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jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




So I just bought an Asus Zenbook Prime UX31A (i5/128gb SSD/4GB RAM) and I can still return it for 25 more days. I love everything about this computer and am wondering if I'll be able to get the same thing but with the Haswell poo poo inside of it?

I know there will be comparable Ultrabooks but I'm curious if I should just return this thing now and wait and see? I hear it's just better at everything: graphics, speed, battery life but I need it by August so I don't know if there will be an ultrabook for me at that point?

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cstine
Apr 15, 2004

What's in the box?!?

WHAT A GOOD DOG posted:

So I just bought an Asus Zenbook Prime UX31A (i5/128gb SSD/4GB RAM) and I can still return it for 25 more days. I love everything about this computer and am wondering if I'll be able to get the same thing but with the Haswell poo poo inside of it?

I know there will be comparable Ultrabooks but I'm curious if I should just return this thing now and wait and see? I hear it's just better at everything: graphics, speed, battery life but I need it by August so I don't know if there will be an ultrabook for me at that point?

You needed it and you're happy with it? Then use it and don't worry about a better thing that may or may not be coming up in a few months.

incoherent
Apr 24, 2004

01010100011010000111001
00110100101101100011011
000110010101110010


http://www.corsair.com/us/blog/hasw...power-supplies/

Corsair has released an official comparability list. Pretty much everything is comparable, or being tested.

Ham Sandwiches
Jul 7, 2000



cstine posted:

You needed it and you're happy with it? Then use it and don't worry about a better thing that may or may not be coming up in a few months.

I think his question was more around what's a realistic release date for mobile Haswells being available in laptops, and whether that will be before the August cutoff that he's looking for, rather than general feedback on his decision making process.

I'm curious about the same thing because I'm eyeing a new laptop but holding off for Haswells.

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



Speculation on FINANCIAL BLOGS!! is that you should get it soon
http://seekingalpha.com/article/143...ll?source=yahoo

quote:

Intel (INTC) is officially releasing its new Haswell CPU chips for PCs at Computex in Taiwan on June 4-8.
...
Something different is happening with Haswell. By the time of the product release, Haswell will have been shipping, presumably in high volume, to PC manufacturers for two months. The expectation is the Haswell-based personal computers will be available, off the shelf, on the date of release

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Is that "available on date of release" referring to laptops, desktops, or both?

cstine
Apr 15, 2004

What's in the box?!?

Cicero posted:

Is that "available on date of release" referring to laptops, desktops, or both?

It's all speculation until Intel and the OEMs announce anything - it's just some analyst spouting his opinion. Probably he's right, but there's nothing official until it's actually announced by involved parties.

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005


holy shit this os has cinepak?!?!?



Has there been any word on the chipset USB controller bug?

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

incoherent posted:

http://www.corsair.com/us/blog/hasw...power-supplies/

Corsair has released an official comparability list. Pretty much everything is comparable, or being tested.
Thinking of waiting on Haswell for my next PC. I read the article so I have a faint idea of why it is a thing to be worried about. Are any other noticeable PSU manufacturers doing any similar testing as well? I'm thinking of repurposing my PSU from my older PC (it has plenty of juice), not a corsair one though.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

Sober posted:

Thinking of waiting on Haswell for my next PC. I read the article so I have a faint idea of why it is a thing to be worried about. Are any other noticeable PSU manufacturers doing any similar testing as well? I'm thinking of repurposing my PSU from my older PC (it has plenty of juice), not a corsair one though.
What's the brand and model of your current power supply? All PSU manufacturers can be expected to test their current and probably recent models. However, if your PSU has more than one +12V rail or doesn't use DC-to-DC conversion for the +5V and +3.3V rails you probably wouldn't want to try using it.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Alereon posted:

What's the brand and model of your current power supply? All PSU manufacturers can be expected to test their current and probably recent models. However, if your PSU has more than one +12V rail or doesn't use DC-to-DC conversion for the +5V and +3.3V rails you probably wouldn't want to try using it.
XFX pro750W, I know it definitely has a single +12V rail though the latter I can't seem to find digging through whatever documentation that came with it.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed

College Slice

Sober posted:

XFX pro750W, I know it definitely has a single +12V rail though the latter I can't seem to find digging through whatever documentation that came with it.
Yes, that looks like a pretty reasonable model. It's a Seasonic-built power supply, does use DC-to-DC conversion for the +5V and +3.3V rails, has Active PFC, and has good efficiency.

sincx
Jul 13, 2012

furiously masturbating to anime titties

Given by the insane discounts on Ivy laptops recently, I think there's a good chance the analysts are right; Haswell machines should be available at launch.

