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Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


Zhentar posted:

That sounds exactly like an enterprise feature to me. Consumer applications are extremely slow to uptake new processor features, because it generally isn't easy to support the new feature without breaking compatibility with old processor revisions.

That's the thing, though, only libraries need to be updated, and those libraries will have automatic backwards compatibility. GCC 4.8, the latest Visual Studio 2012 update, and Intel's own compiler all have that TSX support and development done. The only thing an app developer needs to do is link to a sufficiently new version of the library.

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Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

Zhentar posted:

This cuts both ways, though - Ivy Bridge benefits in yields (and thus headroom) from the lessons learned from Sandy Bridge, while the new architecture has new critical paths that aren't yet optimized (this is the beauty of the Tick/Tock cadence).
If Ivy Bridge was a Tick+, then Haswell is a Tock-. While Haswell is a new microarchitecture compared to Sandy Bridge, many of those changes were actually implemented in the Tick+ that was Ivy Bridge. For desktop users and overclockers, Haswell represents more a process-optimized Ivy Bridge than a new architecture. On the other hand, Haswell-based SoCs will be a much more radical shift in capabilities and performance than we've previously seen in the low-power space, so that will be exciting to see.

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 9, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.


Ughh, I don't want to wait for Broadwell to build a new PC so I'll probably just pick up a Haswell later this year. Broadwell will use the same socket as Haswell right?

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

Those virtualization improvements are giving me a nerd boner. Next thing they'll add is GPU virtualization extensions with Broadwell beating nVidia to the punch and I'd have a small nerdgasm.

Crosby B. Alfred
May 20, 2006


necrobobsledder posted:

Those virtualization improvements are giving me a nerd boner. Next thing they'll add is GPU virtualization extensions with Broadwell beating nVidia to the punch and I'd have a small nerdgasm.

I just want this so I could run OS X in a VM

In other news, I just want to see the mobile performance of Haswell. I'm due for a new laptop this year and my C2D is simply too old

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!



Endymion FRS MK1 posted:

New benchmarks of Haswell from Tom's Hardware

Performance seems like 10%-ish above Ivy, desktop GPU performance is still below Trinity. Wonder how the more powerful mobile Haswell GPU will fare.



Nice! Now to build my imaginary compile-farm.

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you


Shimrra Jamaane posted:

Broadwell will use the same socket as Haswell right?

I wouldn't count on it.

Shanakin
Mar 26, 2010

The whole point of stats are lost if you keep it a secret. Why Didn't you tell the world eh?


canyoneer posted:

I wouldn't count on it.

Isn't Broadwell meant to be moving exlusively to BGA... ie no more sockets, soldered straight onto motherboards? Or was that Skylarke or whatever its called?

Fatal
Jul 29, 2004

I'm gunna kill you BITCH!!!


Shanakin posted:

Isn't Broadwell meant to be moving exlusively to BGA... ie no more sockets, soldered straight onto motherboards? Or was that Skylarke or whatever its called?

That was a bunch of bullshit

canyoneer posted:

I wouldn't count on it.

It's supposed to be

Fatal fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Mar 20, 2013

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

While there will be limited numbers of enthusiast Broadwell CPUs available in LGA, most models (including desktop models) will be BGA-only.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

Tab8715 posted:

I just want this so I could run OS X in a VM
Works for me under VMware Fusion

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.



Sounds more to me like they want to move into the space the amd Hudson stuff is occupying but keep their existing setup for system builders.

ijyt
Apr 10, 2012




The source you posted claims the opposite of what you've said. "Low-end" CPUs != most models.

Tech Report posted:

...select Broadwell chips will indeed come soldered onto desktop motherboards. Lower-end models might not be available in socketed configurations at all, it seems. Our source did, however, reaffirm Intel's position that socketed CPUs aren't being dropped completely.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

ijyt posted:

The source you posted claims the opposite of what you've said. "Low-end" CPUs != most models.
You've got the enthusiast LGA-2011 and successor platform that remains exclusively socketed, high-end desktop models like the K-series and probably the i5/i7 5000-series will be available socketed, and it looks like everything else remains exclusively BGA.

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 9, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.


Alereon posted:

You've got the enthusiast LGA-2011 and successor platform that remains exclusively socketed, high-end desktop models like the K-series and probably the i5/i7 5000-series will be available socketed, and it looks like everything else remains exclusively BGA.

