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Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug
That's a weird story. I saw AnandTech just announced today that the Bulldozer transistor count is actually 1.2 billion rather than 2 billion as earlier reported. Obviously this doesn't change the performance of the chip itself, but I guess the "2 billion transistors and this is all we get?" arguments do go down a little when they become "1.2 transistors and this is all we get?" instead.Or more to the point, turn into "that much die space on that process and..." since they're working on a significantly lower transistor density than has been earlier estimated.

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future ghost
Dec 5, 2005

:byetankie:
Gun Saliva

pixaal posted:

So people that like to do it themselves will build their own. I've actually wanted to build my own media box for awhile now, mostly because more control, and its something to spend time doing. But if anyone other then you is going to be using it its probably better to get a pre-made box because the end user is going to understand the UI a ton better then whatever you cobble together.

I just slapped Windows 7 on mine with utorrent and VNC, and the housemates figured it out pretty quick. I was planning to run XMBC on it or something but they ended up being fine with just the standard OS, so I haven't really touched it since other than for occasional maintenance. Generally it's still not a bad idea to drop a mediaPC UI on one though.

roadhead
Dec 25, 2001

Alereon posted:

Use CoreTemp for monitoring AMD CPU temperatures.

That also reports 0c when I am running Prime95 - obviously incorrect.

Probably a result of the "beta" status of this BIOS, the only one on this motherboard that supports this CPU.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast

Killer robot posted:

That's a weird story. I saw AnandTech just announced today that the Bulldozer transistor count is actually 1.2 billion rather than 2 billion as earlier reported. Obviously this doesn't change the performance of the chip itself, but I guess the "2 billion transistors and this is all we get?" arguments do go down a little when they become "1.2 transistors and this is all we get?" instead.Or more to the point, turn into "that much die space on that process and..." since they're working on a significantly lower transistor density than has been earlier estimated.

It makes it sound slightly less worse engineered. Still doesn't change the fact of the benchmarks/power & heat. I guess they're trying any kind of damage control right now.

roadhead
Dec 25, 2001

HalloKitty posted:

It makes it sound slightly less worse engineered. Still doesn't change the fact of the benchmarks/power & heat. I guess they're trying any kind of damage control right now.

Makes you think the recent house-clearing let go a lot of pure marketing people and maybe a real engineer took their place? How else do you officially release a number that is nearly twice the actual transistor count?!?

OldPueblo
May 2, 2007

Likes to argue. Wins arguments with ignorant people. Not usually against educated people, just ignorant posters. Bing it.
They probably thought announcing a higher transistor count would sound awesome. "We have five trillion transistors, overclock every one!"

Devian666
Aug 19, 2008

Take some advice Chris.

Fun Shoe
If they're running like most corporations they've probably fired all the engineers and replaced them with a marketing team. I can see a marketing team claiming that a 2 billion transistor cpu only has 1.2 billion if it changes perception.

We'll get a better idea of what they've done in the next year.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed
College Slice

Devian666 posted:

If they're running like most corporations they've probably fired all the engineers and replaced them with a marketing team. I can see a marketing team claiming that a 2 billion transistor cpu only has 1.2 billion if it changes perception.

We'll get a better idea of what they've done in the next year.
Actually they fired their marketing team and replaced them with engineers which is why we're finally getting correct information :)

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001

What did AMD need all those marketing folks for? I only ever saw adds for them on hardware sites and as part of game intros. And those banners looked like something a 14 year old with a pirated copy of PS could come up with

Foma
Oct 1, 2004
Hello, My name is Lip Synch. Right now, I'm making a post that is anti-bush or something Micheal Moore would be proud of because I and the rest of my team lefty friends (koba1t included) need something to circle jerk to.

WhyteRyce posted:

What did AMD need all those marketing folks for? I only ever saw adds for them on hardware sites and as part of game intros. And those banners looked like something a 14 year old with a pirated copy of PS could come up with

It looks like they built some "relationships" with Webpages

Daeno
May 28, 2007

Found you have to go alone
Supposed 7000 series pricing.

Well...on 2 cards at least.

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003

Star War Sex Parrot posted:

What an article title from Ars:

AMD's Bulldozer server benchmarks are here, and they're a catastrophe
The real takeaway is that once the Sandbridge stuff hits Xeon it's pretty much game over.

Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down

Daeno posted:

Supposed 7000 series pricing.

Well...on 2 cards at least.

If these don't offer nVidia-like single-GPU performance, that nVidia-like pricing is going to be kind of a downer for sales. Especially on the heels of some embarrassing driver issues that have left a surprising number of consumers with the ill-informed perspective that AMD has driver issues while nVidia does not.