Thoom
Jan 12, 2004

LUIGI SMASH!

Does that mean lower-end parts like i3s might be available off the bat, too?

Ryokurin
Jul 14, 2001

Wanna Die?

Quine Connoisseur posted:

Has there been any word on the chipset USB controller bug?

More than likely, the first batches will have the bug as a chipset, not processor revision is needed to fix. Since it's only affecting S3 sleep it's not a showstopper so it probably will be dealt with only if the end user complains.

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



Ryokurin posted:

More than likely, the first batches will have the bug as a chipset, not processor revision is needed to fix. Since it's only affecting S3 sleep it's not a showstopper so it probably will be dealt with only if the end user complains.

I believe one of the reports, that most people seemed to ignore, was that it effected only certain devices too

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



In "yeah Intel hosed up with mobile" news
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/intel...-114807177.html

quote:

When Apple was working on a prototype for the first iPhone, it approached Intel about making the processor for the device. But Intel passed on the opportunity because it didn't make sense financially, Otellini told Alexis Madrigal of The Atlantic in an interview published Thursday.
"At the end of the day, there was a chip that they were interested in that they wanted to pay a certain price for and not a nickel more and that price was below our forecasted cost. I couldn't see it," Otellini told Madrigal. "It wasn't one of these things you can make up on volume. And in hindsight, the forecasted cost was wrong and the volume was 100x what anyone thought."

I do love how the forecasted cost, the thing that drove the decision, was wrong.

quote:

Otellini told Madrigal his gut reaction was to pull the trigger on the Apple mobile deal. But he didn't, and so it's likely every time Otellini sees someone using an iPhone, he'll cringe a little bit inside.

I hope more than cringe

WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 13:55 on May 17, 2013

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

WhyteRyce posted:

I do love how the forecasted cost, the thing that drove the decision, was wrong.

It's not quite that simple. That's back in the time frame when Intel still had an in-house ARM team, and the bet was made on x86. And the "forecasted cost" being wrong wasn't simply a matter of the numbers being off. The entire model had to change and it wasn't clear how to do that, certainly not for a <5M part.

VulgarandStupid
Aug 5, 2003
I AM, AND ALWAYS WILL BE, UNFUCKABLE AND A TOTAL DISAPPOINTMENT TO EVERYONE. DAE WANNA CUM PLAY WITH ME!?


WhyteRyce posted:

In "yeah Intel hosed up with mobile" news
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/intel...-114807177.html


I do love how the forecasted cost, the thing that drove the decision, was wrong.

Forecasts or projections, by nature, are always wrong. You would be considered lucky if every forecast was even in the right ball park. Until someone can tell the future, forecasts are all we have to give an educated guess of what things will look like in the future. The success of the iPhone was unpredictable given the figures at the time, and that's why intel didn't do it. Not a dumb move at the time because they had so many cash cows already. Of course, hindsight is 20/20.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

Nap Ghost

I remember seeing the iPhone announcement and Steve Jobs hoping they'll get 10% of the smartphone market on a slide while I laughed going "Wow, that's ambitious, they don't even have 10% of desktop or laptop sales." I didn't realize that Nokia, Blackberry, and Palm would fall flat on their face versus the iPhone 3G and that Google wasn't quite ready with that Android acquisition from years before. Now that's a CEO underpromising and overdelivering if you can see it.

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006


It is amazing when you think about just how much of a lead Blackberry squandered

blaitarch
Nov 19, 2002


WHAT A GOOD DOG posted:

So I just bought an Asus Zenbook Prime UX31A (i5/128gb SSD/4GB RAM) and I can still return it for 25 more days. I love everything about this computer and am wondering if I'll be able to get the same thing but with the Haswell poo poo inside of it?

I know there will be comparable Ultrabooks but I'm curious if I should just return this thing now and wait and see? I hear it's just better at everything: graphics, speed, battery life but I need it by August so I don't know if there will be an ultrabook for me at that point?

