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sleepness
Feb 9, 2006



Is there a general consensus for a "money doesn't matter" monitor for gaming?

Treated myself to a new rig and want to upgrade my monitor, currently a 27'' LG TN panel

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Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


Nope. An IPS panel will give you beautiful color and viewing angles, and a 120Hz TN panel will give you blisteringly low input lag and open up extreme frame rates. Can't get both at the same time.

text editor
Jan 8, 2007



sleepness posted:

Is there a general consensus for a "money doesn't matter" monitor for gaming?

Treated myself to a new rig and want to upgrade my monitor, currently a 27'' LG TN panel

I'm not sure but I willing to spend a lot more on my next monitor to get a quality brand, since my 27" LG TN just stopped working (backlight? It's time for a LED monitor)


Which makes me want to ask - is my assumption correct that LED-based backlights are more evenly lit and don't burn out as easily?

GreenBuckanneer
Sep 15, 2007




Factory Factory posted:

Nope. An IPS panel will give you beautiful color and viewing angles, and a 120Hz TN panel will give you blisteringly low input lag and open up extreme frame rates. Can't get both at the same time.

Wait...So IPS panels are bad for gaming?

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


GreenBuckanneer posted:

Wait...So IPS panels are bad for gaming?

I didn't say that. It's just that they don't have quite as low input lag as a 120Hz TN panel. I think somebody did measurements a few pages back showing a U2410 having an average of 31 ms of input lag in normal mode and 17 ms in Gaming mode, where a gaming TN would average below 10 ms. Some people are just that twitchy. Personally, I can notice the difference between non-gaming and gaming on my U2410, but I wouldn't have thought it had anything to do with the monitor before I discovered the "gaming" setting, since I hadn't been playing FPS for for a while. Before I switched the setting, I was, well, kinda uncharacteristically bad at L4D2 and noticing that my shots didn't precisely line up with where the hitboxes should be. Make the switch to Gaming mode and immediately my accuracy doubles because I can react to what I see more effectively.

A non-120Hz/"gaming" TN panel could have the same issues, depending on the image processing. IPS panels aren't physically fast enough to work at 120Hz.

Factory Factory fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Apr 24, 2011

Zhentar
Sep 28, 2003

Brilliant Master Genius


ClosedBSD posted:

is my assumption correct that LED-based backlights are more evenly lit

Only if it's LED backlit, and not LED edge-lit (which is popular since you can make amazingly thin panels that way).

orborborb
Jan 20, 2004



sleepness posted:

Is there a general consensus for a "money doesn't matter" monitor for gaming?

Treated myself to a new rig and want to upgrade my monitor, currently a 27'' LG TN panel

A CRT is still the only way to get good color/viewing angles/black levels AND low input lag/high framerates. The best is probably the 24 inch Sony FW900.

I upgraded from a NEC 20WMGX2 to a 22 inch Diamondtron CRT I found on craigslist last year because I couldn't live with the viewing angle and color problems of the 120hz LCDs any more than I could be happy with 60hz gaming. I bought an HDfury to plug my PS3 and 360 into it as well after comparing it to a top of the line 46 inch panasonic plasma and preferring it. If you can sit close to the screen a CRT is still the ideal technology for everything related to personal gaming.

orborborb fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Apr 24, 2011

sleepness
Feb 9, 2006



I do want to make the switch to IPS, but I'm not sure I would notice the input lag difference. Is there something I can install to check the lag of my current monitor? It doesn't seem to be listed in any type of input lag benchmark.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

orborborb posted:

A CRT is still the only way to get good color/viewing angles/black levels AND low input lag/high framerates. The best is probably the 24 inch Sony FW900.
While undoubtedly a fantastic monitor, the FW900's days have past. These days they're stupid expensive ($800+ for one in good condition once you factor in shipping), come with no/very limited warranty, will require extensive tweaking/converging on a regular basis, are gigantic (and 92 pounds!), etc. They're just not a good option unless you have a very specific need, and/or just can't give up a CRT because you hate progress/LCDs/whatever.

