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Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


Factory Factory posted:

My U2410 rotates to portrait, I can do both
Ugh, I forgot to check if my HP ZR24W pair can do this. Oh well, with three 24" IPS panels I won't exactly be hurting for space.

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BLOWTAKKKS
Feb 14, 2008



kuddles posted:

Are you sure it's not your television? You say it's not but televisions usually aren't built with the expectation of being monitors. Even some of the most high quality HDTVs on the market can lack a good DVI connection or not be very good at displaying crisp text because they're more focused on upscaling SD content or whatever. I have a 37" television but when I run my computer through it the text is certainly not as easily readable as it is on my monitor.

Also, remember that even with you increasing the DPI, the fact remains that every pixel on the screen needs to be bigger to fill 32", so by it's very nature the exact same 1080p image will look sharper on a 23" monitor.

I realize this. I never said anything about the text not being completely crisp, it's not. It's just way too small without increasing the DPI. I'll probably go for the 23 inch dell and play around with it, it just blows having to gently caress around to get readable text.

WanderingKid
Feb 27, 2005

lives here...

You shouldn't have to play around to get readable text though. The pixel pitch of 23" full HD panels is reasonably small. Hell, the insanely small pixel pitch on mobile phone displays and panels like that 13 inch full HD panel on the Sony VAIO Z notebook is the reason why you can read such ickle letters. So the only way you need to adjust DPI to see text is if you sit miles away from your display or you are blind as a bat.

evlbstrd
Jan 9, 2005


Anyone have experience with DELL RMAs?

My 3007 exhibited all sorts of artifacts and distortion this morning, after being bounced around various queues for a couple hours I was issued a replacement that should arrive in a few business days. However the artifacts have since disappeared. I wonder if it has anything to do with overheating. I live in the middle of nowhere and returning the defect panel is going to be a pain in the rear end but I don't want DELL to pull any funny business because the unit is now behaving properly. I have images of the distortion, but their RMA system won't allow me to email them the evidence. Should I cancel the problem and wait until the problem become permanent. Still have a couple years left on warranty.

kuddles
Jul 16, 2006

Like a fist wrapped in blood...

I highly, highly doubt they will cause a fuss even if they can't replicate the problem. The majority of electronic RMA returns are actually things that work perfectly but user error is causing them. That's the reason there's so many "refurbished" models of things coming out and why a lot of companies charge restocking fees.

There were even tons of instances in the old monitor thread that were essentially things like "Hey my monitor is acting up do you know how long an RMA takes...(2 days later) turned out it was just my power bar/old driver/whatever."

Not that I'm saying you're problem isn't genuine. Just that someone on the other side is going to test the entire thing, not just try and replicate your issue, and that guy probably never even talks to the department that decided to send you a replacement.

Infinite Monkeys
Jul 18, 2010

If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.


I just want a 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 monitor but I don't care about super fast refreshing or response times, I will be using it for games, web browsing, youtube etc, the cheaper the better. Any recommendations for a non-lovely monitor? Thanks.

serebralassazin
Feb 20, 2004
I wish I had something clever to say.


evlbstrd posted:

Anyone have experience with DELL RMAs?

My 3007 exhibited all sorts of artifacts and distortion this morning, after being bounced around various queues for a couple hours I was issued a replacement that should arrive in a few business days. However the artifacts have since disappeared. I wonder if it has anything to do with overheating. I live in the middle of nowhere and returning the defect panel is going to be a pain in the rear end but I don't want DELL to pull any funny business because the unit is now behaving properly. I have images of the distortion, but their RMA system won't allow me to email them the evidence. Should I cancel the problem and wait until the problem become permanent. Still have a couple years left on warranty.

I RMA'd two ultrasharps recently. A new U2711 that had backlight bleeding and a 2408WP that literally just died while in use (turned off and didn't turn back on). The U2711 was easy, I emailed got a reply back next day and had a replacement unit in about 3 business days. The older model was harder since it didn't have a service tag I had to call and speak to someone but after I explained the issue and gave them the serial it was literally ok I am sending out a replacement here's the confirmation number (could've been called something else). Replacement monitor was in my house in 3 business days again. They called me like a day later to see if I received the replacement(s) and if everything was working properly now. Perhaps, if you have an issue where they are disputing your claims you can speak to an account manager that you can email the pictures to but I don't think you'll have a problem.

vs Dinosaurs
Mar 14, 2009


The OP's gaming monitor is a bit steep, and has some additional features that I don't need (3D Ready, specifically). Are there any other monitors that are on the cheaper side, will run at 1920x2080, and have a decent refresh rate for gaming?

brap
Aug 23, 2004



Grimey Drawer

Yeah, I guess there isn't a great cheap monitor recommendation in the OP. Just go for whatever cheap acer tn panel is on newegg right now. There aren't any real options for refresh rate besides 60hz and 120hz and response times between monitors vary on the single millisecond level i.e. you won't notice.

vs Dinosaurs
Mar 14, 2009


fleshweasel posted:

Yeah, I guess there isn't a great cheap monitor recommendation in the OP. Just go for whatever cheap acer tn panel is on newegg right now. There aren't any real options for refresh rate besides 60hz and 120hz and response times between monitors vary on the single millisecond level i.e. you won't notice.