I helped you with that - you will also be paying an extra $500 over the 800 (?) or 900 (?) you originally spent to get a fresh off the line UX-model.

cstine
Apr 15, 2004

What's in the box?!?

necrobobsledder posted:

I remember seeing the iPhone announcement and Steve Jobs hoping they'll get 10% of the smartphone market on a slide while I laughed going "Wow, that's ambitious, they don't even have 10% of desktop or laptop sales." I didn't realize that Nokia, Blackberry, and Palm would fall flat on their face versus the iPhone 3G and that Google wasn't quite ready with that Android acquisition from years before. Now that's a CEO underpromising and overdelivering if you can see it.

What's even more astounding - 10% of the smartphone market in 2008 IS NOT even remotely close to 10% of the smartphone market now.

I don't think ANYONE saw smartphones exploding like they have, and the fact that nearly every legacy smartphone vendor (nokia, rim, palm, sony ericcson) hosed poo poo up so badly they're all bordering on being out of the market (or already are) entirely.

Mofabio
May 15, 2003
(y - mx)*(1/(inf))*(PV/RT)*(2.718)*(V/I)

cstine posted:

What's even more astounding - 10% of the smartphone market in 2008 IS NOT even remotely close to 10% of the smartphone market now.

I don't think ANYONE saw smartphones exploding like they have, and the fact that nearly every legacy smartphone vendor (nokia, rim, palm, sony ericcson) hosed poo poo up so badly they're all bordering on being out of the market (or already are) entirely.

IIRC Jobs said they'd be happy with 1%. 1%!

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

cstine posted:

I don't think ANYONE saw smartphones exploding like they have
Really? I mean wasn't it a given that with enough time, eventually every phone would be a smartphone? I'm trying to remember my attitude back then but it's hard.

cstine
Apr 15, 2004

What's in the box?!?

Cicero posted:

Really? I mean wasn't it a given that with enough time, eventually every phone would be a smartphone? I'm trying to remember my attitude back then but it's hard.

In 2007, we were talking junk like windows mobile 6.5, blackberry os 4, symbian, and still ancient junk like palmos.

They were absolute garbage, and iOS was the first "smartphone" that wasn't a buggy junked up pile of poo poo covered in crapware in the US.

I'm not even sure i'd call the original iPhone a 'smartphone' - it just had a browser that wasn't garbage, and it was shiny.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



cstine posted:

In 2007, we were talking junk like windows mobile 6.5, blackberry os 4, symbian, and still ancient junk like palmos.

They were absolute garbage, and iOS was the first "smartphone" that wasn't a buggy junked up pile of poo poo covered in crapware in the US.

I'm not even sure i'd call the original iPhone a 'smartphone' - it just had a browser that wasn't garbage, and it was shiny.

But that's all smartphones were back then, a phone with a terrible browser and terrible email support.

cstine
Apr 15, 2004

What's in the box?!?

hobbesmaster posted:

But that's all smartphones were back then, a phone with a terrible browser and terrible email support.

And 3rd party apps - which was the big missing thing at the iPhone launch.

But no, I really don't think ANYONE expected smartphones to blow up, because at the time, they were all clunky expensive piles of junk.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003


Hello darkness,
my old friend


go3 posted:

It is amazing when you think about just how much of a lead Blackberry Microsoft squandered

MS has a pretty good thing going with WinMo 6, and completely pissed it away by not updating anything ever.

VulgarandStupid
Aug 5, 2003
I AM, AND ALWAYS WILL BE, UNFUCKABLE AND A TOTAL DISAPPOINTMENT TO EVERYONE. DAE WANNA CUM PLAY WITH ME!?


mayodreams posted:

MS has a pretty good thing going with WinMo 6, and completely pissed it away by not updating anything ever.

Pretty sure wm7 didn't have VPN and Microsoft dared to advertise as a phone for productivity.

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006


mayodreams posted:

MS has a pretty good thing going with WinMo 6, and completely pissed it away by not updating anything ever.

This too. I loved WinMo on my HTC 8125/8525

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe


hobbesmaster posted:

But that's all smartphones were back then, a phone with a terrible browser and terrible email support.


cstine posted:

And 3rd party apps - which was the big missing thing at the iPhone launch.