Alereon
Feb 6, 2004

Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed
College Slice

evil_bunnY posted:

The real takeaway is that once the Sandbridge stuff hits Xeon it's pretty much game over.
Intel knows this, and as a result there won't be any Sandy Bridge-EX Xeons competing for the high-end because Westmere-EX is already more than adequate.

Agreed posted:

If these don't offer nVidia-like single-GPU performance, that nVidia-like pricing is going to be kind of a downer for sales. Especially on the heels of some embarrassing driver issues that have left a surprising number of consumers with the ill-informed perspective that AMD has driver issues while nVidia does not.
It's an entirely new architecture, so it's possible that performance really is that amazing. However, I'm more excited about the 7800-series, which should be basically die-shrunk 6900-series GPUs.

Longinus00
Dec 29, 2005
Ur-Quan

Daeno posted:

Supposed 7000 series pricing.

Well...on 2 cards at least.

I wonder how much of this is due to the terrible yields TSMC is giving them vs. abandoning the whole chip philosophy they started with the 4800 series.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

Daeno posted:

Supposed 7000 series pricing.

Well...on 2 cards at least.
Ooof. Maybe I won't be getting Southern Islands at launch.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-cpu-apu-athlon-phenom-Llano-Bulldozer,14173.html

quote:

According to a post over at Nordic Hardware, only one CPU of the lineup is still shipping. We were not able to confirm the report, which is based on an unknown information source, but we do know that there are still plenty of Athlon II and Phenom II processors in the channel and we hear that vendorshave sufficient supply for the Christmas season.

Nordic Hardware states that no more Athlons and Phenoms are sent into the market, with the exception of the 3.0 GHz Phenom II X4 960T.

If the report is accurate, the transition of GlobalFoundries' Fab 1 in Dresden may the reason that shipments of the Phenom II and Athlon II have been stopped. It is obvious that AMD is moving toward higher margin products such as Llano, which are selling like hotcakes right now.

Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down

So they are definitely going the Llano route. Well, what the hell else is available, good on 'em I guess. It sucks that we're already seeing the effects of diminished competition on Intel's activity - last-gen server parts still stomping through Bulldozer in the same thermal/power envelopes, so why bother bringing Sandy Bridge to servers? Because I'd like that, please, is why, not that it matters when there's no reason to that makes them more money.

AMD withdrawing from the desktop market like this is loving nuts. I would like to see more information, obviously, to corroborate the journalistic equivalent of "some dude," but it's startlingly feasible.

Ragingsheep
Nov 7, 2009
Is Llano really that popular? I tried pricing a Llano system a month or two back and I was really struggling to see any advantage it has over a i3 setup with a dedicated video card.

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.
It's the bee's knees for low-priced laptops. It's really driven down the price of Intel stuff to compete with it, too.

Desktops? Eh.

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001

I bought one for my HTPC and I wish I just stuck with my old C2D/Ion setup

syzygy86
Feb 1, 2008

WhyteRyce posted:

I bought one for my HTPC and I wish I just stuck with my old C2D/Ion setup

Really? I went with a E-350 HTPC and couldn't be happier. Nice small, low power, silent system and more than enough performance for 1080p content. I debated going Llano, but the E-350 is more than good enough.

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001

Oops, sorry I should say I have a E-350. It's not where near as rock solid as the other setup was. I've got some weird HDMI issue where occasionally the resolution looks like it gets set really low (i.e. my WMC looks like it's running 1024x768 stretched to fit my screen), which goes away if I minimize and re-maximize. Which is super-annoying in a HTPC setup that you want to control only with a remote. If I elect to connect directly to my TV instead of through my receiver, then my screen will turn black randomly while idle. WMC will also crash if I have too many files in a video directory. It also crashes when it tries to render the thumbnail for certain MKVs. Continually waiting around for Silverlight 5 so I can do HD Netflix is also fun. And AMD removed the overscan correction tool in a couple of their driver releases.

WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Dec 6, 2011

movax
Aug 30, 2008

WhyteRyce posted:

Oops, sorry I should say I have a E-350. It's not where near as rock solid as the other setup was. I've got some weird HDMI issue where occasionally the resolution looks like it gets set really low (i.e. my WMC looks like it's running 1024x768 stretched to fit my screen), which goes away if I minimize and re-maximize. Which is super-annoying in a HTPC setup that you want to control only with a remote. If I elect to connect directly to my TV instead of through my receiver, then my screen will turn black randomly while idle. WMC will also crash if I have too many files in a video directory. It also crashes when it tries to render the thumbnail for certain MKVs. Continually waiting around for Silverlight 5 so I can do HD Netflix is also fun. And AMD removed the overscan correction tool in a couple of their driver releases.

Not to derail too much, but this is why I left HTPCs behind. I know a lot of people have them running successfully and love them to death, but I just had so much trouble with them I went back to dedicated set-top media boxes. Sacrifice in broader software compatibility, but much less painful. It didn't help that my target display was connected via 1080i component, which means a fun battle against overscan.