sleepness posted:

I do want to make the switch to IPS, but I'm not sure I would notice the input lag difference. Is there something I can install to check the lag of my current monitor? It doesn't seem to be listed in any type of input lag benchmark.
Sadly, there is nothing that'll help you out on that; manufacturers never give any sort of useful lag/latency measurement. poo poo, even when being reviewed, the accepted method of testing lag is to get a fast camera, put a clock on the display, and compare it against a reference monitor. On the upside, it's likely that most monitors you'd be looking at (even the IPS ones) will have input lag of what you're used to or lower--if you give me a model number for your current monitor I could check, but "a few years old and 27-inch" makes me think something in the 20-30ms range. So if you're ok with it as-is, something like the U2711 or Apple Cinema Display will probably be at least as good on that front.

orborborb
Jan 20, 2004



DrDork posted:

While undoubtedly a fantastic monitor, the FW900's days have past. These days they're stupid expensive ($800+ for one in good condition once you factor in shipping), come with no/very limited warranty, will require extensive tweaking/converging on a regular basis, are gigantic (and 92 pounds!), etc. They're just not a good option unless you have a very specific need, and/or just can't give up a CRT because you hate progress/LCDs/whatever.

He said money was no object You definitely do have to factor in repair and calibration and annoying shipping issues if you get a used CRT. A 120hz LCD is what I'd recommend to most gamers, but they simply do NOT have color quality or black levels in the same league as even a sub-par CRT. My own luck was to find some brand new old stock Diamondtron CRTs for $75 each.

My favorite thing about sticking with CRTs is being able to run VGA, SVGA, XVGA, SXVGA, 720p, and 1080p all without ugly scaling. Because few games are improved by rendering them at a higher resolution than was intended when they were created, even if your graphics card can handle it. Not until 4K 120hz OLEDs do I expect to be able to completely simulate the image of a CRT monitor. Then I can worry about whether de-interlacing algorithms can replicate the image of an old CRT TV for console games.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

"You are the best poster... do not let anyone say otherwise."


Here are the "money doesn't matter" options:

PVM-E250

25" Trimaster EL 1920x1080 OLED monitor
$26,000

PVM-2541

25" 1920x1080 OLED monitor
Apparently not announced yet

Video overview

redstormpopcorn
Jun 10, 2007
Aurora Master

Looking to buy a new monitor within the next few months; replacing a CRT (venerable Compaq P900) primarily for gaming, so I'd love to jump on the 120Hz bandwagon. Before I drop a quartet of Benjamins on the Alienware AW2310 that reviews have been pointing at as superior to Acer's $50ish-less GD235HZbid, is there anything newer, better, or smarter either recently released or on the horizon? It looks to me that the display market has stagnated a bit over the past year or so, hopefully you gents can say otherwise.

sleepness
Feb 9, 2006



DrDork posted:

Sadly, there is nothing that'll help you out on that; manufacturers never give any sort of useful lag/latency measurement. poo poo, even when being reviewed, the accepted method of testing lag is to get a fast camera, put a clock on the display, and compare it against a reference monitor. On the upside, it's likely that most monitors you'd be looking at (even the IPS ones) will have input lag of what you're used to or lower--if you give me a model number for your current monitor I could check, but "a few years old and 27-inch" makes me think something in the 20-30ms range. So if you're ok with it as-is, something like the U2711 or Apple Cinema Display will probably be at least as good on that front.

Your help would be greatly appreciated with this. The U2711 was what I was looking at specifically. While I love the apple cinema, I don't want to have to bother fiddling around with buying adapters.

