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Badmana
Jul 27, 2004
WARNING: FROM SCARBOROUGH.

DO NOT TOUCH.


Ika posted:

Some stores here are listing them as in stock as of noon today, I don't know whether they just wanna scalp preorders or are really shipping .


Which stores? Local ones only?

I'm jumping ship from AMD to Intel and have got everything but the mainboard and cpu in hand. I'll probably get the P8Z77 deluxe with the 3770k. I really want to unleash my SANDISK Extreme SSD which is stuck in SATA 2 speeds until I upgrade.

I really want to try out quicksync. I convert several movies/tv shows a week to watch on my 5" streak and my AMD 940 just isn't that fast. I've heard my GTX 580 can convert video pretty quickly but with lower quality than quicksync.

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HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


Badmana posted:

I convert several movies/tv shows a week to watch on my 5" streak

Have you tried MX Video Player? I haven't got a Streak, but give it a go.

Transcoding seems like such awful nonsense, and I hate that devices don't ship with more codecs with hardware acceleration. I have a piece of crap Android tablet that cost me next to nothing, yet it decodes and plays even 1080p MKV just fine (although scaled down to 800x480). All thanks to a little smart software engineering, something the big names don't seem to get.

HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Apr 25, 2012

japtor
Oct 28, 2005
WELL ARNT I JUST MR. LA DE FUCKEN DA. oh yea and i suck cocks too


I'd like it for TV recordings on my HTPC, that stuff is mostly 10-15Mbit MPEG2 so encoding them down would give a huge chunk of space back. That and for when ripping BDs, it's easy enough to play them but I'd rather not use 20+GB/movie when that copy would be pretty much for convenience.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

Anandtech posted a pretty cool video talking about their new Ivy Bridge motherboard lineup and other product stacks:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOrUyVbNDO4

7-series motherboard feature highlights (most apply to Standard and above boards):
  • WiFi on most boards, with WiDi (Wireless Display) on ROG boards
  • A header with an included adapter that provides both mSATA and MiniPCIe slots (for SSDs/wireless adapters)
  • Asus is standardized on Intel Ethernet adapters with bundled QoS software
  • Improved fan control automatically determines the minimum speed fans will run at, and sets that as the Silent mode. All fan ports have PWM controllers with manual and automatic fan control.
  • USB BIOS Flashback allows you to flash the BIOS from a USB drive without turning on the system. You don't even need a CPU or memory connected! Just hook up the power supply so the +5VSB rail is energized, hook your flash drive up to the specially colored port, and press the button. This lets you recover from even a completely corrupted BIOS flash or if you buy a CPU that isn't supported by your board without an update.
  • Thunderbolt ports will be included on all boards, though only higher-end models will have the controller. On other boards, you buy a $40 Thunderbolt card that has a cable to connect to the Thunderbolt header on the board to make the ports live.

Also, TechReport has an article regarding high Ivy Bridge temperatures. In addition to the smaller die size and thus higher thermal density, Ivy Bridge connect the CPU core to the heat spreader with thermal paste rather than solder as in previous products, which leads to higher thermal resistance.

Alereon fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Apr 27, 2012

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


"Ivy Bridge's improved IPC is almost entirely mitigated by its reduced overclocking headroom."

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5787/...tx-680-in-sli/2

Also, I'm pleased by the 990x's showing. I maintained a long time ago that although the 980x was a ridiculously expensive CPU, it's surprisingly held its own. That is still true. It doesn't look like bad value now compared to buying Nehalem + Sandy Bridge + Ivy Bridge.

vv Oh, I agree that it's still a ridiculous cost, I don't have one. But compared to some of the retarded "extreme" things we've seen in the past, it's not that bad. Compare it to, say, Pentium 4 Extreme, Pentium Extreme Edition, or really most SLI setups, especially back in the day, I knew I had a guy who had 7800GTX SLI (256MB cards) and, well, he always had overheating issues, it never performed that well, and it cost a crazy amount and was extremely soon eclipsed. Then again, come to think of it, he also had VapoChill, and removing his CPU caused the brittle pins to shatter.

HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Apr 27, 2012

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


That generally holds true for ultra-high-end CPUs. A Core 2 Extreme quad-core at 3.2 GHz generally keeps up with an i5-2400, except where Nehalem or Sandy Bridge introduced new instructions like AES-NI. It's impressive considering the rate of improvement of hardware in general, but it's also a hell of an up-front cost. Buying a $1000 chip every four years vs. ~$450 of chip, motherboard and RAM twice in the same time period frontloads your performance but still costs a good bit more over time. And that's not even counting the motherboard and RAM for that $1000 chip.

