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Tacky-Ass Rococco
Sep 6, 2010

by R. Guyovich


Sometimes erroneously, too. Bad corners tell their fighters that they're winning, and by "playing it safe" they let close fights slip away. At worst I think letting everyone have more information would turn out a wash, though maybe I'm wrong.

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red19fire
May 26, 2010



Jack of Hearts posted:

By "open scoring" I just mean scores being shown at the end of rounds instead of the end of the fight. It seems like such a minor improvement, but for some reason I find it very satisfying not to have to guess where the fight stands at the end of round two or whatever.

Plus we might see better performances if fighters know for a fact that they're behind and that they need to go for a dominant showing as the fight wears on.

This would have made the Phan/Garcia fight much better. Fans and Rogan especially would have an addition 10 minutes to boo and openly mock the judges.

Then again, perhaps crowd feedback on the scoring system would affect the judges? Pandering to the vulgar mob?

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


The AC's would never go for it because it would paint a target on any official who scored against the public sentiment.

Tacky-Ass Rococco
Sep 6, 2010

by R. Guyovich


Goddamn polite, non-loutish Japanese fans! How come they get to have nice things and we don't?

TomWaitsForNoMan
May 28, 2003

By Any Means Necessary


Who is Thonglor? What's all the Thonglor fandom about?

Droopy Goines
Aug 2, 2003

Presented in DTS ES 6.1 where available.

TomWaitsForNoMan posted:

Who is Thonglor? What's all the Thonglor fandom about?

He's the pimp/leader of a california based male prostitution ring.

Atlas Hugged
Mar 12, 2007


Put your arms around me,
fiddly digits, itchy britches
I love you all


He's the eccentric Muay Thai coach of Team Alpha Male (Uriah Faber's shortman punchman team). He does crazy poo poo like catching possums and then posts videos of it on youtube.

Thermos H Christ
Sep 6, 2007

WINNINGEST BEVO


TomWaitsForNoMan posted:

Who is Thonglor? What's all the Thonglor fandom about?

Master Thonglor is the flamboyant Muay Thai coach for Team Alpha Male, a fight team composed entirely of tiny So-Cal bros. In his spare time he enjoys gambling and messing with possums. His most prominent public appearance was when he casually carried the head tiny bro, Urijah Faber, to his stool in between rounds of the Aldo fight because Faber had been crippled by leg kicks. Leg kicks and defending them are a very fundamental part of Muay Thai, so this incident does not reflect particularly well on his coaching ability.

This is Master Thonglor:

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005


Jack of Hearts posted:

Goddamn polite, non-loutish Japanese fans! How come they get to have nice things and we don't?

Correct, Japanese judges never bowed to pressure from the crowd when scoring for the guy that the promotion/fans obviously wanted to win.

mobn
May 23, 2005

by Ozmaugh


I think a good thing would be to encourage 10-10 scoring, but to help allay the possibility of more draws (which is doubtlessly why the commission discourages 10-10 scores) they could add one or two extension rounds in the case of a draw.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

red19fire posted:

Then again, perhaps crowd feedback on the scoring system would affect the judges? Pandering to the vulgar mob?

Thumbs up he lives thumbs down sideways, he dies. Text your vote to 1-800-UFC8 standard texting charges apply, not valid in the state of NY.

Gomi Pile
Jan 19, 2011

by Ozmaugh


mobn posted:

I think a good thing would be to encourage 10-10 scoring, but to help allay the possibility of more draws (which is doubtlessly why the commission discourages 10-10 scores) they could add one or two extension rounds in the case of a draw.

why not just have a draw when there's a draw.

red19fire
May 26, 2010



mobn posted:

I think a good thing would be to encourage 10-10 scoring, but to help allay the possibility of more draws (which is doubtlessly why the commission discourages 10-10 scores) they could add one or two extension rounds in the case of a draw.

Extension rounds must use the P-something Panda aggression-only judging criteria: first man to cease winging haymakers loses. In the event of another draw, judges will refer to "just look at his face" criteria.