So anyone who desires to build/upgrade a gaming PC is all set.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



Shimrra Jamaane posted:

So anyone who desires to build/upgrade a gaming PC is all set.

I don't think that many gamer machines are Sandy Bridge E.

beejay
Apr 7, 2002



hobbesmaster posted:

I don't think that many gamer machines are Sandy Bridge E.

What? The article implies that "low end" chips will be soldered. Gaming PCs are generally not low end chips. Either way, there is no solid information out there and Intel went out of their way to quash the BGA thing once already. So I'd think we should probably wait and see.

spasticColon
Sep 22, 2004

In loving memory of Donald Pleasance

Will it be worth upgrading to Haswell from a i5-2500K chip for gaming? I would only have to upgrade the CPU and motherboard and keep everything else right?

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

I doubt it. Depends on the game, I figure, whether the game is CPU heavy or not. I'm personally only upgrading from my i7-2600 due to the virtualization stuff. I'd figure the ~15% plus in IPC, improved hyperthreading and faster VM stuff will be noticeable in my scenario.

Endymion FRS MK1
Oct 28, 2011



spasticColon posted:

Will it be worth upgrading to Haswell from a i5-2500K chip for gaming? I would only have to upgrade the CPU and motherboard and keep everything else right?

I wouldn't. I'm on a 3570K and I don't plan to upgrade until Skylake/Skymont at the earliest.

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002



spasticColon posted:

Will it be worth upgrading to Haswell from a i5-2500K chip for gaming? I would only have to upgrade the CPU and motherboard and keep everything else right?

I was under the impression you could count the cpu-bound games on a i5-2500k chip on one hand.

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


- Dwarf Fortress
- Late-game Civ 5
- ???

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003




Young Orc

Planetside 2 maybe.

movax
Aug 30, 2008



I think for most games, even a Nehalem quad will be more than enough, especially if overclocked. And for general purpose work/Internet machines, that + 8GB of RAM is plenty.

Really the big improvements as we all know will be mobile; CPU performance boost with an iGPU that may preclude the need for a discrete chip And improved battery life? Yes please.

e: One big thing I forgot though, is the upcoming HEVC (successor to H.264 / AVC). That coupled with 4K resolutions could be rough for older hardware that either don't have GPUs/similar hardware to decode assist, or can't be upgraded to have it (i.e. older laptops). Current-gen tablets / portables are of course completely hosed unless their ASICs secretly have the flexibility or IP to handle it.

movax fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Mar 23, 2013

AllanGordon
Jan 26, 2010

by Shine


Has there been any more news about the integrated wifi chip on the cpu? I'm guessing from the lack of info it won't be coming out this year. Seems it'd be a major boost to mobile battery life.

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.


movax posted:

I think for most games, even a Nehalem quad will be more than enough, especially if overclocked. And for general purpose work/Internet machines, that + 8GB of RAM is plenty.

Really the big improvements as we all know will be mobile; CPU performance boost with an iGPU that may preclude the need for a discrete chip And improved battery life? Yes please.

e: One big thing I forgot though, is the upcoming HEVC (successor to H.264 / AVC). That coupled with 4K resolutions could be rough for older hardware that either don't have GPUs/similar hardware to decode assist, or can't be upgraded to have it (i.e. older laptops). Current-gen tablets / portables are of course completely hosed unless their ASICs secretly have the flexibility or IP to handle it.

Hevc content basically doesn't exist so it'll be a few years before we see it being used even internally. Avc took a while to take off after it was ratified so by the time it becomes relevant people will have the hardware

Fruit Smoothies
Mar 28, 2004

The bat with a ZING

AllanGordon posted:

Has there been any more news about the integrated wifi chip on the cpu? I'm guessing from the lack of info it won't be coming out this year. Seems it'd be a major boost to mobile battery life.

I thought intel were just being ultra-picky about which parts they make OEM use to get their "certification" rather than making it more SOC like. Certainly on the haswell front. Could be wrong, though

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

Fruit Smoothies posted:

I thought intel were just being ultra-picky about which parts they make OEM use to get their "certification" rather than making it more SOC like. Certainly on the haswell front. Could be wrong, though

He's talking about Rosepoint.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


spasticColon posted:

Will it be worth upgrading to Haswell from a i5-2500K chip for gaming? I would only have to upgrade the CPU and motherboard and keep everything else right?

