe, who knows.

Have available from Newegg? Almost certainly not.

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011






Good to know, thanks. I'm hitting CPU limits with an i7-3820 and a GTX 1070, so what I'm mostly looking for is the best 4C/8T I can buy.

Conveniently this leaves me with a load of DDR3 and an LGA 2011 board that I know will support a cheap eBay E5-2670 for a storage and ESXi server.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


DrDork posted:

The 7000 series just a couple of months ago, with the 8000 series expected sometime in "2H 2017"--so probably not until fairly late in the year, really. Either way, unless you're really hankering for a 6-core, you probably won't see big gains between the 7000 and 8000 series anyhow. So yeah, buy away.

There's some talk of a Devil's Canyon-style respin though (i5-7640K and i7-7740K). Possibly including moving hyperthreading down to the i5s.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Even if there is, it's unlikely to be convincingly faster, and waiting for a maybe sounds like a poor idea when he's already looking to jump four generations.

silence_kit
Jul 14, 2011


eames posted:


Tokamak posted:

The article pretty much explains why it isn't likely to be real in the first couple of paragraphs. Pretty much the only reason the writer thinks it could be real is that they used an acronym of an upcoming microarchitecture in one of the drawings. It isn't really feasible with how chips are currently produced. Anyone buying them would have to get a lot of them, and you wouldn't be designing them off a website.

One of the purposes of patent drawings is to express some of the patent's embodiments (implementations). So saying a customisable chip could have the latest intel cores, FPGA... is for illustrative purposes. They need to say that it can everything, be customised however, and procured whenever to cover their bases. So going with a codename (which we've known for a year prior) for a something that isn't even out makes the most sense in that context.

This is like seeing that PS4 patent where you say 'Mcdonalds' to skip an advert, and extrapolating that Mcdonalds is so specific that there must be some deal in place for it to happen. So therefore it will happen.

http://wccftech.com/intel-kaby-lake...-gpu-multi-die/

To be fair, I think Tokamak in that quote was arguing against the idea of Intel offering a custom multi-chip-module design, manufacturing, & assembly service and not arguing against the idea of Intel selling multi-chip-module CPUs.

silence_kit fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Apr 5, 2017

sauer kraut
Oct 2, 2004


Paul MaudDib posted:

There's some talk of a Devil's Canyon-style respin though (i5-7640K and i7-7740K). Possibly including moving hyperthreading down to the i5s.

Aren't those for the upcoming X platform replacing Broadwell-E?
The next regular consumer thing are Coffee Lake hexacore i7's in 2018.

EdEddnEddy
Apr 5, 2012





Kazinsal posted:

Good to know, thanks. I'm hitting CPU limits with an i7-3820 and a GTX 1070, so what I'm mostly looking for is the best 4C/8T I can buy.

Conveniently this leaves me with a load of DDR3 and an LGA 2011 board that I know will support a cheap eBay E5-2670 for a storage and ESXi server.

You already have the X79 platform going, why not just find a used 3930K or 4930K, overclock the crap out of it, and hold out for another year or so instead of buying into a whole new platfrom?

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011






EdEddnEddy posted:

You already have the X79 platform going, why not just find a used 3930K or 4930K, overclock the crap out of it, and hold out for another year or so instead of buying into a whole new platfrom?

Is there really much of a gaming performance gain by adding in another two SB-E or IB-E cores versus replacing four SB-E cores with four Kaby Lake cores? This is genuinely the first time I've had enough GPU power that my CPU is the bottleneck.

EdEddnEddy
Apr 5, 2012





Did you get any overclocking out of your 4 core SB-E? Going from a non K to a K version and pulling 1Ghz more clock out of it would be great even if you didn't have any extra cores, but to get 2 more and do the same is going to be a good bump.

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011






I managed to get it from 3.6 to 4.2 at 1.35V. Can't get it stable under even non-gaming loads at 4.3 with any voltage. That helped a bit but I'm still finding myself CPU bottlenecked at 1080p144 with the settings on most games between High and Ultra.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985




From the AMD thread

http://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/2875-amd-r5-1600x-1500x-review-fading-i5-argument/page-4#!/ccomment-page=1

They aren't mentioning the RAM speed for any Intel systems though? unless I missed it. Seems like a major omission?

E - LOL they deleted my comment on the article asking for Intel memory speeds!

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Apr 11, 2017

craig588
Nov 19, 2005

by Nyc_Tattoo


GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

E - LOL they deleted my comment on the article asking for Intel memory speeds!

