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hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



Factory Factory posted:

They'll also probably win a Nobel prize for physics, what with figuring out room-temperature superconductors to cool a 47W chip in a form factor that normally struggles with a third of that.

13" rMBP can have a 35W tdp processor in it. Thats probably about as close as you'll get.

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incoherent
Apr 24, 2004

01010100011010000111001
00110100101101100011011
000110010101110010


Factory Factory posted:

They'll also probably win a Nobel prize for physics, what with figuring out room-temperature superconductors to cool a 47W chip in a form factor that normally struggles with a third of that.

I don't want the quad-core beast mode proc, a sensible i5 will do. Hell the current MBA is really slick and fast, i just want something for a light touch of gaming.

But...but MY MARKET SEGMENTATION

Crosby B. Alfred
May 20, 2006


Just think of what SkyLake will bring guys

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


There need to be more code-names that are puns, like AMD's Magny-Cours for its first 8- and 12-core server chips.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


hobbesmaster posted:

13" rMBP can have a 35W tdp processor in it. Thats probably about as close as you'll get.

I have a Sony Vaio Z12, 13.1" that has a 35w tdp cpu (i5-520m) AND a Geforce GT 330m in a similar size/weight, so it's possible to squeeze quite a bit in.

eames
May 9, 2009



incoherent posted:

I really, really want that 5200 in a macbook air.

So do I, but in reality Apple will probably drop the dGPU in the 15" rMBP because the HD5000 is now fast enough for smooth facebook scrolling.

Archer2338
Mar 15, 2008

'Tis a screwed up world

So regarding the HD5200 in laptops, what is the smallest size we can expect?
As those above pointed out, it probably won't go in ultrabooks... But say, if I sort of wanted possible gaming on the side, what would be the lightest weight I can expect? Am I going to need something as heavy as one of those Alienware gaming laptops to supply the CPU properly, or can it fit into something smaller?

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


That's about the right chip for something like a 15" Macbook Pro Retina (i.e. a thin-and-light 15"). Unless someone engineers a 13" gaming notebook around the HD 5200 chips specifically (which I wouldn't rule out, since 47W off one chip could probably be handled by a system that does a 17-35W CPU and 20-35W GPU), the smallest laptop you're likely to find it in is a 14" model.

fookolt
Mar 13, 2012

Where there is power
There is resistance


drat, so we're not likely going to see a quad-core Haswell chip in a 13" MacBook Pro Retina? I don't really care about dedicated GPU's because we'll hopefully have some decent ThunderBolt external GPU interfaces by the time they come out (and that's a far more relevant use case for me than having an internal dGPU with me at all times).

And someone mentioned Nehalem on the last page...Even though it's likely due to just how GPU-bound games have been, I'm pretty amazed just how well my i7 920 3.36GHz has done and is still doing. This has been the longest time I've gone without upgrading my CPU/motherboard (5 years in November).

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

It's been a bit of a long slog for external GPUs, but the biggest problem I've really hit with getting rid of PCs completely while still scratching a bit of a gaming itch has been that Macbook Pro Retina storage is so expensive and Bootcamp doesn't work off of external drives (for reasons beyond Apple's control it seems). Instead of paying $800+ extra for another few hundred GB AND a Thunderbolt dock or something AND a GTX 680+ GPU (Retina displays could use that power), I could have bought a fully loaded mini ITX box and a copy of Windows 7. Beyond that consideration, there's the fact that the Thunderbolt PCI-E bandwidth is limited to only 4 PCI-E 2.0 lanes at this point and seems locked to hardware, so it doesn't even matter if I had a nuclear fusion reactor backed GPU. Thunderbolt must drastically improve for the mobile high-end gaming (max details, native resolution - not possible really given the Retina resolution on a GT 650M) Macbook Pro concept to be viable.

On the other hand, I'm very interested in the Steam Box as a result but don't see myself having that much of a blast with the sort of GPUs that could work in that kind of chassis. Until things converge about right, I'll just play the few games I do run under OS X.

Yudo
May 15, 2003

I create


fookolt posted:

drat, so we're not likely going to see a quad-core Haswell chip in a 13" MacBook Pro Retina? I don't really care about dedicated GPU's because we'll hopefully have some decent ThunderBolt external GPU interfaces by the time they come out (and that's a far more relevant use case for me than having an internal dGPU with me at all times).