It is hard to tell when internet enthusiasts are sperging about something, ala refresh rates, or if it is something that it fairly noticeable.


Flesh, any specific reason to go with an ACER over an ASUS (of almost the same specs) given that the ASUS has a 3 year warranty?

kuddles
Jul 16, 2006

Like a fist wrapped in blood...

vs Dinosaurs posted:

It is hard to tell when internet enthusiasts are sperging about something, ala refresh rates, or if it is something that it fairly noticeable.
It's noticeable, no doubt about that. Whether it's noticeable enough for you to care is another matter.

The Asus I linked to in the last page is pretty decent. I don't own it myself but I bought it for 3 others and other than the typical Asus issues (the manual is barely useful and the menu navigation isn't the greatest), it's got a pretty good screen as far as TN panels go and works fine.

That said, I think why there's no clear recommendation is that the cheap TN market have been refined and mass produced for so long that as long as you don't go insanely cheap and stick to well-known brands (Asus, Acer, Samsung, etc.) it's unlikely you'll end up with a lemon.

brap
Aug 23, 2004



Grimey Drawer

What kuddles said; the brand doesn't really matter for cheap monitors although asus has a somewhat better reputation than acer for computers.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

kuddles posted:

That said, I think why there's no clear recommendation is that the cheap TN market have been refined and mass produced for so long that as long as you don't go insanely cheap and stick to well-known brands (Asus, Acer, Samsung, etc.) it's unlikely you'll end up with a lemon.
Pretty much this. Manufactures have figured out and perfected how to make TN monitors now, so you're likely to get similar quality around a given price point from pretty much whomever you buy from, and you may as well base your decision on which particular one to purchase on things such as aesthetics, available rebates, and whatever minor add-ins that they may differ by. Eg, it doesn't really matter, pick one that you think looks pretty.

.random
May 7, 2007



I was wondering if anyone was aware of any new options in the non-TN range that were on the relatively-near horizon (say, within the first half of the year).

Some of the monitors at CES looked interesting (like the ASUS PA246Q), but the time-to-market is always a shot in the dark with those and I no longer know of a good source for monitor news and updates. Most sites I used to look at are tragically outdated and my searches have not yielded very good results.

So... anyone know of any upcoming displays with promise? (And/or a place for fairly useful and up-to-date news on the subject?)

Crosby B. Alfred
May 20, 2006


TFT Central is a excellent place for reviews but I haven't found a place for industry information of the sort. I think that most LCD manufactures are trying to get in on smartphone craze and are putting all their resources into that.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Tab8715 posted:

I think that most LCD manufactures are trying to get in on smartphone craze and are putting all their resources into that.
More or less. Consumer-grade TN-panels are now a "solved" issue and a commodity product, so there's very little going on there. IPS/PVA pretty much has the graphic/artist/quality sector on lock-down, and there doesn't seem to be many sectors whose needs aren't being met. 120Hz TN-panels are starting to come out in more numbers, but unless you're doing 3D stuff or are into high framerate FPS games, the benefit over a 60Hz TN is usually not worth the price.

So about the only think we're likely to see this year is drops in prices of stuff we've more or less already seen, an increase in DP support, and a move to more LED backlighting (which has advantages over CCFL mostly in power usage, heat, and life-span. Doesn't do much for visual quality). Maybe some more forays into wide-gamut support.

Paino
Apr 21, 2007

by T. Finninho


Finally bought my U2311H.

I'm very satisfied with the purchase, except I wanted to tear my eyeballs on minute 1 because the factory setting is TOO loving SHARP. It's like a dagger piercing through your eyes and sinking into your brain. I'm not exaggerating, it's that bright. Obviously you can change it and I warmly recommend never going above 30% if you don't want to go blind.

Other than that the colors are incredible compared to my old TN. This is one beautiful monitor. The only gripe I have is that I saw it sitting next to a U2711 in the shop where I bought it. Now the U2311H can hold its own in color fidelity and overall image quality but oh my loving god the blacks. The blacks.