That said, maybe some AMD hardware will be finding its way into aforementioned boxes, but they've got stiff competition from the existing players in the field.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E

movax posted:

Not to derail too much, but this is why I left HTPCs behind. I know a lot of people have them running successfully and love them to death, but I just had so much trouble with them I went back to dedicated set-top media boxes. Sacrifice in broader software compatibility, but much less painful. It didn't help that my target display was connected via 1080i component, which means a fun battle against overscan.

That said, maybe some AMD hardware will be finding its way into aforementioned boxes, but they've got stiff competition from the existing players in the field.

I really don't get the point of HTPCs with the new Sigma based set top boxes unless you want a full web experience or game on it. For video, its much easier to setup and the output quality is typically better.

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.
I do a full HTPC because I actually don't have a huge transcoded media archive. I spend most of my storage on documents and media I create and backups of my PCs, and all my video stuff is live/recorded cable TV, streaming from YouTube and Hulu, and physical disks. It would actually be more of a pain in the rear end to convert everything over to STB-playable stuff than just deal with the four different player softwares and web browser - all of which work great, they just aren't centralized. And I'd need more, expensive storage to boot.

It's an E350 mini-ITX box, and I love it.

movax
Aug 30, 2008

Factory Factory posted:

I do a full HTPC because I actually don't have a huge transcoded media archive. I spend most of my storage on documents and media I create and backups of my PCs, and all my video stuff is live/recorded cable TV, streaming from YouTube and Hulu, and physical disks. It would actually be more of a pain in the rear end to convert everything over to STB-playable stuff than just deal with the four different player softwares and web browser - all of which work great, they just aren't centralized. And I'd need more, expensive storage to boot.

It's an E350 mini-ITX box, and I love it.

Yep, I'm the opposite, with a huge NAS (~15T) full of media that the Sigma can playback. Occasionally run into issues with compressed headers because my NMT is an older generation, but nothing that can't be overcome with a little work.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E

Factory Factory posted:

It would actually be more of a pain in the rear end to convert everything over to STB-playable stuff...

I got my STB because it supported all the formats I had in my library without converting. Which formats are you thinking of that STBs don't support?

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.
Blu-Rays, DVDs, YouTube, Hulu, and a CableCard TV tuner with DVR functionality in one device. v:shobon:v

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001

movax posted:

Not to derail too much, but this is why I left HTPCs behind. I know a lot of people have them running successfully and love them to death, but I just had so much trouble with them I went back to dedicated set-top media boxes. Sacrifice in broader software compatibility, but much less painful. It didn't help that my target display was connected via 1080i component, which means a fun battle against overscan.

That said, maybe some AMD hardware will be finding its way into aforementioned boxes, but they've got stiff competition from the existing players in the field.

I really contemplated switching to a PS3 or something like a Boxee, but I planned on getting a network CableCard tuner and that thing was too enticing.

Don't get me wrong, I really like my current HTPC. Having an all-in-one device for my movies, Cable TV, and Blu-Ray is loving awesome. When my HTPC is working, it's loving amazing. It's just that, when it doesn't work it's extremely aggravating. I'm assuming what I'm hitting is just stupid AMD driver/software related issues, that didn't effect my old ION platform.

The real annoying thing with this is that AMD and MS just tend to point figures at each other in situations like this and you won't ever get a real resolution. The RTC time drift is really annoying too. I've never had a platform which has this much drift in this short amount of time, which really screws with my DVR programming if I let it get out of hand. I setup a Windows task to sync it every hour, but I guess it's not working since I still drift off a over a minute within a week.

I guess that's why I'm so annoyed at my e-350 board. So many small annoying issues

WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Dec 6, 2011

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll
Nap Ghost
I've been disappointed with an E-350 for my HTPC needs though because the CPU is just too anemic for snappy, reliable UI response times, especially if running other services in the background. That is, I couldn't really differentiate it from my ION-based machine I got rid of prior to that. The HP Microserver with nVidia GPU that's since replaced it is perceptibly on-par with the microATX monstrosity HTPC that I built last year and retired quickly. Coincidentally, there's an AMD CPU in this guy as well. The form factor of the Microserver was more attractive to me than dealing with mini ITX minimization scaling issues as well, so even if AMD made an APU with the Athlon and a respectable GPU I'd be opting for the Microserver.

