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I knew AMD would drop the ball somewhere with this CPU. Both good and sad that I have been proven right.
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May 31, 2011 02:46
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:x86 is pretty IPC limited, IIRC the Athlon had 3 decoders and only averaged around 1.5 IPC thorough put. 4 is already overkill, adding a 5th would be a waste. Resources would probably be better spent on a bigger/faster cache or branch prediction or improving clockspeed. I don't believe memory bandwidth is an issue right now either, almost nothing seems to be limited by it for desktop workloads. For desktop everything is cpu limited. There are specific scientific or engineering applications where memory bandwidth is a limiting factor, even then it only appeared when I started using Xeon 5520's. The thing is with the new architecture is that it's modular. When you add a decoder you're adding the ALUs and FPU in the module as well. In theory you could process more assuming you don't have other bottlenecks appearing and making it ineffective.
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May 31, 2011 02:58
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I think they should release it anyway if it's 20%+ better than their current offerings.
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May 31, 2011 06:04
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Mods, please rename it to "Bulldozer - Duke Nukem Forever is coming out before this chip", or if that is too long, abbr. Duke Nukem Forever to DNF. Thanks. Sinestro fucked around with this message at 15:26 on May 31, 2011 |
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May 31, 2011 08:18
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I won't be upgrading for the next year or so, but I was hoping to see BD pull out some high clocks and amazing performance to set the bar higher, so I'm kinda disappointed about this delay.
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May 31, 2011 09:12
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Updated the OP.
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May 31, 2011 15:44
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You Am I posted:I knew AMD would drop the ball somewhere with this CPU. Both good and sad that I have been proven right.
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May 31, 2011 16:08
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Xbitlabs is reporting their sources as saying that Bulldozer is currently topping out at 2.5Ghz before Turbo, which certainly explains why they couldn't launch it. Even desktop Sandy Bridge has nearly 1Ghz over that, and Sandy Bridge-E will probably have a similar lead, and that's with 8 cores.
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May 31, 2011 18:53
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So if a new stepping respin fixes the clock issues, could there be anything architecturally wrong with the chip?
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Jun 1, 2011 03:02
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Sinestro posted:Mods, please rename it to "Bulldozer - Duke Nukem Forever is coming out before this chip", or if that is too long, abbr. Duke Nukem Forever to DNF.
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Jun 1, 2011 03:05
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dud root posted:So if a new stepping respin fixes the clock issues, could there be anything architecturally wrong with the chip? It all looks good in theory but it's hard to know what they're actually fixing. Is it a process issue, have they found actual bugs in the B0 and B1 steppings, or do they need to tweak the chip layout so that it works at higher clock speeds. Given they're going to stepping B2 instead of redesigning the chip from scratch it seems like there isn't a major architectural issue.
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Jun 1, 2011 03:09
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I hope AMD can pull it off... not saying this as a fanboy, all my stuff is intel. Just without competition, I know intel will gouge. Hell, I used to work for them.
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Jun 1, 2011 03:21
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Anandtech has some more AMD updates from Computex, one is that in 2012 they intend to launch the Trinity APU series to replace Llano, this will combine Bulldozer modules with a Radeon graphics core. Another Bulldozer tidbit from Anandtech is that they are reporting that B1 stepping CPUs are clocking at 3.8Ghz nominal, which contradicts earlier claims that they were only able to achieve 2.5Ghz nominal. This could mean that the clockspeed issue stories were wrong and the problems were just actual performance, or it could be that the issue is what clocks they can hit within their TDP targets. The processor renumbering really points to the problem being clockspeed-related somehow, but it's always possible that story was just wrong. AMD has also officially announced their Z-series "Desna" APUs for tablets. The AMD Z-01 is basically an Ontario C-50 chip that has been binned for lower power consumption, coming in at 5.9W versus 9W on the C-50. It's a 1Ghz dual-core CPU with a 280Mhz Radeon HD 6250 GPU.
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Jun 1, 2011 06:09
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:Resources would probably be better spent on a bigger/faster cache or branch prediction or improving clockspeed. Devian666 posted:For desktop everything is cpu limited. Devian666 posted:Given they're going to stepping B2 instead of redesigning the chip from scratch it seems like there isn't a major architectural issue. quote:Some sources are describing the ‘shipping’ step as B3, others as C0. C0 would seem to fit the performance bump problem model, and B3 a bug fix. With the backdrop of sandbagging though, you can’t say for sure no matter what is printed on the chip. Star War Sex Parrot posted:Only because I love my SH/SC posters.
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Jun 1, 2011 20:46
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AMD has announced the E-450 APU, it's basically the E-350 with slightly bumped CPU and GPU clockspeeds, graphics turbo support, and support for DDR3-1600 memory (instead of DDR3-1333). This should result in significant performance boosts for graphics-bound games, though unfortunately most games are CPU-bound on Zacate, and they apparently can't bump CPU clocks meaningfully without a die shrink.