Badmana
Jul 27, 2004
WARNING: FROM SCARBOROUGH.

DO NOT TOUCH.


HalloKitty posted:

Have you tried MX Video Player? I haven't got a Streak, but give it a go.

Transcoding seems like such awful nonsense, and I hate that devices don't ship with more codecs with hardware acceleration. I have a piece of crap Android tablet that cost me next to nothing, yet it decodes and plays even 1080p MKV just fine (although scaled down to 800x480). All thanks to a little smart software engineering, something the big names don't seem to get.


I just downloaded it. Nice piece of software (I like the ease of forwarding and reversing) but my Streak only has a 800 x 480 screen. I've always thought I should down scale a movie to 800 x 480 to both save space (sd card only supports FAT32, no +4 gig files) and to reduce stutter. Does MX player scale down without trouble?



Still eagerly waiting for the 3770k to come out. I just hope my local stores carry it on Monday. Ordering it from across the country and waiting a few extra days would suck. Just not looking forward to rebuilding Windows 7.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


Badmana posted:

I just downloaded it. Nice piece of software (I like the ease of forwarding and reversing) but my Streak only has a 800 x 480 screen. I've always thought I should down scale a movie to 800 x 480 to both save space (sd card only supports FAT32, no +4 gig files) and to reduce stutter. Does MX player scale down without trouble?

It should scale down just fine, but whether it runs smoothly, you'll just have to copy a file to it and see what happens.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams


How long does it typically take for this cutting edge stuff to end up in business desktops (Optiplex and the like)?

We can get i5-2500 towers for about $650, and we're probably going to do some hardware refreshes in the next few months, and I'm wondering 1) how long before Dell comes out with Ivy bridge desktops and 2) If it's even worth it to bother upgrading, or just keep using the i5-2500. Since Ivy Bridge is going to be more expensive than Sandy Bridge, it's probably not worth the extra cost for normal business use cases.

future ghost
Dec 5, 2005

det er noget at leve for

Gun Saliva

Alereon posted:

Also, TechReport has an article regarding high Ivy Bridge temperatures. In addition to the smaller die size and thus higher thermal density, Ivy Bridge connect the CPU core to the heat spreader with thermal paste rather than solder as in previous products, which leads to higher thermal resistance.
I was reading on overclockers that they had planned to de-lid a few IB chips when they had a chance, however I hadn't realized that someone at pt1t.eu actually did it.



It's really odd that Intel would go back to using TIM under the IHS' instead of soldering the die like they have been doing for years. Only certain recent Intel-made low-end chips (IE the allendale C2D's) have used TIM instead of solder, and they ran warmer with overclocking than the conroe chips as a result. Theoretically, something about the new transistor tech in Ivy Bridge could make soldering the chips impossible, so they went with TIM instead, or that TIM is only being used for engineering samples. That doesn't explain why you'd send out review samples with known thermal deficiencies if you were planning to switch to solder later though.


This is just a really weird throwback to the socket-939 Opteron era, but it certainly explains the higher IB temperatures.

future ghost fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Apr 27, 2012

kapinga
Oct 12, 2005

I am not a number

FISHMANPET posted:

How long does it typically take for this cutting edge stuff to end up in business desktops (Optiplex and the like)?

We can get i5-2500 towers for about $650, and we're probably going to do some hardware refreshes in the next few months, and I'm wondering 1) how long before Dell comes out with Ivy bridge desktops and 2) If it's even worth it to bother upgrading, or just keep using the i5-2500. Since Ivy Bridge is going to be more expensive than Sandy Bridge, it's probably not worth the extra cost for normal business use cases.

It's pretty much not worth waiting/upgrading unless you are relying on an increase in the integrated graphics performance or really, really want to get a little power savings.

Without the GPU upgrades, IB is just a 'tick' and gets some small improvements, but nothing worth holding out for in most cases.

Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down



grumperfish posted:

I was reading on overclockers that they had planned to de-lid a few IB chips when they had a chance, however I hadn't realized that someone at pt1t.eu actually did it.



It's really odd that Intel would go back to using TIM under the IHS' instead of soldering the die like they have been doing for years. Only certain recent Intel-made low-end chips (IE the allendale C2D's) have used TIM instead of solder, and they ran warmer with overclocking than the conroe chips as a result. Theoretically, something about the new transistor tech in Ivy Bridge could make soldering the chips impossible, so they went with TIM instead, or that TIM is only being used for engineering samples. That doesn't explain why you'd send out review samples with known thermal deficiencies if you were planning to switch to solder later though.