Here is my current monitor:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16824005127
(LG W2753V-PF Black 27" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Full HD 1080P Widescreen LCD Monitor 400 cd/m2 50000:1 w/ Smart Package)

movax
Aug 30, 2008



DrDork posted:

While undoubtedly a fantastic monitor, the FW900's days have past. These days they're stupid expensive ($800+ for one in good condition once you factor in shipping), come with no/very limited warranty, will require extensive tweaking/converging on a regular basis, are gigantic (and 92 pounds!), etc. They're just not a good option unless you have a very specific need, and/or just can't give up a CRT because you hate progress/LCDs/whatever.

I definitely am/was a CRT die-hard (as evidenced by the little comments about CRTs in the OP), and own 3 FW900s. However, after unfortunate nicks on the AG coating, and spending hours tweaking the drat thing (focus pots + WinDAS hookup, etc), I couldn't take it anymore and finally migrated to a U3011.

Black levels, response time, scaling, etc all suffered, but in the long run it was worth the trade off of having razor sharp text across the whole screen (you cannot do this on a CRT) and still having the capability to play games. (No warm-up period was helpful too, I used to run a blank black screensaver on my FW900 so that when I walked away, it'd still stay on and heated in case I came back in a bit).

Besides, all 280 lbs. of those loving things are in the closet should I ever decide to go back to them. I got super lucky back in 2007; I read about the FW900, decided to look on Craigslist, and found 3 in less than a week for less than $100 total.

sleepness
Feb 9, 2006



mobby_6kl posted:

Here are the "money doesn't matter" options:

That's a little bit TOO much "money doesn't matter"

mitztronic
Jun 17, 2005

mixcloud.com/mitztronic


sleepness posted:

That's a little bit TOO much "money doesn't matter"

If your video card can support it (good luck, there are like 4 video cards in the world that have minidisplayport), get an apple cinema display.

e: Nevermind, lots of ATI cards have displayport outputs. Not nvidia though

mitztronic fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Apr 25, 2011

sleepness
Feb 9, 2006



jonmitz posted:

If your video card can support it (good luck, there are like 4 video cards in the world that have minidisplayport), get an apple cinema display.

e: Nevermind, lots of ATI cards have displayport outputs. Not nvidia though

I'm running a nVidia card, and I didn't really want to fiddle with adapters, so I went ahead and bit the bullet on a U2711.

Gwaihir
Dec 8, 2009



Hair Elf

It would be really quite hard to be disappointed with any of the good IPS options- U2410, U2711, or any of the 30"s are all fine purchases.

GreenBuckanneer
Sep 15, 2007




mobby_6kl posted:

Here are the "money doesn't matter" options:


Money doesn't matter then displays a 16:9 resolution? Farrrrk that.

evensevenone
May 12, 2001
Glass is a solid.

At some point this thread is going to have to come to terms with the fact that there aren't going to be any new 16:10 monitors.

pokecapn
Oct 17, 2003

yeah, galo sengen

evensevenone posted:

At some point this thread is going to have to come to terms with the fact that there aren't going to be any new 16:10 monitors.

I was about to say "At least they won't touch the WQXGA monitors", but then I searched around and found out that most 27+" monitors coming out really are 2560x1440

Grog
Mar 31, 2007



Samsung might be coming out with a 24" 16:10 version of their S-PLS monitor. Other than that and ASUS's new IPS, yeah, there's not much from the 16:10 department.

GreenBuckanneer
Sep 15, 2007




I'm gonna have to buy a 1920x1200 then soon before they're flooded with this plebeian 16:9 poo poo

smug forum asshole
Jan 15, 2005


Just got my replacement U2311H. I'm getting the old monitor set up to return to Dell.

Which of the numbers on the outside of the box is the DELL DPS number and which is the DELL Exchange Order number? And why should I be writing them on the return waybill, as well as the outside of the box, if there are no fields for me to write this information on the return waybill?

smug forum asshole
Jan 15, 2005


Also, this replacement monitor has a few stuck/dead pixels in the upper left hand corner of the screen. Have any of you had success in repairing/"massaging" stuck/dead pixels?