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Jun 1, 2011 21:32
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JawnV6 posted:I'm waiting on the network more often than the CPU. I think the Android emulator's one of the few cpu-bound tasks I still have. Thanks for the other comments as they help shed some light on what might be going on at AMD. For the desktop loads I was referring to typical home desktop loads (which for me means gaming as other tasks don't use much cpu). My work workloads are very memory intensive and for future upgrades I want faster memory. If I shifted the workload to multiple computers it would easily saturate network bandwidth. When cpus were a lot slower neither network or memory bandwidth was a problem for the stuff that I do. Devian666 fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Jun 2, 2011 |
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Jun 1, 2011 23:11
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JawnV6 posted:No. Branch prediction is such a dead topic and is never the answer. In my later classes where we had to cook up architectural features, we were explicitly discouraged from doing anything with branch prediction. When you're above 95-97% on most workloads.. who cares? Devian666 posted:For the desktop loads I was referring to typical home desktop loads (which for me means gaming as other tasks don't use much cpu). So your previous post make a lot of sense for HPC or something else perhaps even more niche, but not for common desktop stuff. AMD confirms Sept. date for BD release. Lets hope they actually stick to it this time. PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Jun 2, 2011 |
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Jun 2, 2011 01:24
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:The way it was explained to me was that if the remaining 3-5% come to dominate 50-90% of your pipeline stalls/inactivity (note: that is a number I'm throwing out there, the exact amount will vary from one design to the next, I have no idea what it is for current chips from Intel or AMD much less older ones) then its worth it to still throw resources at it. PC LOAD LETTER posted:IIRC AMD said adding a 3rd pipeline to the original K7 added around 5% more performance in general and adding more would get you even less, so more pipelines was getting some very diminishing returns years ago. I know you're trying to say the ISA has some fundamental limit on how many instructions to decode in a cycle. I just don't buy that without better evidence.
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Jun 2, 2011 18:01
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So is there a price range on how much these new Bulldozer CPUs will cost? And the new motherboards?
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Jun 5, 2011 06:27
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E2M2 posted:So is there a price range on how much these new Bulldozer CPUs will cost? And the new motherboards? We won't know.
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Jun 5, 2011 07:26
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E2M2 posted:So is there a price range on how much these new Bulldozer CPUs will cost? And the new motherboards? Alereon fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Jun 5, 2011 |
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Jun 5, 2011 07:35
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Alereon posted:On the plus side, we know that Intel's next-generation Ivy Bridge CPUs have been pushed back from Q1 2012 to Q2, meaning AMD is going to have a generous period of graphics dominance with Llano and Brazos. This isn't a plus side at all. I want Bulldozer to come out tomorrow, and Ivy Bridge to come out next week, damnit. Whose side are you on?
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Jun 5, 2011 14:23
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It's a plus for AMD if they're trying to maintain profitability 
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Jun 5, 2011 17:39
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Some AM3+ motherboards are in stock at Newegg!
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Jun 6, 2011 10:05
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Llano previews are out, I'm thinking of giving it its own thread. Anandtech Desktop Preview, Anandtech Notebook Preview. Notebook: Absolutely unbeatable for inexpensive gaming performance, with Sandy Bridge-like excellent general usage battery life. The CPU performance is poor, but you're clearly buying a Llano notebook for the graphics. The CPU performance does hold back the GPU in CPU-heavy games like StarCraft 2, but not by enough that the GPU still doesn't give it a commanding lead. The new Hybrid Crossfire isn't bad (when it works), though it depends on how cheaply they can throw low-end GPUs into laptops (low-end AMD mobile GPUs seem pretty drat cheap). No graphics turbo  Desktop: Disappointing. The GPU is more hamstrung by sharing memory bandwidth with the CPU than hoped, though it still has a compelling performance advantage. The CPU is showing its age, easily trounced by Sandy Bridge Core i3s. It still obviously wins at gaming without a dedicated graphics card thanks to 50-100% faster graphics performance, but I'm holding out for final reviews and to find out how overclockable it is.
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Jun 14, 2011 05:17
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Alereon posted:Llano previews are out, I'm thinking of giving it its own thread. Anandtech Desktop Preview, Anandtech Notebook Preview. Trouble for AMD is SB + GT540M is better than mobile Llano in every aspect and the former isn't exactly expensive to boot either.
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Jun 14, 2011 10:34
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freeforumuser posted:Trouble for AMD is SB + GT540M is better than mobile Llano in every aspect and the former isn't exactly expensive to boot either.
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Jun 14, 2011 19:08
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Alereon posted:One thing we don't have yet are gaming battery life benchmarks, which is one area we can expect Llano to excel. Anandtech posted:Rounding out the battery life discussion, we also tested battery life while looping 3DMark06 at native resolution (1366x768). This represents a reasonable 3D gaming scenario, and Llano still managed a reasonable 161 minutes. Considering graphics performance is a healthy step up from what Intel’s HD 3000 offers and that AMD manages double the battery life under gaming situations compared to the K53E, mobile gaming is clearly a win. 58Wh battery.. Of course, what retail machines will do will no doubt vary
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Jun 14, 2011 19:53
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Fudzilla has a link on a Llano laptop for less than 600 Euros which suggests to me that Llano based laptops will be priced quite a bit lower than most any SB+discrete GPU alternatives which tend to go for over $700.