This is just a really weird throwback to the socket-939 Opteron era, but it certainly explains the higher IB temperatures.

Well that's loving dumb. And goes pretty far to explain the surprisingly poor thermal performance of the higher end chips.

DuckConference
May 27, 2004



grumperfish posted:





I don't see how the transistor technology would prevent them from using solder, wouldn't the top of the chip still just be a thick layer of silicon nitride?

Allstone
Apr 14, 2012


Has someone just messed up really badly for the first batch or something?

future ghost
Dec 5, 2005

det er noget at leve for

Gun Saliva

DuckConference posted:

I don't see how the transistor technology would prevent them from using solder, wouldn't the top of the chip still just be a thick layer of silicon nitride?
The only thing I could figure would be that the 22nm transistors or the new gates wouldn't tolerate the soldering process, but I don't understand it well enough to know whether that's a dumb theory (probably).

Basically I was just guessing at anything that would explain why they went back to TIM for these chips.

Ika
Dec 30, 2004
Pure insanity



Maybe its cheaper and the chips run cool enough without soldering for everything besides hardcore overclocking with their cheap heatsink so that they decide to save the money?

Still is strange that they would switch how the production line works, assuming they are using same line as for sandy bridge.

Fruit Smoothies
Mar 28, 2004

The bat with a ZING

Is it likely that Intel would change away from TIM in future batches? Or is that never going to happen?

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


Ugh, watch it not switch to soldering until IVB-E.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007






Ika posted:

Maybe its cheaper and the chips run cool enough without soldering for everything besides hardcore overclocking with their cheap heatsink so that they decide to save the money?

Still is strange that they would switch how the production line works, assuming they are using same line as for sandy bridge.

There's no way they use the same line as sandy bridge. It's a completely different process, not to mention they aren't even using the same transistor design.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


Factory Factory posted:

Ugh, watch it not switch to soldering until IVB-E.

Probably. What the hell is Intel playing at? If all Ivy Bridge chips really are covered with TIM then a heatspreader, they're blue-balling the poo poo out of everyone in an extremely cynical move.
I don't see how it could do anything other than severely impact cooling performance.
Whether removing it really translates into better overclocking.. well.. I'm hoping we see a deluge of de-lidded Ivy Bridge overclocking articles soon.

Gwaihir
Dec 8, 2009



Hair Elf

No heatspreader bare-core chips, cores crunched by heatsinks, it's like we're back in the good old Athlon-XP days!

Wedesdo
Jun 15, 2001
I FUCKING WASTED 10 HOURS AND $40 TODAY. FUCK YOU FATE AND/OR FORTUNE AND/OR PROBABILITY AND/OR HEISENBURG UNCERTAINTY PRINCIPLE.



Gwaihir posted:

No heatspreader bare-core chips, cores crunched by heatsinks, it's like we're back in the good old Athlon-XP days!

Nah, it's LGA, so the motherboard is going to get damaged too.

vx15i
Feb 9, 2003


KillHour posted:

There's no way they use the same line as sandy bridge. It's a completely different process, not to mention they aren't even using the same transistor design.

Intel fabs the wafer at one site then packages them at another, which is why Costa Rica or Malay is printed on the chip. Sandy and Ivy have the same packaging, other than the change from solder to grease.

The change is probably to save money.

incoherent
Apr 24, 2004

01010100011010000111001
00110100101101100011011
000110010101110010


HalloKitty posted:

Probably. What the hell is Intel playing at?

Kneecapping IVB so there is a big difference between IVB and IVB-E.

craig588
Nov 19, 2005

by Nyc_Tattoo


Removing an IHS is trivial and free so anyone who cares about overclocking can do it. They're just cutting costs by making assembly simpler.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

craig588 posted:

Removing an IHS is trivial and free so anyone who cares about overclocking can do it. They're just cutting costs by making assembly simpler.
I would hardly call this trivial, and this is on a CPU that's already dead so the guy didn't need to worry about damaging it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMzzUuvKWPM

Wedesdo
Jun 15, 2001
I FUCKING WASTED 10 HOURS AND $40 TODAY. FUCK YOU FATE AND/OR FORTUNE AND/OR PROBABILITY AND/OR HEISENBURG UNCERTAINTY PRINCIPLE.



I may need a second computer soon. Should I stock up and grab a 2700K, or get a Piledriver for cheap and use it until Haswell?