I was expecting this monitor to have great blacks but nope. They're better than a TN but not by that much. This is a major drawback and I'm surprised no one mentioned it anywhere in the thread. The counterpoint may be that unless you want to spend 700$ more you should just give up because night scenes in movies will look like poo poo on any reasonably priced LCD. Hell, only on Plasmas you see good blacks, they're barely acceptable even on Samsung LED HDTVs.

tl;dr: I'm a bit grumpy and think that LCDs should be replaced by a new technology that doesn't suck, but the U2311H is the best monitor you can buy in that price range.

Grog
Mar 31, 2007



Paino posted:

tl;dr: I'm a bit grumpy and think that LCDs should be replaced by a new technology that doesn't suck
Hm. Good luck with that idea. LCD currently takes up too much of the display industry's collective attention and makes up too much of their current market for the other technologies to make significant headway. So, you're probably going to be waiting a while before anything better comes out and then even longer before the new technology's at a palatable price.

Actually, when we get more widespread use of things like full RGB LED backlighting, that should help fix issues like poor black levels and contrast a bit more. I don't know how well they compare to the levels you can get with plasma, though.

Grog fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Jan 20, 2011

Paino
Apr 21, 2007

by T. Finninho


Some dillweed posted:

Hm. Good luck with that idea. LCD currently takes up too much of the display industry's collective attention and makes up too much of their current market for the other technologies to make significant headway. So, you're probably going to be waiting a while before anything better comes out and then even longer before the new technology's at a palatable price.

The color black will be there, waiting for me. Last time I saw it at home was on a pricy 1998 Sony CRT, now all I see is different shades of gray with lovely lighting behind it. And they called it HDTV? gently caress you.

By the way, full array LED are not as bad but they're expensive and the shades of grey are only slightly darker, with more detail in them. Still nothing a somewhat decent percent (ie: not the marketing guys) would ever call black.

Rollie Fingers
Jul 28, 2002


We have to pray for OLED displays to become common in the near future.

I saw the 15-inch LG OLED TV and it blew me away. The blacks were incredible, the contrast was incredible and the viewing angles made any IPS display look like an ancient piece of poo poo.

It's a shame LG seems to be the only company putting any sort of effort into bigger OLED TVs/monitors.

Here's a 31-inch OLED TV LG is soon releasing for an exorbitant price: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnRYScqogF0

Can't wait until I have a 24-inch version on my computer desk.

Rollie Fingers fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Jan 20, 2011

Metanaut
Oct 9, 2006

Honey it's tight like that.

College Slice

Samsung is supposed to release their first OLED TV's in 2012, with good luck we might see some monitors this year.

WanderingKid
Feb 27, 2005

lives here...

Paino posted:

The only gripe I have is that I saw it sitting next to a U2711 in the shop where I bought it. Now the U2311H can hold its own in color fidelity and overall image quality but oh my loving god the blacks. The blacks.

I was expecting this monitor to have great blacks but nope. They're better than a TN but not by that much. This is a major drawback and I'm surprised no one mentioned it anywhere in the thread. The counterpoint may be that unless you want to spend 700$ more you should just give up because night scenes in movies will look like poo poo on any reasonably priced LCD. Hell, only on Plasmas you see good blacks, they're barely acceptable even on Samsung LED HDTVs.

tl;dr: I'm a bit grumpy and think that LCDs should be replaced by a new technology that doesn't suck, but the U2311H is the best monitor you can buy in that price range.

I believe the correct formula for calculating U2311H black levels goes something like:

real black level = uncalibrated black level/(U2711 price - U2311H price) x 1/(x grams of coke + y hookers purchased with savings)

Perfect Potato
Mar 4, 2009


I have a Dell 2209WA and I'm noticing now in the centre of the screen, there's this faded line that seems to show up on any colour that isn't pure white or black. I've had the monitor for almost two years now, and only noticed it a week ago. I'm terrible about this sort of thing, so now it's basically all see whenever I'm staring at the monitor.

I tried using the LCD Conditioning function on the monitor, but after a day it hadn't finished yet and I needed to use the PC, so I had to terminate the function. How long is it supposed to normally take, and would it actually help at all? I've cleaned the monitor screen after noticing the issue, so it's not tied to anything being stuck on the screen.