But no, I really don't think ANYONE expected smartphones to blow up, because at the time, they were all clunky expensive piles of junk.


So? They were more popular then PDAs had been, and we'd already seen "cell phones in general" reach billions sold by that time. As well already knowing that regular computers had taken off.

The only question back then was "when will everyone have a smartphone" not "will smartphones ever be popular". Heck at that point a lot of features once considered exclusive to smartphones - like real data connections, browsers beyond WAP, music playback, screens that could actually show something besides text - had started appearing on regular phones.



And for what it's worth, for Intel, getting the iPhone SoC contract wouldn't have necessarily guaranteed success in the mobile arena. Not only have there been a lot more other smartphones sold and tablets, but Apple could have switched off of Intel to do chips on their own just like they did with Samsung's ARM CPUs from the original iPhones.

cstine
Apr 15, 2004

What's in the box?!?

Install Gentoo posted:

So? They were more popular then PDAs had been, and we'd already seen "cell phones in general" reach billions sold by that time. As well already knowing that regular computers had taken off.

The only question back then was "when will everyone have a smartphone" not "will smartphones ever be popular". Heck at that point a lot of features once considered exclusive to smartphones - like real data connections, browsers beyond WAP, music playback, screens that could actually show something besides text - had started appearing on regular phones.



And for what it's worth, for Intel, getting the iPhone SoC contract wouldn't have necessarily guaranteed success in the mobile arena. Not only have there been a lot more other smartphones sold and tablets, but Apple could have switched off of Intel to do chips on their own just like they did with Samsung's ARM CPUs from the original iPhones.

Those pre-iPhone/Android smartphones were pretty bad - you're looking back through some rose-colored glasses and being smart enough to figure out which end is up on a power button - my mom couldn't figure out how to use her RAZR, and she's on her fourth iPhone - and, don't forget - Android looked like a Blackberry until very very late in it's development cycle.

As for Intel? No. I don't think it's fair to look back and go "Haha look at those idiots, not getting on on mobile". At the time it wasn't really a profitable market, and at the time I'd wager their forecasts made perfect sense based on prior data. That said, I expect them to make a LOT of headway in the tablet side of the market, myself. Being faster rather than being completely concerned about getting a full day of battery life out of a tiny little battery makes perfect sense for that market - though I expect there'll be chips that'll give ARM some competition on the phone side, too.

Win 8 on tablets is actually pretty good, but ARM for that market makes no goddamn sense - the only reason to run Windows anywhere is the gigantic library of software.

Win 8 pro tablets on the next gen atoms are entirely on the list of stuff I'm going to have to look very very closely at before buying anything.

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



Install Gentoo posted:

And for what it's worth, for Intel, getting the iPhone SoC contract wouldn't have necessarily guaranteed success in the mobile arena. Not only have there been a lot more other smartphones sold and tablets, but Apple could have switched off of Intel to do chips on their own just like they did with Samsung's ARM CPUs from the original iPhones.

I don't believe switching from ARM to ARM isn't quite as big of a deal as switching from x86 to ARM or vice versa, but I could be wrong. It's not an impossible thing to do but you would have had some inertia on your side and Apple hounding your rear end to make a better product that fit their needs. Instead, Apple went off and figured out they are perfectly happy designing their own stuff and got lots of experience doing it. Now Intel has to make something that much more compelling to get Apple to consider switching.

quote:

As for Intel? No. I don't think it's fair to look back and go "Haha look at those idiots, not getting on on mobile". At the time it wasn't really a profitable market, and at the time I'd wager their forecasts made perfect sense based on prior data. That said, I expect them to make a LOT of headway in the tablet side of the market, myself. Being faster rather than being completely concerned about getting a full day of battery life out of a tiny little battery makes perfect sense for that market - though I expect there'll be chips that'll give ARM some competition on the phone side, too.

It wasn't just Apple, it was that and then a train of malaise with lackluster refreshes and stuff like Meego (although I guess Tizen could pan out). I get that mountains had to be moved with a company as big as Intel which is so ingrained in doing and selling things a certain way, but I've always viewed that more of an excuse than a justification.

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

The flip side to slow to change direction being that once Intel starts focusing something, they're bringing incredible pressure to bear on the problem.

