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Seltzer
Oct 11, 2012

lego ass bitch

Valeyard posted:

I am playing through the latest UFC game just now.

It's way easier to get someone into a submission immediately after THEY take me down to the ground with a shoot - is this how it actually works in real life?

I take it you mean they're on top? Then no, unless someone really fucks up and gives up their neck for a guillotine while completing a takedown. Fighters like to be on top unless they are extremely unskilled there/their opponent has good BJJ on their back.

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Dangersim
Sep 4, 2011

He expended too much energy and got tired

I'M NOT SURPRISED MOTHERFUCKERS


Many submissions are hit in scrambles when people don't really have their position solid yet.

Duzzy Funlop
Jan 13, 2010


We real cool. We
Left school. We

Lurk late. We
Strike straight. We

Sing sin. We
Thin gin. We

Jazz June. We
Die soon.


doverhog posted:

There are a lot fights that have ended with someone diving into a guillotine or something like that, so sometimes yeah.

People diving head first into guillotines was basically the entirety of Cody McKenzie's stint on TUF and I loved it.

Valeyard
Mar 30, 2012




Grimey Drawer

Seltzer posted:

I take it you mean they're on top? Then no, unless someone really fucks up and gives up their neck for a guillotine while completing a takedown. Fighters like to be on top unless they are extremely unskilled there/their opponent has good BJJ on their back.

Yeah on top, it sounds like:


Dangersim posted:

Many submissions are hit in scrambles when people don't really have their position solid yet.

this. There is maybe a 2 second (max) window after they take me down where I can attempt a submission before they get their position right and start pounding my face

On the flip side, it is a complete nightmare trying to get them into a position for submission when I take them down myself

BlindSite
Feb 8, 2009



The other really common way they come about is to rock someone with a punch or head kick and then jump on someone. Faber does this quite a lot, Tito did it to Bader as well.

Grifter
Jul 24, 2003

I do this technique called a suplex. You probably haven't heard of it, it's pretty obscure.

Is Hendricks still with Team Takedown? I'm wondering if that whole effort might have paid for itself pretty much solely through him.

1st AD
Dec 3, 2004

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu: sometimes passing just isn't an option.


Pretty sure he's the only one making that a break even venture, unless Jared Rosholt is making tons of secret money.

Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down



Valeyard posted:

Yeah on top, it sounds like:


this. There is maybe a 2 second (max) window after they take me down where I can attempt a submission before they get their position right and start pounding my face

On the flip side, it is a complete nightmare trying to get them into a position for submission when I take them down myself

Yeah, even in straightforward grappling you have to destabilize your opponent somehow to execute your finishing move. Everything leading up to the moment of the submission is where you win the fight, really. Finding those moments and making them count is beautiful and fuckin' really hard too.

Love watching old Pancrase matches that weren't works (hey there are a bunch ok) and seeing the really active, frantic scrambling of the Shoot wrestling circuit guys - none of them really had much of a game on their back, but rather than develop one, they basically just got amazingly good at applying constant, wicked pressure from the top and moving around like crazy so they won't end up there. Modern grapplers are way, way more complete, and that was a very risky fighting style, but it was fun to watch.

Agreed fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Jan 4, 2015

Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013



Agreed posted:

Yeah, even in straightforward grappling you have to destabilize your opponent somehow to execute your finishing move. Everything leading up to the moment of the submission is where you win the fight, really. Finding those moments and making them count is beautiful and fuckin' really hard too.

Love watching old Pancrase matches that weren't works (hey there are a bunch ok) and seeing the really active, frantic scrambling of the Shoot wrestling circuit guys - none of them really had much of a game on their back, but rather than develop one, they basically just got amazingly good at applying constant, wicked pressure from the top and moving around like crazy so they won't end up there. Modern grapplers are way, way more complete, and that was a very risky fighting style, but it was fun to watch.

Pancrase started as being largely worked, but became (as far as I know) as legit as other MMA orgs as time went on.

Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down



Count Roland posted:

Pancrase started as being largely worked, but became (as far as I know) as legit as other MMA orgs as time went on.

It did for most intents and purposes, though even the legit fights later make it a little hard to tell what might happen in a real fight thanks to the sometimes head-scratching rules. But, the Shooto guys (especially RINGS promotion vets) who got it started were pretty heavily into worked Pancrase fights. Not all the time, and very clearly not to every fighter, but a lot of the pre-1996 matches especially have some of the most amazing, unlikely, too-smooth submissions in wrestling. But even in the non worked fights they definitely had a spectacular style, though striking on the ground and a better ground game in general prevented a lot of their top pressure from being as effective in other promotions.

I have to be honest, though, I am still not sure if Ken Shamrock is full of poo poo about some of his claims. He wasn't really exceptionally skilled or anything, just way huge and swift, with good balance. Enough to control most of the fighters in the promotion, but he looks like he legit lost at least one of his supposed worked fights. And he never was that convincing in the WWF.

bartok
May 10, 2006

hey!
hey!
it's me kane!
hello!