Rollie Fingers
Jul 28, 2002


smug forum rear end in a top hat posted:

Also, this replacement monitor has a few stuck/dead pixels in the upper left hand corner of the screen. Have any of you had success in repairing/"massaging" stuck/dead pixels?

Yep. I had a pixel stuck on green for a couple of days. I tried to ignore it but it was too close to the centre of the screen.

I massaged the area around the stuck pixel for a couple of minutes and hoped for the best. The next time I switched the monitor on, the green pixel was working again.

mitztronic
Jun 17, 2005

mixcloud.com/mitztronic


Can anyone comment on this monitor? It was %50 off ($170) this weekend so I got one. Seemed like a good deal.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ntent-_-text-_-

I really wanted something with >1080 resolution but that seems almost impossible nowadays...

I'm wondering if maybe I should return it an get one of the dell IPS displays..

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

It's probably an alright, thought not amazing panel. Mind you, any of the Dell's we're talking about here are going to be noticeably more expensive, so factor that in. If you're not overly concerned about color quality, you'll probably be fine.

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


Quanta posted:

Yep. I had a pixel stuck on green for a couple of days. I tried to ignore it but it was too close to the centre of the screen.

I massaged the area around the stuck pixel for a couple of minutes and hoped for the best. The next time I switched the monitor on, the green pixel was working again.



I looked up this Wikihow article after reading your post, ran one of the pixel stimulator programs for an hour, and then gave three light taps with a pen cap, and that fixed my laptop's stuck pixel.

El_Matarife
Sep 28, 2002


Okay I assume this is a decent enough place to talk projectors. If not, ignore me.

I've gotta order a new projector for our conference room, in an upside down ceiling mount. Unfortunately, an increasing amount of my companies higher ups want to use their Macs with it so I need DisplayPort. I can't find a single projector with DisplayPort on Projector Central or Newegg or even by Googling "Projector displayport", do they exist? I'm pretty sure I need 1024 or 1280 wide at a minimum, and I don't really care if I end up 16:9 or 16:10.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

El_Matarife posted:

Unfortunately, an increasing amount of my companies higher ups want to use their Macs with it so I need DisplayPort. I can't find a single projector with DisplayPort on Projector Central or Newegg or even by Googling "Projector displayport", do they exist?
Right now they basically do not exist. There might be a few brand new high-end ones which do, but that's about it. On the up-side, it's not really a problem. You can get cheap, effective mini-DP to DVI adapters for less than $10 shipped. Use that on the Mac side, and then just run a normal DVI cable to the projector. It would, however, have to be a DVI/HDMI projector--you can't go DP->DVI/HDMI->VGA/Component/S-Video without a more expensive adapter.

movax
Aug 30, 2008



El_Matarife posted:

Okay I assume this is a decent enough place to talk projectors. If not, ignore me.

I've gotta order a new projector for our conference room, in an upside down ceiling mount. Unfortunately, an increasing amount of my companies higher ups want to use their Macs with it so I need DisplayPort. I can't find a single projector with DisplayPort on Projector Central or Newegg or even by Googling "Projector displayport", do they exist? I'm pretty sure I need 1024 or 1280 wide at a minimum, and I don't really care if I end up 16:9 or 16:10.

Get a business-class Dell projector than run a DVI and VGA cable down to the table. Use afore-mentioned Mini-DP<->DVI and/or Mini-DP<->VGA adapters to interface with projector.

The most difficult part will likely be getting the muckity-mucks to remember to bring the adapters lest they just start jamming things into their Mac like cavemen going "WHY IT NO FIT BUNGA WUNGA "

archangelwar
Oct 28, 2004

Teaching Moments


What about this?

http://www.hazro.com/index.php?pid1.html

I have heard great things about these monitors, but why the gently caress can't we have them in the US, nor have them shipped here? I mean, they are supposed to be on par with the U2711 but at $600, that makes them $500 less than Dell's site.