Thermos H Christ
Sep 6, 2007

WINNINGEST BEVO


iirc the Panda Method also placed a lot of weight on which fighter seemed the angriest

fawker
Feb 1, 2008

ARMBAR!

Thermos H Christ posted:

iirc the Panda Method also placed a lot of weight on which fighter seemed the angriest

Utilizing the Panda Method of judging, James Thompson would have soundly beaten Aleks

A Pale Horse
Jul 29, 2007



Gomi Pile posted:

why not just have a draw when there's a draw.

Because that's the most unsatisfying ending to a fight imaginable short of a No Contest (and even those can be more satisfying if they involve ball smashing of one manner or another). Didn't even the NHL do away with ties some while back?

I like the idea of extension rounds though. Maybe up to 2 3 minute extensions if necessary. Of course it will never happen and judging will continue to be atrocious, but a man can dream.

mobn
May 23, 2005

by Ozmaugh


Gomi Pile posted:

why not just have a draw when there's a draw.

because the commissions hate draws and it is largely the reason we cant have 10-10 rounds in close fights that deserve them

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005


10-8 rounds are just as likely to produce a draw as 10-10 rounds.

mobn
May 23, 2005

by Ozmaugh


fatherdog posted:

10-8 rounds are just as likely to produce a draw as 10-10 rounds.

And we see less of those than we probably should as well.

Tacky-Ass Rococco
Sep 6, 2010

by R. Guyovich


fatherdog posted:

Correct, Japanese judges never bowed to pressure from the crowd when scoring for the guy that the promotion/fans obviously wanted to win.

Yeah, maybe my meaning was unclear, but why can't we have nice things? What's your take on why open scoring hasn't caught on? I really like it, do most people just not care?

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005


Jack of Hearts posted:

most people just not care

Triticum Guzzler
Jun 16, 2002


if it takes any effort on the part of a sanctioning body it will never happen, this goes for any change

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Giovanni Qobras posted:

if it takes any effort on the part of a sanctioning body it will never happen, this goes for any change

They'll resist change even if they don't have to do poo poo. There was a UFC where either the UFC or one of their sponsors installed a shitload of monitors ringside for the judges to use. Keith Kizer personally disconnected them all.

mobn
May 23, 2005

by Ozmaugh


keith kizer is like the sporting equivalent of a radical conservative

niethan
Nov 22, 2005

Don't be scared, homie!


fatherdog posted:

10-8 rounds are just as likely to produce a draw as 10-10 rounds.
If you got two fighters and one dominates the other in a round and gets a 10-8 then it's improbable that the other gets(or previewsly got) the two others 9-10. On the other hand 10-10 is an indication that the fighters are somewhat evenly matched and a 10-9 and a 9-10 round are plausible.

Lone Goat
Apr 16, 2003

When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.






niethan posted:

If you got two fighters and one dominates the other in a round and gets a 10-8 then it's improbable that the other gets(or previewsly got) the two others 9-10.

I know that watching fights is passe, but this is exactly what happened in Edgar/Maynard 2, with an extra 10-9/9-10 each.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Sanchez/Guida could have also gone that way, but judges are bad.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


1st AD posted:

Sanchez/Guida could have also gone that way, but judges are bad.

Diego did way more damage from the bottom. He won at least two rounds in that fight.

fawker
Feb 1, 2008

ARMBAR!

Lone Goat posted:

I know that watching fights is passe, but this is exactly what happened in Edgar/Maynard 2, with an extra 10-9/9-10 each.

He didn't say impossible, just improbable. Most people after having their asses handed to them in a round never really recover and continue to get their asses beaten.

Lone Goat
Apr 16, 2003

When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.






fawker posted:

He didn't say impossible, just improbable. Most people after having their asses handed to them in a round never really recover and continue to get their asses beaten.

It was a dumb argument and 10-8s can also happen in the last round.