So what was the deal with Butterbean? Every match I've seen he is facing some guy he easily outweighs by a 100 lbs. and just beating the poo poo out of them in a clear mismatch. Was he more or less just a bigass Tough Guy contest winner that they used as a novelty for Boxing undercards?

Fat Twitter Man
Jan 24, 2007

by R. Guyovich


bartok posted:

So what was the deal with Butterbean? Every match I've seen he is facing some guy he easily outweighs by a 100 lbs. and just beating the poo poo out of them in a clear mismatch. Was he more or less just a bigass Tough Guy contest winner that they used as a novelty for Boxing undercards?

yes

Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down



Once upon a time MMA had more "higher profile" freakshow fights. My favorite is...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h-aYDvUIto

just because, what the hell was anyone thinking. It's a clinic on how to expertly beat the poo poo out of a fat guy.

"This is dangerous. I don't know if it could be... Real smart... To be this big, and fighting. This is dangerous!"

"He's probably the largest athlete ever to compete in sports, in ANY event, in the history of the earth, that I know about..."

Agreed fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jan 28, 2015

Schenck v. U.S.
Sep 8, 2010


bartok posted:

So what was the deal with Butterbean? Every match I've seen he is facing some guy he easily outweighs by a 100 lbs. and just beating the poo poo out of them in a clear mismatch. Was he more or less just a bigass Tough Guy contest winner that they used as a novelty for Boxing undercards?

It's even better than that, he actually made his living barnstorming, meaning that he traveled around the country beating the poo poo out of random local fighters for small amounts of money. As in, he literally was a traveling freakshow, except he was a fat boxer instead of a hairy carny pretending to be a wolfman. I would give him a small amount of credit as a hitter, because he can punch pretty hard, but as far as all the other stuff you have to do to be a boxer... yeah he doesn't do those.

Here's a clip of him getting a fookin' boxin' lesson from Larry Holmes in 2002 (!). Holmes is approximately 2 million years old, obese, and has no legs at all:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT7LbFnpVz4
Butterbean manages to land some in the first round but he basically gets boxed up by a fossil who was heavyweight champ in the '80s.

Gregor Samsa
Sep 5, 2007
Nietzsche's Mustache

EvanSchenck posted:

It's even better than that, he actually made his living barnstorming, meaning that he traveled around the country beating the poo poo out of random local fighters for small amounts of money. As in, he literally was a traveling freakshow, except he was a fat boxer instead of a hairy carny pretending to be a wolfman. I would give him a small amount of credit as a hitter, because he can punch pretty hard, but as far as all the other stuff you have to do to be a boxer... yeah he doesn't do those.

Here's a clip of him getting a fookin' boxin' lesson from Larry Holmes in 2002 (!). Holmes is approximately 2 million years old, obese, and has no legs at all:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT7LbFnpVz4
Butterbean manages to land some in the first round but he basically gets boxed up by a fossil who was heavyweight champ in the '80s.

1. How the gently caress did i not know this had happened
2. Even at fifty-fat years old, Holmes's jab looks extremely unpleasant.

Sweaty IT Nerd
Jul 13, 2007

Oh, pretty, pretty, Blue Bongo!
Bongo-Bongo Blue!! Yah!


Buglord

For the love of all that is good and decent do not watch that fight.



I'm just going to go ahead and assume that's water.


Gregor Samsa posted:

2. Even at fifty-fat years old, Holmes's jab looks extremely unpleasant.

He landed some pretty stiff ones!

Marching Powder
Mar 8, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!


Gregor Samsa posted:

1. How the gently caress did i not know this had happened
2. Even at fifty-fat years old, Holmes's jab looks extremely unpleasant.

Dangersim
Sep 4, 2011

He expended too much energy and got tired

I'M NOT SURPRISED MOTHERFUCKERS


Gregor Samsa posted:

How the gently caress did i not know this had happened

Schenck v. U.S.
Sep 8, 2010


Gregor Samsa posted:

1. How the gently caress did i not know this had happened

Neurologically, the human brain doesn't just absorb information, it also disregards and deletes information that makes no sense or would work against your survival. You might have heard that in 2002 a 52 year-old Larry Holmes fought Butterbean, you might even have watched the fight, but your brain would've said "NOPE" and chucked that memory in the garbage. Your brain was trying to protect you.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"



So badly want to say something clever but this accurately describes so much of my life it hurts.

Bundt Cake
Aug 16, 2003
;(

EvanSchenck posted:

Neurologically, the human brain doesn't just absorb information, it also disregards and deletes information that makes no sense or would work against your survival. You might have heard that in 2002 a 52 year-old Larry Holmes fought Butterbean, you might even have watched the fight, but your brain would've said "NOPE" and chucked that memory in the garbage. Your brain was trying to protect you.