I'm pretty certain a 2500k with a healthy overclock is not going to be out of date any time soon. However, once the new consoles arrive, we can expect things to move in terms of requirements as a knock on effect.

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004



Grimey Drawer

movax posted:

e: One big thing I forgot though, is the upcoming HEVC (successor to H.264 / AVC). That coupled with 4K resolutions could be rough for older hardware that either don't have GPUs/similar hardware to decode assist, or can't be upgraded to have it (i.e. older laptops). Current-gen tablets / portables are of course completely hosed unless their ASICs secretly have the flexibility or IP to handle it.

Just want to add, I don't really care about 4K resolution until I can buy a 4K monitor for my workstation. The way next gen consoles are speced, we're probably not going to be gaming at 4K until the next-next generation, i.e. whatever is after the PS4/XBox 720. Considering Sony & Microsoft are trying to get 10 years out of the console, that is not going to be anytime soon (albeit I would not put money on the PS4/720 actually hitting the 10 year mark).

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

4K on consoles would either be interpolated, like 1080p on current ones, or they'll be trading polygons for resolution. At 4K resolution, games can however drop all antialiasing, making up a little performance there.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

Combat Pretzel posted:

4K on consoles would either be interpolated, like 1080p on current ones, or they'll be trading polygons for resolution. At 4K resolution, games can however drop all antialiasing, making up a little performance there.
Even though each individual pixel is less visible, the aliasing artifacts like Moire distortion will still be quite obvious. The big advantage of higher-dpi displays to me is that you can use an antialiasing method that blurs the image will still producing a detailed image. For example, nVidia's TXAA produces a very film-like image, where no temporal aliasing is visible at all, with the cost that the image is somewhat blurry. At 1080p on a desktop monitor that might be a dealbreaker because it's hard to tell what's going on, but at higher density there's enough detail in a given unit of area to get a sharp-looking image without aliasing.

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


Rumors abound on the GPU configurations for mobile Haswell.

As review:
  • GT2 - Tweaked equivalent of HD 4000
  • GT3 - GT2 with double the rendering/compute hardware
  • GT3e - GT3 with an embedded DRAM cache, ca. GeForce 650M performance
Here's what we're looking at, if the leaks are true:

GT3e will be HD 5200, and will be implemented in high-performance, high-TDP quad-core chips with the suffix -HQ. So far, two such SKUs are revealed, the i7-4850HQ (2.3-3.5 GHz, 3.3 GHz max 4C turbo) and the i7-4950HQ (2.4-3.6 GHz, 3.4 GHz max 4C turbo), both 47W TDP parts. The max IGP clock will be 1300 MHz on both parts.

The other SKUs will apparently be binned based on clocks. GT3 will be HD 5000 and HD 5100 in Ultrabook SKUs only. GT2 will be HD 4200 and HD 4400 in Ultrabook SKUs and HD 4600 in higher-TDP, higher-clock SKUs.



Different names based on clocks/TDP isn't a terrible thing. Though HD 4000 is hardware-identical on ULV i7s and high-TDP performance quad-core i7s, the real-world performance is very different due to TDP limits and clock throttling. The new names will be a bit clearer to consumers who aren't turbogeeks.

incoherent
Apr 24, 2004

01010100011010000111001
00110100101101100011011
000110010101110010


I really, really want that 5200 in a macbook air.

Crosby B. Alfred
May 20, 2006


That's not bad at all, but I wonder what ATI or nVidia will bring to the table...

balakadaka
Jun 30, 2005

robot terrorists WILL kill you

Tab8715 posted:

That's not bad at all, but I wonder what ATI or nVidia will bring to the table...

Not that it should be taken with any credulity, but didn't that Tom's Hardware "preview" kinda show the GT2 as pretty well below Richland? I'm wondering what Kaveri brings to the table, at least just in terms of graphics

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

incoherent posted:

I really, really want that 5200 in a macbook air.
I really want it in a low-end but competent Windows Ultrabook that I could actually afford/justify.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




The first OEM that puts the HD 5200 in a 13" ultrabook with a 2560x1600 screen will have my money faster than I've ever spent it on anything ever.

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


They'll also probably win a Nobel prize for physics, what with figuring out room-temperature superconductors to cool a 47W chip in a form factor that normally struggles with a third of that.

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bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




Pffft, as if I came here for mundane things like "facts."

I will continue to dream of an ultraportable gaming notebook with good battery life.

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