JiveHonky
May 12, 2001

by zen death robot


Grimey Drawer

1st AD posted:

They'll resist change even if they don't have to do poo poo. There was a UFC where either the UFC or one of their sponsors installed a shitload of monitors ringside for the judges to use. Keith Kizer personally disconnected them all.

What the hell, did that really happen? That's amazing.

Bundt Cake
Aug 16, 2003
;(

JiveHonky posted:

What the hell, did that really happen? That's amazing.

http://mmajunkie.com/news/19620/kei...ed-for-show.mma

"I unplugged them all," said Kizer, who spoke to MMAjunkie.com after Saturday's show at The Pearl at the Palms Casino Resort in Las Vegas. "The UFC had no idea why they were there either. I talked to the producer for the [Spike TV broadcast]. He said the [production] company put them there as a favor I guess."

Pneub
Mar 12, 2007

I'M THE DEVIL, AND I WILL WASH OVER THE EARTH AND THE SEAS WILL RUN RED WITH THE BLOOD OF ALL THE SINNERS

I AM REBORN



Am I reading this wrong, or does he expect the judges to look up at the screens above the crowd if they can't see what's going on?

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

Cabana's legal advice?
I'm bourgeoisie.
I... hit the shitty
firemans carry knee.






1st AD posted:

Sanchez/Guida could have also gone that way, but judges are bad.

The worst case would be Stun Gun v Karo. The third round was so terrible by both that online reports were jumping between rating it 10-10, 9-9 or 0-0. Karo got the nod, though his round 2 was very meh compared to Stun Gun's spectacular round 1. Of course this fight lead to the discovery of Karo's painkiller addiction so silver lining, but it was the clearest case of a draw due to a round of complete inactivity by both from exhaustion.

maffew buildings
Apr 29, 2009

I'm too dumb to get probated


Thermos H Christ posted:

Master Thonglor is the flamboyant Muay Thai coach for Team Alpha Male, a fight team composed entirely of tiny So-Cal bros.

NOR CAL BROS, DAMMIT

CRISPYBABY
Dec 15, 2007

by Reene


Pneub posted:

Am I reading this wrong, or does he expect the judges to look up at the screens above the crowd if they can't see what's going on?

He thinks looking through the cage at the fight from ringside is more impartial than screens with multiple angles. Yes, he's not very smart.

BlindSite
Feb 8, 2009



Lid posted:

The worst case would be Stun Gun v Karo. The third round was so terrible by both that online reports were jumping between rating it 10-10, 9-9 or 0-0. Karo got the nod, though his round 2 was very meh compared to Stun Gun's spectacular round 1. Of course this fight lead to the discovery of Karo's painkiller addiction so silver lining, but it was the clearest case of a draw due to a round of complete inactivity by both from exhaustion.

Stun gun's an interesting name for him since it's like he's been hit with one, 2 mins into any of the last two rounds.

niethan
Nov 22, 2005

Don't be scared, homie!


Lone Goat posted:

It was a dumb argument and 10-8s can also happen in the last round.

It is less probable for me to dominate a dude 10-8 after just having been outworked with two 9-10.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



niethan posted:

It is less probable for me to dominate a dude 10-8 after just having been outworked with two 9-10.

You made it sound like it's really unlikely, but there's no need to color it so.
R1: 1 barely outjabs 2
R2: 1 barely outjabs 2
R3: 2 finally lands haymaker and knocks down 2, finishes with very strong GNP

10-9 rounds can be very close and very uneventful (aka no damage) for both fighters.

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Foul Fowl
Sep 12, 2008

Like a snail that melteth away into slime, they shall be taken away; like a dead-born child, they shall not see the sun.

niethan posted:

It is less probable for me to dominate a dude 10-8 after just having been outworked with two 9-10.

Condit vs. MacDonald was exactly this. Two rounds of MacDonald controlling the striking and grappling before Condit took him down in the third and pounded the poo poo out of him on the ground. Granted the ref stopped the fight with like ten seconds to go but if he hadn't it would've been a clear cut 28-28, although I think at least two of the judges didn't score the last round 10-8 meaning it would've been a split for MacDonald.

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