Dave Lister? Maybe it was just a bug

MagusDraco
Nov 11, 2011

even speedwagon was trolled


Page 1 they state that they're using DDR4 at 3200mhz for all the systems that support it. For ryzen that's 2933mhz when 3200 doesn't work and for ddr3 stuff that's 2400mhz.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985




craig588 posted:

Dave Lister? Maybe it was just a bug

Must have been.

havenwaters posted:

Page 1 they state that they're using DDR4 at 3200mhz for all the systems that support it. For ryzen that's 2933mhz when 3200 doesn't work and for ddr3 stuff that's 2400mhz.

I see it now, thanks.
If the frametime consistency thing holds up when they actually max out an Intel memory controller, it's a nice chip for gaming.

Wonder what coffee lake will be like.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO fucked around with this message at 09:18 on Apr 12, 2017

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

Wonder what coffee lake will be like.

If you go by these new details on the 300-series boards, not a whole lot different than the 200-series: http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/in...t-ethernet.html

Native USB 3.1 Gen 2 and built-in Gigabit ethernet and wireless.

Guaranteed to retain the LGA 1151 socket, though.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


The Corsair 2x16GB LPX DDR4-3200 is now 60% more than what I paid for just 3 months ago.

Captain Hair
Dec 31, 2007

Of course, that can backfire... some men like their bitches crazy.


Palladium posted:

The Corsair 2x16GB LPX DDR4-3200 is now 60% more than what I paid for just 3 months ago.

No kidding, ram prices have shot up. I got 2 x 16gb corsair LPX 3000mhz about 2 months ago for £85. It's now £120. I'm guessing I got lucky and bought when it was cheap but even so, that's a heck of a price increase over such a short amount of time.

Gabriel S.
May 20, 2006
EVERY MORNING I WAKE UP AND OPEN PALM SLAM TURDS INTO MY MOUTH


BIG HEADLINE posted:

If you go by these new details on the 300-series boards, not a whole lot different than the 200-series: http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/in...t-ethernet.html

Native USB 3.1 Gen 2 and built-in Gigabit ethernet and wireless.

Guaranteed to retain the LGA 1151 socket, though.

I wonder if having an additional 2 cores for a total of 6 will make any real world difference with modern gaming?

I'm guess probably not

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Tab8715 posted:

I wonder if having an additional 2 cores for a total of 6 will make any real world difference with modern gaming?

I'm guess probably not

Not if all you're doing it gaming, no. But it can help if you're doing something else at the same time--like streaming.

craig588
Nov 19, 2005

by Nyc_Tattoo


I haven't seen a benefit in games specifically with a 6 core Haswell, but being able to run Handbrake with no hit to games is great coming from a 4 core Sandybridge where even lighter stuff would stutter and pause for seconds at a time as threads fought for CPU time.

It's a bit of the scary phrase of future proofing too. Consoles are 8 core x86 machines, eventually some of that effort in developing for them will translate into more cores being beneficial in games...right? RIGHT? Well not yet, but that's the dream at least.

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001
$10


Fun Shoe

It's interesting, the consoles have 8 cores, but even the new scorpio in the xbox is otherwise anemic in the horsepower department in terms of single threaded performance. 2.3ghz not jaguar , not ryzen isn't impressive. (Though it is running GDDR5 RAM)
On the other hand the graphics are what, ten times more powerful?

I guess what I really want to know is when I can get graphics memory for my pc's processor.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985




It'll be more interesting i think when consoles stop using anaemic jaguar cores.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

Nobody Cares




Jago posted:

It's interesting, the consoles have 8 cores, but even the new scorpio in the xbox is otherwise anemic in the horsepower department in terms of single threaded performance. 2.3ghz not jaguar , not ryzen isn't impressive. (Though it is running GDDR5 RAM)
On the other hand the graphics are what, ten times more powerful?

I guess what I really want to know is when I can get graphics memory for my pc's processor.

HBM is likely to be gddr, right?

BurritoJustice
Oct 9, 2012



Jago posted:

It's interesting, the consoles have 8 cores, but even the new scorpio in the xbox is otherwise anemic in the horsepower department in terms of single threaded performance. 2.3ghz not jaguar , not ryzen isn't impressive. (Though it is running GDDR5 RAM)
On the other hand the graphics are what, ten times more powerful?

I guess what I really want to know is when I can get graphics memory for my pc's processor.

Consoles having lots of hot garbage cores means that even more effort will have to be put into multithreaded optimisation. If they were eight even average cores they could just coast on using the first four mostly, but they are working with what are basically ULV laptop chips so they really need to squeeze everything they can.

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Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002


At least they're a good nesting box for roaches?

https://twitter.com/mattdpearce/sta...121693974941697

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