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


The absolute, one and only course of action is to explain more about what you will be doing with the computer and what you expect from it so that we can give meaningful advice.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

Wedesdo posted:

I may need a second computer soon. Should I stock up and grab a 2700K, or get a Piledriver for cheap and use it until Haswell?
Just buy an Ivy Bridge Core i5 3570K or something on Sunday.

craig588
Nov 19, 2005

by Nyc_Tattoo


Alereon posted:

I would hardly call this trivial, and this is on a CPU that's already dead so the guy didn't need to worry about damaging it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMzzUuvKWPM

That's going way overkill, you don't need to cut the epoxy all around the edges. Just to make sure I wasn't misremembering it I just went out and popped off an IHS from a P4. I tried to record a video showing how easy it was, but it looked like garbage because I needed 2 hands to stabilize the CPU. The entire effort was under 45 seconds though. All you need to do is push the IHS a little bit to the side so it breaks the bond and then it falls right off. The hardest part is figuring out how to clamp it so you can exert pressure evenly on the side of the PCB, but just on a corner of the IHS.

Edit: I watched it and it's actually not as incomprehensible as I imagined. I cheated by putting the CPU in a loose socket I had so I wouldn't need to cushion the back edge with a piece of cloth, but that's just so it's easy to see.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfEDateV6ik

craig588 fucked around with this message at 08:41 on Apr 28, 2012

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Factory Factory posted:

Ugh, watch it not switch to soldering until IVB-E.
By the time the IVB-E is out, Haswell would be ready for manufacturing.

Kane
Aug 20, 2000

Do you see the problem?

Conscious of pain, you're distracted by pain.
You're fixated on it. Obsessed by one threat, you miss the other.

So much more aware, so much less perceptive. An automaton could do better.

Are you in there?

Are you listening? Can you see?


Alereon posted:

Just buy an Ivy Bridge Core i5 3570K or something on Sunday.

With standard air-cooling, will this perform better than the equivalent SB sweet spot CPU+mobo price/performance wise?

spasticColon
Sep 22, 2004

In loving memory of Donald Pleasance

Will there be any good deals on 2500K chips online after Ivy Bridge drops? If I could get one and a decent motherboard for $300 or less then I'd be tempted to upgrade my older rig that currently has an E8400 in it.

Steakandchips
Apr 30, 2009



Individual retailers may drop prices slightly, to clear stock, but no, not really. Intel doesn't lower last gen chip prices.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

HalloKitty posted:

Transcoding seems like such awful nonsense, and I hate that devices don't ship with more codecs with hardware acceleration.
I think people wouldn't mind transcoding as much if it was done on-the-fly when syncing media. If someone could write a plugin for iTunes that will intercept files added, recognize they can be converted, and trick iTunes into reading different headers, it could be possible for syncing to a device to trigger an on-demand transcode of the media files.

Ika
Dec 30, 2004
Pure insanity



E: nm, should read all new replys before posting.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

Kane posted:

With standard air-cooling, will this perform better than the equivalent SB sweet spot CPU+mobo price/performance wise?
Yes, remember that Ivy Bridge is a price cut from Sandy Bridge (though that's absorbed by the inventory-clearing sales), is more power-efficient, faster clock-for-clock, and has much better graphics performance. The only downside is the higher temperatures at high power levels due to using the TIM instead of solder, and that really only comes into play when you start pushing the voltage to pull the last few mhz out of the core you can.

Fruit Smoothies
Mar 28, 2004

The bat with a ZING

I think I've decided on Ivy, and I'm going to try and get one as soon as they're out tomorrow. I just don't know now whether to purchase water cooling too? I think I'd be happy with a 4.5/4.6GHz overclock.

Lars Krimi
Jul 1, 2003


Have I understood correctly that the higher you intend to overclock, the less of an improvement Ivy Bridge will be? If I would have intended to get a decent air cooler and overclock the i5 2500K to perhaps 4.7GHz, would I be better or worse off with the Ivy Bridge equivalent overclocked to a lower frequency?

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Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

Fruit Smoothies posted:

I think I've decided on Ivy, and I'm going to try and get one as soon as they're out tomorrow. I just don't know now whether to purchase water cooling too? I think I'd be happy with a 4.5/4.6GHz overclock.
Go with a good air cooler, only the crazy massive three-fan watercooling setups actually perform any better, the rest are just more expensive and noisier for worse cooling.

Lars Krimi posted:

Have I understood correctly that the higher you intend to overclock, the less of an improvement Ivy Bridge will be? If I would have intended to get a decent air cooler and overclock the i5 2500K to perhaps 4.7GHz, would I be better or worse off with the Ivy Bridge equivalent overclocked to a lower frequency?
You'd be better off with Ivy Bridge.

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