My brains the best woman Ive ever had

02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004



Genki Sudo vs Butterbean was pretty loving good.

Smoking Crow
Feb 13, 2012

*laughs at u*


Agreed posted:

Once upon a time MMA had more "higher profile" freakshow fights. My favorite is...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h-aYDvUIto

just because, what the hell was anyone thinking. It's a clinic on how to expertly beat the poo poo out of a fat guy.

"This is dangerous. I don't know if it could be... Real smart... To be this big, and fighting. This is dangerous!"

"He's probably the largest athlete ever to compete in sports, in ANY event, in the history of the earth, that I know about..."

i saw the thumbnail and thought "i didn't know abdullah fought mma" haha

Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013



02-6611-0142-1 posted:

Genki Sudo vs Butterbean was pretty loving good.

There were jumping kicks, I can confirm this.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


02-6611-0142-1 posted:

Genki Sudo was pretty loving good.

There you go.

projecthalaxy
Dec 27, 2008

Yes hello it is I Kurt's Secret Son


Is Fedor's (or his camp's, whatever) excuse of "I couldn't beat Bigfoot Silva because a powerful warlock was at ringside, draining my chi" the best excuse in MMA history? I know Brazilians are famed for their excuses, but that's tough to beat.

david carmichael
Oct 28, 2011


projecthalaxy posted:

Is Fedor's (or his camp's, whatever) excuse of "I couldn't beat Bigfoot Silva because a powerful warlock was at ringside, draining my chi" the best excuse in MMA history? I know Brazilians are famed for their excuses, but that's tough to beat.

nick diaz missed weight by like 10 pounds because he went swimming in the ocean, jds lost to cain because he hated his wife, nog lost to someone because he had to fly coach, etc.

projecthalaxy
Dec 27, 2008

Yes hello it is I Kurt's Secret Son


david carmichael posted:

jds lost to cain because he hated his wife,

OK this one might be my new favorite.

Foul Fowl
Sep 12, 2008

Like a snail that melteth away into slime, they shall be taken away; like a dead-born child, they shall not see the sun.

diego lost to myles jury because he ate a bad quail egg and also ricardo arona's entire career

Yuriy
Dec 25, 2006

Pay no attention to me, for I am a stupid cunt.

Foul Fowl posted:

diego lost to myles jury because he ate a bad quail egg and also ricardo arona's entire career

bad steak tartare with a bad quail egg

the culprit is unknown and yet the only real surprise is that diego knew what those things were when he ordered them

Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013



Foul Fowl posted:

diego lost to myles jury because he ate a bad quail egg

gently caress that was funny.

Gregor Samsa
Sep 5, 2007
Nietzsche's Mustache

projecthalaxy posted:

OK this one might be my new favorite.

It's not even clear he hated her, he just determined he didn't want to gently caress her any more.

Yuriy
Dec 25, 2006

Pay no attention to me, for I am a stupid cunt.

Gregor Samsa posted:

It's not even clear he hated her, he just determined he didn't want to gently caress her any more.



Can't judge a man till you've walked a mile in his shoes

red19fire
May 26, 2010



There was that one Brazilian that said he lost because he got into a car accident 2 weeks before the fight but didn't tell anyone. Or did he fail a drug test because of a car accident? Something weak as poo poo.

It's really interesting how high level fighters make excuses for failure.

Grandmaster.flv
Jun 24, 2011


I think Rothwell said he had to take TRT due to a car accident he was in years prior

david carmichael
Oct 28, 2011


origami posted:

I think Rothwell said he had to take TRT due to a car accident he was in years prior

He claimed that the car accident severed his balls in 1999, that he was otherwise uninjured, he had kids in the interim and that the ball failure didn't really kick in until like 2008. But its cool because he had a doctors note. And then it turned out he didn't have a doctors note

Dangersim
Sep 4, 2011

He expended too much energy and got tired

I'M NOT SURPRISED MOTHERFUCKERS


I still like Arona getting knocked out by Soccerjew because he caught dengue fever in the rainforest.

2 fat 4 my lambo
Oct 9, 2003

WEED POOP

Charles Gnarwin
Jul 31, 2014

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.

he knows...




Tito's cracked skull is a next level injury excuse.

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BlindSite
Feb 8, 2009



Yuriy posted:

bad steak tartare with a bad quail egg

the culprit is unknown and yet the only real surprise is that diego knew what those things were when he ordered them

I still like the fact he was dumb enough to order raw meat and eggs for dinner after being on a strict diet and weight cutting regime for the weeks prior. Even if the ingredients were fresh it wouldn't be my first choice.

It's up there with Chris Leben eating a hundred dollars worth of candy after his weight cut and getting gastro from it before the Stann fight.

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