WhyteRyce posted:

I don't believe switching from ARM to ARM isn't quite as big of a deal as switching from x86 to ARM or vice versa, but I could be wrong.
Haven't had time to read the articles on this, but there's no way they were pitching x86 back on the original iPhone design. Had to be the Xscale ARM stuff.

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



JawnV6 posted:

The flip side to slow to change direction being that once Intel starts focusing something, they're bringing incredible pressure to bear on the problem.


Yes, I'm imagining a world where Intel is flinging 14nm SOCs out the door as fast as they can make them while TSMC is still trying to figure out 20nm and INTC is riding a rocket to the moon.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe


WhyteRyce posted:

I don't believe switching from ARM to ARM isn't quite as big of a deal as switching from x86 to ARM or vice versa, but I could be wrong. It's not an impossible thing to do but you would have had some inertia on your side and Apple hounding your rear end to make a better product that fit their needs. Instead, Apple went off and figured out they are perfectly happy designing their own stuff and got lots of experience doing it. Now Intel has to make something that much more compelling to get Apple to consider switching.

Intel definitely did not have a suitable low power chipset ready besides the XScale ARM stuff they sold off in 2006, around the time Apple would have been shopping around. So it'd have to have been ARM XScale or nothing.

cstine posted:

Those pre-iPhone/Android smartphones were pretty bad - you're looking back through some rose-colored glasses and being smart enough to figure out which end is up on a power button - my mom couldn't figure out how to use her RAZR, and she's on her fourth iPhone - and, don't forget - Android looked like a Blackberry until very very late in it's development cycle.

I'm not looking at it with rose colored glasses, people were well aware "when a new category of computing comes out its niche, but it'll eventually be everyone-usable" by 2005-2007. So Symbian sucked poo poo, big deal, any home computer you care to name in the 80s was pretty awful for the public but that changed very quickly. The question going on was "will smartphones be mainstream in 2010 or not til 2020?" not "will smartphones be mainstream". Lots of companies made decisions based on "yeah its going to take a while" instead of "its going to be real soon".

cstine
Apr 15, 2004

What's in the box?!?

WhyteRyce posted:

Yes, I'm imagining a world where Intel is flinging 14nm SOCs out the door as fast as they can make them while TSMC is still trying to figure out 20nm and INTC is riding a rocket to the moon.

Honestly I don't think there needs to be an enormous amount of imagination there - if there's ANYTHING Intel is good at, it's process engineering.

I'm not sure the real competition in this space is TSMC anymore - I'd say you should be watching Samsung, who is already taping out 14nm chips, while TSMC is sitting there unable to make 28nm GPUs in volume due to poo poo yields.

Phantom Limb
Jun 30, 2005

blargh

cstine posted:

Honestly I don't think there needs to be an enormous amount of imagination there - if there's ANYTHING Intel is good at, it's process engineering.

I'm not sure the real competition in this space is TSMC anymore - I'd say you should be watching Samsung, who is already taping out 14nm chips, while TSMC is sitting there unable to make 28nm GPUs in volume due to poo poo yields.

Yeah, nobody has the resources to catch up to Intel process-wise. Even Samsung is 6 months to a year behind on 14nm (Intel had working prototype Broadwell on 14nm in like May of 2012 or earlier, while Samsung was taping out a test chip in December) and TSMC/GloFo are basically lost causes at small process nodes at this point. TSMC's yields are poo poo while GloFo isn't doing FinFET or 14nm until 2014.

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mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003


Hello darkness,
my old friend


go3 posted:

This too. I loved WinMo on my HTC 8125/8525

Sup 8125 buddy.

cstine posted:

Those pre-iPhone/Android smartphones were pretty bad - you're looking back through some rose-colored glasses and being smart enough to figure out which end is up on a power button - my mom couldn't figure out how to use her RAZR, and she's on her fourth iPhone - and, don't forget - Android looked like a Blackberry until very very late in it's development cycle.

Yes, they were bad in comparison to the iPhone 3G, but I loved my 8125 because I was able to read email, have task lists, and read books (WAY before it was cool) on the go. The BlackJack II was a pretty good phone too. Let's also not forget that the iPhone 3G wasn't that great until IOS 3 when it got MMS and copy and paste, which WinMo had for YEARS before that.

The real shame is the death of WebOS. I had the original Pre, which was underpowered, but the OS was great.

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