And someone mentioned Nehalem on the last page...Even though it's likely due to just how GPU-bound games have been, I'm pretty amazed just how well my i7 920 3.36GHz has done and is still doing. This has been the longest time I've gone without upgrading my CPU/motherboard (5 years in November).

I have an i5 760 that I feel compelled to upgrade but am not sure why. It's old?

I'm better off just getting a new video card. I do a lot of numerical analysis and it would inflate my ego to say that it is computationally so complex that I need an uber-machine, but frankly I solved some linear systems on my dual core atom. Most of the packages I use anyways are bloated shitware--solving a simple mixed model in SAS took 0.1 seconds of CPU time but 5 seconds to generate the report; another case it could not do ML estimation cause it ran out of RAM (which happens when have of your extentions are written in Java, of all things). An SSD and 4 more gigs of ram has solved that little problem.

Would a lower wattage CPU save me money on electricity? Someone give me an excuse to build a new machine, please.

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001
$10


Fun Shoe

It would not save you money to buy a new processor.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

This isn't 1997 where the processor next year would actually get you 20%+ more performance out of your applications. I'll be sticking with my MBPr and the Xeon E3-1230 in my server for a good long while unless I start needing lots and lots of hardware.

cancelope
Sep 22, 2010

The cops want to search the train

Yudo posted:

I have an i5 760 that I feel compelled to upgrade but am not sure why. It's old?

I'm better off just getting a new video card. I do a lot of numerical analysis and it would inflate my ego to say that it is computationally so complex that I need an uber-machine, but frankly I solved some linear systems on my dual core atom. Most of the packages I use anyways are bloated shitware--solving a simple mixed model in SAS took 0.1 seconds of CPU time but 5 seconds to generate the report; another case it could not do ML estimation cause it ran out of RAM (which happens when have of your extentions are written in Java, of all things). An SSD and 4 more gigs of ram has solved that little problem.

Would a lower wattage CPU save me money on electricity? Someone give me an excuse to build a new machine, please.


You're overclocking, right? I've got the same processor and it's trivially overclockable to at least 3.6 GHz. There are a few tasks that I wish it could do faster, but those might take up just ten extra minutes a week. I'm not upgrading my desktop to Haswell when it's available. To replace my Sandy Bridge Macbook Air, though, I could consider a Haswell MacBook Air/Pro when those are released, depending on performance and power usage improvements.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003


Hello darkness,
my old friend


asaf posted:

You're overclocking, right? I've got the same processor and it's trivially overclockable to at least 3.6 GHz. There are a few tasks that I wish it could do faster, but those might take up just ten extra minutes a week. I'm not upgrading my desktop to Haswell when it's available. To replace my Sandy Bridge Macbook Air, though, I could consider a Haswell MacBook Air/Pro when those are released, depending on performance and power usage improvements.

I am considering doing the same thing with my SNB MBA, mainly to keep a machine with AppleCare, and to get more than 4gb of ram, which is the ONLY thing I hate about this machine.

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


Some really neat stuff from the IDF keynote. TechReport's writeup. Mostly server-focused, especially with new concept physical architectures for servers based on silicon photonics interconnects, just about to be put into production by some partners.

Other neat highlights:
  • The Avoton 22nm Atom with the upgraded core will apparently not only be significantly beefier than current Saltwell-core Atoms, but it will allow four times the density in racks, too? Seems like, among other things, Ethernet will be integrated to the SoC. There will also be a version optimized for networking products.
  • The current Atoms are getting new SKUs optimized for NAS - 40 PCIe lanes and hardware RAID on an SoC. Atom S12x9 are the model numbers to look for.
  • New Xeons

First off, Haswell Xeon E3s will come out around the same time as consumer Haswell. TDPs as low as 13W. That's cool.

Next, Ivy Bridge E Xeon E5s in Q3. Up to 8 cores per CPU, dual socket, and support for 80 PCIe 3.0 lanes and 768 GB of RAM.

Biggest and baddest, the Xeon E7 family (currently Westmere-EX) is getting its groove on with Ivy Bridge-EX. Not sure when the release date is, but we're talking 10 cores per CPU, four+ sockets, 30MB of L3 cache, 144 PCIe 3.0 lanes, up to 130W TDP... and an eight socket system can address 12 TB of RAM. That's a lotta RAM.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

I've been hearing one way or the other about the simultaneous DDR3 / DDR4 support in Haswell not making it until a certain roll-out. Some said it'll be out with the E3s, some with the E5 series, and some say it'll be with the EX only. Anyone have a definitive answer on the timeline for DDR4 in Intel chips besides the Wikipedia page saying EX confirmation and the reports from last year on EP getting DDR4?