If it's an issue that can't be fixed, I'd probably just try and go for a higher resolution monitor. If I'm just a guy who watches video and plays games, is the difference between TN and IPS something I'd miss, or would I be better off going the cheap and dirty route? I've noticed a P2411H on dell's site for 199$ Canadian that seems alright.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Perfect Potato posted:

If it's an issue that can't be fixed, I'd probably just try and go for a higher resolution monitor. If I'm just a guy who watches video and plays games, is the difference between TN and IPS something I'd miss, or would I be better off going the cheap and dirty route? I've noticed a P2411H on dell's site for 199$ Canadian that seems alright.
Coming from the 2209WA (An IPS monitor), if you went with a TN you'd plug it in and immediately go "wtf is this poo poo?! This...looks like poo poo!" and be pretty disappointed with how your 2+ year old monitor looks better than your new hotness. Especially if you put them next to each other. Not sure how close you are to a friend across the border, but the U2211H is on sale for $199 US right now--the Canadian Dell store wants more like $320 or something (which is crazy since they only want another $20 or so for the U2311H).

movax
Aug 30, 2008



Paino posted:

The color black will be there, waiting for me. Last time I saw it at home was on a pricy 1998 Sony CRT, now all I see is different shades of gray with lovely lighting behind it. And they called it HDTV? gently caress you.

I had FW900s as my monitors for the longest time, the blacks and refresh rate were sol incredibly glorious.

Then I got tired of upkeep on them, shielded 'em in garbage bags, and put them into storage. Loving my U3011 + 2x 2209WAs now (no room for my old Gateway, so gave that to my little brother).

Off-topic question though, that I just realized...does running multiple monitors off one graphics card kill 3D game performance? I had 4 monitors for the longest time, so both cards would have two monitors, but now that I'm down to 3, I can put the 2209s on the little GT210, and leave the GTX460 doing its thang.

I mean, it's just rendering a 2D windows desktop, which I imagine wouldn't be terribly difficult, but maybe it's costing me precious FPS

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

movax posted:

I mean, it's just rendering a 2D windows desktop, which I imagine wouldn't be terribly difficult, but maybe it's costing me precious FPS
As long as you're just rendering a 2D desktop, then no, it doesn't really cost you any noticeable framerate and you can continue to enjoy your multi-monitor goodness safe in the knowledge that you're not somehow gimping yourself. Just note that there usually is a penalty if you're running multiple video cards and have some app that's stretched onto monitors run by separate cards. Keep things contained to a single monitor (or monitors driven by the same card) and you'll be A-Ok.

Alkuan
Sep 8, 2006

Please hide me from those Berzerker's, they wont stop staring.

Dell's Ultrasharp 21.5" is on sale for 199$. Think im gonna go for it, seems like a 30% price reduction would help with the accusation of poor value in the OP...

Thoughts?

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Alkuan posted:

Thoughts?
The OP only has it down as a "terrible value" because at normal prices it's only a $40 jump to the U2311H, so there's really no reason at all to get the smaller one unless you physically can't fit the U2311H on your desk. On sale, it's a $120 difference, completely removing the "terrible value" issue. I'm seriously considering grabbing one, myself, just because.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

"You are the best poster... do not let anyone say otherwise."


Remember how I wasn't sure if I should buy the U2311H a while ago? Yeah I got it.



And it looks like it has some poo poo inside the LCD assembly that makes it look like it has a bunch of dead pixels. It should be a clear RMA case but still a pain in the rear end. I guess this is what happens when you don't check it right in the store.

Also, is it normal for LED backlights to produce noticeable bleeding even at normal viewing angles? This is a 2 second exposure so it's not that bad, but the orange/blue colors in the lower corners are fairly noticeable even in real use:

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

That's...some pretty hosed up poo poo. Looks like some dust or whatnot managed to get behind the panel, which is a big no-no.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

So I bought a Spyder3Pro and gave it a whirl on my Dell U2410. While it does make basically all the colors look a lot better, it really bothers me how it insists on on the brightness being 120 cd/m2, which as best I can figure is achieved by setting the Brightness to 0 and the Contrast to 48. Is this the generally accepted procedure to achieve what the calibration software is asking for? I can't help but feel that whites look a lot better at higher Brigthness settings, but seeing as this is my first time with a colorimeter I figure maybe it's just me not used to how things should be normally.

E: Hell could I just ignore the request to set it to 120 cd/m2 and just keep Brightness/Contrast at 50/50 and let the calibration proceed from there?

Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Jan 22, 2011

VermiciousKnid84
May 28, 2004
A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.

Nate RFB posted:

So I bought a Spyder3Pro and gave it a whirl on my Dell U2410. While it does make basically all the colors look a lot better, it really bothers me how it insists on on the brightness being 120 cd/m2, which as best I can figure is achieved by setting the Brightness to 0 and the Contrast to 48. Is this the generally accepted procedure to achieve what the calibration software is asking for? I can't help but feel that whites look a lot better at higher Brigthness settings, but seeing as this is my first time with a colorimeter I figure maybe it's just me not used to how things should be normally.