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Jun 14, 2011 20:17
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Alereon posted:Keep in mind that Anandtech was reviewing a 35W low-power processor, and the laptop with a GT 540M was using a 45W quad-core i7 2630QM. The GPU itself is competitive enough that it instantly obsoletes everything below the GT 555M/GTX 560M, which is amazing when you consider that we're talking about integrated graphics and not having to pay for a videocard at all. I don't think AMD or its OEMs are stupid enough to price Llano notebooks similarly to Sandy Bridge notebooks with capable dGPUs. One thing we don't have yet are gaming battery life benchmarks, which is one area we can expect Llano to excel. It's already winning over dGPU-equipped Sandy Bridge in the Internet and video playback tests, once the dGPU kicks on you'd expect battery life for the GT 540M laptop to fall in a hole. For the love of God put this in a Thinkpad Model T, please please please 
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Jun 15, 2011 00:27
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Sorry for the many title changes, but could a mod please rename this to "AMD's Next Generation CPUs: Now departing Llano station, next stop Bulldozer."
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Jun 15, 2011 13:12
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Hardocp posted their review. Gave it the gold award since they can play games like Dirt 3 and Dragon Age II at native resolution with medium to high settings (and AA, 8xAA in Dirt 3s case). Sounds like AMD did well.
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Jun 15, 2011 21:25
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Seems like AMD left Bapco because Bulldozer doesn't perform well. The article goes into why and how AMD did a 180 on Sysmark, and the changes in corporate culture that accompanied it. quote:Our source claims AMD had a solid position in BAPCo and that BAPCo's board accepted vast majority of suggestions for SYSmark and MobileMark benchmarks to the tune of 75-83%. http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2011/6/24/amd-insiders-speak-out-bapco-exit-is-an-excuse-for-poor-bulldozer-performance.aspx quote:A shift occurred and all engineers were left was not making a discussion that would go along the lines of "ok, how do we make our architecture better?", "how do we work to regain performance leadership?". According to one of our highly positioned sources, the culture switched to "how do we discredit benchmarks and skew the numbers?" quote:"Bulldozer is going to disappoint people because we did not get the resources to build a great CPU, and it's not that we needed billions of dollars to make it a leader. We needed investment in people, tools and technology." quote:When asked about core performance, surprising information was that a Bulldozer core versus the existing cores in Llano will result in minimal improvements overall. Our sources went on to say that the launch of Llano clearly shows what is the current and future strategy - downplay CPU performance every chance you get. Everything has to revolve around the GPU. Edit: some more quotes Riso fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Jun 24, 2011 |
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Jun 24, 2011 16:58
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Looks like they've thrown Llano in some Lenovo Ideapads, but not much else. 
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Jun 24, 2011 17:06
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That's horrible loving news. I haven't built an AMD system in years and years but they're the only balancing factor keeping the arms race going for consumers. Who else is even remotely positioned to offer an alternative to Intel? What's the future of AMD (and ATI) if they lose the CPU race this many generations in a row?
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Jun 24, 2011 17:25
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Maybe nVidia will rethink declining to design an x86 CPU? Or maybe AMD will take this as a good prompt to go on a hiring binge and build something new in a relatively short time. Hell, maybe even call back to the team featured in The Soul of a New Machine and grab a whole bunch of novice graduates to... well, no. AMD has their GPUs and a sufficient CPU for budget uses. This isn't make-or-break for them.
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Jun 24, 2011 17:38
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Agreed posted:That's horrible loving news. I haven't built an AMD system in years and years but they're the only balancing factor keeping the arms race going for consumers. Who else is even remotely positioned to offer an alternative to Intel? What's the future of AMD (and ATI) if they lose the CPU race this many generations in a row? While it's likely is correct that it's going to disappoint, you need to take Theo Valich articles with a grain of salt. He's been dead wrong several times in the past.
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Jun 24, 2011 17:44
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Not make or break, but they acknowledge their market share is pretty crap for anything serious. It seems like the only segments propping them up are people who see lower price and don't care if it's Intel or AMD (we're talking Best Buy shoppers, here) and enthusiasts on a budget who will accept the slower processor in order to save money. It's looking more and more like K6 vs Pentium, I just hate to see AMD slip into that slump again. They kicked serious rear end with the Athlon XP and first-gen 64-bit chips. Man. Lame.Ryokurin posted:While it's likely is correct that it's going to disappoint, you need to take Theo Valich articles with a grain of salt. He's been dead wrong several times in the past. I'll keep that in mind.
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Jun 24, 2011 17:46
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Let's be honest though, the BAPCo thing probably is because their CPUs aren't performing all that well, and they think the suite didn't emphasise GPU performance enough..
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Jun 24, 2011 17:54
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HalloKitty posted:Let's be honest though, the BAPCo thing probably is because their CPUs aren't performing all that well, and they think the suite didn't emphasise GPU performance enough..
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Jun 24, 2011 20:31
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