I think Intel has a slight upper hand even in the lower end segments mostly because the i3 is so drat power efficient you shouldn't even need to bother with GPU decoding. Sure, an i3 has an entry pricepoint of $130 + motherboard v. $130 for an E-350, but an i3 has better motherboard options than any Llano CPU will ever get, which can be a slight factor for hobbyist builders over OEMs.

movax posted:

Why would you even bother dealing with x86 at that price? Licensing a BIOS, trying to minimize power consumption, etc...painful.
Mostly only because your customers are wanting support for formats that are basically only do-able with straight up software decoders (people get so huffy if your hardware doesn't support some crazy number of b-frames and pyramidal encoding and poo poo in your h.264 or VC-1... and TruHD64PenisMightier audio encoding).

There's also the sheer laziness factor by your customers not wanting to deal with the hardware-supported formats better as mentioned above. Me, I'm really pissed off at having to transcode stuff because most of what I have is so low quality to begin with I can't accept transcoding for convenience.

But basically it all boils down to the age-old problem of "software defines your hardware requirements." That's why we always ask people buying hardware regardless of if they're your grandma or a Fortune 500 customer wtf they want to run, right?

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001

The thing that really annoyed me with the e-350 when I was shopping around, most of the boards came with some lovely, tiny, noisy fan on it. Very little in the way of true silent cooling options, except for an ASUS board that had a giant passive heatsink on it. But a bunch of reviews on Newegg claimed it still overheated.

Factory Factory
Mar 19, 2010

This is what
Arcane Velocity was like.
For what it's worth, the fan on my ASRock E350 board may be tiny and lovely, but it's not loud.

movax
Aug 30, 2008

necrobobsledder posted:

There's also the sheer laziness factor by your customers not wanting to deal with the hardware-supported formats better as mentioned above. Me, I'm really pissed off at having to transcode stuff because most of what I have is so low quality to begin with I can't accept transcoding for convenience.

But basically it all boils down to the age-old problem of "software defines your hardware requirements." That's why we always ask people buying hardware regardless of if they're your grandma or a Fortune 500 customer wtf they want to run, right?

You hit the issue on the head exactly. Right now, your best bet for playing any given media format is generally a ffmpeg-derived/based-on player solution on your PC. You're at the mercy of the firmware maintainers/developers for set-top boxes and however long they plan on continuing to support their box, and what formats they choose to implement.

Maybe someone will put out an AMD APU/similar-based solution running x86 Android or similar to make a decent turn-key HTPC, who knows? I've mostly played with TI DaVinci hardware, and it's quite powerful, but the work involved in getting software decoders to leverage the hardware makes me want eat a gun most of the time. :(

OldPueblo
May 2, 2007

Likes to argue. Wins arguments with ignorant people. Not usually against educated people, just ignorant posters. Bing it.
I picked up this guy last week and it's pretty drat cool (E-350).

http://www.the-other-view.com/zotac-ad02.html

I don't know what that guy is talking about in the comments, it's dead silent for me. It's hard to beat for only $319 ($250 sans RAM/HDD, you provide your own). Using it with an external cablecard. Still tweaking it but so far it's keeping up with two tuners recording HD channels.

OldPueblo fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Dec 6, 2011

Coredump
Dec 1, 2002

Ha ha look how wrong Engadget gets it.

Engadget.com posted:

AMD shaves 800 million transistors from Bulldozer chip, swears nothing's wrong

By Chris Barylick posted Dec 6th 2011 1:21AM
When a company cuts 40 percent of its transistors from an upcoming processor, one question comes to mind: why? According to ExtremeTech, AMD issued an update stating that its Bulldozer eight core / four module CPU would feature 1.2 billion transistors, as opposed to the previously stated two billion transistors. The reduction occurred despite the fact that the die size remains unchanged at 315 square millimeters -- putting it on par with AMD's lesser Llano chip -- and depriving the chip of valuable horsepower before I/O, an integrated memory controller or HyperTransport are added. When approached for comment, company representatives stated they were simply correcting a mistake regarding the chip's actual specifications. Before you bemoan the fate of the Bulldozer chip, remember that the drummer from Def Leppard has had a terrific musical career with only one arm, so what's the loss of several hundred million transistors to AMD's latest?

Coredump fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Dec 6, 2011

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
So is BD AMDs Netburst? Or is it better/worse than that analogy?

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast

Coredump posted:

Ha ha look how wrong Engadget gets it.

But they say the correct thing right there, that the company was just correcting a mistake in handed out specs.

It's not news item worthy on a site like Engadget..

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

Shaocaholica posted:

So is BD AMDs Netburst? Or is it better/worse than that analogy?

More like their Pentium Pro. Huge die size, slower on existing code but faster on code optimized for it and geared more towards future code.

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future ghost
Dec 5, 2005

:byetankie:
Gun Saliva

Shaocaholica posted:

So is BD AMDs Netburst? Or is it better/worse than that analogy?
In a way, yes it is. However AMD doesn't have Intel's industry sway or mountains of cash to fall back on, so BD's far more disastrous for them than Netburst was for Intel.

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