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


If Haswell works like Ivy Bridge and SNB before it, it's unlikely that we'll see DDR4 in the Xeon E3. With SNB and IVB, the E3 was the exact same silicon as the mainstream Core chips - mainly Sandy/Ivy Bridge-HE4 (quad core, 8 MB cache, 16 EU IGP).

It's not like single-socket, quad-core systems are the kinds of systems starved for huge amounts of fast RAM. That's usually reserved for the kind of really big virtualization outfits that use four+ sockets of 8 to 16 core CPUs.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

I think DDR4 gets introduced with Haswell-E, but I could be wrong.

McGlockenshire
Dec 16, 2005


Factory Factory posted:

The current Atoms are getting new SKUs optimized for NAS - 40 PCIe lanes and hardware RAID on an SoC. Atom S12x9 are the model numbers to look for.
Hardware RAID? Chances are that it'll just be an on-chip edition of Matrix/RST, which I personally don't have a problem with, but some people hate. That or it'll be that low-end RAID product licensed from LSI, like most of Intel's other RAID gear.

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


Oh, right, RST, yeah... From the description, it sounds like it at least offloads parity from the Atom cores.

--

Update on Haswell GT3e on the desktop: There will be SKUs that feature that IGP, the -R series chips (as in, pulling this out of my rear end, i7-4770R). But they won't be socketed parts; they'll be BGAs.

The BGA strategy is leaked, as well. Here's what it is: Tocks get socks.

As in, Haswell will have socketed chips. Broadwell will not. Skylake will have socketed chips. Skymont will not. Etc.

Link also has a picture of a delidded GT3e SoC part, with one multi-chip package with the CPU and eDRAM and one PCH package, so click through for that.

Seamonster
Apr 30, 2007

IMMER SIEGREICH


Any word on how much embedded DRAM (and clocks) for the appropriate parts?

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


1300 MHz, according to the rumors I posted last page, will be the max GT3e turbo on mobile parts. No hard-and-fast idea on the DRAM cache size, but people are tossing around 64 to 128 MB of God knows what speed.

Zhentar
Sep 28, 2003

Brilliant Master Genius


That's an awfully big die for 64MB of RAM on any modern process. I wouldn't be surprised if that's 256MB, even.

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


The two chips on the R-series LGA are not "CPU and eDRAM," they're "CPU-eDRAM MCP and PCH." They're SoCs.

Yudo
May 15, 2003

I create


asaf posted:

You're overclocking, right? I've got the same processor and it's trivially overclockable to at least 3.6 GHz. There are a few tasks that I wish it could do faster, but those might take up just ten extra minutes a week. I'm not upgrading my desktop to Haswell when it's available. To replace my Sandy Bridge Macbook Air, though, I could consider a Haswell MacBook Air/Pro when those are released, depending on performance and power usage improvements.

I have it clocked at ~3.4 GHz (with only a nudge in core voltage--I hope that is okay) and RAM at 1600. It will do 3.7 GHz easily but I'm not sure there is any gains that makes the extra heat worth it.

For example, my office workstation is the latest and greatest core i7. I would have never known had I not examined Window's "system properties": vs. my old i5 760, the new hotness feels positively sluggish in day to day stuff as my computer has an SSD and at work a HDD. For number crunching the i7 3770k or whatever is pretty nuts, but all the HDD access required to generate results causes it to take just as long as an OC'ed i5 760 with a modest SSD.

Also a bit odd is that while perusing video card reviews I found that my 6870 that I paid $200 for three years ago is basically on par with the just released 7790 that retails for $160. What the poo poo, AMD?

Zhentar
Sep 28, 2003

Brilliant Master Genius


Factory Factory posted:

The two chips on the R-series LGA are not "CPU and eDRAM," they're "CPU-eDRAM MCP and PCH." They're SoCs.

That is a picture of "CPU-eDRAM MCP and PCH", yes. You can see the PCH on one package on the left side, and on the right, you can see the CPU and eDRAM dies on the Multi Chip Package.