I have wanted to switch to an IPS, but I seriously cannot justify the price difference in the 27" category, since I am not an artist.

Edit: Also, beware that they are just now adding the shopping cart software to their website, which is why it has been down until today. The site may act funky.

archangelwar fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Apr 28, 2011

El_Matarife
Sep 28, 2002


movax posted:

Get a business-class Dell projector than run a DVI and VGA cable down to the table. Use afore-mentioned Mini-DP<->DVI and/or Mini-DP<->VGA adapters to interface with projector.

The most difficult part will likely be getting the muckity-mucks to remember to bring the adapters lest they just start jamming things into their Mac like cavemen going "WHY IT NO FIT BUNGA WUNGA "

Yeah that's basically been part of the problem, but our current HDMI setup appears to have weird issues with the miniDP -> HDMI converter. I'm like 75% sure they're doing it wrong but I was hoping to just buy something with DisplayPort this time and dodge all the issues.

Seriously though, I can't believe what a pain in the rear end this search is. All the new Dell and HP business laptops are VGA / DP only. According to my Googling, Dell announced a few models of projectors with DisplayPort at one time or another, but nothing in their "Small conference room" section talks about DisplayPort support. They do all seem to have RJ45 Ethernet now, but it doesn't mention network projector support on Vista / 7.

Rollie Fingers
Jul 28, 2002


archangelwar posted:

What about this?

http://www.hazro.com/index.php?pid1.html

I have heard great things about these monitors, but why the gently caress can't we have them in the US, nor have them shipped here? I mean, they are supposed to be on par with the U2711 but at $600, that makes them $500 less than Dell's site.

I've read Hazro is a very small company at the moment and don't have the financial muscle to sell in bulk overseas. Even in the UK they are only selling through one online store. In terms of business, they've essentially started again after producing mediocre monitors for years.

Their newer monitors are an absolute bargain, though. For any Europeans interested in a glossy 27" display, the Hazro HZ27WC is identical to the Apple Cinema Display panel and performance wise, but costs 500 less!

mitztronic
Jun 17, 2005

mixcloud.com/mitztronic


If you know someone in the UK you could always have them buy it for you and ship it... although it would be a huge pain to send it back in if there were dead pixels or something

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


Quanta posted:

Their newer monitors are an absolute bargain, though. For any Europeans interested in a glossy 27" display, the Hazro HZ27WC is identical to the Apple Cinema Display panel and performance wise, but costs 500 less!

72% gamut? That's not not equal performance to the ACD's ~85%.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Factory Factory posted:

72% gamut? That's not not equal performance to the ACD's ~85%.
72%? Their spec sheet says 110% of NTSC CIE1976.

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.


DrDork posted:

72%? Their spec sheet says 110% of NTSC CIE1976.

TFT Central (UK) says otherwise. There are multiple revisions of the screen, using different panels. Plus the electronics are different - the C version, with just a DVI input, is an 8-bit color processor, and only the A version has 10-bit wide gamut hardware, but it's fake-wide-gamut. Reading on, the A and C versions don't use a full 10-bit panel like the one found in the B model and the Dell Ultrasharps. This panel's LG spec sheet lists 99.9% sRGB and 77% NTSC, and the manufacturer's spec says 72%.

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Rollie Fingers
Jul 28, 2002


Factory Factory posted:

72% gamut? That's not not equal performance to the ACD's ~85%.

I think you're mixing colour spaces. The 72% relates to how much the display covers of the NTSC colour gamut, but the 85% figure you've posted probably refers to how much it covers of Adobe RGB 1998 gamut.

Since both the 27" ACD and Hazro HZ27WC are using the same H-IPS panel from LG and use W-LED backlighting, they are both standard gamut screens and will cover only 72% of NTSC colour gamut (W-LED's limitation). If the 27" ACD can cover 85% of AdobeRGB colour space, then the glossy Hazro will most likely match that figure.

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