E: Hell could I just ignore the request to set it to 120 cd/m2 and just keep Brightness/Contrast at 50/50 and let the calibration proceed from there?

I recommend downloading the 10-day demo of Coloreyes Display Pro, which will let you customize whatever brightness you want, and calibrate colors to that. I don't think your version of the Spyder software supports setting different brightnesses. 120 cd/m2 is great for a dim room, but you probably want something more like 140 cd/m2+ if you're using it in a daylight-filled room and just making GBS threads around (not color matching prints or anything).

Also, brightness as 0 for 120 cd/m2 sounds low. Putting out a lower amount of light should be possible. For comparison's sake, Coloreyes is telling me 120 cd/m2 is equal to brightness 19 on my Dell u2311h.

Edit: Also, something cool about Coloreyes: it supports DDC, which means it can directly interface with the monitor and change brightness, contrast, and RGB settings as it's calibrating. My u2311h supports it, so I'd bet the u2410 would too.

VermiciousKnid84 fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Jan 22, 2011

WanderingKid
Feb 27, 2005

lives here...

Most displays are stupidly bright out of the box, which makes everything "pop" out at you at first. Then your eyeballs start to feel like they are being microwaved after a few hours.

You get used to the lower brightness quickly and it makes it easier to look at the screen all day.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

It was really just that whites, well, didn't look white. I re-did the calibration with the room lights on (thus making the ambient light output recommend 180 cd/m2 instead), and I'm much more satisfied with the result. Only had to set the brightness down to 25 this time.

Brace
May 29, 2010

by Ozmaugh


Are there any cheap, noticeably bigger monitors from my 22" samsung monitor?

Grog
Mar 31, 2007



mobby_6kl posted:

Also, is it normal for LED backlights to produce noticeable bleeding even at normal viewing angles? This is a 2 second exposure so it's not that bad, but the orange/blue colors in the lower corners are fairly noticeable even in real use:
It depends. Not all monitors get great quality control, so you could get one with relatively poor consistency across the panel and in the backlighting. Others are just defective or messed up somehow. I think the orange/pink to blue/green shift is a regularly-mentioned problem people get with the current Dell IPS displays, too. You may have just gotten a bad one with a few different problems at the same time.

Also, I think the Dell U series still uses CCFLs for backlighting. The Apple Cinema's one of the few currently available IPS monitors that uses LEDs, but more are supposed to come out this year. I'm still hoping for a good replacement for my current 24".

WanderingKid
Feb 27, 2005

lives here...

The orange/purple tint is the infamous IPS glow. You will get it in all IPS panels without an Advanced True Wide (A-TW) polarizer, which is all the affordable ones.

This NEC has it too.

Grog
Mar 31, 2007



I thought IPS glow was usually supposed to show up at angles outside of your straight-on viewing unless you're on something like a 30", but I guess not. As long as you're not looking at the screen from an angle, IPS glow shouldn't be much of an issue. On most PVA/MVA panels, you get some slightly annoying colour shift instead.

No matter what consumer monitor you pick, you're probably going to end up with at least some amount of backlight bleeding and panel uniformity issues. The higher-end NECs and some pricier monitors are supposed to have decent active correction to adjust for the uniformity problems, at least.

If the new consumer-level IPS monitors coming out don't improve on the current stuff, I think I'm just going to give up and get a Dell when they go on sale. Hell, I might do that anyway in the meantime. I'm still dealing with a BenQ FP241W, and the minimum brightness is somewhere around 220 cd/m^2. It might produce decent colours, but my eyes start to burn if I have to look at white for too long. It's a nice, clean, painfully piercing white, though.

sinep
Feb 2, 2007


I just my 24 inch monitor in. Holy poo poo this is insane! I thought the monitors we had at work were huge, but this thing just comes and takes a huge poo poo on them! So excited!

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Zizi
Jan 7, 2010


After reading the thread and going to see teh 27-nch ultrasharp in a store, I pulled the trigger on the U2311 the day before yesterday. It arrived yesterday (!) and I hooked it up to my laptop while I wait for the parts for my new desktop. This thing is amazing. I was concerned about the 8ms response time because I'm in game dev and play a LOT of games, but it's more than fine to my eyes. And the color quality is fantastic.

Do what a lot of others are suggesting, though, and turn the factory brightness WAY down, and contrast-up if you want. I've got mine set to something like 40 brightness and it cleans up a lot of the issues from the anti-glare coat.

Overall, super-happy with the purchase, and I'll be grabbing another for a second display pretty soon.

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