If you read the text of the Anandtech article, you'll notice it states exactly that. If you click through to their VR-Zone source, you'll notice they also posted a diagram matching the pictured package, with the larger die showing a quad core CPU with GPU, and the smaller die next to it labelled "L4".

John Lightning
Mar 10, 2012


AnandTech has an article up on Haswell overclocking: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6898/intel-details-haswell-overclocked-at-idf-beijing I have no idea what most of it is talking about but it sounds cool and I'm sure most of you will find it interesting.

eames
May 9, 2009



Factory Factory posted:

Link also has a picture of a delidded GT3e SoC part, with one multi-chip package with the CPU and eDRAM and one PCH package, so click through for that.

Interesting. I read that the integrated VRMs on Haswells are in a separate die on the chip, so I expected GT3e to have three dies.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


necrobobsledder posted:

This isn't 1997 where the processor next year would actually get you 20%+ more performance out of your applications. I'll be sticking with my MBPr and the Xeon E3-1230 in my server for a good long while unless I start needing lots and lots of hardware.

Pre 2000 era PCs were already slow for their time because most of them were installed with too little RAM to start with.

Butt Wizard
Nov 3, 2005

It was a pornography store. I was buying pornography.

Factory Factory posted:

There need to be more code-names that are puns, like AMD's Magny-Cours for its first 8- and 12-core server chips.

I think the pun is pretty unintentional, it's just a race track name.

Seamonster
Apr 30, 2007

IMMER SIEGREICH


Palladium posted:

Pre 2000 era PCs were already slow for their time because most of them were installed with too little RAM to start with.

Also (regardless of bandwidth) everything was single channel and integrated memory controllers were still a few years off.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


Palladium posted:

Pre 2000 era PCs were already slow for their time because most of them were installed with too little RAM to start with.

This was usually the biggest problem, even some way into the 2000's..

I remember XP desktops shipping with 128MiB RAM, then being loaded with an image covered in garbage such as corporate anti virus and so on.

Basically we had an era of machines that were expected to swap all day long to their slow rear end IDE drives, and nobody thought that was a problem (other than the users).

Eventually things picked up, and we had even the cheapest XP machines shipping with 512..

Then Vista hit, and the cheapest machines still shipped with 512, and it was 2001 all over again. Swap city!

chizad
Jul 9, 2001

'Cus we find ourselves in the same old mess
Singin' drunken lullabies

necrobobsledder posted:

This isn't 1997 where the processor next year would actually get you 20%+ more performance out of your applications. I'll be sticking with my MBPr and the Xeon E3-1230 in my server for a good long while unless I start needing lots and lots of hardware.

Hell, the P7350 in my Mac Mini and E8400 in my Windows PC (both with 8GB of RAM) are still plenty capable of handling most of the work I throw at them.

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004



Grimey Drawer

HalloKitty posted:

This was usually the biggest problem, even some way into the 2000's..

This still happens. Most default configurations of HP Z620 workstations, which start around $1,700, come with 4GB of memory. I've seen dual-processor Z620's configured like this, which means they ship 2x2x1GB DIMMs. What's even worse is that they had configurations of the Z600 that didn't pair DIMMs, i.e. you're essentially running your shiny new $expensive workstation in single channel mode.

I'd like to believe that this is because you'd be insane to pay HP's premium for memory so they ship as little as possible -- but knowing how they work this is definitely not the case.

Wistful of Dollars
Aug 25, 2009



John Lightning posted:

AnandTech has an article up on Haswell overclocking: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6898/intel-details-haswell-overclocked-at-idf-beijing I have no idea what most of it is talking about but it sounds cool and I'm sure most of you will find it interesting.

Ah, people in the comments mentioning the 300A. What a wonderful creature that was.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.


Miffler posted:

Ah, people in the comments mentioning the 300A. What a wonderful creature that was.
Unsurpassed until the mobile Barton 2500+

EconOutlines
Jul 3, 2004



Date just dropped. Either June 3rd or 4th according to Wolfram Alpha.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


Misogynist posted:

Unsurpassed until the mobile Barton 2500+

For a minute there I didn't know what you two were talking about until I realized I owned both of those. Man I'm old.

e: well I didn't own the 300A but I did own the P3-450 which I think counts

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aarstar
Mar 7, 2004


Miffler posted:

Ah, people in the comments mentioning the 300A. What a wonderful creature that was.

2 of those in an Abit BP6 was amazing.

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